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Arsenal Thread

I'm trying to be as unbiased as I can and analyse the match for what it was (without letting my hatred for Mourinho cloud my judgement).
I gotta say I still can't see how Chelsea were disadvantaged. Both red card claims are really far-fetched, when in fact the Cahil two-footed lunge was much closer to a straight red (and very similar to that Felipe Melo tackle also on Alexis).

But the other, more shocking event that gets ignored here, is the blatant penalty not given to Arsenal that could have changed the score line - and this I cannot stress enough.

At that stage (0-1), ending the match with the score level could have easily happened.
This time around Chelsea didn't create that many chances thanks to a new approach by Arsenal: don't throw everything you got at them when attacking, and Mourinho won't have his counter attacks. After all, his team can look clueless at times when facing teams who park the bus (as they do themselves), hence the hilarious Sam Allardyce reaction after one goaless draw.

Things were going fine for Arsenal until the Chelsea penalty - and that had to happen through a Hazard individual effort, it has to be said, because Chelsea's collective play wasn't anything special.

To say Arsenal should have had a sending off and totally ignore the penalty not given is to echo Mourinho's words in his post-match interview. And by saying this, I hope I'm making Gerd change his mind a bit, in the hope he doesn't want to share the same opinion with the horrible, horrible cunt that Mourinho is.

Having said that, even with all my vitriol towards Mourinho, Wenger's reaction was something impossible to defend or agree with. It wasn't an act of agression so much as an act of transgression. Maybe he got sick and tired of watching Alexis getting battered or maybe he let Mourinho's words boil his blood. But he shouldn't have done that. He shouldn't even have been there inside Mourinho's area. It doesn't look good. It totally clashes with Wenger's values and the class he is reputed for.

The Fabregas' thing is another matter. I don't agree with the fans reaction. One could try to understand the mindset of fans - and the feeling of hostility toward Cesc harks back to him forcing his transfer to Barcelona in 2011, rather than Wenger's own choice to refuse him this time around. The fact he now plays for Chelsea just rubs salt on the wound. Fan's outrage had been bottled for 3 years because he was playing overseas and now worsened with the fact he now plays for a rival club. Not that I agree with it, but this is surely it.

Now, comparing Fab's case with Frank Lampard's is too manipulative for my taste. Lampard has been a Chelsea hero for most of his career and if it were up to him he would finish his career there, but Chelsea were the ones who decided to part ways. This is very different. Chelsea fans didn't feel rejected - this is the crucial point here.

I'm not saying Arsenal fans are better than others, there are scumbags in all walks of life and certainly in all groups of supporters with no exception. I'm just saying: if you want to point fingers and compare with other clubs, at least choose a like-for-like situation.
 
gerd said:
Bebo, i'm not the only grumpy old man:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/oct/05/football-fans-taboo-applauding-opponents

Credit to Chelsea fans who did applaud Lampard before and also after his goal against them. But that is something that doesn't fit in the bad club-narrative surrounding Chelsea.

I hope Wenger gets a serious touchline ban. Like i said, he behaved like an idiot, one should expect this from Mourinho, but not from Wenger.

Arsenal needa player like Matic and as long as they don't get one like that, they will Always loose against the real big teams.

About the Chambers bookings: read the papers, it seems most people agree with me. Arsenal was never the victim of the ref yesterday...if there was one team disadvantaged then it was Chelsea...i watched the match hoping Arsenal would win...but the better won.
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But what you're doing here is comparing how Chelsea fans regard Lampard and how Arsenal fans regard Fabregas. Lampard is one of Chelsea's biggest club legends, if not the biggest. Fabregas is not an Arsenal legend at all, and like Bebo said, he bought out his own contract at Arsenal.
 
I don't get the comparing of Lampard n Cesc. Lampard is playing for MLS a giant drop in league. Who happens to get picked for a temporary loan. Fans w'd boo Cesc even if Arsenal won 0-3 . Brits are known to boo other countries anthem before a match. I remember Ricky fighting Mayweather in US soil to have a group of Brits booing during the National Anthem surrounded by yanks. No one bat an eye from it .
 
Bebo, i'm sorry, but as often, i don't understand a thing of what you are implying in your last post. I guess it's the language difference, but it's strange i only have that with you (and quite often, no offense meant).

Perhaps Fabregas wasn't an Arsenal legend, but he was your captain and served you very well. I remember a discussion about Nasri and the stick he gets from Arsenal fans. It was Jonnymendoza who answered me that Arsenal fans will only boo former players who deserve that and then he gave a quite interesting example. He said that Arsenal fans would never boo a player like Fabregas because he served the club well and left in a very decent way.

I think Wenger made a very big mistake by refusing Fabregas this summer. IMO Fabregas is together with Silva the outstanding player in the league this season.

And lastly, why should a player be a club legend to get appreciation from opposing fans ? I remember Ronaldo (the Brazilian) getting a standing ovation at Old Trafford. Now that is class...

To be fair, i have the same feelings if i see Spurs fans react to Arsenal players...i don't like that tribalism.

I have also favourite clubs, but i don't like that kind of reaction.

Rentboy, i agree about the penalty. I didn't mention it in this thread (forgot) but i did mention it in my post in the referee thread. I'm not sure if it would have changed the match...Chelsea were much stronger than Arsenal...but we will never know this of course.
 
Damjan said:
But what you're doing here is comparing how Chelsea fans regard Lampard and how Arsenal fans regard Fabregas. Lampard is one of Chelsea's biggest club legends, if not the biggest. Fabregas is not an Arsenal legend at all, and like Bebo said, he bought out his own contract at Arsenal.
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Exactly mate and most importantly: Lampard wanted to renew the contract, but Chelsea released him. Chelsea fans wanted him to stay, but it was out of the player's hands, so he has no choice but to move on. He ended up at Man City maybe just by chance, but the fans wanted him to stay and the player wanted to stay. This connection between player and fans remained because of this mutual desire.

With Fabregas, he chose to leave and forced it by buying his own contract out. Fans felt rejected by their own captain and comments such as "I want to win trophies" when he left didn't help either. It hurts to hear this as a fan, as much as you know your team was going through a tough transition period, going season after season with a squad that was inferior to their main rivals.

I still like Fabregas and I'm neutral towards him when he faces Arsenal. But that's just me, as I know most fans aren't, especially when they are Highbury-based die-hard fans in the thick of it, going to all away matches. We have to understand that the away fans have such passion for the club that it clouds everything else and their actions sometimes transcend reason. As it happens with everything in life when there's more emotion than reason.

Furthermore, Arsenal fans booing Cesc cannot be singled out based on what we've seen in English football whenever a former player joins a rival. When someone moves from Sunderland to Newcastle, from Arsenal to Chelsea, from Man United to City (remember Carlitos) and so on. And we will see much more of that still, rest assured.
In the end, I suspect the article stems from the Guardian's agenda of attacking anything that looks remotely politically incorrect in their opinion, with that typical "our shit doesn't stink" attitude of theirs. I have been growing wary of the Guardian's stance on several subjects, but this is extremely off-topic so I'll just stop here.
 
gerd- I was implying we could choose to understand the tribalism ,or not. Its doesn`t change the fact it happens in the UK. 'booing' is not something new. Although you would pointed it out every time . I'm more immune to it.

Cesc is playing well for Chelsea having the free roam, just like he did for Arsenal. I really can`t see Fabregas getting booed at the Emirates. Then, again :YAWN:
 
gerd said:
Bebo, i'm not the only grumpy old man:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/oct/05/football-fans-taboo-applauding-opponents

Credit to Chelsea fans who did applaud Lampard before and also after his goal against them. But that is something that doesn't fit in the bad club-narrative surrounding Chelsea.

I hope Wenger gets a serious touchline ban. Like i said, he behaved like an idiot, one should expect this from Mourinho, but not from Wenger.

Arsenal needa player like Matic and as long as they don't get one like that, they will Always loose against the real big teams.

About the Chambers bookings: read the papers, it seems most people agree with me. Arsenal was never the victim of the ref yesterday...if there was one team disadvantaged then it was Chelsea...i watched the match hoping Arsenal would win...but the better won.
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Wenger has a long history of behaving like an idiot
 
I hear him all the time talking about what we did wrong after matches. He doesnt blame individual players but he will say if a certain aspect of the play was bad etc

I don't agree with what he did and I am sure he regrets it, its petty. The worse thing about it was that it took away from that awful challenge that should have been a red card. Its happened to Alexis twice now in as many games, do these situations really need a players leg to split in half before action is taken?

I don't agree with what Wenger did, but I can understand why he did it.

On the case of the match and who benefitted most, it probably should have been 1 red card each and one penalty each imo.

Either way The best team won anyway so it doesnt really matter.

I for one was gutted when we didn't sign Fab back it is silly to boo him I think, I have always liked him. Again though I understand completely why we didnt buy him.
 
I really respect him for the no handshake thing, he did it when other managers were being dicks and disrespectful. Why should you have to shake the other guys hand?

It just goes to show how fucked up it all is when everybody went crazy that he didnt shake the hand and totally ignore the behavior of the other manager and the reason why he didnt shake his hand.

When did it happen, was it with Mark hughes? It was a while ago.
 
Haha handshakes really? The handshake can the most hypocritical, fake, empty gesture at times. What's the point to shake hands with someone that upset you, or someone you specifically don't like and, while you do it, look them in the eye and grin "you, sir, are a fucking asshole".

When Wayne Bridge refused to shake hands with John Terry, did he get a lot of flak for it, or was his will simply respected?

I don't believe Wenger singlehandedly introduced the no-handshake thing as you put it, neither he does it on a regular basis. But to be frank, it does bring a degree of honesty to relations between managers. It's much better, much more transparent that way. Not to mention that the handshake is foremost a gesture of appreciation for another person (or when you get introduced to new person, at best) and if you go shaking hands with everyone regardless you'll end up emptying the meaning of such gesture. And collect some germs needlessly :P
 
bebo said:
Haha really? A prick for not shaking hands? Is that why all City manager learned that from. Give me a break ffs!
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Pellegrini only once with Mourinho

Mancini always shook hands as far as I can remember.

Wenger's list of no handshakes is pretty long. He's a nosey weirdo
 
I remember reading in the book about Ferguson (not the one he wrote after he stopped, an earlier one), that Ferguson has a habit of inviting visiting managers for a glass of wine before (or maybe after, i'm not sure) the match and that Wenger was the only who refused to have that glass of wine...

To be fair, i'm not sure if i would accept that glass of wine from a manager who plays mind games and tends to cheat like Ferguson did.


Football is a bizar thing and i will never understand English fans (even if they are not English). Look at the reactions in this thread, it is as if we have insulted your wives and kids and not the manager of your favourite club.

I'm a big admirer of Wenger, but why don't you accept that he sometimes behaves like an idiot ? And the reaction about my comment about the fans ? That is tribalism.

I remember Walcott being booed by Spurs fans when he was on that stretcher last season...i was embarassed to be a Spurs fan...why don't you accept that Arsenal fan often behave idiots too (Fabregas, Eboué and even Adebayor, he left the club for ages now).
 
I need evidence of these, i only remember a couple?

The list does read like a who's who of dicks though so it could be true ;))

EDIT: refering to godo post
 
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gerd said:
I remember reading in the book about Ferguson (not the one he wrote after he stopped, an earlier one), that Ferguson has a habit of inviting visiting managers for a glass of wine before (or maybe after, i'm not sure) the match and that Wenger was the only who refused to have that glass of wine...

To be fair, i'm not sure if i would accept that glass of wine from a manager who plays mind games and tends to cheat like Ferguson did.


Football is a bizar thing and i will never understand English fans (even if they are not English). Look at the reactions in this thread, it is as if we have insulted your wives and kids and not the manager of your favourite club.

I'm a big admirer of Wenger, but why don't you accept that he sometimes behaves like an idiot ? And the reaction about my comment about the fans ? That is tribalism.

I remember Walcott being booed by Spurs fans when he was on that stretcher last season...i was embarassed to be a Spurs fan...why don't you accept that Arsenal fan often behave idiots too (Fabregas, Eboué and even Adebayor, he left the club for ages now).
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No one defended Arsene`s actions... You take pop shots all the time . You used to support that club or this one(possibly to prove your bias views) . You like every club or the losing one on the day. You don`t understand the views of some fans? That`s probably ,because you switch 'support' clubs, like Anelka switches them. :))

I can not understand how you can support one then switch to another. I mean you`re not (12yrs old) I don`t take pop shots at your reasons for liking every other club. You sure don`t hold back though . I think most of us don`t like the booing, we know fans will do it. I hate when fans shout profanity at the refs. That`s me! I`m not touche for Arsenal although you will take my tone for it. I`ve been here for a few yrs. I lived the bad and good moment of The Arsenal.

@Godotelli Hopefully you will know what it is to have a manager longer then 4 yrs. He will build a imagine to represent your club. Pelligrini is a good manager nothing special only that he looks mummified. Walking Dead innit.
 
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gerd said:
Bebo, i'm sorry, but as often, i don't understand a thing of what you are implying in your last post. I guess it's the language difference, but it's strange i only have that with you (and quite often, no offense meant).

Perhaps Fabregas wasn't an Arsenal legend, but he was your captain and served you very well. I remember a discussion about Nasri and the stick he gets from Arsenal fans. It was Jonnymendoza who answered me that Arsenal fans will only boo former players who deserve that and then he gave a quite interesting example. He said that Arsenal fans would never boo a player like Fabregas because he served the club well and left in a very decent way.

I think Wenger made a very big mistake by refusing Fabregas this summer. IMO Fabregas is together with Silva the outstanding player in the league this season.

And lastly, why should a player be a club legend to get appreciation from opposing fans ? I remember Ronaldo (the Brazilian) getting a standing ovation at Old Trafford. Now that is class...

To be fair, i have the same feelings if i see Spurs fans react to Arsenal players...i don't like that tribalism.

I have also favourite clubs, but i don't like that kind of reaction.

Rentboy, i agree about the penalty. I didn't mention it in this thread (forgot) but i did mention it in my post in the referee thread. I'm not sure if it would have changed the match...Chelsea were much stronger than Arsenal...but we will never know this of course.
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Hi gerd. Yea i remember saying that and I don't agree with our fans booing Fabregas.

I personally don't have nothing against him
 
Feo is the new Diaby. Debuchy, Ozil and Giroud out until December/Jan 2015... this Shad Forsythe better be good or we're screwed.
 
Great. Koscielny was sent back to London with chronic Achilles problems. Ain't that just great? Right in the position where we have most cover :COAT:

This bit here from Arsenblog sums up our situation (of Wenger's own making):

In the absence of Mesut Ozil you can choose from Santi Cazorla, Jack Wilshere, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain or Tomas Rosicky to fill the gap. If Koscielny gets hurt then we’re reduced to driving around the streets looking for a football version of that homeless dude in the USA who had the great radio voice. “Top class centre-half, just need chance.”
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Alright boys, it's just you and us in the great Premier League Injury race 2014/15.

Good luck, we'll both need it if we're expected to keep up these levels of broken men. A third of each squad out! Magnificent stuff. No one else is in with a sniff.
 
Rentboy said:
Great. Koscielny was sent back to London with chronic Achilles problems. Ain't that just great? Right in the position where we have most cover :COAT:

This bit here from Arsenblog sums up our situation (of Wenger's own making):
Click to expand...

Wenger, surely, is smart enough to notice that starting the league with Koscielny, Mertesacker, Debuchy, Nacho, Gibbs, Chambers would not cut it. So why not sign a third stopper?
 
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