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Ask the Dutch about the Dutch

Look Van Basten is trying to get the NT play very dominant attacking but somehow it ain't working too well. Only one time we destroid the opponent and that was against germany couple of months ago. It was 2-2 at the end but that was because van basten changed 7 players and the whole system in the 2nd half. The 1st half maaannnnnnn what a total destruction of Klinsmanns team. The problem of Van Basten is that he wants to try all these new players and throws them in front of the lions. He always won but it was also lcuk that helped. We never actually dominated the whole game like we use to in the Dutch Nation team. I think we miss Stam in the back. Also what really is strange is that Davids is third option on the left midfield. Wtf man! Who the hell is BOATENG??? I can play better then Boateng!!! Another problem is our right wing. The left is ók with Robben and van Persie but right..........who? Kuyt ain't a winger but a striker, Meerdink is SHIT! Yildirim too slow! Kalou was maybe a good option but he ain't coming.
 
Yeah that's the strange thing about Van Basten. The guy wants to try new guys all the time and in my eyes too much. Quit it with the experimenting already! Vlaar is a 19 year old guy!!! Ooijer should have played. Ooijer terminated the whole Milan attack with Alex.
 
Amsterdammer said:
What kind of a formation is that in gods name??? You really want us killed out there? Haha just joking but your formation is a joke as well. First of all Lucius ain't playin' at PSV. His always keeping the bench warm. 2nd Kromkamp should be on the reight side and not on the left side. I rather see Emanuelson or Van Bronckhorst. 3rd I'd also see a left foot defender instead of Boulahrouz there for instance Mathijsen. 4th what kind of a formation is this? 4-5-1? We are Holland man we don't play like Chelsea. You have to be proud that we are from Holland and you know why? Cause we are the creators of TOTAL FOOTBALL, we are ATTACK, we are STYLE, we are BEAUTY IN THE GAME. That's why we play 4-3-3 or 3-4-3.
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Though Lucius isn't playing, other options concern rightbacks such as Jaliens and Reiziger. Neither is good enough, in my opinion.
Only other capable rightback, as you pointed out, is Kromkamp. Yet, then who'd play as leftback? Emanuelson is too inexpernienced, especially in defence, he'd get eaten alive when faced with some tough experienced wingers. Van Bronckhorst in his long carreer still hasn't learned to defend. The fullback position is a problematic position.
What's the need for a left-footer in defence? That's not a requirement for a defence to be functional. Especially when those right-footed players are the better players than the left-footed one in question.
A 4-5-1 doesn't need to be defence, especially when 4 out of 5 midfielders add an attacking presence.
Neither have I ever liked this "we need to play 4-3-3, because we are the Netherlands" crap. You should always play the formation that brings out the most quality in your side, especially in the national team where you have less time to let your team gel - so playing a formation where the best players excell in, is your best option.

Also, try to have a bit more respect for another one's opinion next time please. It isn't nice to call one's vision on a team a joke.
 
hahahaha, Don is a guy with principles! You sound like his father. You're the youngest father I know.

RB is Boulahrouz, LB Mathijsen the 2 CB's are Ooijer and Heitinga. That would be a good defence.
 
Don Domenico said:
Though Lucius isn't playing, other options concern rightbacks such as Jaliens and Reiziger. Neither is good enough, in my opinion.
Only other capable rightback, as you pointed out, is Kromkamp. Yet, then who'd play as leftback? Emanuelson is too inexpernienced, especially in defence, he'd get eaten alive when faced with some tough experienced wingers. Van Bronckhorst in his long carreer still hasn't learned to defend. The fullback position is a problematic position.
What's the need for a left-footer in defence? That's not a requirement for a defence to be functional. Especially when those right-footed players are the better players than the left-footed one in question.
A 4-5-1 doesn't need to be defence, especially when 4 out of 5 midfielders add an attacking presence.
Neither have I ever liked this "we need to play 4-3-3, because we are the Netherlands" crap. You should always play the formation that brings out the most quality in your side, especially in the national team where you have less time to let your team gel - so playing a formation where the best players excell in, is your best option.

Also, try to have a bit more respect for another one's opinion next time please. It isn't nice to call one's vision on a team a joke.
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Emanuelson is gettin' good progress in his game also in defending. Another good option is Tim De Cler. But Kromkamp on the LB ain't good man. Listen to what Cruijff says about right footed players on the left side. Come on you really serieus with this 4-5-1 thing? We actually really can play 4-3-3 so what are you talkin' about? Only Van Basten is the one who pick the wrong folks. Davids where is he? If we play 4-3-3 with Boateng ofcourse it will be crap. 4-3-3 is our pride and we should never switch to another formation like 4-5-1. This is something tradionally and special. This is our whole history. We don't just put that away man.
 
joostebrood said:
hahahaha, Don is a guy with principles! You sound like his father. You're the youngest father I know.

RB is Boulahrouz, LB Mathijsen the 2 CB's are Ooijer and Heitinga. That would be a good defence.
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Yeah that would be a great defense because their all 4 CB's. In attacking part (de opbouw) that would be nothing
 
joostebrood said:
hahahaha, Don is a guy with principles! You sound like his father. You're the youngest father I know.
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Hey, I was insulted by the joke comments. Simple as that.

joostebrood said:
RB is Boulahrouz, LB Mathijsen the 2 CB's are Ooijer and Heitinga. That would be a good defence.
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Would be strong defensively, though i'm not sure about Heitinga. Heitinga has never impressed me. I do agree with Amsterdammer here, as our build-up play would be affected.


Amsterdammer said:
Emanuelson is gettin' good progress in his game also in defending. Another good option is Tim De Cler. But Kromkamp on the LB ain't good man. Listen to what Cruijff says about right footed players on the left side. Come on you really serieus with this 4-5-1 thing? We actually really can play 4-3-3 so what are you talkin' about? Only Van Basten is the one who pick the wrong folks. Davids where is he? If we play 4-3-3 with Boateng ofcourse it will be crap. 4-3-3 is our pride and we should never switch to another formation like 4-5-1. This is something tradionally and special. This is our whole history. We don't just put that away man.
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Most progress Emanuelson makes is offensively, as he is mainly an offensive player, despite playing in deefnce. De Cler? Maybe, though he really is average at best. I do not think we have the right forwards for 4-3-3, we lack a right winger. I think neither Van Persie or Kuijt are right wingers. That 4-3-3 tradition is exactly what annoys me, playing 4-3-3 just because it's a tradition...
 
Amsterdammer said:
Yeah that would be a great defense because their all 4 CB's. In attacking part (de opbouw) that would be nothing
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Fuck, I'm really the only one who knows about football here. Sorry, but you're a disgrace to my country, I can't deal with this anymore.

Mathijsen does most of the build up for AZ. Ooijer does the same for PSV and Heitinga was amazing before he lost form recently. I know I'm older and more experienced than you guys, but when I was 13, like you, I already knew more about this beautiful game we call football.
 
joostebrood said:
Fuck, I'm really the only one who knows about football here. Sorry, but you're a disgrace to my country, I can't deal with this anymore.

Mathijsen does most of the build up for AZ. Ooijer does the same for PSV and Heitinga was amazing before he lost form recently. I know I'm older and more experienced than you guys, but when I was 13, like you, I already knew more about this beautiful game we call football.
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You think you're special or what huh? I'm a disgrace to my country cause you think you know more about football? Look at you........I can only laugh at boys like you.

SB's are a whole lot different compared too CB's. Mathijsen ain't good as a SB like De Cler, Gio or Emanuelson. He's actually too big and lacks alot of speed for that position. Bigger guys like him are more manmarker foor center. The best Side backs in the world are R.Carlos, J. Zanetti, Ashley Cole, Hatem Trabelsi, Zambrotta etc. None of them actually can defend in a Center Back role. Their all guys who join the attack, have a great stamina and have much speed. You name guys who are more CB's then SB's. Come on man why Heitinga? I'm an Ajax guy but Heitinga ain't playin' much ánd he has a crisis with his form but stíll you prefer him for in the centre rather then Mathijsen or Boulahrouz.
 
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Amsterdammer said:
You think you're special or what huh? I'm a disgrace to my country cause you think you know more about football? Look at you........I can only laugh at boys like you.

SB's are a whole lot different compared too CB's. Mathijsen ain't good as a SB like De Cler, Gio or Emanuelson. He's actually too big and lacks alot of speed for that position. Bigger guys like him are more manmarker foor center. The best Side backs in the world are R.Carlos, J. Zanetti, Ashley Cole, Hatem Trabelsi, Zambrotta etc. None of them actually can defend in a Center Back role. Their all guys who join the attack, have a great stamina and have much speed. You name guys who are more CB's then SB's. Come on man why Heitinga? I'm an Ajax guy but Heitinga ain't playin' much ánd he has a crisis with his form but stíll you prefer him for in the centre rather then Mathijsen or Boulahrouz.
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ahhhhh, I can't take it anymore. Mathijsen slow... he plays 1 on 1 all the time at AZ. I don't think a lot of coaches will play 1 on 1 with a slow defender. With this Dutch team you have to have 4 great defenders. Build up won't be a problem if your midfielders take good position. Ooijer, Mathijsen, Boulahrouz can all pass ball forward, fuck even I can do that. It has to do with the positioning of your midfielders. I don't get the fuzz about how defenders should be great at build up play, it's mainly a Dutch discussion. Other countries don't care about it and there's a reason for that.
You do need attacking side defenders, I agree. But if you decide to play with wingers it's less important, than when playing a 4-4-2. Usually van Bronckhorst has to stay back anyway when Robben has the ball, to keep position in case Robben loses possession. This is a task Mathijsen and Boulahrouz can easily do. Maybe even Ooijer as a RB, I don't care. I just don't want to tell you people afterwards how Holland got eliminated because our backs were terrible. And coming up with Carlos, Trabelsi etc is great fun, but doesn't mean shit, since we don't have backs of that caliber. I rather settle for a nice alternative that secures your defence a bit more.

You should show some respect for me, I've been a long time member, I think it was 1987 or something.
 
joostebrood said:
ahhhhh, I can't take it anymore. Mathijsen slow... he plays 1 on 1 all the time at AZ. I don't think a lot of coaches will play 1 on 1 with a slow defender. With this Dutch team you have to have 4 great defenders. Build up won't be a problem if your midfielders take good position. Ooijer, Mathijsen, Boulahrouz can all pass ball forward, fuck even I can do that. It has to do with the positioning of your midfielders. I don't get the fuzz about how defenders should be great at build up play, it's mainly a Dutch discussion. Other countries don't care about it and there's a reason for that.
You do need attacking side defenders, I agree. But if you decide to play with wingers it's less important, than when playing a 4-4-2. Usually van Bronckhorst has to stay back anyway when Robben has the ball, to keep position in case Robben loses possession. This is a task Mathijsen and Boulahrouz can easily do. Maybe even Ooijer as a RB, I don't care. I just don't want to tell you people afterwards how Holland got eliminated because our backs were terrible. And coming up with Carlos, Trabelsi etc is great fun, but doesn't mean shit, since we don't have backs of that caliber. I rather settle for a nice alternative that secures your defence a bit more.

You should show some respect for me, I've been a long time member, I think it was 1987 or something.
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Mathijsen never plays SB at AZ so what are you talkin' about? You want a player who plays the whole season for CB now for SB that's crazy. If he's so great as a SB why doesn't Van Gaal put him their? And you say guys who come up all the time we don't have? I say Van Bronckhorst, Kromkamp, De Cler, Emanuelson, etc.......... My point is SB don't have to be CB. Carlos, Trabelsi, A.Cole are NOT CB and are the same players like I just called. And you say with alot of arrogance you know everything about football...........:roll:
 
Here's a question, which I'm sure might have been asked elsewhere, but I can't be bothered to look.

Why is it that sometimes you are called Holland or the Netherlands?

Isn't Holland just a region? Or is it something to do with the language, if so, then why not Flemland? ;)
 
Amsterdammer said:
Mathijsen never plays SB at AZ so what are you talkin' about? You want a player who plays the whole season for CB now for SB that's crazy. If he's so great as a SB why doesn't Van Gaal put him their? And you say guys who come up all the time we don't have? I say Van Bronckhorst, Kromkamp, De Cler, Emanuelson, etc.......... My point is SB don't have to be CB. Carlos, Trabelsi, A.Cole are NOT CB and are the same players like I just called. And you say with alot of arrogance you know everything about football...........:roll:
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You really don't fucking get it. I know where Mathijsen plays, but I also see a lot of qualities a SB also needs needs to have. Plus... read my post again and especially the part where I tell you that you can play SB's with different qualities with the system Holland currently play. I must admit I'm not a fan of wingers at all, but it's reality and considering that I'd change my defence, so there's just 4 guys stopping every attack. This is really the last thing I'm saying about this subject, because you get on my nerves and my pace maker is working over-time. You're a disgrace.
 
I think it would be Exelsior Bob. To be honest, I don't follow the Gouden Gids Divisie that much, even though it's a fun league. A lot of switches at the top of the table. Lots of goals and surprises.

Spikester, I don't have a clue. There's 2 regions in Holland: Northern Holland and Southern Holland. That's where my knowledge ends. Wikipedia probably has an answer to this.
 
joostebrood said:
Spikester, I don't have a clue. There's 2 regions in Holland: Northern Holland and Southern Holland. That's where my knowledge ends. Wikipedia probably has an answer to this.
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Hmm, well you learn something new everyday:

Naming conventions
In English, '(the) Netherlands' is the official name of the European part of the 'Kingdom of the Netherlands'. 'Holland' is commonly used as a synonym for the Netherlands, but is actually a region in the central-western part of the country. The country's people and language are called 'Dutch'. 'Netherlanders' can be used for the people and 'Netherlandic' or 'Netherlands' as adjectives, but they are uncommon. In most languages, the name for the country literally means 'low lands' or is a transliteration of 'Nederland' or 'Holland'. Although this was more common in the past, the definite article does not need to be capitalised in English, not even when citing the name. For example, it is possible to write "The country is semi-officially called 'The Netherlands' [or: the 'Netherlands'], and 'Holland' is used less than in the past.", but it is more common to see "He lives in the Netherlands." with a lower case in print nowadays.

The name "Holland", or derivations of it, is commonly used for the Netherlands both in Dutch and in most other languages and can even be the official name of the country, e.g. Hoolanda (Arabic) and Oranda (Japanese). Strictly speaking, though, 'Holland' is the name of a region within the Netherlands, which was the economic powerhouse during the time of the United Provinces (1581-1795). Using 'Holland' for 'the Netherlands' is thus comparable to the use of 'England' for 'the United Kingdom'. Many Dutch people, especially those from provinces other than North Holland and South Holland, object to the use of the name of 'Holland' for the entire Netherlands.

The plural form ("Netherlands") is not commonly used in Dutch anymore, but instead a singular form of de Nederlanden: Nederland. The people are referred to as Nederlanders ("Dutch" in English) and the language is called Nederlands (again, "Dutch" in English). The plural form Nederlanden is mainly used when referring to the entire Kingdom (het Koninkrijk der Nederlanden), which includes the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.

The English word "Dutch" is akin to the German word Deutsch and has the same etymological origin. Both these terms derive from what in Germanic was known as theodisca, which meant "(language) of the (common) people". During the early middle ages, it was the elite that mostly used Latin and the common people used their local languages. An older Dutch term for the language of the Netherlands is Diets or Nederdietsch.

I feel edjamacated now :D

I still prefer Flemland though...
 
haha good bit of info Spikester, taught me a thing or two I was curious about as well.

Just so you know in my country, everyone also refers to the country as "Holland".
 
The thought of Flemland makes me sick;)
Nice piece of info, rhough it's alot easier than that wall of text makes you think.
 
Flemish is spoken in the Northern part of Belgium.
Lots of Dutchmen are originally Flemish.
Just before the golden century of Holland lots of protestant Flemish people fled to Holland because of the Spanish contrareformation (Flanders was part of Spain then)...
The Dutch language that is spoken in Holland nowadays is a "descendant" of the language of Antwerp and Brabant in Belgium (the area in the vicinity of Brussels).

About football now. Saw Inter -Ajax yesterday.
All in all Ajax played not bad.
Once again they have a very young team (8 players under 25), in a couple of years they could have a great team...do you guys agree...

Oh and a chauvinistic question, is Thomas Vermaelen doing well in Ajax???
 
The problem for us Gerd, is that rich teams will come and buy our best players, so we can never form a great team. Just think if we still had VD Vaart, de Jong, Chivu, Zlatan, Mido, vd meyde, maxwell. And after this season Trabelsi and Pienaar are also leaving, and Grygera perhaps too.

Vermaelen is doing pretty well, but he does make abit too much mistakes at the moment, but thats largely due to his inexperience i think. Next season he can learn alot from playing with Jaap Stam i think.

p.s. I was wondering what people were mean with Flemish, but its oofcourse english for Vlaams, didnt know that before...
 
gerd said:
Once again they have a very young team (8 players under 25), in a couple of years they could have a great team...do you guys agree...
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No afraid not Gerd :(

As much as I DREAM of the day that Ajax becomes a European super heavyweight again and a main contender for CL each year, I don't see it happening.

Sure they had a lot of young players this season and you noticed this but that's been same case every other year too but as soon as they mature and develop into better players, they leave anyway and Ajax puts in 5-6 NEW young players who again will take 3-4 years to develop their full potential and then move on or sometimes even before reaching full potential.

So it's like an ongoing process and because of it Ajax is not gonna become a major European team anymore sadly! :(

Fully agree with what Big Boss said, if Ajax actually could go 3-4 seasons without getting rid of any key players again they could become a major team in Europe and one to be feared, just think of if they hadn't sold the players they have in past 5 years alone what type of team they'd have right now! But it doesn't happen.. as soon as they get very good and are showing promise, they move to bigger leagues/teams so Ajax replaces with some NEW 17-20 year olds who again are too weak and inexperienced against the established and experienced 27 year olds of stronger teams! :(

It's a bit sad but I guess that's how things have been for a while and the sooner we get used to the idea the less the pain! :/

p.s. Vermaelen seems promising and can have very good future in my opinion but again this is a good example of what I just talked about. You sell established players and have to put a 19 year old skinny Belgian in place of him in FIRST team next season so of course it takes time to gel and for him to get better and by time and IF he does.. then he'll leave anyway and a new inexperienced and young Vermaelen will come and take his place :/

I'm sure you know what I'm talking about now!
 
Yeah you're right PLF..i really love Ajax...a mythical team for me...as a Belgian i love Dutch football (most Flemish people don't like Holland and Dutch people, i love them...).
 
You're right PLF, at this way we'll never build up a new team. But with the coming of Jaap Stam next year there is some perspective. It's a big leader and a big name which can attract other big players to come to Ajax. When v. Geel (the Technical Director) goes on like this I think we'll grow the next years and create a good mix with young guys like Emanuelson, Vermaelen and Huntelaar and old leaders like Stam. When this process continues, and we can hold players like Emanuelson and Huntelaar for a while (longer than 3 or 4 years) I think Ajax will grow and attract bigger players to come. So we have to break the negative way and look up again!

PS: what you need to keep those players is one thing of course: money..;)
 
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