Arsenal Thread

Bob,

I don`t know about us dominating bit it was mutd who ended our 50th win :LOL: but I follow what your getting at. The thing is we don`t know if Mancity will dominate or Liverpool or Manutd again.
One thing for sure Mourinho did it on his 1st year arrival. Where Manacini had a full season 1/2 to do. Fergie adopted the win it w/ kids I believe and those kids stayed. Our kids seem to grow and go ... We our living in different times and like some in here said Wenger is just a responsible bloke and his integrity is still intact. I was watching the mutd vs Arsenal again (DVR) and we played good no shame in that. Manutd had to play verse our weakness and Alumina did fairly well in respect ,but We see the difference in a world class keeper even w/ age he is a bottle of wine "prestigious performance" .


We aren`t skint! just unlucky...like what Drekkard said a page back. Every club has squad players it just seem most of them improve while a few of our stay the same. It`s cheaper to keep them I suppose . I think Wenger needs to remove the "30 1 yr extended contract bit" It should be a guideline not the rule ,but the exception .
 
The Man united thing, they still would beat us, but they couldn't match us football wise at the time. We lost, on the 50th game thing, because of a dive by rooney :DD. They would kick us about, alot of the time they couldnt handle us, Van Nistlerooy being a sly little so and so, because that is what he had to resort to. That is still the difference between us and Man United is that they adapt and we haven't over the last few years and we need to. That is why Man united and Ferguson have been so dominant.

The point I was getting at was that we had United on the ropes at that time, we were on the ascendency and getting stronger.

The titles Cheslea won, I think we could have been in their place at the time. Again it is all ifs and buts and the chelsea thing really rocked us and we couldn't compete properly.

Anyway I'm just saying it isn't black and white. we don't win for six years so Wenger should go? We have done stuff since then and we are building for the future, this should also be recognised by alot of fans. There is alot of grey areas that need to be factored in.
 
I don't think French players are the problem with this club. I didn't mind having Pires, Henry and Vieira back then. What bothers me is having mediocre players, regardless of nationality.
Also, it's not because I'm Brazilian that I'd spare Denilson. He clearly doesn't have what it takes.

So, injury update is: Djourou out for the rest of the season. Most likely he will need surgery on that shoulder.

Up until now we survived without Vermaelen, with only 3 CBs. But right now we can count only on Squilaci and Koscielny. Now would be a great time for Thomas Vermaelen to return.

These injury problems we've been facing every season. This is far beyond ridiculous. Nothing has been done and it seems no one is looking into it.
I don't have anything else to say about that...
 
Alot is said about our injuries.

but our most injury prone players are Van Persie, who i think has had a different injury every time he has been injured. It is not the same thing everytime.

Rosicky who was out for an age, that couldn't be fixed for years.

Diaby who had a really really bad injury from a bad challenge, that keeps giving him niggly inuries.

Ramsey where his leg snapped. Eduardo with the same.

Also everytime a player is out significantly they always go out to specialists all around the world to get treatment.

So Although I think there is a bit of a problem, how can it be that all the blame goes to our medical team?

Injuries like Djourou cant be foreseen.

Vermaelen must have gone to lots of specialist that cost ridiculous amounts of money, he just isn't getting better anytime soon?

I just don't buy that our medical team is shit. I really do think we are just unlucky.

The only thing I can think with the lots of niggly injuries is the training etc which may need to be looked into. But Arsene said he looked into this and the medical team a while ago.

What purpose would it serve to Arsene and Arsenal not to look into this problem? it is obviously a huge problem and is costing us. So to suggest Arsene is just ignoring it is silly.

I think they have looked into it, but there is just no explanation.

The only thing I can suggest is to not buy injury prone players. But most of the players we had that were/are injury prone were not before they got to us.

Its very tricky.
 
Van der Voort, don't you think it's time to stop moaning about a match your team has won. Frankly you are a nuisance (and this is coming from a Spurs fan...).

I have nothing against French players and certainly Viera, Henry and Pires were great for Arsenal. I also think Nasri is on the verge of becoming one of the best players in the world. I do wonder if Arsene doesn't rely too much on French players.
 
I still feel wenger should go. just because he was great 7 years ago, doesnt give him the god given right to not deliver any single trophy for the past 6 years.

We have been poor and have shown no signs of improvement from 6 years ago. Dont let the premiership table fool you.

Man united have been shit away at home, chelsea have gone backwards at an alarming rate and that is why we are in the position we are in now as united and chelsea are not as strong as they was in past seasons.

ARsenal have gotten worse for these reasons, 4-5-1, more defensive, we've got a team built of strikers and central attacking midfielders, we dropped a striker and have moved Theo, Bendtner, Nasri, Rosicky, Arshavin all out onto the wings, none of them are great on the wing, we lost great CB's and Wenger keeps trying to replace them on the cheap we've got a dodgey right back who consistantly makes huge errors, and he's still in the team, then the mentality, Wengers basically just turned into a loser, that we'll attack them and we'll win mentality has been changed for, "well you're rubbish, but we need another body in midfield because I don't think we're good enough to just attack them" mentality, the club reeks of this. Every big performance its the same story, the same few players saying they'll learn, Wenger saying we'll bounce back and this consistant "we'll win something this year, probably" excuse after we lose.

A thing about wenger is that he consistantly gets EVERY SINGLE BIG DECISION WRONG. Sorry but if your manager gets every single major decision wrong which also leads to losing every important game of the season, who exactly should be held responsible?

Diaby was by far and away the worst player against Barca last season, he played exactly the same completely lazy and useless role this year, starting him was a monumental mistake, you don't go to Barca and play 9vs 11 intentionally......... unless you're Wenger.

The fact is great managers can get worse and become useless, and crap managers can become great managers, etc, etc, Wengers early success has no bearing, at all, on his current ability. His becoming shit and he should go period before liverpool overtake us, nevermind city, spurs and chelsea
 
Jonney, sacking Wenger is no option.

Not in the long term because he has the second best record in England.
Not in the short term because Arsenal can still become champions. You don't sack a manager who brings you year after year in championship winning positions.

Why sack Wenger? Because Arsenal lost against Barcelona? Every single English team would loose against this Barcelona side. Inter's win last year was almost a freak win.

They lost in the FA Cup against man Utd...well wether we like it or not, man Utd are the best team for the last 20 years.

On top of that Arsenal have a new stadium, this was a major investment and despite that the club still is financially sound and safe. That is a feature that even Man Utd weren't capable of...

While i agree with you on some points (Arsenal does not seem capable of making that last step to silverware), i still thin you gotta see the whole picture: results, finances, accomodation. If you look at that picture, Arsenal is the most succesfull English club.
 
I don't honestly see a good solution for Arsenal. I believe that next season Chelsea, Man City, Tottenham and Liverpool are all going to spend quite heavily. And skint as they are, United will have to as well. So the quality of the 5 teams around them will rise, while I just don't see them getting any better with team and ethos they have.

Their (and United's) league position is inflated because of the mediocrity of top teams this season. Points wise it's no better than a 3rd/4th place team at this stage of the season.

That said, Arsenal fans have to realise that Wenger is the reason that Arsenal exists in its current form. Nasri, Van Persie, Arshavin etc would not just randomly join an English club if not for him. They would, as they could have, go to top European sides instead. The very DNA of what Arsenal are today is Wenger's.

To start again would be catastrophic. It's a real issue and I don't offer any great answer. But sacking Arsene is the worst thing that could happen.
 
VanderVoort said:
Alves has one black-eye because van pussy. He should have been send off before.
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Black eye for that?! You are having a laugh!! Hardly touched him... and no I'm not an Arsenal fan before you say anything. I follow Barca but Alves going down for that was laughable.
 
If you got rid of him you would be crying to have him back in a few months time. The man made Arsenal a cracking team to watch. Stick with him and with a few more players, you should dominate for years.

jonneymendoza said:
I still feel wenger should go. just because he was great 7 years ago, doesnt give him the god given right to not deliver any single trophy for the past 6 years.

We have been poor and have shown no signs of improvement from 6 years ago. Dont let the premiership table fool you.

Man united have been shit away at home, chelsea have gone backwards at an alarming rate and that is why we are in the position we are in now as united and chelsea are not as strong as they was in past seasons.

ARsenal have gotten worse for these reasons, 4-5-1, more defensive, we've got a team built of strikers and central attacking midfielders, we dropped a striker and have moved Theo, Bendtner, Nasri, Rosicky, Arshavin all out onto the wings, none of them are great on the wing, we lost great CB's and Wenger keeps trying to replace them on the cheap we've got a dodgey right back who consistantly makes huge errors, and he's still in the team, then the mentality, Wengers basically just turned into a loser, that we'll attack them and we'll win mentality has been changed for, "well you're rubbish, but we need another body in midfield because I don't think we're good enough to just attack them" mentality, the club reeks of this. Every big performance its the same story, the same few players saying they'll learn, Wenger saying we'll bounce back and this consistant "we'll win something this year, probably" excuse after we lose.

A thing about wenger is that he consistantly gets EVERY SINGLE BIG DECISION WRONG. Sorry but if your manager gets every single major decision wrong which also leads to losing every important game of the season, who exactly should be held responsible?

Diaby was by far and away the worst player against Barca last season, he played exactly the same completely lazy and useless role this year, starting him was a monumental mistake, you don't go to Barca and play 9vs 11 intentionally......... unless you're Wenger.

The fact is great managers can get worse and become useless, and crap managers can become great managers, etc, etc, Wengers early success has no bearing, at all, on his current ability. His becoming shit and he should go period before liverpool overtake us, nevermind city, spurs and chelsea
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beachryan said:
I don't honestly see a good solution for Arsenal. I believe that next season Chelsea, Man City, Tottenham and Liverpool are all going to spend quite heavily. And skint as they are, United will have to as well. So the quality of the 5 teams around them will rise, while I just don't see them getting any better with team and ethos they have.

Their (and United's) league position is inflated because of the mediocrity of top teams this season. Points wise it's no better than a 3rd/4th place team at this stage of the season.
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I absolutely don't agree with that...who says that heavy spending teams are necessarily better teams?
Spurs are spending more than Arsenal for ages and they have never been better than Arsenal, the same goes for Man City...
 
Wages > Transfer fee. In this regard Tottenham won't be splashing the cash cause they can't afford top player wages like Arsenal or United. City are already "their".

Arsenal remind me of us JUST prior to Queiroz when we had good defenders but the organization of the back 4 was pretty poor and he came and solidified that back four which created the foundations for the success which followed.
 
Gerd, I think Wenger resources to French players more because of a practical reason rather than a preference. Among Premier League managers, he has better knowledge of Ligue 1 and its lower divisions. Also, his scouts are able to get the best bargains especially with African players from former French colonies. As happened with Kolo Touré, who was signed on the cheap. This comes in handy when a team has little cash, like Arsenal when building the stadium.

But I find disturbing how he insists on players like Diaby. It would be better to admit he's wrong about something than trying to prove a point.

I agree with Jonney when it comes to Wenger fielding Diaby against Barcelona. He saw last year how poor he was against them. He's really sluggish, and Barca play very high tempo on and off the ball.

However I disagree completely about Sagna. Dodgy right back? I think he's a real gem! He has lots of things to improve, but sill, IMO he's a lot better than Lauren, from the "Invincibles".
 
jonneymendoza said:
ARsenal have gotten worse for these reasons, 4-5-1, more defensive, we've got a team built of strikers and central attacking midfielders, we dropped a striker and have moved Theo, Bendtner, Nasri, Rosicky, Arshavin all out onto the wings, none of them are great on the wing, we lost great CB's and Wenger keeps trying to replace them on the cheap we've got a dodgey right back who consistantly makes huge errors, and he's still in the team, then the mentality, Wengers basically just turned into a loser, that we'll attack them and we'll win mentality has been changed for, "well you're rubbish, but we need another body in midfield because I don't think we're good enough to just attack them" mentality, the club reeks of this. Every big performance its the same story, the same few players saying they'll learn, Wenger saying we'll bounce back and this consistant "we'll win something this year, probably" excuse after we lose.
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really quite amazed by this bit in your post.

To say we have gone more defensive is far from correct imo. It may be a 4-5-1 but it changes throughout and changes into more of a 4-3-3 with Arshavin and Walcott pushing up, so we have more or less three forwards attacking.

If you don't think we are attacking teams, then I think you are really watching a different team?

defenders wise, he has been held to ransom for alot of good defenders I agree alot with him with some of the ridiculous prices people were asking for good defenders. The world class ones don't want to move. Vermaelen, Djourou and Koscielny are all very good Defenders in my opinion and if we can have any of those two playing together for a long period of time then I think they will come good. My bet would be Djourou and Vermaelen with Koscielny and another as backup/rotation.

To say Sagna is shit aswell is ridiculous, he is probably one of our most reliable players an unsung hero in the team. If anybody in defence is playing shit at the moment it is Clichy who alot of the time looks like he has forgotten how to defend and keeps attacking players onside all of the time.

I agree with the end bit about the learning for next time etc. As we never seem to do, that is extremely frustrating.

Our problem at the moment is concentration and defending, we can dominate games, but when a team attacks, we lose concentration and we allow them to have easy chances.

I also think Wenger had every reason to trust in our youngsters for so long, they all showed outstanding promise. Our record in the League cup over the years and another great run in the FA cup with youngsters was enough to give alot of hope. It was a gamble and one I think he has realised hasn't paid off. I can see at least denilson fucking off and him replacing a few others in the summer. But I don't blame Wenger for keeping faith in the youngsters. This faith is one of the reasons we got Walcott and Ramsey and why Wilshere is doing so well at the moment. Why also alot of young top talent would prefer to come to us than another club, because they know they will get games and progress. That is invaluable for the future of our club.

Anyway, we will never agree :DD
 
BobbyBox said:
To say Sagna is shit aswell is ridiculous, he is probably one of our most reliable players an unsung hero in the team. If anybody in defence is playing shit at the moment it is Clichy who alot of the time looks like he has forgotten how to defend and keeps attacking players onside all of the time.
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I disagree about the Sagna bit as well, he has improved much over the past years defensively and offensively. One example that comes to mind is his crossing. Sagna is still a woeful crosser of the ball, but he is trying to place them these days (see United game). This season you see Sagna tracking back as well and attacking more conservatively. I remember a few of his last ditch tackles in this season alone, and I do think Sagna is a much better defender because he has improved his overall game.

I'll agree with Bobby, Clichy still appears clueless in defense ALL THE TIME (see Barcelona at Arsenal, David Villa goal).
 
I was also amazed by jonney's assessment about Sagna, i think he's very good both offensive and defensive.
IMO he is defensively maybe Arsenal's most consistent player.
 
Arsenal needs a DAMN leader on the pitch...someone with experience and his not 21 for lords sake. The back four never communicate you can clearly see it troughout a match...couple of words are exchanging but there no real leader. in the midfield its the same, Song is a great DM but he doesnt have that ability to lead at all as hes a quiet shy guy. Fabregas seem to take the lead only when its important...

On the other part I really do think Clinchy need to go next year...I think his best days are behind him as he lost pace and confidence in himself whenever hes involve defensivly you can clearly see that he rely on his instinc instead of his intelligence and knowledge and experience of the game wich is very bad for a defender.
 
I would love to see our full team play a string of games together, I really believe that all of the problems will pretty much not be there. I still maintain it is our periphery players that do not seem to be stepping up, so when we have the injuries, then we suffer greatly. This is one of the reasons I think we are not far off of having a really great team and why Wenger hasn't got it as wrong as everybody is saying.

Clichy will go in the summer I think, he isn't the player he used to be. I think he needs to move and he will be a good player again. He has just lost something at Arsenal. We will sell him in the summer and get a nice bit of money for him.

Lehmann coming back to the Arsenal....well I never :LOL:
 
Even with your best 11 though, the 'leader' problem so many have mentioned and for all the right reasons will still be there and not fixed.

Arsenal have less 'leaders' in their squad than most if not all the teams in the league. Just do a quick assessment of 'personality' checkups of the whole squad. It's scary. It's scary how Wenger has compiled a squad of 24 players or so without having at least one or two experienced leaders in there. At least back in the day, he had the likes of Lehmann, Keown, Adams, Vieira etc. and even your non-captains were hardworking determined experienced players like Dixon, Parlour, Winterburn, Kolo Toure etc. Now you have the talented little Catalan Cesc as your CAPTAIN. It's good for him to be a symbol of the club but he shouldn't be captain simply because he's not captain material. He should be a symbol like Ronaldo was for Utd or Nani is now but those never got the armband and rightly so. I'm sorry but Fabregas although a great player, has never been and never will be a great captain. Or at least he's got a LOT of growing to do in several areas to be a great captain one day. Right now he's far from it. He just doesn't have it. He's not a BAD captain though. I disagree with those who say he is. He's just very average. Arsenal needs a Patrick Vieira, not a Cesc Fabregas as captain and they need a leader in every line.

This is Arsenal's supposedly leader players:

1. Fabregas
2. van Persie
3. Nasri!
4. Almunia!

It's ridiculous. :LOL:
You take the 3rd or 4th vice captain of most teams in the league and you'll find they are more captain material (better 'leaders/organizers', influential/determined/team player, etc. )than the first captain of Arsenal! And far better than Arsenal's 2nd and 3rd or 4th choice which are even worse.

EDIT: Just to clarify my position on this though, let's not get this confused, for me, Cesc SHOULD be the CURRENT captain of Arsenal with THIS squad simply because there are no better options at the moment. But in reality, he shouldn't be captain, no way! A much more balanced team would have at least 3 more suitable candidates for that role than him. But for now, he's actually the best choice among a list of crap choices.
 
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As harsh as it looks/sounds PLF there`s no denying it . I remember Lemon pushing n yelling at his backs. He terrorize his team mates :LOL:

Everybody seem too relax almost no one dares to bring conflict or you`re ship out. I bet everyone has their personnel assistant-assistant-co-assistant like some sort of administration. it was rumored that Wenger doesn`t have control of the star players. Not sure how that is even possible he is not Phil Jackson handing out books to read n telling them to take yoga.
 
I'm not so sure I think Song and Vermaelen can step up to the support leader role :DD I still want Cesc as the overall captain role (if he is here next season :((). He leads by example more than anything else.

Sagna.....vermaelen.....Djourou.......Gibbs

.........Song.............Wilshere.........
................Fab.......................
Walcott.........................Arshavin
..............Van Persie..................

Putting Nasri also in there where necessary. Replacing Arshavin, or moving Wilshere next to Fab and also swapping Nasri and Wilshere.

Szczesny has been great but I think we need another Keeper maybe an older really good one and keep Szczesny put him on every now and again for a year or so, as he is still very young.

Proper back up for Song (which we have all been crying out for).

another top quality attacking forward/Winger to go on the left as Arshavin looks like he is waining.

Sell Diaby, clichy and Denilson and Schillaci. Should bring in quite a bit of money, maybe Bendtner aswell, but I still have a soft spot for him :))

Koscielny was a good buy in my opinion and would be great backup/rotation. With Miguel aswell who looks promising we may need another experienced defender as backup.

I just want to see that team above play for 10 consecutive games, I bet we would be very good indeed.

Anyway I think our first team could beat anybody and I think with that team on the pitch Fab can be the captain and other players like Song, Vermaelen, Wilshere and Van Persie can rally the team together and get them going. but I am probably in the minority :DD
 
Sounds to me like you don't take the whole 'leadership' thing seriously enough Bobby. But you're more than welcomed to your opinion of course and I respect that. I just don't agree. I think what I said above about the whole 'lack of leaders' is a far BIGGER deal than you think of it and no I don't thing likes of Song can do it. Vermaelen I have more faith in and yes he was captain at Ajax but even then, he's not a natural captain for me.

Arsenal badly needs a van Bommel, a Vieira, that type of player and to be honest MORE than one. They need one of that 'type' in each line, instead you're left with likes of van Persie and Cesc and Almunia and Nasri as leaders of the team which is to be honest a joke! These guys would never get the armband in any other team! They're top players, but certainly not captain material.
 
Vermaelen is a natural born leader PLF...he was captain with Ajax, he is captain of the Belgian national team.
I still think Arsenal fans overrate Vermaelen as a defender (he still has a lot to learn and has earned tons of goodwill by scoring quite a few goals when he was first with Arsenal) but there is no denying that he has everything to become the leader of this Arsenal team. That is if he ever will be injury free again.

I really like Song, but Arsenal need a cynical player besides him...there must be loads of players like that around the world, but since i know Belgian players best i will mention to Belgian players that could fit in: Jan Vertonghen (as a DMF, he is now playing as CB for Ajax) and Steven Defour. On top of that Defour is an even bigger leader than Vermaelen...

But like i already said, there must be dozens of other players who can fill in this role...
I have the feeling that Wenger does not want this type of player for whatever reason...
 
Nah... can't agree. for me, he's not a natural born leader. He's simply not vocal enough and although very mature and experienced for a young defender, he's still learning the trade himself and has a lot to learn. He can get a lot better in my opinion both as a defender and as a leader. I don't think Arsenal fans or the world has seen the best of Thomas yet. He hasn't fulfilled potential yet.
The fact that he was captain of Ajax so early on said more about that Ajax squad and departure of experienced players than his leadership ability. And the Belgian squad like Ajax is full of youngsters. For me he's not the perfect captain or a natural leader, he's just the best of the bunch because others are even worse candidates. Many are young... many unprofessional.. many just broke through... he's the best pick out of them.
And those are two teams full of youngsters. Of course I'd rather have someone like Vermaelen as captain than likes of Hazard or the many young kids coming through Ajax every year. But a natural leader, a great captain is someone like John Terry for me. Vermaelen is far from that but is actually one of the best choices in Arsenal team so I wouldn't mind seeing him as captain but that wouldn't solve the problems.

And yeah I agree with you, Wenger in general doesn't seem to be a fan of 'dirty' players or even 'leader types' for that matter. He's had a few of them over the years but much less than most managers.
 
PLF, not that it really matters, but Vermaelen is captain of a Belgian team that also includes Van Buyten and Simons (and Simons definitely is a natural born leader...).

But of course this discussion is not that important...i'm sorry if i insist.
 
PLF said:
Sounds to me like you don't take the whole 'leadership' thing seriously enough Bobby. But you're more than welcomed to your opinion of course and I respect that. I just don't agree. I think what I said above about the whole 'lack of leaders' is a far BIGGER deal than you think of it and no I don't thing likes of Song can do it. Vermaelen I have more faith in and yes he was captain at Ajax but even then, he's not a natural captain for me.

Arsenal badly needs a van Bommel, a Vieira, that type of player and to be honest MORE than one. They need one of that 'type' in each line, instead you're left with likes of van Persie and Cesc and Almunia and Nasri as leaders of the team which is to be honest a joke! These guys would never get the armband in any other team! They're top players, but certainly not captain material.
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I take it seriously, but I just think Fabregas is a good leader and some others on the team.

From your posts it sounds like you are refering to more of an aggressive player, who will go in hard. Which I do not agree necesarilly agree makes a good leader all round. But I do agree we need a player like that again.

I'm just of the opinion that Fab is a great leader/captain and players like Vermaelen, Song and Van Persie can also spur a team forward and encourage the players to dig deep in tough situations. Just because Van Persie lost it in the Barca game, doesn't write him off for ever as a crap leader?

Anyway, The last two weeks were probably my lowest supporting Arsenal for a good long while, so hopefully things can only get better :DD
 
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