Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

meghni and del nero are not awful, rfu! inconsistant? yes, but talented... a lot (especially meghni).... i mean u might even describe meghni as a "below average player", given his inconsistance.... but then u'd have to redefine your entire quality ladder.... i mean u can't say meghni is awful and, just a few lines below, remark "the quality of premiership clubs.... there's some serious incoherence here

and premiership sides have much more quality depth compared with Palermo. La Liga sides can destroy anyone with their swift attacking football (ask Juve about that one ).

sorry mate, but i got to strongly disagree on this.
as for la liga clubs "swift attacking football".... well it would look a lot less attacking against some serious defenses.... besides don't put "swift" and "spanish football" in the same line... those 2 expressions don't really get along.... spanish football doesn't get along with any expression related to velocity or quickness.

however mate don't buy those clicheès about the attacking liga and the conservative serie a.... it's just a huge load of bullsh.. just do the math, and u'll find out the thruth.
last year someone brought up this topic and i replied putting down some number and stats wich speak for themselves.
average goal per match in premiership: 2.64
average goal per match in serie a: 2.55
average goal per match in la liga : 2.65

so it turns out that the gap between the "most attacking league in europe" and the "boring, conservative serie a" is 0.11 goals per match..... WOW! that's a lot! i'm sure every fan can certainly "feel", spot this gap during single league games. i can almost hear the average fan comments....
"yeah it's not bad, but still this football is soo defensive... it would be so much better with, say, 0.11 more goals per matches... that would really turn serie a into a fancy league"

theese stats are about the 2008 season...can't find anything related to the last season.... but usually those numbers are always pretty much the same.

and btw mate, u can't use an august preseason friendly to prove anything! italian teams won't ever look good in summer. our league is the last one to begin and our fitness preparation schedule are aimed to bring the players in the best form on october.... i mean come on every season italian teams get spanked by anyone around europe in summer... doesn't that suggest u anything? tottenham tore apart roma last summer!!! it was 5-0 or something like that.... LOL!!!!!!

as for "the premiership sides having more quality depth than palermo"..... no. the only epl sides (beside the top 4 of course) which have a better roster than palermo (but then again having a better roster doesn't mean anything) are man city and tottenham..... everton and aston villa are nice teams (actually they proved to be much better than man city and tottenham and pretty much on the same standards of palermo.... but they don't have a better roster than palermo.. at all).
but then again, does that makes tottenham and man city better than palermo (serie a's 8th team)? No.
football is a simple game.... but really not THAT simple.. i mean it's not like playing a football videogame.... u sign better players--> your team becomes stronger..... it doesn't work like that... there are so many factors to consider..... the most important of them being "the football".
man city and tottenham wasted fortunes to improve their teams last season, and yet their football has been quite horrible.... actually football-wise we shouldn't even compare man city and spurs to palermo as they just belong to different standards.... chievo and torino would be a much more appropriate comparison at least if we stick just to the quality of the football....
but of course that would be silly as the quality of football is extremely important, but it's not the only factor... the quality of the players still means something and i'm pretty sure both man city and spurs will eventually realise how to exploit their potential and become good teams..... but playing better foootball than palermo did last season?.... that's a long shot.

another factor strongly tied to the quality of the football actually played by the teams is the coach. i guess we all can agree that fulham can't compete with the likes of man city and tottenham in terms of quality and depth... but fulham, unlike tottenham and man city, has a coach, a real football coach, and that's the reason of their succesful season.... and that's also why they did better than man city and tottenham.

seriously the only reason why u put man city and tottenham, along with aston villa and everton is because u just can't write them off with those squads they have..... but then again if i had to base my opinion just on "facts" (wich means on last season results) then the only clubs which deserve to be compared to palermo are aston villa and everton.
and that means comparing the 5th and the 6th best team in the epl to the 8th best team in serie a (and actually i'm not even sure we're the 8th best team, as someone could argue that lazio and samp are better than palermo)...

But looking at serie A... the fiorentina midfield currently has a big hole in it yet to be fulfilled after Melo's departure... Roma don't have a complete squad (no recognized CF, no replacement CBs, no replacement for Totti) one injury and they're a mess... Napoli don't have a complete squad either (no quality replacement for Hamsik, no legt wing-back; De Laurentiis said something about that that cracked me up - funny dude )... Udinese are strong and with a prooper CF (albeit Corradi)

well fiorentina just filled that hole with a hell of a player (zanetti). so corvino sold melo to juve for 25 millions and a few weeks later he bought zanetti from juve for 2 MILLIONS!!!!
so now fiorentina is 23 millions richer... and they also have a better metodista than melo (zanetti), which they brought from the same club they sold melo to..... for 23 million euros less than what they got from juve for melo!
oh my God! that is so hilarious. i mean, i know odds are zanetti will be injured for most of the season.... but can u imagine, what if zanetti actually has an injury free season??!!
secco would probably kill himself
and however, even without zanetti, with donadel and gobbi (not to mention jorgensen ) they're pretty well covered.

concerning roma, they definitely lack depth (but since they won't have to ply CL, that won't be a major issue), but i wouldn't say the squad is not complete. with totti and vucinic the cf spot is extremely well covered (not to mention that kid okaka who definitely deserves playtime this season).
for the cb they have a very very nice backup in andreolli (who has been on of the most impressive in the last under 21 competition)... however u're right on this, 1 backup cb is not enough, even for a team who will have to focus just on the league.

i really can't see how can u say napoli has not a complete squad! they actually have so many good players they can field 2 different teams. and they also have so many versatile players they can display at least 3 different formations!!
so what makes u believe their squad isn't complete? the lack of a quality replacement for hamsik??!!
jeez mate they're napoli, not chelsea or real madrid! they're already lucky to have a mezz'ala like hamsik... u want them to have 2?!?! we're not talking about a champions league contender here mate. napoli actually has an amazing squad.

and the same goee for udinese. yes quagliarella is hard to replace and corradi is definitely not as good as him...... but actually, if u think carefully, there's some logic behind this move.
replacing quagliarella with a player as good as him was simply of of the table for udinese, as such a player would be just too expensive..... but actually they don't really need a player like quagliarella. with all those great offensive players they have ( di natale, pepe, sanches, inler) what they really need is a tall cf who can catch passes, hold the ball and try some triangulations (to activate all those offensive threats).
now, corradi can't score to save his life..... but he's damn good at that (triangulating with wingers and offensive midfielders).... actually that's the only thing he's good at.
so i don't think they will miss quagliarella that much.
besides they still have floro flores, who is a very promising cf.
and however, if someone would tell me "it won't be easy to cope with quagliarella's departure", then i would reply that it wasn't easy either to cope with zapata's injury last season.... and yet they did pretty well without him.
with felipe and zapata, udinese has one of the very best cb couples in europe.... even better than many top clubs cb partnerships.

Zenga s'alright

yeah, zenga is alright.... but the thing is ballardini is much, much more than that.

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

About meghni, okay he's talented, but I would not heap praise on Sabatini for bringing him to Lazio. Two seasons and he hasn't yet performed as expected. Del nero is technical player, with good acceleration and technique, but he's not good enough for Lazio, maybe a mid-table team like Palermo (kidding )... no but seriously, how players like Del Nero can find space in a big club ahead of players like Cossa, Ceravolo and Brienza has got me stumped. But I like what Lazio are doing. Its hard to imagine they were having serious finacial problems not too long ago (Fiorentina also) now they have a good core of players that will allow them to compete. I only hope that Pandev (who I don't rate), Ledesma and De Silvestri remain.

... spanish football doesn't get along with any expression related to velocity or quickness.

compared to serie a teams ... But you're right I think. maybe only Villareal then because they have have a lot of off-the-ball movement that creates space which they were able to make use of against Juve.

so it turns out that the gap between the "most attacking league in europe" and the "boring, conservative serie a" is 0.11 goals per match..... WOW! that's a lot! i'm sure every fan can certainly "feel", spot this gap during single league games.

I wasn't comparing leagues, but when other teams play Italian sides there is a tendency for Italians sides to sit back, not necessarily defend in numbers but because of the tempo of the game, Italian sides find it difficult to keep possession of the ball or take the initiative.

seriously the only reason why u put man city and tottenham, along with aston villa and everton is because u just can't write them off with those squads they have..... but then again if i had to base my opinion just on "facts" (wich means on last season results) then the only clubs which deserve to be compared to palermo are aston villa and everton.
and that means comparing the 5th and the 6th best team in the epl to the 8th best team in serie a

you're right here. Also, not only are Everton and Aston Villa better teams, but they also have smaller squads. But I think when you consider the tempo at which the premiership sides play, it should also become a fitness issue. WOuld Palermo manage a 5th placed finish if they played in the premiership? I wouldn't be so sure. I'm not writing Palermo off, but they're not used to doing so much running and chasing (most Italian sides aren't) that is required in premiership games.

well fiorentina just filled that hole with a hell of a player (zanetti). so corvino sold melo to juve for 25 millions and a few weeks later he bought zanetti from juve for 2 MILLIONS!!!!
so now fiorentina is 23 millions richer... and they also have a better metodista than melo (zanetti), which they brought from the same club they sold melo to..... for 23 million euros less than what they got from juve for melo!

Hey, no fair, I posted that before C Zanetti signed But I agree with you 100%. But I'm both happy and upset about the transanction. I'm glad because Juve have lost a talented 'metodista' who is better technically than Melo can deploy more accurate passes, but I'm pissed becuase Zanetti is only valued at a measly 1.5 million euros... that's ridiculous! A lot of people don't realize how highly rated (and consistent, despite all those injuries) Cristiano once was (and still is). Forget Gobbi and Donadel, if Zanetti has injury free season Juve will live to regret this decision... hell, we should've never sold him. I also hear he requested the transfer, so who knows. Also Juve might make a move of D'Ago again because Sissoko will be out for a while yet.

with totti and vucinic the cf spot is extremely well covered (not to mention that kid okaka who definitely deserves playtime this season).

C'mon man, Okaka... I bet Roma will loan him out again. You can quote me when it happens And isn't Totti already injured? Vucinic isn't capable of carrying the team on his own. Huntelaar would've been a very good addition to the squad IMO, and VDV too. What about the players like Perotta and Taddei who are past their best. Andreolli (former Inter) will be loaned out I think. ROma are in the Europa cup this season, again they do not have adequate depth.

Regarding Napoli, consider how many games Hamsik played last season, and note how he had suddenly had a dip in form in the second half of the season. They're lucky they're not playing in Europe this season, but they need a good back up, someone who could finish the final minutes. A versatile player like Pinzi and Padoin of Atalanta, or Lazzari (you see his 'Bergkamp' goal vs. Reggina ). It's doable I think. Also they're missing a LB (Del Grosso of Siena is decent).

with felipe and zapata, udinese has one of the very best cb couples in europe

Agree with you. Felipe particualry, he is very composed and consistent, Zapata on the ohterhand has his moments but he's young... I think they complement each other quite well. Also there back ups (Domizzi and Coda) are quite good. Lukovic can also fill in. I also understand they have a good group of young players coming through the ranks.

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Speaking of Andreolli, he played the UEFA cup games against Gent... by the way did anyone watch that? Roma were on fire and just raped Gent in Belgium 7-1. Totti was on fire.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

roma will loan okaka just if they will get another striker... wich seems pretty unlikely at the moment. and the same goes for andreolli. yeah perrotta and taddei are probably past their prime... but it's not like they became junk. probably they're not those "monsters" they used to be but theyre definitely not old (taddei isn't even 30). they're still high class players.

as for the uefa cup (i'm not gonna call it europa league!.... ever!!), u have to understand italian clubs really don't give a damn about it. that cup is considered just a waste of time and money here in italy, so roma is not gonna make other moves on the market, because of that competition, they will rather deploy their youth team.... hell even palermo did it a few years ago.
yes, they lack depth but the starting 11 is pretty complete (i like huntelaar... but with all the respect, vucinic belongs to a different class.... at least at the moment).
the lack of backups will cost them the scudetto race (infact i said i don't think they'll challenge inter this season)... but i'm sure they'll reach a champions league spot eventually (even though the competition will be terrific).

Regarding Napoli, consider how many games Hamsik played last season, and note how he had suddenly had a dip in form in the second half of the season.

that huge collapse napoli faced last season was due to 2 reasons.
the first reason is background-related. the pressure a football player experiences in napoli is something absolutely unbelievable. a napoli player can't even go out to buy some bread... as soon as he's out of his home he's assalted by the fans. the unbelievable love and passion of the napoletani (napoli citizens) for their club generates an unbearable pressure. and it's not something that concerns just the fans... it involves the whole city. in napoli everyone cares about the club: the schoolboys, and their mothers, the street artists and the laywers, homeless people and companies ceo...
last season napoli had an amazing first half of the season. it was an endless crescendo and this boosted the expectations and the joy of the city... wich means even more pressure for hamsik and co.
seriously it was just a matter of time... an experienced player couldn't handle so much "love" let alone a team formed mainly by young players.

the second reason was the intertoto cup, wich forced reja to begin the preseason training session in july! u can't start so early in the preseason, with some italian style (heavy) fitness programs and expect not to pay the consequences of this choice by the end of the winter\beginning of spring.
football players are not machines. that's why italian clubs organise their summer training schedule to bring the players in the best form by october.... because otherwise they would be tired in the most crucial moment of the season(febbruary\march).

so napoli's collapse was more than expected. actually i predicted it. i remember when udinese faced its bad form period (december) i wrote on here that i was surprised that udinese felt down and that i expected napoli to fall instead.

a replacement for hamsik, as good as hamsik would cost about 25 millions. a more than decent replacement would still cost 10\15 millions.... marino is not gonna spend so much money on a backup. he'd rather get a starting leftback (wich is the only waekness in the team).
besides, i feel u're underestimating bogliacino. sure he's no hamsik, but he's good enough for the job... besides a better player would never accept a backup role in a mid class club like napoli (by mid class i mean non top class, i know it's pretty insulting to define napoli a "mid class team")..... i mean do u think a player like, say, rakitic would sign for napoli, knowing he won't be anyhting more than hamsik's replacement?

you're right here. Also, not only are Everton and Aston Villa better teams, but they also have smaller squads. But I think when you consider the tempo at which the premiership sides play, it should also become a fitness issue. WOuld Palermo manage a 5th placed finish if they played in the premiership? I wouldn't be so sure. I'm not writing Palermo off, but they're not used to doing so much running and chasing (most Italian sides aren't) that is required in premiership games.

i'm not saying we would definitely get the 5th place, mate, i was just saying that we would be 5th place "contender" (along with the teams i mentioned before) in the epl, while in serie a we are 8th place contender

however fitness can't become an issue, because it's something that can be fixed. u just have to change your work out program. serie a and epl have to completely different schools in terms if fitness trainings... they can't go heavy as we do on training sessions as they play way too often..... so epl players have a higher stamina (it's not about pace mate, it's about stamina) but also (coz of the light trainings) much bigger chances to face muscular injuries (wich are usually the longests).
if palermo were an epl team we would have to follow their fitness programs, hence there would be no difference. it's not like english players are faster "by nature"...also because the 70% percent of epl players aren't even english.... and it's not like a foreign player moves to an epl club and suddenly becomes faster... it's all because of the athletic preparation.

however, since u're giving me the chance to do it....let's just try to dismantle, once for all, all the wrong clicheès about pace in football.

it's the pace of the game related to the pace of the players?
no. because the tell-tale of the rhythm of the game is not the movement of the players, it's the movement of the ball. it doesn't matter how fast u are. the only thing that counts is how quickly the ball goes.

so what makes a game more "pacey"
quick and accurate ball distribution. it doesn't matter how fast ronaldo is... he won't ever be faster than a pass. so that means that a player like liverani (who is remarkably slow) can raise the pace more than ronaldo himself. and sticking to manchester, carrick is much more important than ronaldo, when it's about raising the pace (for the same reason i explained before).

so is the british game "highly paced"?
it depends by wich club u're considering. top clubs like chelsea, arsenal, liverpool and man utd definitely play their game to a high tempo. but that's because they can mix the great stamina of their players with an extremely quick and accurate ball distribution. everton and aston villa aren't quite as good as them, but they're still pretty good at that.
but as soon as u consider the rest of the league (newcastle, porthsmouth, wigan, west ham, tottenham, man city, etc...) well, even though the players pace is higher, the pace of their game is a lot slower... it's even slower than some italian sides tempo (like palermo) or some spanish clubs tempo.
and it's not because the players are slower.... it's because their ball distribution isn't accurate at all.

i said that the rhythm of the game depends on the ball movement. so if the pass doesn't reach its target, then it doesn't matter how fast the players are moving neither how fast the ball is moving.... the pace of that play is 0, because the pass didn't reach its target and the team lost posession (wich means that play ended).

most of epl mid table clubs have an awful ball distribution. most of them (actually almost all of them) haven't a proper brain at midfield (a deep-lying playmaker). their passing inaccuracy, their lack of a plot, their tendency to run with the ball (instead of passing it) or to try some long passes which usually don't reach the target make the game more frantic, but less fast. it's like watching a "human pinball".

now let's consider spanish mid table clubs. the spanish league is the slowest of the top leagues, talking about the players (even slower than serie a). the rrhythm of the players is extremely slow..... but, as we established, it's not the player's pace that matters... it's the ball movement. and since the spanish league is the best of them all in terms of passing accuracy, this usually allows some slow mid class spanish clubs to play a more pacey game than their english counterparts.

and finally, is the dominance of the english clubs in europe due to their "high tempo"?
absolutely not.
high tempo has always been a trademark of the english school.... and yet italian and spanish top clubs used to kick the sh... out of them till 10 years ago.....so we can clearely say that the pace is not the reason.
everyone justifies the success of english clubs with their pace... even italian commentators are doing it lately.....
but that is just plain wrong. and i believe we use this as an excuse... because it's hard to admit the thruth: that they play better football.

what turned british top clubs into the best top clubs in europe is not the pace (as their pace has always been high).... actually their pace changed.... but it didn't get faster.... it got slower. because those teams gave themselves a plot.
carrick, xabi alonso, arteta, etc... they don't just get the ball and run like mads with their head on the ball. they get the ball, lift their head, take a look at their teammates and see what's the best thing to do with the ball..... this takes time... it slows down the rhythm of the players.... but it raises up the rhythm of the game, because it increases the accuracy of the plays.
the pace of the players will only allow u to put pressure on the opponent ball carrier, forcing them to make a mistake. but once they commit that mistake and loose possession, then pace won't help u anymore. then it will be up to your brain to tell u what to do with the ball... and it will be up to your passing accuracy to turn your intuition into a real play.

and this is where the "step up" of epl top sides can be found. they're less frantic and more clever... they learned to play football. they learned to look at the pitch and not at the ball.
they learned (and i believe rafa played a big role in this, as ferguson never did that before rafa came in england) to change the tempo of the game, during the game (while the british game has always been famous for being extremely flat in this concern;; no changes of tempo, just run like a mad for the all match)

they're not just faster, the high tempo has nothing to do with their improvement. the thruth is they became better football teams.
we had many proves of this in the last few years. just think about that roma - manchester match, in roma a few years ago (the one manchester won 0-2). that was an amazing display of tactical discipline. or think about the first half of the liverpool - milan CL final that milan won. during that first half liverpool was footballling perfection, football in its most sophisticated expression..... that was sacchi's football performed by an english team.
they showed us they can play our football as well as we can.... even better than we can.

so that's what makes the epl top sides the best in the world today: not the pace, but the quality.
and that's also what makes the rest of their league pretty poor: the lack of quality (wich is also due to the frenzy of their game).

Speaking of Andreolli, he played the UEFA cup games against Gent... by the way did anyone watch that? Roma were on fire and just raped Gent in Belgium 7-1. Totti was on fire.

well i would be worried if they couldn't walk over gent to be honest

 

[matherto]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

So when does the season start?

And what times do games usually start?

 

[FreMM]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

23 of August at 3.00 pm with every week one or two evening games.

 

[Neoexodus]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

When is that Milan, Inter, Juventus, Bari tournament starting? RLY want to watch it. =p

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

The Trofeo Tim is on Friday, but no Bari.

 

[Neoexodus]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Then who is there with the big3?

 

[Dominic]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Noone.

 

[Neoexodus]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

? The only teams that are there are Milan, Inter and Juve?

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Yeah, but the Trofeo TIM has always been contested by Juve/Inter/Milan, why would Bari be part of it?

 

[Neoexodus]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Ah aleluia some1 says its name.

Never saw it, that why i don't know who plays it. See, Tv here doesn't show Serie A or Italy. Only like a Derby or something, something really important and that includes a Portuguese in the mix..

But ok, sorry for my ignorance, but i had no way to know about that all by myself.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

u have nothing to be sorry about, man! that's the point of the whole thread; sharing infos about italian footie

however yes the trofeo tim has always been between milan inter and juve (at least that's what i remember). if i remember well it should be formed by 3 "mini-matches" of 45 minutes (a half time per match).

don't expect anything fancy anyhow. italian teams never look good at this point of the preseason. we're still in the middle of the heavy part of the training session (rebuilding the muscular mass of the players after the holydays).
this means the players are very tired, have no stamina and their legs are damn heavy.

the only good thing about the trofeo tim is that putting the "big guns" one against each others, it forces the players to do everything they have (and theese clubs rivalries play a big part in this).

so u can expect some intensity, but not quality. inter milan and juve (aswell as every other italian team) aren't ready yet to offer some quality right now.

 

[Dominic]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

So Ben, were Criscito and Marchisio worthy additions to your national side yesterday? Didn't see the game myself. Looks like Lippi used Marchisio in the way he used Perrotta?

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

as for the uefa cup (i'm not gonna call it europa league!.... ever!!)

Hear hear... seriously though, who's idea was it to change the name and what was the point? I'm not going to even bother looking it up, that's how much it irritates me. It's a shame Italian clubs don't take the Uefa Cup seriously, especially seeing as its the only Euro cup Inter have won for ages I'm not sure of the reasoning either. Couldn't some of these clubs use the money and prestige (playing in the supercup in moncao for example)

so that's what makes the epl top sides the best in the world today: not the pace, but the quality.

well put. I think this is why Italian were so dominant in the 90's, because all the top class players plied there trade in Italy. Now everthing's reversed.

were Criscito and Marchisio worthy additions to your national side yesterday? Didn't see the game myself. Looks like Lippi used Marchisio in the way he used Perrotta?

I'm interested to know also. Also how did Santon perform? He gives the impression that he's good defensively but I think it has to do with the fact he is overly cautious (particularly on the left-side) and doesn't forage forward as often as he would like. I have absolutely no problem with that, builds his confidence IMO. Also I hear the 4-3-3 formation is dead... 'bout time. No more Pepe and Iaquinta on the wings But a 4-4-2 is screaming for a Cassano. Either that or Totti comes out of retirement.

Also how did the U21s perform? Looks like Casaraghi overhauled the entire team. Di Gennaro playing as a regista

One more thing (damn I promised I'd keep these short), according to Rafa, Aquiliani has a better 'killer' pass than Xavi Alonso. Anyone care to comment? From what I remember of Aquiliani, he wasn't a better passer than De Rossi in the final 1/3 (De Rossi delievers some nicely flighted chips over defences). Now if that's true then no way Aquilani is a better 'killer' passer than Xabi. Anyway that would mean he's better playing further forward than in a deep-lying position, wouldn't it?

Check this out...

YouTube - milan roma 1-2 rabona aquilani totti

Mama mia...

 

[Abhishek]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

One more thing (damn I promised I'd keep these short), according to Rafa, Aquiliani has a better 'killer' pass than Xavi Alonso. Anyone care to comment? From what I remember of Aquiliani, he wasn't a better passer than De Rossi in the final 1/3 (De Rossi delievers some nicely flighted chips over defences). Now if that's true then no way Aquilani is a better 'killer' passer than Xabi. Anyway that would mean he's better playing further forward than in a deep-lying position, wouldn't it?

Check this out...

YouTube - milan roma 1-2 rabona aquilani totti

Mama mia...

Aquilani's assisting abilities are absolutely fantastic.

Rafa's already mentioned he won't play Aquilani in a deep lying role. He's said he thinks his best position is playing between Gerrard and Mascherano.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

sorry guys, can't say anything about italy's match as i didn't watch it. i'm not really into summer football... especially italian summer football (clubs and national team).... is really awful.
besides, after an entire season, summer is the perfect time to "detox" from football. not to mention the fact that it's absolutely impossible to stay at home in summer here. theere are just too many better things to do than sitting on a couch.

however kids like santon, marchisio and criscito (but i'd say also balotelli, motta, cigarini, santacroce, etc...) are definitely gonna form the spine of the italy team to come in the next years.
anyhow i don't think the formation is a major issue, 4-3-3, 4-4-2, whatever.... what we really need to change is our mental approach..... and i'm afraid that's not gonna change until lippi is gone. and the same goes for cassano.... he's not gonna make the team until lippi's era will end (wich will happen next year, after the horrible world cup campaign we're about to face).
about totti's comeback, NO WAY! nobody wants him back (not even lippi)... besides we have so many talented youngsters... calling back totti would be a very bad call.

It's a shame Italian clubs don't take the Uefa Cup seriously

italian football clubs presidents are quite cynical (or practical, if u prefere). they don't give a damn about prestige, they just care about their balance sheets (and tbf, i agree with em).

the problem is the way the uefa cup is conceived.... it doesn't gather enough media attention..... wich means less sponsor money and less tv rights related money.

so it turns out that a uefa cup campaign doesn't bring money to a club... actually it drains money. all the tv rights money and match prizes are wasted in bonuses for the players.

plus facing a serious uefa cup campaign implies lots of expenses and problems. u need to enlarge your roster to guarrantee some rotation, wich means new signings and new contracts..
and such a deep roster can cause big issues. coz if u don't reach the final phase of the cup, those new signings will waste most of their season on the bench, complaining about the lack of playtime and creating even more troubles in the dressing room. this brings the club to sell those players as soon as possible (to save at least some of the contract-related money and to make things easier for the coach)....and your urge to sell gives leverage to whoever wanna buy those players (who will likely make a bargain).

long story short, a uefa cup campaign becomes a problem, not an achievement. and that's why many italian club presidents (like zamparini or spinelli) in the last few years admitted they'd rather reach a 7th spot and miss the uefa cup, than finish the season n the 6th place and the european competition. and even when they do reach the uefa cup, they deploy their youth teams rather than buy new players.

well put. I think this is why Italian were so dominant in the 90's, because all the top class players plied there trade in Italy. Now everthing's reversed.

well, to be honest i didn't mean to say they have better rosters.
as i told u before, rfu, it's not like today serie a misses world class players. sure 20 years ago the situation was different, coz about the 90% of world class players were playing here (while today the situation is a lot more balanced)..... but the reason why they do better than us is not because they have better players... it's because they play better football, wich is a different thing.

let's take as example the best team in europe in the last 3 years: man utd. they do have a great team, no doubt about that.... but, roster-wise they're not much better than inter. the "roster quality gap" is extremely slight, compared to the "football quality gap".
vidic-ferdinand is arguably the best cb partnership out there today..... but samuel-chivu (or samuel-cordoba) is top class too. they have one of the best leftbacks in the world, u have one of the best righbacks in the world. carrick is a wonderful player... but would u trade him for cambiasso? would u trade eto'o for rooney? or berbatov for milito? or santon for one of the da silva brothers? would u trade balotelli for wilshere?

the truth is, roster-wise inter and man utd are pretty much on the same level. so why man utd has been clearely a better team? not because they have a better team... because they play better football. and the 2 things aren't always related.
look at barca, for instance in 2 years they made just some slight roster changes...and yet the team completely changed its football.
so even though having a good roster is important, it's not the only factor, in order to play good football.
today man utd is a great team which plays some great football, while inter is a great team wich plays some pretty poor football.

One more thing (damn I promised I'd keep these short), according to Rafa, Aquiliani has a better 'killer' pass than Xavi Alonso. Anyone care to comment? From what I remember of Aquiliani, he wasn't a better passer than De Rossi in the final 1/3 (De Rossi delievers some nicely flighted chips over defences). Now if that's true then no way Aquilani is a better 'killer' passer than Xabi. Anyway that would mean he's better playing further forward than in a deep-lying position, wouldn't it?

never take de rossi as a comparison... he's like usain bolt or michael phelps.... on a class of his own. daniele has indeed a terrific passing game... besides not so long ago he was lined up as a mezz'ala.... and in 2 years he became the 2nd best mezz'ala in the world (right behind gerrard).... then his coach turned him into a metodista.... and in 2 years he became the best metodista in the world.... like i said, it's just unfair to compare a football player to him.... he's like mozart; absolutely unique.

having said that, if by "killer pass" rafa means "assisiting skill" than yes, alberto is definitely better than xabi in that (much closer to gerrard on this concern). and yes his ideal position is not xabi's position... it's gerrard's position.

and about that amazing pass against milan... that' wasn't just a "simple" rabona... it was a first touch rabona, performed with his weak foot .... i'm amazed by the fact he even just though he could do something like that.... playing against milan.... in san siro!
so i'm about to receive a pass in milan's terrytory, i have 4 milan players coming to put pressure on me and tonetto is going wide on the left... so how to serve him? how about a first touch rabona with my left foot? yeah it sounds good.... simply insane.
talking about personality.

 

[Abhishek]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Yeh, doing something like that in the San Siro requires balls.

Very interesting take on his injuries. He himself said that the Roma doctors never fully treated his ankle injury, and it kept getting worse. Plus, Roma always kept changing doctors, so he never had just one doctor to treat his injury.

Here you can read

Alberto Aquilani has rejected suggestions that he is injury prone and promised Liverpool he will prove to be value for money despite being likely to spend the first two months of the season sitting in the stands.

Having cost around £20m from Roma, Aquilani is Rafael Benítez's most expensive signing since Liverpool secured runners-up spot in the Premier League at the end of last season. Yet a quarter of the season could be over before the Italian, recruited to strengthen a midfield weakened by Xabi Alonso's exit to Real Madrid, recovers from the ankle problem which has sidelined him for the last five months and makes his bow in front of the Kop.

Aquilani is still recovering having had surgery on his right ankle in May, his time at Roma having been blighted by injury problems. He has played only 73 games in three seasons and his last appearance came as a substitute on 11 March, against Arsenal in the Champions League.

Aquilani, 25, suggested that he might have been lining up in Sunday's televised fixture at Tottenham had it not been for mistakes by doctors in Rome. "Initially, the ankle problem I have was overlooked," said Aquilani, who was forced to undergo a stringent medical before signing for Liverpool. "We thought it was a simple injury so I just carried on playing. Then I finally had to stop because it really didn't feel well.

"There was a problem with the Roma medical camp in that the doctors were continually changing so I was never looked after by the same person. Perhaps that's when I began having problems."

Aquilani believes he has been unfairly lumbered with a reputation for being injury-prone. He admits he has had his problems, but no more than any other player. "Injuries are just part and parcel of the job for a footballer," said Aquilani, who spoke to Roma's former Liverpool player John Arne Riise before making the move to Anfield.

"Liverpool saw that I have had some injury problems, but they've recognised that they aren't serious," he said. "It is a shame that I can't play straight away. But I'm going to be working very hard at this in order to avoid problems in the future."

Benítez rubbished suggestions the arrival of Aquilani represented a gamble given the player's injury record. Liverpool need only journey to the other end of the East Lancashire Road to discover the risks inherent in spending vast sums on a player with a history of injuries.

Owen Hargreaves' career at Manchester United has been severely affected by tendinitis since the England midfield player's £20.2m move from Bayern Munich two years ago. Yet Benítez has no doubts about Aquilani's talent and sees him as a greater goal threat than Alonso, and a more physical presence.

The Liverpool manager also believes his latest signing can benefit from his unfortunate situation. "Maybe it can help Alberto that he won't be thrown straight in," Benítez said. "It's never easy to settle down at a new club in a new country, so if he had to play straight away it would be difficult for him and people might start talking about him not being ready.

"We were playing Oldham in a friendly on Wednesday and he watched with me. We spoke about pre-season, the roles of players and he knows now. Not playing straight away will also give him a chance to improve his English, and that will make it easier."

Aquilani hopes that he will not be compared with Alonso. "He was a very important player at this club. But I am not his natural substitute as I do not have the same characteristics as him," he said. "I have a different style in that I like to move around and not stay in the same place."

The Italian said he was looking forward to rubbing shoulders with Steven Gerrard after labelling his new teammate "the strongest midfielder in the world". Yet Gerrard is involved in his own personal fitness race to lead the team out on Sunday.

The Liverpool captain has been receiving intensive treatment since withdrawing from the England squad for Wednesday's friendly in Holland because of a groin injury. "As our game is on the Sunday, then maybe Steven will have a chance," Benítez said. "If it was on Saturday it would be more difficult."

 

[Jumbo_]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Love the random mention of Hargreaves and the random inflated price tag

 

[Neoexodus]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Yeah, when is Hardgreaves coming back? He seems like the Rosicky of Manchester. lol

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Apparantly September. Personally I doubt it.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

abhi, if what alberto said about roma medical staff is correct, than that's a very good news for u, and for alberto of course.

 

[Ernestito]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I am very confident of livorno this season. I would be really surprised and disappointed if they get relegated.

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Yeh, doing something like that in the San Siro requires balls.

If you want to see Aquiliani at his true best, watch him in the Super Coppa versus Inter about 3 years ago, the game where Inter won 4-3. His first half performance (well, the whole Roma team) was majestic. He had us on the ropes, literally, it was embarrassing. Roma are always play 'ballsy' when playing either Milan or Inter, but especially Inter, for some reason. But I really hope Rafa plays Aquiliani in his natural position, because this is what the Italy NT needs, an attacking midfielder, not another 'regista'. Maybe Gerarrd can play wider, giving Aquiliani room to operate.

while inter is a great team wich plays some pretty poor football.

Hey ... But we played decent in the TIM cup which is a good sign, Stanko even did a good job filling in for Cambiasso (who's out injured ). Still we need a playmaker, BADLY.

the problem is the way the uefa cup is conceived.... it doesn't gather enough media attention..... wich means less sponsor money and less tv rights related money.

so it turns out that a uefa cup campaign doesn't bring money to a club... actually it drains money. all the tv rights money and match prizes are wasted in bonuses for the players.

plus facing a serious uefa cup campaign implies lots of expenses and problems. u need to enlarge your roster to guarrantee some rotation, wich means new signings and new contracts..
and such a deep roster can cause big issues. coz if u don't reach the final phase of the cup, those new signings will waste most of their season on the bench, complaining about the lack of playtime and creating even more troubles in the dressing room.

Well made point. I'd didn't consider that. Nice to see Italian clubs being financially responsible.

Anyone watching the Juve - Milan game tonight? I'm looking forward to seeing Diego. I thought Branca made him a priority last season seeing as out of all the serie A sides we need a playmaker most... hopefully he will flop badly so we don't live to regret it. Speaking of flopping badly, what's going on with Dinho, season hasn't started yet and he's already losing form My friend says Dinho was spotted clubbing late last night, and some fans were yelling at him, telling him to home and sleep because he had training in the morning Should be a good game tho

 

[jmg721]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Well, with the Serie A season starting up in a few hours...I thought I'd make an appearence to this thread. It took me a couple days to read through all the summer posts. I was afraid that it would be all about transfer rumors and speculation...but there were some incredible reads in there. I'd actually like to go back and re-read some of those essays Ben

A few topics I'd like to discuss:

Abate's Long passing - I will admit, I hadn't thought it was anything above average from watching his time at Torino. But I hope I'm wrong. He was one of the players this season that really caught my eye, and I hope he develops further(even at his old age )

Napoli's signings - LOVE THEM!! I was very impressed with their off-season, and like the versitility of their roster. The answer to the "who is Hamsik's back up", is either they go to a MF of Blasi, Gargano & Cigarini...or they put Datolo in that spot. Speaking of which, I saw they loaned Vitale out to Livorno. Does that mean that Zuniga and Datolo will compete for the LWB role?

Fiorentina - I'm not the biggest fan of how many players they have lost this off-season. I was really hoping they would not necessarily sign people...but keep the people they had to make a run in Europe. But with the lack of depth behind Gilardino(just castillo), and having injury prone Marchioni, Santana & Mutu...I'm not thrilled with the attack. But even more worried about the depth in the MF. Zanetti(if healthy), Montolivo, Donadel & Kuzmanovic. You figure 4 players to play 3 roles...That is fine, but it would be nice to have better options than Gobbi & Jorgenson as depth for those roles. There is also the chance they will stick with the formation having Vargas as a LMF, and play Pasqual at LB. Here is my main issue: they might be fine because of the vesatility of their players, but they lack the depth IMO that is needed to compete in all games they'll be playing. What are they doing with all that extra money they have accumulated this off season? Oh plus, All I've been hearing is that they've been going after CBs....really? They have Dainelli(captain), Gamberini, Koldrup & Natali....sounds like their strength in numbers. To me another CF/SS, CMF/DMF, or RB are more needed. It'll also be interesting to see an improved Jovetic on the pitch with Mutu(whom he really filled in for).

Genoa - Just really like the smart moves they made after selling 2 of their best players. They IMO have improved as a team.

PS3 - Congrats Ben on purchasing the new system...I have yet to do it myself. Well, it sounds like you are already getting into FIFA a bit, and PES comes out in a couple months. But if you decide PES is more to your liking...I know where you can find some quality Serie A stats for your game And an addition of your voice to our threads would be a pleasure.

I'm surprised there hasn't been many predictions of who will be relagated, and who will be in europe.

Alright Ben, your descriptions of a summer in Sicily convinced me...that is where I need to be next summer

I hope everyone is well, and are ready for an AWESOME Serie A season, and a race for the Champions League Spots....as we all know Inter is going to run away with the title

 

[gib2504]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Hey guys.

Great news for UK guys ESPN have picked up Serie A coverage

Tonight it's Milan v Siena, it's been a while since Serie A was on tv here, so my knowledge is a bit rusty, I was wondering if someone could pick out some players from Siena to watch out for, or things like formation etc.

 

[Love Like Rockets !.]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

everybody, juventus won the trofeo tim, naananananan, forza alex !.

 

[jmg721]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

@gib - unforunitely the best part about Siena last season for me was Zuniga and Kharja...both are now on other squads. They did pick up Fini from Cagliari who was the assist champ last season. They really are lacking many players with flash. Maybe the addition of Reginaldo with be fun to watch.

 

[gib2504]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I just looked at their squads and there are not alot of players I've heard of

Jarolim, Maccarone, Corvia and Codrea, it'll be a learning experience then.

Looking forward to the game