FIFA 21 Discussion (Console Versions)

[rojofa]

The problem is, for those hashtags to get so popular, there must be a hell of a lot of people behind it, who all agree Madden is bad.

How many people will watch that FUT clip and go "that looks nothing like real football, what a load of shit"? Probably not that many. Certainly not as many as those who'll shout "great goals", "looks like defending is truly 1v1 with a scoreline like that, YES ABOUT TIME" etc...

Are football fans just naturally that much more stupid than NFL fans then? Football is a way more popular and global sport, there must surely be a comparable or greater number of simulation minded players who think modern FIFA is awful even if we get drowned out at the moment. Probably doesn't help we're split between many languages and countries so things can't go trending so easily.

Madden has content creators regularly pointing out broken gameplay mechanics, missing features, unrealistic passages of play etc. Gradually these channels built momentum until they're now able to influence Twitter like that. Does FIFA even have any similar people? It seems like we all just sit back and accept whatever EA throws at us because football. Maybe moaning on here about it throughout the year after buying it (I didn't buy one since 17 btw, and regretted that one).

Just because it seems like we can't force immediate change, doesn't mean we have to add to the problem by mindlessly buying it. This is one of the most offline/sim-orientated football gaming forums around and I just despair when I see so many even at this end of the spectrum buying it. Like how much do EA have to fuck up to put some people off, it seems impossible.

 

[Madmac79]

Yeah, we aren't nearly enough to make a a true difference. No idea how Madden does have a so large community that stands for quality while we on the other hand have to fight even for tweets about single player to have more than ten likes, but it is what is. If there somebody knows a way to change this I'm all ears.

 

[Chris Davies]

Video is gone

He forgot to watermark it so nobody else could steal it. It'll be back up in a different place later on. Not that I'd recommend looking out for it.

 

[papinho81]

Yeah, we aren't nearly enough to make a a true difference. No idea how Madden does have a so large community that stands for quality while we on the other hand have to fight even for tweets about single player to have more than ten likes, but it is what is. If there somebody knows a way to change this I'm all ears.

May be it is a problem linked to the age of the main cohort of FIFA gamers. I assume they are mostly teenagers and they are lilekely more sensitive to arcadish elements (crazy dribbles ect) than the more sim elements. Does Madden players are older in average?

Probably not the best source:

 

[Mathgamer]

Gameplays (UT )

 

[Matt10]

In the same way that MUT isn't judged by offline players, why are we judging FUT gameplay? Madden players biggest issue was franchise concerns - and lack of innovation there. It's rightfully the case. The gameplay has actually been the best it's been for the last couple of years. It definitely has core issues, which does mean sliders have to play a role. I know it's not popular to say the word sliders on here - but content creators do look at that in the Madden community.

 

[rojofa]

The shitty scripted gameplay reliant on canned animations, clipping, lack of physics, bad AI etc in single player is a regular topic for Madden content creators, not just MUT gameplay.


Probably hundreds of gameplay related videos on this channel alone.

 

[Topaz]

Are football fans just naturally that much more stupid than NFL fans then? Football is a way more popular and global sport, there must surely be a comparable or greater number of simulation minded players who think modern FIFA is awful even if we get drowned out at the moment. Probably doesn't help we're split between many languages and countries so things can't go trending so easily.

Madden has content creators regularly pointing out broken gameplay mechanics, missing features, unrealistic passages of play etc. Gradually these channels built momentum until they're now able to influence Twitter like that. Does FIFA even have any similar people? It seems like we all just sit back and accept whatever EA throws at us because football. Maybe moaning on here about it throughout the year after buying it (I didn't buy one since 17 btw, and regretted that one).

Just because it seems like we can't force immediate change, doesn't mean we have to add to the problem by mindlessly buying it. This is one of the most offline/sim-orientated football gaming forums around and I just despair when I see so many even at this end of the spectrum buying it. Like how much do EA have to fuck up to put some people off, it seems impossible.

I think the bad youtube culture has ruined FIFA. Ever since KSI and others have started doing skills compilations and treating FIFA like an extreme arcade game with pokemon cards, it has ruined everything. Then skills and arcade features became a meta in FIFA online which was transferred to the offline cause FIFA is too lazy to make two separate games. Hence this is what we have now. FIFA is it's own sport. It's nothing like football because that's what the initial youtubers and their fanbase treated it like.

 

[Matt10]

The shitty scripted gameplay reliant on canned animations, lack of physics, bad AI etc in single player is a regular topic for Madden content creators, not just MUT gameplay.


Probably hundreds of gameplay related videos on this channel alone.

If you're in the Madden community, you'll know how the majority feel about Moody and his channel. I'm game for anyone who wants to constructively help games, but not those who just out to exploit poor programming left and right - then laugh at it. It's easy content creation and basically lazy. I could have 20k subs if I just bashed games the whole time, but I don't.

 

[Matt10]

I think the bad youtube culture has ruined FIFA. Ever since KSI and others have started doing skills compilations and treating FIFA like an extreme arcade game with pokemon cards, it has ruined everything. Then skills and arcade features became a meta in FIFA online which was transferred to the offline cause FIFA is too lazy to make two separate games. Hence this is what we have now. FIFA is it's own sport. It's nothing like football because that's what the initial youtubers and their fanbase treated it like.

This is true, but let's just assume that is the case now. This is the reality of what we have. I know some hate to accept it - but it is. Furthermore, something that EA won't get credit for doing is the fact they've given you the option to turn off those stupid features such as contextual dribbling, comp mode (where all the skillz happen), auto headers, etc. They could've easily left it all on, but they didn't. I'm not defending that they are there in the first place - but at least there are options to avoid them.

 

[rojofa]

If you're in the Madden community, you'll know how the majority feel about Moody and his channel. I'm game for anyone who wants to constructively help games, but not those who just out to exploit poor programming left and right - then laugh at it. It's easy content creation and basically lazy. I could have 20k subs if I just bashed games the whole time, but I don't.

It's not just mindless bashing though - it's pointing out poor game design, bad AI, broken/barebones game modes, archaic gameplay with no physics, EA bullshit statements etc.

Even knowing nothing about Madden or it's community, just watching these videos I see tons of direct parallels to the state FIFA is in, gameplay-wise and the direction EA is taking the product. The reason he has so much content bashing the game and EA is because there's tons there to legitimately bash. If EA made an actual great game he wouldn't be able make half the content he does in this style. He doesn't come across as lazy to me, what he's saying is demonstrably true in the footage and fixing what he points out would only result in a better, more realistic game. If sections of the community don't like him for that then they're stupid and voluntarily just being EA's lapdogs.

Not everyone is like you where they're satisfied with an absolutely garbage base game that's lacked innovation for almost a decade as long as EA sweet talk a bit in patch notes and you can fiddle with a few sliders. Having said that, unfortunately too many people probably are satisfied with that for us to ever get decent sports games.

 

[Matt10]

It's not just mindless bashing though - it's pointing out poor game design, bad AI, broken/barebones game modes, archaic gameplay with no physics, EA bullshit statements etc.

Even knowing nothing about Madden or it's community, just watching these videos I see tons of direct parallels to the state FIFA is in, gameplay-wise and the direction EA is taking the product. The reason he has so much content bashing the game and EA is because there's tons there to legitimately bash. If EA made an actual great game he wouldn't be able make half the content he does in this style. He doesn't come across as lazy to me, what he's saying is demonstrably true in the footage and fixing what he points out would only result in a better, more realistic game. If sections of the community don't like him for that then they're stupid and voluntarily just being EA's lapdogs.

Not everyone is like you where they're satisfied with absolute garbage as long as EA sweet talk a bit in patch notes and you can fiddle with a few sliders.

Do you know how many posts Moody has on EA's answer forums? A place where EA devs actually interact? When Operation sports had devs take part in the forums actively and openly - do you think he was anywhere to be found? Anywhere where he helps other posters or users to find solutions? Anywhere else where he tweets directly on not just exploiting programming issues but solutions? None.

I'm not satisfied, I'm just not going on a tirade of bashing. I literally just posted to EA's twitter about DB coverage issue that is plaguing the game. So don't make this about me before you know what you're even talking about. I've given my fair share of feedback to both Konami and EA through my channel and tweets. I've done it constructively, and didn't ride any kind of hate bandwagon. I did this while also finding the solutions of what tools I was given. Just because I use those tools doesn't mean I'm content.

You see parallel's and that's great. It's not a hard one to find in the first place. It's been like that for a long time. The issue that this whole conversation started was regarding gameplay, and the fact the matter is, the Madden community isn't upset about gameplay - they're upset about the lack of franchise innovation, which is something FIFA is actually working on.

 

[rojofa]

Do you know how many posts Moody has on EA's answer forums? A place where EA devs actually interact? When Operation sports had devs take part in the forums actively and openly - do you think he was anywhere to be found? Anywhere where he helps other posters or users to find solutions? Anywhere else where he tweets directly on not just exploiting programming issues but solutions? None.

I'm not satisfied, I'm just not going on a tirade of bashing. I literally just posted to EA's twitter about DB coverage issue that is plaguing the game. So don't make this about me before you know what you're even talking about. I've given my fair share of feedback to both Konami and EA through my channel and tweets. I've done it constructively, and didn't ride any kind of hate bandwagon. I did this while also finding the solutions of what tools I was given. Just because I use those tools doesn't mean I'm content.

You see parallel's and that's great. It's not a hard one to find in the first place. It's been like that for a long time. The issue that this whole conversation started was regarding gameplay, and the fact the matter is, the Madden community isn't upset about gameplay - they're upset about the lack of franchise innovation, which is something FIFA is actually working on.

Who cares where the feedback goes, whether it's in official EA channels, Operation Sports, Twitter posts or Youtube videos - EA could watch Youtube videos, I'm sure they're well aware of his videos. Just because he doesn't write 5,000 words explaining them it doesn't mean he's not being constructive. He uploads clear examples of broken gameplay explaining what's wrong. It's up to EA to find the solutions. I'm yet to watch one of his videos where the comments made seem unjustified.

The game looks like it deserves a "tirade of bashing" in the state it's in and I struggle to see why offline players would be satisfied with that gameplay. Zero innovation with the lack of physics and amount of canned animation, the glitches and scripted situations it causes (when Backbreaker showed a glimpse of what was possible in fucking 2009!). If that's the gameplay standards most franchise Madden players have, then good for them I suppose, at least they enjoy it. Clearly enough don't for channels like Moody's and SoftDrink's to have such a following, and neither are solely complaining about franchise features, it's mostly about the gameplay. Even if the gameplay was fine, they still have legitimate reasons to complain this much when franchise mode was so much deeper on the PS2 generation in Madden 05 and NFL 2K5.

This isn't mindless lazy bashing, look at these examples, there's like 10 years between these games and Madden is still so technically inferior and less ambitious despite the astronomical budget they have in comparison. Most of what he points out isn't even stuff you could fix with sliders or EA making incremental changes in patches or yearly releases, it's fundamental design choices and lack of innovation, same as the problems in FIFA. Chasing developers down in forums and giving feedback on tiny little details seems pointless when the game is so fundamentally unrealistic and unambitious.

 

[Matt10]

Who cares where the feedback goes, whether it's in official EA channels, Operation Sports, Twitter posts or Youtube videos - EA could watch Youtube videos, I'm sure they're well aware of his videos. Just because he doesn't write 5,000 words explaining them it doesn't mean he's not being constructive. He uploads clear examples of broken gameplay explaining what's wrong. It's up to EA to find the solutions. I'm yet to watch one of his videos where the comments made seem unjustified.

The game looks like it deserves a "tirade of bashing" in the state it's in and I struggle to see why offline players would be satisfied with that gameplay. Zero innovation with the lack of physics and amount of canned animation, the glitches and scripted situations it causes (when Backbreaker showed a glimpse of what was possible in fucking 2009!). If that's the gameplay standards most franchise Madden players have, then good for them I suppose, at least they enjoy it. Clearly enough don't for channels like Moody's and SoftDrink's to have such a following, and neither are solely complaining about franchise features, it's mostly about the gameplay. Even if the gameplay was fine, they still have legitimate reasons to complain this much when franchise mode was so much deeper on the PS2 generation in Madden 05 and NFL 2K5.

This isn't mindless lazy bashing, look at these examples, there's like 10 years between these games and Madden is still so technically inferior and less ambitious despite the astronomical budget they have in comparison. Most of what he points out isn't even stuff you could fix with sliders or EA making incremental changes in patches or yearly releases, it's fundamental design choices and lack of innovation, same as the problems in FIFA. Chasing developers down in forums and giving feedback on tiny little details seems pointless when the game is so fundamentally unrealistic and unambitious.

I don't want this to get off-topic, but I'll give you my thoughts on where I think you're going.

Yes, you're right, he doesn't have to be an active part of the community. Unfortunately, if he wants his voice heard - and his observations felt - there was a time and a place to do so. Guess what? He did it. He was big driver of the community 5 years ago. I know because I subscribed to him for quite a while. The Ryan Moody then is different than how he is now. However, that team of when Moody was in his prime consisted of a Madden team that was ambitious and open in communication. The problem is he still bashes Madden even though devs that openly spoke with him, like Clint, are still there. Every single one of his videos are clickbait titles now. Look at how they were 6-7 years ago.

He stopped being constructive, man. You want to defend how he was, versus how he is, that's a problem. He was banned from OS because he changed - and he voiced it. Like I said, I was subscribed and actually loved how he explained things too. He did use 5000+ words to get his message across as well. He was a big part of the community - and then he bailed. He turned around and bashed everything related to Madden in sight.

Sorry, but it's a sore subject because I was a big believe of his approach and defended him a lot. Much like how you are now.

The irony of the videos you posted is that those issues were fixed with sliders. I'm sorry, but that's what happened differently when Moody went the route he did. We had to figure things out and find solutions to the problems he addressed. The first video you posted? That's in M21, it was in M20 even though the video says it isn't. It was a simple adjustment of lowering tackle value. Now it's variations of animations in M21 where the ball carrier reaches for the first down and the goal-line.

I understand there are base issues with both Madden and FIFA, but there are so many levels that we as consumers have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. We just sit here and assume - coming up with simple solutions because it's easy to not be accountable to the reality of what actually exists. Moody used to understand that, and he was diplomatic about how he went about it, well connected and was even invited to Tiburon. He chose to go the other route, and if you want to support that type of mentality - then that's up to you. What he realized is that by going that route is he left us further behind and in the dust - compared to where we could at least have had open communications for the last 3 years.

I just went through this with the closed FIFA beta. This mentality that it's US vs EA. The guys who thought like this were in legit discussion among community members and held accountable to what they said. The biggest issue with FIFA and Madden is the community's feedback that goes after bashing and namecalling, followed by viral memes that skew and leave out context. The context is that both games are built for 3 sets of users, a Casual user, an Online MUT/FUT user and a Sim user.

I'm a Sim user. From day one, of any sports game, I have had to accept the game isn't built for me. Why in the world should I be surprised that it still isn't? I'm not. I've accepted what it is, and each year I'll make due with what's given. There is a very happy crowd of sim users like me that are part of Madden community. We know what it was like back in the Madden 11's and 13's and 18's. Things got better in 19, not great, but 20 took the right steps, and 21 honestly is one of the best. You don't have to take my word for it, but you do need to understand the context of what I'm speaking towards as my perspective is from a sim user. There are still some obvious issues, bugs, which have been noted to be addressed in the upcoming patches. For that, we'll wait and continue to dig in.

For FIFA, I know I'm cautiously optimistic, despite playing a beta that I think is by far one of the best in terms of gameplay variety - but that's me playing sim in 10 minute halves, and turning off all those arcade like features. My biggest scare is the community though. I'm terrified that more players are going to think that an out of context clip is going to make the decision for them and then they go and support out of context memes to bash the game.

So I'll stay in my little lane, focused on problem solving and enjoy the version that I have. If there's 100% nothing I can do to improve it, then I'll become active and start pushing. I'll share my findings and if they help, so be it - if they don't, that's fine too. It's been my mentality since day one, and guys like Ryan Moody used to be of that same thought process which is why a large group of us gravitated towards him.

 

[manmachine]

So I'll stay in my little lane, focused on problem solving and enjoy the version that I have. If there's 100% nothing I can do to improve it, then I'll become active and start pushing. I'll share my findings and if they help, so be it - if they don't, that's fine too.

The only problem is that this was a great productive approach until fifa 17. The game was mostly football and you could ignore the 'street football elements'/stupid tricks and tweak the game somewhat effectively.

Then 18 happened. This was the first time the AI regressed badly. You could do a simple step over and the AI would freeze in place. There is no option fixing that. Then the new rigid tactical system happened and then 1v1s. The point is, there's no option or slider set that would make 18/19/20 a football game worth playing for me. And the offline AI is no longer fit for purpose. 10 players not defending with bad positioning is not something you can just tweak. It's something that should never exist outside of their "competitive" mode, but they forgot that option. To play the game offline we need competent AI & a bunch of sane tactics as a bare minimum. Then we can talk about tweaking the rest (passing, speed, etc).

For FIFA, I know I'm cautiously optimistic, despite playing a beta that I think is by far one of the best in terms of gameplay variety - but that's me playing sim in 10 minute halves, and turning off all those arcade like features. My biggest scare is the community though. I'm terrified that more players are going to think that an out of context clip is going to make the decision for them and then they go and support out of context memes to bash the game.

Can't speak for others, but my negativity is not based on some out of context fut footage, but on how bad I think the game is, since fifa 18. Not seeing anything so far that makes me think "yeah, this game changed direction!". I'll still play the demo with an open mind. Maybe there is a magical setting that transforms this into a football game, but what we've seen so far has been consistently terrible. EA controls the narrative and what footage we're shown, it's only fair to talk about it and say what we think about it. And it's not like Fifa 20 was crap online but great offline, was it?

Just tell me there is a proper midfield and some kind of build up and you'll get my hopes up a bit. Because I can't imagine playing this end to end stuff with 10 minute halves just because I can turn off agile dribbling. 😇

 

[rojofa]

The irony of the videos you posted is that those issues were fixed with sliders.

No.

If you're going to say something like this, I'm not interested in anything else you have to say about sports simulations.

You don't change the technology driving the gameplay with sliders. Backbreaker used Euphoria which meant tackling was fully physics based, and animations dynamic/uncanned. Simply from a few minutes of gameplay, even not from the channel of this guy you hate, I can clearly see the Madden 21 gameplay is heavily dependant on canned animations. Sliders making specific situations turn out differently won't change that. They're not hiding fully physics based gameplay behind a slider, thats not how it works at all.

I'm done with this conversation.

 

[WEtongelre]

Seriously zero interest in FIFA for curreSeriously zero interest in FIFA for current gen. I don't want to hype myself, but I really want to enjoy FIFA on next-gen from the begin of December.

 

[Emroth]

Have to agree with @rojofa
No sliders can change fundamental issues in Fifa. Like free kicks or your team being somewhat... alive.
I appreciate what you're doing for community, Matt, but to me it looks like this:
Fifa without sliders:

Fifa with sliders:

 

[manmachine]

Just watched another game on youtube that finished only 8-5. Keep in mind that with 6 minute halves that's more than 1 goal/minute.

He even scored a scorpion kick and commented "I wasn't even trying to score that goal". Maybe they added all the worse aspects of 19 as well. It seems first time volleys and bicycle kicks are back in case you missed them!

Youtubers are trying so hard to focus on how fun/spectacular the goals are and force a fake smile. You can easily tell how 99% of game changers are basically salesmen and how the game changers program is just a marketing ploy, it's really hilarious.

 

[fernadez]

Agree with @rojofa. If certain core fundamentals are programmed out of the game then no about of slidering is going to fix them. I've tried and seen others over the years put in so much time and effort.

CPU not playing long balls, CDM bursting forward, FB tucking in, Midfielders not tracking runners, Defenders not tracking runners, CF dropping stupidly deep, no fouls, all the way to the current situation we have no where none of your teammates will do anything defensively unless you're controlling them. In previous years I've been disappointed in the game but this is the first year where I'm actually angry. Anyone who tries to teammate contain on Tactical and doesn't think the game is broken is a madman. The fact that there is a game mode to boost the stats to UT levels and that is the only way to get an semblance of team play is a joke,

 

[fernadez]

West Ham have the ball, I'm controlling Sissoko trying to keep shape.

My other centre midfielder does nothing, not track the guy next to him or drop off to get the guy in front of the back 4. My defence don't squeeze on him either. Then both decide to go to the same man.

Winks then comes alive but to the ball, letting in 3rd man run. In the space of 2 seconds I've gone from good shape to complete disarray. My LB has been scratching his arse the whole time this has been happening.

This is on Legendary

 

[fernadez]

Take your pick.

180 spin and pass or if you prefer revel in the CPU controlled RW (Lucas) just casually running away from then stopping dead as the opposition dribble straight at him.

 

[WEtongelre]

No interest in FIFA current gen at all. Hopefully we get next-gen info soon.

 

[StrangelyEnough]

I’ve been reading this forum for over ten years although I’ve only been a member for one..

One constant in all those years is the same people complain every year about FIFA.I don’t remember any one year where those same said people have actually really liked much about any iteration.

It’s anti-football,totally unrealistic,doesn’t represent real football etc..

Sometimes I wonder if anyone on here actually used to play football games back in the day..

Is it really that bad?..unrealistic?..What really defines a football game as a simulation(because I don’t remember that being set in stone or any football game being defined as the gold standard or a perfect simulation)..By definition anything replicating something is a simulation.

Everything’s voiced so angrily now,it’s all a conspiracy against the hardcore gamer and how the big two our going out of there way to dilute and destroy the very fabric of football gaming..

In many ways there actually better now..Progress is being made and there has been a lot of innovation.

People torture themselves every year,they spend weeks/months tweaking sliders to get the game to play just how they want(and I enthusias what they want).

Im all for making something better,feedback to improve a product and genuine innovative ideas that can in real terms be applied and coded into a product..

I’m 45..I’ve played every ISS,PES and just about every FIFA since 09..

Imo I think a lot of you guys our just burnt out from years of playing football games,you want something that’s never going to happen because you’ve created a game in your heads that’s never going to exist..

Think what these games play like for a young person playing for the first time.Much how FIFA and PES played for you the first time..I just don’t buy the perception that both games our awful..So much rose tinted nostalgia and this idea that everything was so much better once.

You know what the most ironic thing is imo..The reality that a lot of so-called hardcore use assisted settings both on pes and fifa..You want simulation,yet you want assistance and a game that can be also enjoyed by non-skilled gamers and newcomers.Both games play very differently unassisted.

Its sad..There’s genuine critique and just plain self entitlement and this is so indicative of gaming as a whole now!..

 

[manmachine]

Imo I think a lot of you guys our just burnt out from years of playing football games,you want something that’s never going to happen because you’ve created a game in your heads that’s never going to exist..

We had AI that defended in fifa or didn't completely ignore the ball in pes a couple of years ago, it was not just in our heads.

 

[fernadez]

In response to that and as previously stated, The game does do some things ridiculously well, which is aprt of what makes me so forceful about the poor defensive side of the game.

I shared this with @Chris Davies a while back and it's something I've never experience in a football game before.


The press from City is sooo good, realistic, mad me go backwards and sideways and take my time progressing up the pitch. I genuinely had to concentrate and think about what I was doing. For me that is football. The attacking side of the game is fine, the CPU attacking and defending is fine, it's the fact that defending for the Human player against the CPU or another human is fucked (the game wants you to defend in a certain way that in no way resembles football).

That's nothing to do with nostalgia, old age or anything. They are design choices to make the game high scoring and 'exciting'.

 

[rojofa]

In many ways there actually better now..Progress is being made and there has been a lot of innovation.

FIFA 12 "Impact Engine" is the last proper innovation I can remember, everything since then has been gradual iterations (and regressions) on the same thing, usually just adding more canned animations and gimmicks (timed shooting etc.).

Think what these games play like for a young person playing for the first time.Much how FIFA and PES played for you the first time..I just don’t buy the perception that both games our awful..So much rose tinted nostalgia and this idea that everything was so much better once.

When I was growing up playing football games, you bought the game and that was it. Building your dream team was done in ML/Manager modes was just about signing/developing the best players through the game modes, creating your mates to put in your team etc and playing local co-op ML... Now kids of that age or younger are having FUT and competitive online play shoved in their face from the moment they open the game or watch popular channels on Youtube/Twitch.

When they want to similarly build a dream team like I did at that age it's not just to have fun in a ML campaign, it's to win in competitive online play, and they have gambling introduced to them to facilitate it. It's disgusting really that we accept this or even just look the other way to play other modes. It has nothing to do with nostalgia to think this is a worse experience as someone's first football game compared to the older games we played. Who knows if I had UT constantly in my face growing up I wouldn't have become addicted to opening packs or something, it's exploiting children/addicts and harming so many people financially and mentally.

@fernadez - Your last 2 videos are set to private .

 

[StrangelyEnough]

We had AI that defended in fifa or didn't completely ignore the ball in pes a couple of years ago, it was not just in our heads.

The AI defends in both pes20 and fifa20..There’s issues of players freezing in pes20 but it’s not constant.Some of its due to optimisation or lack of it..Other time’s it’s deliberate to create goals for the cpu and balance the score line(scripting).I don’t like it.

Im not blind to what they’ve done in FIFA but it’s not game breaking and I actually prefer defending like that..Room for improvement but it works..I don’t think you have to be quick with your fingers..Just to be slightly ahead in your head and seeing potential dangers not always directly covering the player but the space he may use with the ball or move his body into.Of course you get blind sided sometimes or caught static and flat footed..

Before in FIFA the defence were like robots..Now defenders get pulled out of position by the movement of the rest of the team.I understand people’s frustrations when youve got someone with assistance pumped up pinging it around the box.But let’s be honest,defending has been Woefully neglected in football games for years and has been to overpowered.

 

[fernadez]

The AI defends in both pes20 and fifa20..There’s issues of players freezing in pes20 but it’s not constant.Some of its due to optimisation or lack of it..Other time’s it’s deliberate to create goals for the cpu and balance the score line(scripting).I don’t like it.

Im not blind to what they’ve done in FIFA but it’s not game breaking and I actually prefer defending like that..Room for improvement but it works..I don’t think you have to be quick with your fingers..Just to be slightly ahead in your head and seeing potential dangers not always directly covering the player but the space he may use with the ball or move his body into.Of course you get blind sided sometimes or caught static and flat footed..

Before in FIFA the defence were like robots..Now defenders get pulled out of position by the movement of the rest of the team.I understand people’s frustrations when youve got someone with assistance pumped up pinging it around the box.But let’s be honest,defending has been Woefully neglected in football games for years and has been to overpowered.

Have you watched the 2 videos I posted? The defending in them is nothing to do with the movement of the attacks it's just broken.

 

[manmachine]

Before in FIFA the defence were like robots..Now defenders get pulled out of position by the movement of the rest of the team.I understand people’s frustrations when youve got someone with assistance pumped up pinging it around the box.But let’s be honest,defending has been Woefully neglected in football games for years and has been to overpowered.

Well by definition, and unfortunately for EA/Konami, football is 11v11 and you can only control 1 player any given time. The old games got the right idea: The other 10 move around controlled by AI trying to play the game normally. Now we're told that they shouldn't intercept/block/tackle/mark unless under direct control. You might like it and that's great. In practice it's not fun, it doesn't look or feel anything like football. Can't believe I have to make the case for AI in a team sport game.

And you could pull players out of position just fine in older games and it was satisfying to do so because it was the result of something you did. Now that their default state = brain dead and they're out of position half the time by themselves there's also no joy to be had scoring. Just look at the ridiculous score lines we're seeing.