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ENGLAND thread

Re: England Thread - "Hoof it Son, flick it on and we'll win this!"

whole england team i can feel some difference, i wouldn´t belive i say it but they look very much as a team, good unit...maybe they can build on this for next world cup..i have much faith in Egland glory in next years.. they simply need to give many time to young quality players also in their league.. take the example in Germany and Italy.. or best Spain.
 
Re: England Thread - "Hoof it Son, flick it on and we'll win this!"

henderson, parker and milner need to fuck off and never play for england again.
but we did alright, atleast we got out the group, better than expected..
 
Re: England Thread - "Hoof it Son, flick it on and we'll win this!"

Look at the german team: Özil (turkish origins), Khedira (tunisian), Podoslky (polnish), Boateng (Ghana), Klose (polnish), Gundogan (turkish), Gomez (spanish).

They opened up opportunities for homegrown foreigners in their bundesliga and reap now the benefits in the national team.

England should do the same and be more diversive and inclusive.
 
Re: England Thread - "Hoof it Son, flick it on and we'll win this!"

matherto said:
It's bound to go to penalties I reckon.
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Called it.

Inevitable failure at the quarters on penalties.

Italy were miles, miles better than us (Pirlo especially is just sublime in this form) but then so were Bayern versus Chelsea and you all know what happened then.

Milner, Carroll, Parker, Welbeck, Rooney and Young (especially Young, shithouse) can fuck off.

Rooney just wasn't at it and the rest aren't good enough.
 
Re: England Thread - "Hoof it Son, flick it on and we'll win this!"

PLF said:
I've no idea what Gabe is on about.

England would've been absolutely HUMPED by Germany! Italy on the other hand will probably get beat too but they have a chance and will certainly give the Germans more to think about.

No wonder many of the German players honestly said: "We prefer playing England to Italy" before this game when asked who they want to play in semi-finals. Now we know why.

Italy did play very well. If it wasn't for Balotelli, and someone like Di Natale had started, they would've won by a few goals.

Anyway, all in all though, England did better than most thought including myself pre tournament. You went out to a good team. Your players aren't the best and so they did what they could. You also had some injuries like Lampard and Kyle walker pre tournament which reduced your chances even more. Just sayin' Germany only can/will lose in the final.

I wouldn't call this tournament a failure. Not a real success either as you could've easily lost to Sweden and Ukraine who let's face it are two mediocre teams but were lucky to win in both games. You were out played against France but got a goal through a Lescott header in Free kick.
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England was defending thorugh the whole game and Italy was attacking no doubt but no doubt either about that Itlay only made 2-3 decent chances out of the 30 or how many i dunno...u cant say it was the same match like the Holland-Denmark was :SMUG:
 
Re: England Thread - "Hoof it Son, flick it on and we'll win this!"

gabe.paul.logan said:
England was defending thorugh the whole game and Italy was attacking no doubt but no doubt either about that Itlay only made 2-3 decent chances out of the 30 or how many i dunno...u cant say it was the same match like the Holland-Denmark was :SMUG:
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Italy was severely handicapped by Bartoletti.
 
Re: England Thread - "Hoof it Son, flick it on and we'll win this!"

Expected and annoying at the same time, Italy seemed to enjoy embarrassing us and decided to not pull the trigger on us and make us anguish 120 minutes of crap.
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

I think it's a bit unfair to blame England. Nobody with a bit of realism expected a great EURO and Hodgson IMO did the best with his players (first place in group D avoided an humiliation from Spain). It was clear that this was a 'warm up' to WC2014, to try to mix new players (Welbeck, the OX, Jones, Henderson, Kelly, Butland, etc.) with old generation (Terry, Gerrard, Parker, Cole, and even Lampard), and try to give them experience.
The Chelsea tactic didn't work tonight (maybe Shevchenko & Platini jinx?) but England and Italy probably had a similar number of clear chances (Buffon was superb against Johnson after a few minutes) and until the penalties it was 50-50. So personally I would not blame the team.

Respect to English fans that applauded after defeat, not all fans could react this way.
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

England overachieved and i think they played very well against teams that were all stronger.
Gerrard was immense al through the tournament.
The people who say that Parker can fuck off don't know a thing about football, really nothing. I don't claim i'm an expert, but if you don't see that you really are hopeless. One stat to make my point. Before yesterday's match Parker was the player who had recuperated most balls of all the players present. What is his role? Being a DMF. He played his role to perfection.
Most English fans don't see that they have a very, very average national team. You have only one player who is the best in his position: Ashley Cole.
Yesterday Rooney was apalling. People criticize players like Parker, Milner, Walcott but if i had to choose a scapegoat it would be Rooney. Another stupid red card cost him the two first matches (and should have cost him the third), he scored one lucky goal (after two deflections) and yesterday he was pathetic. He is an oafish idiot who lets his team down where he should be there strong holder. Rooney is a big game bottler. He always fails in big games (i know he scored a good goal in the Cl final, that is the exception).
I don't understand why yesterday Hodgson took Wellbeck off and not Rooney. Wellbeck played a very good tournament and for me is among the sensations of the tournament. His goal against Sweden is one of the best i've seen for a long time with regard to the finishing.
Yesterday i was also pretty impressed with Johnson who played a magnificent first half and was very good in the second half too. Oh and don't blame Ashley Young and Ashley Cole, at least they stepped up to take a penalty. It was a miracle that it went to penalties anyway. Italy were much better.
 
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Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

Parker was a good CDM but thats about it, his passing and all that was shit and he gave Pirlo far too much space to run thing for Italy. His job was to stop pirlo from dictating things and he diddnt so i can see why people are slagging off Parker because he wasnt good enough.

The rest of our midfield were shocking. why o why is Milner and Young in the english team? Walcott is much better then Young and Milner and again why did Rooney play? he was fucking shit. Soo shit that Andy Carroll looked better then Rooney and thats saying something.
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

Pirlo is a deep lying playmaker, so if Parker had man marked him he would constantly be out of position, seeing as he plays deep as well. Rooney naturally plays behind the striker, and is more mobile than Carroll (Until a lack of match fitness showed anyway), so stopped Pirlo having too much space. It was when he started tiring in the second half that Pirlo really stepped it up.

Just goes to show you what could have been if only we had a similar player... *cough*Scholes*cough* (Even Carrick would have done a better job than the rest. Shame he's underrated)

Not sure if Walcott is better than Young. They play on opposite flanks so doesn't matter. Adam Johnson would be a better choice for LW.
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

But I really don't think Scholes could have managed so many games in such a short space of time. It's all very well saying take Scholes, but he doesnt have the stamina to play 6 games in 3 weeks, and three of those games have the potential to go to extra time.

I think England had a reasonable tournament. They topped a group and drew with top teams (France and Italy in 120 mins) and beat average teams (Ukraine and Sweden). The defence was pretty good, only really in the Sweden match (largely from set pieces) did it look dodgy for a short spell. Midfield and attack were not great, but there were problems with injured players (Lampard) and Rooney being suspended and then taking time to "gel" into the new team. Hodgson did a decent job, he took a group of above average (but not quite world class) players, made them defensivly organised and hard to beat and in the end went out on penalties. Yes, last night the team was out-classed in midfield by Italy, but even despite this they restriced Italy's attack to only a handful of chances.
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

Jamesy said:
Pirlo is a deep lying playmaker, so if Parker had man marked him he would constantly be out of position, seeing as he plays deep as well.
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Spot on. I don't see much Italian football (infortunately) but i've heard the Belgian commentator (who is a big fan of Serie A) saying that most Italian teams use their forwards to defend on Pirlo. That is what Wellbeck did now and then, but wouldn't that have been Rooney's task? Unless Rooney was the deepest striker...

I tend to agree that Carrick is a better passen than Parker, but Parker is much better defensively.

It's strange two seasons ago Parker was a well appreciated player. After he was elected player of the year, lots of big club fans doesn't like him anymore...until he would play for their club.

It's also peculiar that lots of fans are very critical for their national team, except for the players of their club...they did well, the others failed...IMO except from (maybe) Rooney, nobody did fail. It's just that these players as a squad are not good enough, because they don't have the necessary technical skills. A player like Johnson was named as the weak link in the team, IMO he was outstanding against Italy. But it seems that most English player are more or less useless when they lack space. That is also the reason why i think lots of English fans don't like Spain. Spain constantly has to play matches where the space is very, very limited/restricted, hence their "boring" football (which IMO is wonderfull football). But the lack of space makes them more elaborate...
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

England was so poor last night it wasn't even funny. Seriously how shit is Milner?
When Cashley Cole is playing for his country seems to forget how to attack, I haven't seen him overlapping more than 2 or 3 times the whole match? He was completely nullified.
And Young is such an embarrassment, not only he was awful, but doing his customary diving and feigning injury (Maggio won't play the semi-final because of his theatrics). When he missed the penalty I thought that was instant Karma.
Parker is the most overrated player I've seen in a long time and yesterday's performance only reinforces what I think.
And Gerrard, let's face it guys, he's way way waaay past it. He's got a magical right foot that has really worked wonders for England, but he doesn't have the energy/stamina required for that role anymore. He was chasing shadows all night.

England has to rebuild for 2014 and time's short. Hodgson must take out the trash and museum antiques like Gerrard and Terry must go.
There was actually a moment yesterday when BBC's commentator "lost it" with Lescott when he played some Italian striker onside after a corner or something... that coming after the umpteenth time Terry had played Balotelli onside :P
I truly think John Terry gets away with things too easily. In the future, without him in the team things will be better for England.

There are some encouraging signs of quality there. Ox and Welbeck have it in them to play for a long time for England. Hart is a very decent goalkeeper with fantastic attitude (how about those faces in the penalty shootout? :D
Lescott and Cahill will form a good partnership for the future, Glen Johnson is a right back I always rated highly and with guys like Walker and Wilshere coming back, things will improve.

But one thing is for sure, this team needs to learn how to retain possession, slow down the tempo and pass it around.
At some point at the end of the 1st half when I thought England wasn't so bad, they showed the stats for passes completed: 220 for Italy and 120 for England. And ball possession is telling too. You cannot give possession away over and over like that.
Guys like Scott Parker sum this up: panics too much on the ball and always try to pass it too fast, trying to be too direct whilst being too predictable.
That midfield is flat, there's no real creative midfielder available at the moment and that's a problem. You see the impact that Pirlo, a veteran player, made yesterday.

There is something very wrong with the way creative players are developed in England, I've posted it before in the Arsenal thread. For now I've written enough.

Anyways, good luck for the English with the renovation, I'm looking forward to it. I hope Hodgson gets rid of the old household names that can't hack it anymore. Do it without fear really, and you will do much better. Because these are the big names that won't bring silverware, only expectations and headlines (look at Brazil in 2006 with Ronaldo, Adriano, Ronaldinho, Cafu, R. Carlos... guys who are there for too long to give a f*ck and won't play with real hunger and heart).
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

Spot on Gerd, regarding Parker and his role in the team.

Let me also say, that Parker has been carrying an injury most of the season.
He wanted an early operation on it, but Redknapp (the twat) has been insisting that he play through it for Tottenham's sake.

It's no wonder that he's looked more exhausted than I've ever seen him, but even DESPITE that, he's been doing the job of midfield destroyer, winning the ball.

The problem, is that the players who are meant to then build and play, were not doing their jobs and giving the ball away.

Also, again, as has been rightly pointed out: it was not Parker's job to mark Pirlo. It should have been a zonal thing, whoever was near him, place maximum pressure on him.
If Parker played where Pirlo was, then we'd be exposed at the back.

We're a limited team.
The small amount of technical ability that we MAY have offered in the shape of Lampard and Wilshere, was taken away from us.
Our only hope was to play to our strengths - defensive and try to nick games.

Yesterday, we needed an early goal in our good spell. First 20 mins when we were on top.
It would have changed the game and we would have had a little more option on the counter attack.

We'd have still been playing now and not scored.

Technically, possession, passing, movement.... Italy absolutely murdered us tonight and I was extremely impressed with them all round.

As for Pirlo. Well, simply not enough words...
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

i'm sorry it went down like that guys... it's never pretty to lose like this. but u guys somehow managed to hold us back for 120 minutes, and that is no minor feat, as i don't think there are many teams out there who could keep a clean sheet against us right now (even taking into account our wasteful forwards).... spain and croatia certainly couldn't.
and i can't help thinking that with lampard on the pitch, the game would have been much less one sided than it turned out to be. :))
 
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Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

Ben, most people think Lampard shouldn't play (together with Gerrard, but it seems most English people prefer Gerrard).
To me Lampard is the only English player who comes close to Pirlo (he is not as good technically, is passing and vision is very similar to Pirlo, perhaps a tiny litle bit inferior but he is physically stronger).

Personally, i don't think Lampard's presence would have made a big difference.
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

If there's any English midfielder you're going to compare with Pirlo, it would be Paul Scholes.

He's the closest thing England have to a regista.
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

That was a battering aside from the first few minutes.

Pirlo is a true great. His comments on England being very lucky to beat Sweden and Ukraine were true.

Hodgson overacheived in getting the team out of the group.

Dreadfully limited. Amazing how players like Milner and Parker and several other mediocrities command enormous transfer fees and wages. Parker was exhausted and no wonder.

Unlike a top defensive midfielder like a Mascherano for example who reads the attack he just chases around after the ball all the time.

Those headless observers who love all this workrate must enjoy it immensely.

No international side should be scared by England and particularly with what is coming in to replace the old guard. Aside from Wilshere that is.

The BBC were appalling yesterday. Lawrenson needs to be removed ASAP.

Gerrard is England's Pirlo. :FAIL: The Italians would never kick the ball out if one of our players was injured and moaning about Balzaretti who did pick a knee in the face from Parker.

The technical ability is so poor. It would have been a crime if Italy after wasting several glorious chances had been eliminated and I was worrying the horror of Chelsea was to be repeated.

Hart did provide a moment of comedy gold though. Taking his role as a lion too much to heart he roared at Nocerino only for Antonio to cooly roll it in. :LOL:

Germany will be disappointed. They probably were hoping to play England and no doubt trounce the team again, maybe even try for a 5-1 scoreline this time around.

Maggio should appeal his card. Young squealing like a stuck pig when Maggio won the ball cleanly. Funnily enough no diatribes from Lawrenson at all over that one.
 
Re: England Thread - "Hoof it Son, flick it on and we'll win this!"

Milanista said:
Disagree mate, thought we were immense except our finishing. The fact that Shearer, Hansen and Lineker were completely shellshocked by the skill of our relatively 'unknown' squad said a lot.

Thought Parker was very good, but a shame that he was dead by the end of the game.

Edit - disagree with Gabe
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What these three know about football outside of the EPL can be written on the back of a postage stamp.

Germany crush Italy as in 2006 ? Italy are a great tournament team. No one should under estimate them and here they are proving everyone wrong again.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Spain facing off against Italy again. That is if the Italian strikeforce are not so wasteful this time around.
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

Honestly I couldn't help but laugh seeing the likes of Parker / Terry throwing themselves in front of the ball making a last ditch recovery to the roar of the crowd in the bar, forgetting the fact it was poor defensive play to be in that situation in the first place.

Welbeck was booed as he went off, but Carroll was met with an ovation and "There's only one Andy Carroll!", I may be biased but I still despair. I really hate pub crowds.

We need a massive rethink when it comes to our National team, pick players to suit a system and not just pick our club stars.
 
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Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

I thought it was grossly disrespectful of Guy Mowbary to call Alessandro Diamanti a "West Ham reject". I thought that was an atrocious statement to make as a BBC commentator.

Diamanti made more of an impact than most of the England team. What does that say about our precious Premier League when a "reject" does that?
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

Yeah that was very inappropriate, when he said that about almost conceding from a "failed cross from a West Ham reject".
A remark coming from the same sort of obtuse commentators who would laud a mediocre at best English player who got relegated with West Ham, Charlton and Newcastle.

And what did he have to say about Andy Carroll, the £37m striker?

It's time to wake up and smell the coffee. The problem with the English team isn't about having too many overpaid foreigners in the Premier League. It's more about the overrated, overpriced and overpaid English players.

Don't get me wrong, I think Carroll has very good qualities for a proper out and out Centre Forward. I remember that header against Sweden and acknowledge that. But also remember the price tag on the boy and the mind boggles.
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

Wilko22 said:
We need a massive rethink when it comes to our National team, pick players to suit a system and not just pick our club stars.
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Couldn't agree more. Including Wilko's comments on Terry (IMO the most over-rated player in the team, and that's without my United bias!)

If the manager feels that Carroll should be up front, go for it. Price tags should be irrelevant for the national side (as long as the media are ignored!). He'll be there as an aerial threat. However you need someone to run onto the flick ons, otherwise you might as well keep hoofing it to the opposition keeper.
Likewise if you're going to use Welbeck. He'll be there for pace, and through balls will be used. He isn't brilliant at holding the ball up, although that will improve over time, so you need someone who can supply the passes. Welbeck can also play wide if needed, so a "European style" 4-3-3/4-5-1 could be used.

Possible solution? Rooney playing in midfield (United were trialling it early in the season before a certain Mr Scholes came back), giving you a target man & a runner up front, with Rooney happy to burst forward when needed.

That would leave you needing a no nonsense midfield destroyer(Can't think of anyone who fits that mould at the moment though!) & 2 traditional wingers.

They don't have to be the best individually, but if they're picked to play in their natural positions it could make a difference...
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

These conversations make me laugh now really, its that time of season England out and we all start discussing what 'should' change, lets be honest nothing will. 2 years from now im pretty sure the same discussion will be occurring.
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

gerd said:
I tend to agree that Carrick is a better passen than Parker, but Parker is much better defensively...
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Why? Because he runs around a lot?

Parker tends to be out of position all the time because he chases the ball round like a headless chicken. I genuinely thought he'd get sent off in the first game with European refs because he's so reckless.

Carrick isn't a traditional CDM but his positional sense and intelligence means United at least are a hell of a lot better defensively than without him. The amount of interceptions and correct passes he makes to get us out of trouble are invaluable and exactly what England needed.

Instead you get Parker trying to tackle with his face because he's been dragged all over the place and not being able to pass a ball five yards because he's so technically limited.

But then, I'm biased. Both as a United fan and a Carrick fan in general so I can be ignored.
 
Re: England Thread - "ow...hmm that didnt work should we try to pass it next time?...

Why matherto? Because Parker was the player who recuperated most balls from all the players participating in the tournament (i heard that stat from the Belgian commentator and i accept that as the truth, maybe i'm wrong). What is his job as a DMF? Recuperating balls from the opposite team. That is the reason why he is in the team.

It baffles me that most non-English evo-webbers think Parker is a fantastic player while most English forum members think he should not be in the team. In a team you need players who do the dirty work (Dunga with Brazil, Neeskens with Holland, Jan Wouters at the time of Van Basten, Clodoaldo in Pele's Brazil, i don't think these players were any better than Parker).
 
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