LOL! every summer the same story
Edmundo said:
Rules are rules and contracts are contracts, it might be different in Catalonia, but the rule of commercial law generally prevails in these matters in the UK.
Barca might have a policy of underpaying other clubs in Spain, but why would Arsenal sell him below market rate ? If Downing cost £20M then Arsenal can demand double that for Fabregas, who is significantly younger but also has a lot more top level (CL, World Cup, Euros) experience and is clearly a better player. Maybe Liverpool over-paid for Downing, but prices are set by the market and if teams are overpaying for PL players then their price will go up accordingly.
oh come on mate, u know better than that! i really don't understand why u guys have to turn this situation into some sort of a moral superiority pageant.
THIS IS ABOUT BUSINESS AND NOT ABOUT FAIRNESS OR MORAL SUPERIORITY! and believe me, if it were about moral superiority, then arsenal would NOT have the upper hand (given how they signed cesc in the first place).
barcelona don't have a policy of underpaying.... they have this quite common habit..... negotiating. we all have this habit infact. what do u do when u go car shopping. u just go to the dealer and pay whatever sum of money he asks? of course not! u will single out every single flaw u see, no matter how irrilevant or stupid... u will start making silly comparisons with other cars in front of the dealer.... u will recurr to whatever trick or cheesy expedient u know to get some leverage. is that fair? NO is that classy? of course not... and it's not supposed to be... because no negotiation is supposed to be fair.
i took used cars as example, but really we all do that everyday. wheter we're buying a house or negotiating a mortgage or signing a contract with a phone company, we always try to hold on to whatever bargaining power we got and we take advantage of it. that's what negotiating is about. i wrote a letter to sky a few weeks ago and announced them my intention to rescind my contract with them. they called me one week after and proposed me a new contract with a 15% discount on the market price. my neighbor didn't do that and now he's paying more than me for exactly the same service... is this fair? no... shoud i feel guilty for "underpaying" (like u said) for this service? hell no. i just took advantage of my bargaining power.
and that's what negotiations are about. and don't be fooled, wether it's a guy signing a phone contract or a millionaire buying a painting or 2 huge companies working on a merger, it makes no difference at all. we all recurr to the same expedients.
so don't picture barcelona as a cheesy club just because they're trying to do what they're supposed to be doing. wich is getting the best possible deal for themselves. that's exactly what arsenal is trying to do. in every negotiation, the seller always tries to oversell while the buyer always try to underpay. and there's absolutely nothing wrong with this. as long as we keep it legal, we're entitled to recurr to every cheesy trick we can, in order to get a good deal and make our own interest (whether we're selling or buying something).
u say "
barca can't complain about fabregas pricetag"..... why? of course they can. they have every right to bitch about the pricetag or to recurr to cheesy tricks like having their players talking about arsenal..... exactly as arsenal has every right to just refuse whatever offer they don't like. no one is pointing a gun at arsenal and forcing them to sell at barca's conditions.... but it's extremely naive (to say the least) to expect barca not negotiating at all and not making their own conditions.
u also referred to a "market rate". u even used downing as a benchmark (and some other people used carrol as a benchmark before). u also mentioned the sanchez deal and the villa deal, trying to establish another benchmark.
let me tell something mate, there are no benchmarks, because there's no such thing as a market rate. and there's no such thing as a market rate because there's no such thing as a market when it comes to football players.
u can talk about a "market" when u're dealing with a certain ammount of FUNGIBLE GOODS. there's a gold market, a oil market, a rubber market.... there's a car market a houses market.
non fungible entities, such as paintings or football players instead have no market at all. u often hear the expression "art market", well that expression is just as unappropriate as "players market". each painting, each sculpture and each football player is absolutely unique, therefore by definition and logic there can't be a market. and therefore for theese entities there can't be a market rate.
and precisely because of this very simple and undenyable fact, the deals that concern theese unique, non fungible "entities" (i know entities is not the most appropriate word, but i just don't feel like calling a player a "good") are regulated by completely different dynamics. and the prices are effected by theese peculiar dynamics.
how many years of contract the club can count on? how many buyers are trying to sign the player? how happy the player is at his current club? how much the player would desire to join the buyer's club? is the player willing to accept another destination? is the player willing to accept a contract renewal when the current one gets close to its expiring date? how badly the buyer's club wants the player? what's the timing of the deal?
theese (and many others) are the factors that come into play in football players negotiation. and they can hugely effect the deals themselves, bringing to absolutely crazy results.
but those results might seem crazy only if u try to explain them using the common rules of a market. and that's the mistake!
the reason why sanchez is about to be sold for such a high pricetag is because there were several clubs trying to buy him. and obviously, since football players are unique, non fungible entities, the more clubs are following a player, the more his pricetag raises.
but implying barca should be offering much more than 35 millions just because this is what they're spending for sanchez makes absolutely no sense. we're talking about 2 completely different deals and there's no way of comparing them (nor the players involved in the deals).
let me make another example. in just about 2 years juventus sold (to palermo) a very good defensive midfielder (nocerino) for 6 million euros and then bought a much worse defensive midfielder (melo) for 25 millions. such a deal wouldn't make any sense if u would apply market's rules and dynamics.... but that's the mistake! u can't apply the common rules and dynamics of a market to players transfer. was the nocerino deal a stupid move by juventus? sure! was it an unfair deal? ABSOLUTELY NOT. palermo didn't point a gun at juve. nocerino's pricetag was the result of an agreement between 2 clubs. juve accepted that offer. therefore the deal was fair by definition.
there might be stupid deals, but there's no such thing as an unfair deal. as long as the clubs reach an agreement the pricetage is fair, no matter how stupidly high (or low) that pricetag is. it's the agreement that makes the pricetag "fair". and that agreement usually comes at the end of a ruthless and absolutely not fair negotiation.
the only "unfair" deal would be a deal reached without an agreement between the 2 clubs involved. that only happens when the player isn't old enough to sign a professional contract (i'm sure u know what i'm talking about).... but then again, in this case, we can't even talk about a "deal", because a deal, by definition, implies an offer and an acceptance. when the club isn't in the position to accept or refuse an offer (because the player can't yet be tied by a contract), then that can't be described as a "deal".
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little side note: before any of u gets on the defensive, i'm not trying to attack or blame arsenal for its "cheesy policies". taking advantage of an unfair (but legal) situation is not unfair. that's infact what business is about.
and before any of u says that, i'm well aware arsenal isn't the only club which "grabs" teenagers from other academies. many other clubs do that. infact barcelona themselves are doing something very similar to what u did with cesc with a young talented espanyol player (i'm saying that just to stress my absolutely neutral position on this subject).
the only reason i brought this thing up is to explain how every "deal" that involves a player under contract is inevitably "fair" by definition
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the factors wich effect this specific negotiation are well known. both clubs have some pretty good leverage.
arsenal can count on a very long contract. they can also count on the classyness of cesc (who isn't officially handing a transfer request). they can count on the fact they don't have any urge to sell. and finally (and that's their best card to play) they can count on the fact that barcelona isn't just looking for any top class creative midfielder. they're specifically after cesc, because of his catalan roots. and this gives the gunners huge leverage.
on the other side arsenal also have a market of "1" (because most likely cesc won't accept any offer other than barcelona's offer). and that hugely effects his pricetag (in a negative way).
moreover barça don't have any particular urge to sign the player (as they proved last summer), so they can keep going on with this negotiation for years. and obviously time is on their side in this negotiation, as cesc value decreases every summer (accordingly to the years left on his contract).
and finally (and this is barcelona's best card) the blaugranas know cesc wants to go to barcelona and won't accept any other destination.
usually when both clubs have so much leverage (as it is in this case) the negotiations are particularly ruthless and "bloody".
and this negotiation indeed is proving to be extremely stressing and ruthless and "not so nice".... but that's just how it should be.
i perfectly understand the frustration u arsenal fans must feel (trust me, being a small club supporter, i've gone though this situation more times than u could possibly imagine). cesc is your captain and arguably your most valuable player..... and obviously if u have to lose him, u at least want to make the most of this sale (from a financial point of view).
but don't blame barcelona for playing their role in this dance. they're trying to get the best deal they can, by whatever (legal) means they can devise..... wich is exactly what u would do....... wich is exactly what u already did several times.
