ITALY thread

[bebo]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

I hate the fact the last match will be played simultaneously . Italy should go through the fact that Ireland will be a wounded animal and won`t defend as much(parking the bus ) Mario should bury a few.

 

[*aLe]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

yep. then again even 8 years ago i didn't expect sweden and denmark to put on that pathetic show..... and yet we all saw how it went.
look, there's nothing we can do about it, we only have to do our job against ireland, and hope spain and croatia will play fair. and even if they don't and we go out, i will still be satisfied with what i saw from italy in this torunament.
back in 2004 i was one of the few italians who weren't mad at sweden and denmark for their fixed 2-2. i though we were to blame for that, because we put sweden and denmark in the position to cheat and kick us out of the tourament. had we done our job against sweden and denmark we wouldn't have had to worry about them cheating their way to the quarter-finals... but we didn't, so we deserved to be out.

Yep. In 2004 we played way worse than in these 2 matches.
I don't really think it's going to happen again to be honest. I was positive in 2004, I thought "no way a case of blatant match fixing would happen in an European Cup, come on", still it happened.
On the other hand, in 2008, I was expecting Van Basten to rest half of his starting 11 for the game against Romania (Holland was already qualified) and I was prepared to go out, even with a victory against France.
I agree it could not be seen as match-fixing, but I thought "Holland for sure won't battle as they won't risk injuries/cards for something they already have achieved".

Still, a non-motivated Holland got rid of Romania and we got through. I absolutely loved that moment, it kind of showed me that there's still room for good things in football.

Now I don't really think that Spain and Croatia are going to fix the match, honestly.
And even if they did...THIS is the thought of Buffon about match-fixing:
http://www.gazzetta.it/Europei/2012...ente-paternali-giornalisti-911385609828.shtml

For the ones who don't understand Italian, he says something like "There are matches, near the end of the season, in which for both teams a draw is enough to avoid relegation. So what do you expect? Otherwise who's gonna explain the fans that you got relegated?"


Even our captain talks about these "fixed" draws as a common thing in football, so I wouldn't really either be surprised or angry if it's the case.
Still I believe it's not, or at least I hope it.

 

[PLF]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

Croatia and Spain fixing a match is ridiculous. Typical Italian controversy. When Italians get knocked out, very few usually believe it's because they weren't good enough, but it's almost always because they were somehow 'victims' and undone by other 'evil' people or unfortunate circumstances.

And wouldn't Croatia and Spain both want to finish 1st in group so they get a weaker team in Quarter finals? They would.

About Giovinco, poor kid had no chance along with Di Natale. They both came on too late for a useless and tired Cassano who also missed a great chance.

Balotelli was better yesterday and I liked what I saw. I'd pair him up with Di Natale and bring on Giovinco/Borini as sub.

Giovinco IS the shortest player in the tournament and I wouldn't be surprised if Giacherini is the 2nd shortest player. Of all the things I don't like Prandelli is doing (and I still like MOST of what he's done and love the man), the fact that Balzaretti isn't the left-wing back is the most shocking!

Also as a neutral Ben, I'm not that scared of Italy. I'm way more scared of Germany and Spain and I'd also say Russia, Croatia and France are scarier teams. Italy is a good team, but hardly the 3rd most menacing.

Finally, I'm surprised no one mentioned this but Italy had not one but TWO VERY Close off-side decisions against them which could've EASILY been given on-side (Di Natale in 2nd half), and turned into goals for Azzuri. But ref gave off-side even though attacker was level with defender and if anything the benefit should go to forwards.

So with a little more luck, Italy could've beaten Croatia. I still think Croatia is a better team than THIS Italy playing THIS formation and with the injuries/lack of preparation though. That's why I bet on them to finish 2nd before tournament started. Of course Italy can still finish 1st but I do think they'll have a tougher time against Ireland than Croatia and Spain did. We shall see...

It should also be mentioned that while the goal conceded was Chiellini's fault, he was GREAT otherwise and rock solid throughout the match. Unfortunatley one mistake, and the hard working Mandzukic scored.

 

[lo zio]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

Yep. In 2004 we played way worse than in these 2 matches.
I don't really think it's going to happen again to be honest. I was positive in 2004, I thought "no way a case of blatant match fixing would happen in an European Cup, come on", still it happened.

yep, i remember at the time i also thought the mere idea was just preposterous.....

Croatia and Spain fixing a match is ridiculous. Typical Italian controversy. When Italians get knocked out, very few usually believe it's because they weren't good enough, but it's almost always because they were somehow 'victims' and undone by other 'evil' people or unfortunate circumstances.

what u say about us italian being a bunch of cry-babies is absolutely true. it's quite a common habit even outside italy to be honest, but to be even more honest, it's a much more common habit among italians....
... and yes the mere idea of spain and croatia "arranging" a convenient 2-2 draw is absolutely ridiculous... but u also gotta see the whole thing from our perspective. we've already been in this situation, we thought it wouldn't have happened, and yet it did.... so it is quite a disturbing feeling to find ourselves in the exact same situation again.... and it kinda wakes up some old ghosts from the past. it's not a rational thing, it's more of a Pavlovian reflex, if u know what i mean (silly, but understandable, given the circumstances)

Finally, I'm surprised no one mentioned this but Italy had not one but TWO VERY Close off-side decisions against them which could've EASILY been given on-side (Di Natale in 2nd half), and turned into goals for Azzuri.

yeah, it is weird that no one mentioned it, isn't it? also, know that i think about it, it kinda messes up your theory about italians being bad losers, doesn't it?
i'm just messing with u here bro, i entirely agree with u about our weird persecution complex

Also as a neutral Ben, I'm not that scared of Italy. I'm way more scared of Germany and Spain and I'd also say Russia, Croatia and France are scarier teams. Italy is a good team, but hardly the 3rd most menacing.

really? that's surprising actually. i mean no doubts about germany and spain and perhaps russia (i completely forgot about them.... although i believe if we were to play each other today, it would be a completely different story than it was 3 weeks ago)... but france and croatia? i would have agreed with u about france till 1 weeek ago, but after seeing us playing, i kinda changed my mind to be honest.
and as for croatia, i really didn't find them to be dangerous at all against us. if we would replay the match tomorrow i wouldn't bet a single cent on a croatian win, nor on another draw (but then again, i think it's already been established that i'm not good at betting ).... i really think we pretty much outclassed them yesterday, but i guess even that is a debeatable point, and i'm probably in no position to express an objective opinion about it.

Giovinco IS the shortest player in the tournament and I wouldn't be surprised if Giacherini is the 2nd shortest player. Of all the things I don't like Prandelli is doing (and I still like MOST of what he's done and love the man), the fact that Balzaretti isn't the left-wing back is the most shocking!

yep, it is really weird indeed. but u gotta keep in mind prandelli never quite liked balzaretti (not sure why). during his tenure in firenze, prandelli signed balza from juventus, only to relegate him to the bench in favour of.... pasqual
i remember i was quite confused at that time, coz up until the previous year balzaretti had been stunning in torino (he was one of capello's favourites).... and even once he left firenze for palermo, his awesomeness only increased. i guess some love stories are just not meant to be.

as for giovinco, cool to know he actually is the shortest. do u also happen to know how tall he is exactly?

 

[PLF]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

Isn't he 5"4 inches tall?

He's not just a 'short' guy. He's a midget!

An incredibly talented midget!

I see your point Ben and agree with much of what you say. But yeah I definitely think France is better than Italy and I don't think you can really separate Italy & Croatia. They seem to be on the same level and if anything, I'd give slight edge overall to Croatians to go further and do something. Your past results against them (although those Italian teams have nothing to do with Prandelli's) speaks volume about the little rivalry there as well.

Modric didn't play very well yesterday (somewhat anonymous) while Pirlo was great! But usually that wouldn't be the case. I think if Italy and Croatia play 10 times, you can expect either team to win 3 and 4 matches will be drawn but that's just my opinion.

 

[lo zio]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

LOL 5,4?!? that's what 1.60 meters?! jesus he's as tall as 12 years old kid!

Modric didn't play very well yesterday (somewhat anonymous) while Pirlo was great! But usually that wouldn't be the case. I think if Italy and Croatia play 10 times, you can expect either team to win 3 and 4 matches will be drawn but that's just my opinion.

and i certainly value your opinion more than mine, given your neutral position. i'm not sure there is a rivalry between italy and croatia though... or at least i've never heard of it.
also i'm not so sure pirlo is playing so well, to be honest. he's been decisive, no doubt about it, but considering his overall performances, i'd actually say he's been slightly below average, compared to his matches with juve. then again it is unfair to compare his performances with his club and national team, as he playes with his juve teammates on a regular basis (wich can't be said about his national team). still i wouldn't say he's been particulary brilliant or great, but i don't know, maybe i'm wrong.

 

[PLF]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

I think Pirlo's done very well bro.

I mean he's still not the Pirlo of old and age takes its toll on everyone. He has had better performances for Juve this year but all in all, he's still running everything in the Italian team.

Yesterday, I noticed he misplaced his FIRST pass of the game in 57th minute! lol, that's crazy! He had some great through balls which Cassano and co didn't take advantage of. Also remember goal against Spain, his change of pace and then brilliant pass.

And take away his individual brilliance yesterday (The free kick goal) and would Italy have even been leading 1-0?

He's definitely been one of your best players.

As for rivalry, there is no rivalry between Italy and Croatia. I just meant, when these two teams face each other, usually either Croatia wins or it's a draw. I meant head-to-head matchups, I shouldn't have used the word 'rivalry'.

So I'd say while Pirlo was directly involved in yesterday's game and as good as expected, Modric had a fairly quiet game by his high standards. I think these two teams are pretty well matched up. Anyway let's see how the Italians do against Trappatoni and the Irish. Like I said, I have a feeling they won't have as easy of a time as Croatia and Spain did with them.

Keep in mind Croatia beat them 3-1 but other than that free kick goal which in my opinion should've never been a free kick in 1st place, they would've beaten them 3-0.

I think 5 foot 4 inches is like 162cm or something like that which is how tall Giovinco is. Yes a 12 year old.

 

[Zeem]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

According to Prandelli, he is gonna make almost 4 changes. Balzaretti will surely get his chance.

How epic was Giovinco against Schildenfeld? Giovinco is short but he is one of the most technically gifted players in the world. Funny thing is that he is only 4 cm shorter than Messi but appears much shorter due to his skinnier frame.

 

[Kanouté]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

@ Ibra's expression

 

[*aLe]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

Croatia and Spain fixing a match is ridiculous. Typical Italian controversy. When Italians get knocked out, very few usually believe it's because they weren't good enough, but it's almost always because they were somehow 'victims' and undone by other 'evil' people or unfortunate circumstances.

Well, I for one don't believe it's going to be fixed (even if I've seen lots of people here already thinking so). Sorry if I sounded like I did.

First of all, we'll have to defeat Ireland (I know we should easily be able to do it, but... Will we?) and then we'll just have to rely on the other match.
The same that happened in 2008 (and we got through) and the same that happened in 2004 (and we got home).

Well, at least Sweden and Denmark couldn't harm this time as they are both already out

On the other hand... UEFA look like trolling us too:

http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2012/06/18/eurocopa/1340028584_249460.html

 

[Milanista]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

WOOOOOOOOOO. Thought Pirlo had his worst game in a while. Plenty of mistakes and lapses in concentration. Thought Abate, Motta, De Rossi and Marchisio were immense.

 

[Baxter]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

Why did Balzaretti play zero minutes until today?
Him and Maggio are among the best pair of sidebacks of Europe, it will be a pleasure to see them attack since they act also as wingers sometimes.

 

[Dominic]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

Formation was a mess

 

[gomito#10]

Why is diamanté getting in over gio

 

[Zeem]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

That was like a boring Ibra-less Milan. Pirlo was really bad but that reminded me of his Milan days. No off ball movement besides Balzaretti and Pirlo gets lost.

What worries the most is how the second half performances in the three games have been consistently bad.

 

[Dominic]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

Italy had too many midfielders out there of a similar mould. They only got in eachothers way, while limiting the overall play. None of the midfielders had anywhere to go or anyone to pass to, except to another midfielder who was barely a meter away.

 

[Zeem]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

And who was Balotelli targeting the words to when he scored? The nerve of this guy not celebrating an international goal.

 

[Milanista]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

Apparently to the Irish fans who were jeering him when he was coming on.

 

[lo zio]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

that was absolutely horrible. arguably italy's worst performance in an official match since prandelli took over. just awful. it almost looks like we adjust our football to our opponents. we played brilliantly against spain, then we played well against croatia and then we didn't play at all against ireland. u know what sort of teams do this? weak teams, teams with no personality. also apparently once we score we get complacent and slow down (as if a 1 goal lead was a confortable lead). again, this is what losers do. i don't like this. i don't like it one bit.

we have one advantage over our opponents, and that advantage is our 1st touch passing game. we've seen how good our 1st touch passing game is against spain and croatia. against spain, up until the 75th minute (when we got exhausted) we were even more dangerous than spain. and against croatia, up until the 60th minute we kept playing 1st-2nd touch football wich allowed us to confortably dictate the plot of the game and to keep croatia absolutely harmless. as long as we stick to our football, we can take on anyone (and i really mean it).
but as soon as we stop playing our football, we lose our ONLY competitive edge. our attack is toothless, our defense is good but it isn't nearly as good as it used to be (and it's certainly not the best defense in this tournament). we NEED to play good football in order to deliver. otherwise EVERYONE can beat us (sure we did win yesterday, but really that irish team is unbelievably poor).
we have already seen what happens when we stop playing first touch passing football: we saw it against spain (the last 15 minutes of that game were as 1 sided as it can get) and we saw it against croatia in the second half of that game.
now i can understand u can't play pass and move for 90 minutes, as that would be too energy-consuming and it would be not realistic to expect us to play on that level for an entire game. but 60-70 minutes of 1st touch passing football are a realistic expectation and that's what i expect from us.

like dominic said, the formation was a mess yesterday. there was no reason to get back to 4-4-2, abate was absolutely invisible, motta as a trequartista is just pathetic and lining up marchisio on the right side is really stupid and it's seriously pissing me off.....
but nevermind that, the main problem wasn't the formation, nor the starting 11. we never even tried to play our football yesterday. as zeem pointed out, there was absolutely no off the ball movement, and that forced our ball carriers to hold on to that ball for 2, 3, 4 touches, wich made our build-up slow and predictable and flat. at half time i was seriously tempted to change channel and watch the spain-croatia game yesterday.... we were that dull.

and that's my opinion on our football. now let's get to the formation.... we finally got back barzagli. we finally had a chance to line up juventus back-line (chiellini-bonucci-barzagli) and to put de rossi back where he belongs (at midfield) and what we did? we switched back to 4-4-2 with a diamond midfield. brilliant. and then, as if that wasn't already stupid enough, instead of lining up a trequartista in the trequartista spot (diamanti), we put there a metodista..... now that is just hilarious. honestly lining up motta as a trequartista is something so crazy, we wouldn't even need to try it out, to realise it can't work........ but however we did already try it out.... last year, and it didn't work at all (obviously).
seriously what the fuck was prandelli thinking!

now i realise that second guessing a professional coach (and a great one, like prandelli) makes me look like an idiot.... but honestly, how could prandelli not see this coming!? we shouldn't even consider the diamond midfield option to begin with.... but even assuming we would, at least line up a trequartista for God's sake! what was the point in bringing a trequartista like diamanti in poland, if, once u decide to go for a formation that features a trequartista, u line up a metodista in his spot? that's just plain silly. i really can't understand this.

i love prandelli, he's a fantastic coach, but come on, stop trying this fancy nonsensical stuff and just line up each player in his proper position. it's been already established that we play much better with a 3 men defensive line (wich is also the defensive setup that happens to suit our cbs and our wingbacks the most), so no more 4-4-2. line up marchisio as an inside-left (and not as an inside-right), leave balzaretti in the starting 11 (balza yesterday was, along with de rossi, our best performer) and please, no more abate on the right. he's a brilliant player, but he's no maggio... and most importantly, he doesn't suit this team as good as maggio (as we saw yesterday).

if we're gonna play the quarter-finals like we did yesterday, we're gonna lose, no matter which team we will face. and honestly, after seeing what this team can do, it would be a real shame.

 

[lo zio]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

That was like a boring Ibra-less Milan. Pirlo was really bad but that reminded me of his Milan days. No off ball movement besides Balzaretti and Pirlo gets lost.

well there's no point in having a regista like pirlo if there's no one to pass the ball to. like u said, our lack of off the ball movement was the reason of pirlo's horrible performance. by half time he had already misplaced more passes than he did in the entire first half of the season with juve. and after 12 minutes he had already misplaces more passes than he did in both the croatia game and the spain game put together.

Why is diamanté getting in over gio

i have no idea

Why did Balzaretti play zero minutes until today? Him and Maggio are among the best pair of sidebacks of Europe, it will be a pleasure to see them attack since they act also as wingers sometimes.

yep

Italy had too many midfielders out there of a similar mould. They only got in eachothers way, while limiting the overall play. None of the midfielders had anywhere to go or anyone to pass to, except to another midfielder who was barely a meter away.

exactly

 

[Dominic]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

Let's hope Prandelli saw the same match and draws similar conclusions.

 

[Rantboy]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

Could somebody please explain me the criteria for tie-breaking for teams who finish level on points?

At some point yesterday Italy, Spain and Croatia were all finishing with 5 points. In that scenario, their head-to-head record would be tied too (having all tied against each other and all of them beating Ireland).

However, as it stood (had Spain and Croatia finished as a draw) Italy would be 1st, Spain 2nd and Croatia 3rd. However Spain's goal difference was by far the best (having trashed Ireland 4-0), so I thought they would have been 1st? After head-to-head criteria, is there anything else before goal difference?? This is very confusing.
Do they consider number of World Cups won then?? Italy = 4, Spain = 1 and Croatia = 0???

 

[Dazzlà]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

forget all the games with ireland.
if spain vs croatia was 0-0 all teams would have 2 points

italy 1-1 croatia
italy 1-1 spain
spain 0-0 croatia.

goal difference is the same so now its goals scored. italy have 2. spain and croatia with 1 goal, so italy are 1st. so then to seperate croatia and spain would be back to goal difference on all the games.

i think.

 

[Rantboy]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

forget all the games with ireland.
if spain vs croatia was 0-0 all teams would have 2 points

italy 1-1 croatia
italy 1-1 spain
spain 0-0 croatia.

goal difference is the same so now its goals scored. italy have 2. spain and croatia with 1 goal, so italy are 1st. so then to seperate croatia and spain would be back to goal difference on all the games.

i think.

Thanks mate. Am I the only one who thinks such criteria is complete and utter nonsense?
By throwing goal difference in the gutter, all they do is encourage teams to defend narrow leads. One-nil is all that matters! Well done UEFA.

EDIT: actually, this may have been designed to prevent tournament cheating/sabotage. Brazil would have welcomed this during the World Cup '78 when Peru deliberately let in 7 goals against Argentina to knock us out

 

[Milanista]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

If it ended 1-1, Italy was out if it ended 2-0 against Ireland. This is due to Spain and Croatia having better goal differences vs Ireland.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

Hmmm...not sure about that Ben, if you lined up with the Juve three plus Maggio and Balzaretti, I'd say that's one of the strongest defences in the tournament and that's without taking into account who your goalkeeper is.

 

[lo zio]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri

Hmmm...not sure about that Ben, if you lined up with the Juve three plus Maggio and Balzaretti, I'd say that's one of the strongest defences in the tournament and that's without taking into account who your goalkeeper is.

oh sure, if we were to line up such a defensive setup, i would trust those guys with my life. but the thing is, we haven't been able to line up that defensive line so far (barzagli was injured and, for reasons that go beyond my understanding, giaccherini was preferred over balzaretti).
now the left side problem has been fixed (i can't honestly imagine prandelli ignoring balzaretti again, not after yesterday's performance.... wich btw was nothing but an average performance, by balzaretti's standards)... but since we lost chiellini, chances are we won't be able to line up that defensive setup u mentioned.

from what i understand we basically have 2 choices: either we go back to that 3 men line with de rossi at the centre and barzagli and bonucci at his flanks (wich would be my choice), or we might go for a back-4 with bonucci amd barzagli as cbs and abate and balzaretti on the flanks (maggio doesn't cover enough to be lined up in a back 4).
now, both options would be pretty good (although i'd prefere the first one), but they don't exactly fill me with confidence (at least not as much as that defensive setup u referred to)

 

[lo zio]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

i've never been into gossip and i honestly couldn't care less about celebrities' lives and such (wich is probably the reason why i found out about this only today), but i just heard on tv prandelli has a new soulmate, a lovely lady named Novella.

to my surprise (like i said, i usually don't care about this sort of stuff), i found myself delighted to hear such a good news for cesare.
it must be terrifying for everyone to cope with the death of their wife, but even moreso for cesare, whose lovestory with manuela (his wife, who died a few years ago) was "storybook material"... he only loved 1 woman in his entire life... no girlfriends, no teenage crushes. he and manuela met as they were teenagers and never left each others since her last day on earth.... that would be impressive for a normal guy, nevermind for a succesful football player.

i still remember when he suddenly left his job at roma (his first real chance at a top club) to spend as much time as possible with his wife during her "last months".
the class, the dignity he showed in that tragic situation moved the entire country (not that u would expect anything less from such a noble man).
this woman he recently fell in love with must be quite a special person to deserve his attention.

anyway i know this is absolutely irrelevant to our topic, but i was really happy to find about this news and since he happens to be our coach, i thought i'd share this news with u (to be honest i'm not sure how "new" this news really is, but i just heard about it for the first time anyway)

 

[Milanista]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Very sad story - after his wife passed the Fiorentina fans stuck by Cesare a lot:

YouTube - Minuto di silenzio prima di Fiorentina - Inter 2007

No matter how we perform against England, Cesare will remain as one of my favourite figures in football.

 

[PLF]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Yep.

Everybody loves Cesare.

I don't think a single person dislikes him!