Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

20 years ago died the best "libero" we ever had in italy, better than Franco Baresi imo: Gaetano Scirea
552 matches with juventus,78 with NT, no red cards in his whole career!

he was not the greatest libero in italy.... he was the greatest libero in the history of football. period.
and arguably one of the nicests, most gentle, delicate, polite and classy persons ever to grace the football pitch.
he changed the whole concept of the libero role. he reinvented it, and mastered it as no one ever did.

the comparison with baresi can't be done imo, as baresi was something in between; a bit of a libero and a bit of a centre back. both legends though; certainly the greatests central defenders in history (along with kaiser franz)
respect.

edit:
it would be impossible for me to describe what a great person, what a gentle man gaetano scirea was.... just to put things in the right perspective, paolo maldini and alessandro del piero.... 2 of the classiest players out there today... they would look like joey barton, compared to gaetano.... and i'm serious.

just 3 little things to give an idea of what i'm talking about.
no one ever saw him screaming on the pitch... he never yelled at the ref, at his teammates neither at his opponents......

during an italy match cabrini made a foul the ref didn't notice. gaetano stopped the game by getting the ball and told the ref there was a foul against us....
when cabrini, years later, told this story, he said "i told gaetano - what are u doing? - and he replied - u can't expect people to trust u, if u act innocent when u're not.

one last story. an italian ref once said that during a juve inter match, gaetano approached him and told him "mister that yellow card u showed to my teammate... that was a mistake".
the ref said he felt guilty. because, knowing gaetano, he knew he couldn't say lies.... so he though "damn, i must have done a mistake then".

this was gaetano scirea. the juve main end at the juventus stadium is named "curva Scirea" for a reason

 

[*aLe]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

if martin actually scores, i'll come looking for u

I guess I've been lucky then that he didn't score.. I already imagined you with the 'classic' lupara trying to get me shot

capiche!?!

Tutto capii..
On a different note I've been forced to learn and understand a little bit of 'Siciliano' lately.. So I thought you'd be happy of hearing that
Baciamo le mani, don Bennì..

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I completely agree with you about Scirea as a player Ben...i think he was outstanding (although Beckenbauer might have been better).

Didn't know he was such a nice and fair player, good to know.

I remember i was shocked by his death.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I guess I've been lucky then that he didn't score.. I already imagined you with the 'classic' lupara trying to get me shot

yeah.... by the end of the 1st half i was already on my way to book a flight to bergamo..... to begin the "manhunt"

Tutto capii..
On a different note I've been forced to learn and understand a little bit of 'Siciliano' lately.. So I thought you'd be happy of hearing that
Baciamo le mani, don Bennì..

nice one buddy
althought the real godfather of the serie a thread remains Don Domenico (even though i tried to hide his identity by changing nickname)
btw what do u mean by "i've been forced to learn siciliano"
it sounds a bit creepy

I completely agree with you about Scirea as a player Ben...i think he was outstanding (although Beckenbauer might have been better).

Didn't know he was such a nice and fair player, good to know.

Gerd i saw plenty of matches of both (kaiser franz and scirea)... not "live" of course.
we're talking about legends here, so it's kinda hard to establish rankings.
they were both the closest thing to "defending perfection" u might imagine (along with baresi)..... but they were quite different in terms of style.
beckembauer was more of a "tough guy", he used to rely a lot on his phisique and his great sense of position, while gaetano's game was more based on his skills and vision (he didn't have the typical defender's build). gaetano was more "skilled". in terms of timing, vision and technique (ball control) gaetano was definitely better than franz..... a lot better.

trapattoni once said something funny, talking about them. he said "being marked by beckembauer is like having a train rushing against u at full throttle... when u see him coming, u can just pray...
being marked by scirea instead is like being marked by a ghost... u have the ball in control... and then suddenly u realise someone stole it from u... and u wonder what did just happen??"

and there's another good line from sacchi
"the greatests cornerstones in the art of defending are beckembauer and scirea. beckembauer taught the world how a libero should play... he pretty much invented the role. scirea took it to the next level, he changed the whole concept of defending and he reinvented the role"

as for his fair play, what gigimarulla said speaks for itself. 20 years of carreer as a professional footballer.... playing as a libero (wich was the tough guy of the starting 11)... and not even a single red card.... it's just amazing.

sandro ciotti, a famous italian journalist said about him "his achievements made him a juventus icon... his skills made him a football icon.... but it's his innate sensibility and kindness that made him an all around, world-wide icon"

i think that's enough quotations for a single post

 

[Neoexodus]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Pandev seems to be moving in January to Inter, as a replacement for Etoo (out for the Africans cup). How as he been playing lately? Good or a bad business? Next Mancini perhaps?

 

[gigimarulla]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

pandev is absolutely better than mancini ( i have to admit that imo mancini is one of the most overrated players in Serie A)....inthe last period he's not playing because he didn' accept to sign a new contract with lazio but he's a fantastic player,growing every year.
he,s absolutely different from eto'o,because he likes to start his action far from the area, using his great dribble skills and can also playas trequartista. so,not a killer like the ex-barça but however a great forward,probably mourinho would try him as a wing in his crazy 4-2-4 .
by the way, a great sign fo inter if what you've written is true

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Pandev is too good to play as second fiddle to Eto'o IMO.

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I hope that's not true. Inter would not be a good move for him career-wise I don't think. He'll probably not get that much playing time and a player like him deserves to be playing every week.

 

[*aLe]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

btw what do u mean by "i've been forced to learn siciliano"
it sounds a bit creepy

The girl I was dating is from there and tried to teach me something.. The results have been disappointing though >

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Inter's squad can hope without Eto'o to be fair. Yes he's a great player but I think they'll switch to 4-3-3 with Milito on his own with Mancini and Quaresma getting a run of games, Sneijder can play out wide also.

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Some Roma fans protest departure of Spalletti, lack of any real signings and departure of Aquilani and ask for Rosella to go away. I heard only like 500 people did this though. :/

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Kaladze OMG!!!

 

[Jumbo_]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I know he's played in Italy for a long time but that is just silly

 

[juveboy]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Kaladze OMG!!!

Grazie

I don't understand many of Lippi's choices and can't help but think this is the weakest Italy team for some time. There's no magic in the side once provided by Totti or Del Piero, little creativity in the middle of the park (Pirlo is well past his best) and 4 Juventus defenders and a keeper aside, the whole team is pretty average.

The promising young players of 5 years ago such as Cassano, Gilardino, D'Agostino and Bonera to name 4 should be leaders in the side by now, but they're not for various reasons. That has meant that Italia face the 2010 World Cup with too many players who seem past their prime such as Zambrotta and Gattuso, and too many younger inexperienced players like Santon.

The solution to the creativity issue in attack is obviously Cassano. Lippi needs to swallow his pride and call him up like Donadoni did

 

[Abhishek]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I'll say it again. Sacking Donadoni was a huge mistake. The team he was building had huge potential.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

YouTube - the best save ever-buffon

 

[Neoexodus]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

O M G

Unbelievable...



EDIT:

Whats up with the " AC Milan possibly being sold to Khadafi"? Speculation? Is Berlusconi willing to do that or is this just media speculation?

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Wasn't Kahdafi somehow involved in Juventus ?

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I highly doubt Berlusconi will ever sell the club. Wish he doesn't.

No business expert but maybe just an investing offer was made...

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

That's a great reaction save! Not the best ever though. I've seen superman himself lol aka Buffon make better saves!

I always call him Superman among friends because he's the best goalkeeper I personally ever had the pleasure of watching. Wonder what his nickname is though? He must have some Italian nickname the media gave him or something? It's not Superman?

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Grazie

I don't understand many of Lippi's choices and can't help but think this is the weakest Italy team for some time. There's no magic in the side once provided by Totti or Del Piero, little creativity in the middle of the park (Pirlo is well past his best) and 4 Juventus defenders and a keeper aside, the whole team is pretty average.

The promising young players of 5 years ago such as Cassano, Gilardino, D'Agostino and Bonera to name 4 should be leaders in the side by now, but they're not for various reasons. That has meant that Italia face the 2010 World Cup with too many players who seem past their prime such as Zambrotta and Gattuso, and too many younger inexperienced players like Santon.

The solution to the creativity issue in attack is obviously Cassano. Lippi needs to swallow his pride and call him up like Donadoni did

this ain't gonna change mate. we'll have to wait the world cup.... after another humiliating tournament, the federcalcio won't renew lippi's contract, and we will finally be able to "move on".

as u and abhi said, it was a disgraceful decision to fire donadoni.... actually it's funny.... before euro 2008, donadoni was told by the federcalcio that a decent result would have been a semi-final (wich means "if u'll reach at least the semi-finals we won't fire u").

now i won't even bother talking about the arrogance showed by the federcalcio (a semi-final a decent result??!!!! then i assume winning the competition would have been an "slightly more than average result" ).

anyhow that's what they asked donadoni before the beginning of the competition....then euro 2008 started.... donadoni lost cannavaro...., then he lost barzagli, then panucci and then gattuso. and it doesn't end here; as soon as the competition began, it was pretty evident some of our key players (camoranesi and toni) were in a horrible horrible form).
so, did the expectations changed given the situation? no way. with an untested brand new defensive line, without the 2 most important defensive players of our spine (cannavaro and gattuso) donadoni was still supposed to reach a semi-final AT LEAST!!!
even though that meant going through a group stage with Netherlands, France and Romania ( )........
and the craziest thing is donadoni almost did it!!! we reached the quarters finals, where we faced Spain (the team wich will eventually win the whole thing), wich, for the records, didn't even manage to beat us in 90 minutes. they needed the penalties to "kick us out of the competition".
Now, i'm not nitpicking here, they defeninitely deserved to beat us.... i'm just tryng to say they weren't able to score (as well as we weren't) in the 90 minutes.

donadoni was just 1 penalty far from the semi-finals.... with all the problems he had to face... and still this wasn't enough to save his job
he had to face one of the toughests challenges a coach can face. taking the place of a living legend like lippi, who just won a world cup.... he had to face a tremendous "generation-change" with nesta and totti retiring and many other players getting old....... and the hardest task of them all... he had to give new motivations to the players who won the most important trophy u can get with a national team.....
he faced all theese challenges; in 2 years he gave italy a completely new shape. new players, new formation, new schemes..... for the first time in ages italy was playing some beautiful football (we always played great football, but let's be honest, not really "beautiful").
and still now he's gone.

seriously what a stupid decision this was... for all the people who got involved.... for italy, as our team is now playing the most boring, uneffective, and annoying football since trapattoni's days.... and for lippi himself... i mean when he left, he was praised like a God. he's always been a world class coach, but the world cup victory and the way he won it, gave him a divine aura and brought people to even overrate him... as if he was not only one of the best coaches in the world, but also one of the best in history (wich, let's be honest, he's not). in italy he was more respected than the pope!
now instead no one can stand him.


however, even though i agree his pick ups are very very questionable (my ideal starting 11 would be completely different from lippi's one), i don't think the players are the main issue here. i mean the confederations cup italy squad had an average age of 28 (wich is not old at all) and our starting 11 could easily kick the shit out of any other team in the world (except argentina and spain) on a constant basis.
the main problem is the football we play. we didn't lost against brazil, coz brazil has a better team (because they're not better than italy)... we lost because brazil played better football than us......
right now, almost all the top national teams in the world play a better football than us. that's our main issue: the quality of our football, not the personnel.

pirlo is not past his prime.... coz anytime his teammates do their job, he comes out with outstanding performances. the problem is having a god like pirlo playing in teams with absolutely no movement without the ball (like milan and italy) is like having a ferrari with no tyres: it's just useless.

however there's just no point in talking about it, as this situation is not gonna change until the end of the next world cup.

That's a great reaction save! Not the best ever though. I've seen superman himself lol aka Buffon make better saves!

I always call him Superman among friends because he's the best goalkeeper I personally ever had the pleasure of watching. Wonder what his nickname is though? He must have some Italian nickname the media gave him or something? It's not Superman?

actually i don't think he has any nicknames at all.... at least i never heard it. usually we just call him Gigi.
however yes, that's a great save, but not his best.... in a "gigi buffon' greatests saves list" that save wouldn't even make the top 3.

btw nice new avatar bro!

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Although Buffon is a great goal keeper, i'm not sure he's the best ever.
To name a few that could (also) called the best ever: Yashin - Banks - Zoff - Southall - Schmeichel - Preudhomme - Fillol - Maier.

My favourites in that list: Southall and Schmeichel.

But it is a great save of course.

 

[gigimarulla]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

i'd add two of my favourite goalkeepers to your list,gerd: jean marie pfaff and rinat dasaev

about buffon , he's absolutely great but i think that angelo "tyson" peruzzi was better than him: i've never seen a keeper that was better than peruzzi in 1 vs 1 situations for example...

by the way,i'd like to know in wich matches Italy played good football with donadoni as lo zio said: france in last euro cup? i really can't remember this quality football he said, even if i agree with his opinions about the last lippi's choices

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

by the way,i'd like to know in wich matches Italy played good football with donadoni as lo zio said: france in last euro cup? i really can't remember this quality football he said, even if i agree with his opinions about the last lippi's choices

we were poor in the euro cup, as i said.... and donadoni had plenty of valid exscuses (like i said). it doesn't matter how good u prepare a tournament, there's always the chance u'll miss a couple of key players for injury when the tournament is about to begin.... and then there's also to consider the poor form of some other players (like i said).....

but however that euro cup represent just a little bit (4 matches) of donadoni's path as italy's coach (16 matches)..... and it would be unfair not to mention what he did in those 2 years before the euro cup..... those others 12 matches are the ones i'm referring to, when i talk about italy's football under donadoni..... of all those 12 matches, just the first 2 were pretty poor (but those 2 matches were played in summer, just 1 and 2 months after the world cup, when all our starters were still on holydays).... italy's football quality has been constantly improving after those 2 first matches.... and i still remember those days i was actually looking foward international fixtures, to watch italy playing (wich is something i never felt before nor after donadoni's era. )

as for peruzzi, yeah he was an outstanding keeper.... overall not quite on par with buffon imo, but really close to him (say, on the same standards of julio cesar and casillas..... actually maybe he was even better than them). and you're right about his skill in 1 on 1 situations.... he was immense also in communication (he was the real leader of lazio's defensive line).

Although Buffon is a great goal keeper, i'm not sure he's the best ever.

wich is why Sina said he's the best he's ever seen
besides it's impossible to tell wich was the greatest player ever... in any role.
it's pretty much as the scirea-beckembauer conversation we had a few days ago.
the only reasonable thing we can say is that they were (along with baresi) the greatests ever.... trying to pick the best among them, that's just speculation... they belong to different eras. football was different, the players were different species of athletes, so it's impossible to establish any sort of "ranking".

i can't say buffon is the greatest ever, also because i haven't seen enough of zoff.... and i never saw yashin and banks.... the only thing i can say is (like Sina said) he's the best i've ever seen.

gerd, is that Giannini in your avatar? the pic is too little and i can't be sure

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

It is indeed Giannini...together with Redondo my all-time favourite player.

gigimarulla: i forgot Dasaev, how could i...

I definitely did not forget Pfaff. I never even considered Pfaff the best belgian goalkeeper. Pfaff had indeed amazing reflexes. He could stop shots no other keeper could have stopped, but he also made silly mistakes...
Having been a goalkeeper myself, i can tell you that the most spectacular goalkeepers are not the best...that's what i liked about Dassaev and Southall...

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Exactly. I can't say Buffon IS the best goalkeeper ever because I'm 22 years old and although I've been watching football religiously for as long as I can remember, that still means, I've never had the pleasure of watching those classic players like Yashin or Zoff or Banks myself. Just a few highlights here and there which is not enough to truly judge someone's quality. After all they are 'highlights' of their saves and not the whole 90 mins and their every action and like you said most often, goalkeepers who make those unbelievable 'reflex' saves get all the attention but aren't the true greats. It's the same with Beckenbauer, Pele greats which most of us unlike you Gerd haven't had the pleasure of watching due to being younger.

Furthermore, even if I had, I couldn't say he IS or isn't the best because I agree with Ben, this type of 'ranking' is really hard! And usually pointless. One thing we can agree on is that they're all legends and great! Now who's greater? That depends on a million factors and extremely hard to judge and it's somewhat objective anyway.

But in all the years I've been watching and following all these leagues etc. Gigi is THE best goalkeeper I've ever seen! When Schmeichel was in his prime, I was a kid. I remember him and the Man Utd then too, he looked like the REAL f'n deal as well!! AMAZING! But I was very young and can't remember all THAT much where as with Gigi, I've seen his whole career since he was a youngster at Parma. Sadly I don't think he's been as good as he used to be recently which is why Julio Cesar is I'd say the best GK in Serie A even right now but he's still young for a goalie and an absolute legend so I think he can recover and once again become THE best!

----------------------------------

About the avatar, it was about time! He's one of my all-time fav players. A true living legend. Classy on and off the pitch. Inter Milan Legend. Argentina's most capped player and in his prime, for me the best RB in the world. The guy is just class. I'll never forget him! Loyal. Professional! Not enough can be said about him!
One of the few true greats left still in this game! With Maldini retiring and Del Piero luckily still around.
-----------------------------------------

About Angelo Peruzzi, I have to say he is one of the most under-rated goalkeepers ever as people usually didn't give him enough credit! So I'm a big fan! The guy was fantastic! Even when people wrote him off and he was getting older, he still showed how freaking amazing he was and you're right, his ability in 1-on-1 situations was shockingly good!!
I still remember a certain Lazio match a few years ago, where he saved like four or five excellent 1-on-1' breakaways in the space of like first 30 mins of the 2nd half! haha I can't recall who they were facing, but the opposition's strikers were left wondering, what the hell!!! How the hell can I Score!! looool

Overall though, I would NOT say he was better than Buffon. Buffon was the best in the world, Peruzzi wasn't Italy's best. But 2nd best at some point and hence still among the best in the world. But yah I wouldn't rate him at the same level either. He was great! He wasn't super-man! lol He was just a notch below the very best. Just slightly below the top of the mountain!

p.s. Weird, no nicknames? lol.. well I guess Gigi does the job! haha

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

PLF: first of all, about the avatar...i completely agree Zanetti is aa legend. One of the most underestimated players in the world.

About "the best" player...of course Ben is right (he always is). Football is a team sport and it ain't no use to give individual awards (that's why i don't like competiotions like Ballon D'or, players like Ronaldo can shine because of the work rate of players like Carrick, Fletcher, Diarra and Alonso to name a few). Furthermore you can't compare players from "old times" with current players (although younger people tend to underestimate players from the 60's, the 70's and the 80's). So i agree with Ben, but on the other hand it is fun to copmile lists of "best" players...it's pub talk, but that's what we are doing here...harmless fun.

PS: you are 22 years old...jesus...i wish i still had that age...i'm 47 years old...i could easily be your dad (i know that is not a comfortable thought).

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

PS: you are 22 years old...jesus...i wish i still had that age...i'm 47 years old...i could easily be your dad (i know that is not a comfortable thought).

your id card can't show your real age, Gerd. that's just your official age. but time is relative and youth is a state of mind, so don't pay any attention to the birthdate on that little piece of paper.
u enjoy football conversations with men in their 20s in this football forum, u still have that "sturm und drang" inside your soul that people usually loose when they're 19 (unfortunately), u enjoy your father experience to a wide degree (as we learned from your son's football team's season thread) and u still enjoy your playstation time. despite your life experience, u still mantain the curiosity of a kid (and that's probably your best quality) .....and i'm also pretty sure most of the guys in this forum (me included i'm afraid) couldn't keep up with u on a bicycle.
so don't pay attention to your id card.... as far as i can tell, u're clearely under 30......
besides 47 is not "old" at all! as far as i can tell, u can't call yourself old as long as u can enjoy things in life.
i'm 29, and yet, any time my girl starts talking about marriage, i suddenly turn into a 15 years old kid ...like i said, time is relative.

About the avatar, it was about time! He's one of my all-time fav players. A true living legend. Classy on and off the pitch. Inter Milan Legend. Argentina's most capped player and in his prime, for me the best RB in the world. The guy is just class. I'll never forget him! Loyal. Professional! Not enough can be said about him!
One of the few true greats left still in this game! With Maldini retiring and Del Piero luckily still around.

completely agree with every single word, man. a great football player and (even more important) a great man. he has one weakness though..... during an interview last year a journalist asked him:
- javier, there's something i always wanted to ask u. what's wrong with your hair? even after 90 minutes of furious football, your hair are always perfect! is that gel that u use? or maybe is cement?
(javier) - infact this is my only weakness. i take a lot of care of my hair.... maybe too much. i spend lots of time in front of the mirror every day to have them exactly as i want.... and my teammates usually make fun of me for this. quite often in the dressing room when i'm done with my hair, they come from behind and mess them up. i hate it."


and here i thought that was just a wig.... i thought those were way too "steady" to be real hair.

 

[Jumbo_]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Thats quality.

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

(javier) - infact this is my only weakness. i take a lot of care of my hair.... maybe too much. i spend lots of time in front of the mirror every day to have them exactly as i want.... and my teammates usually make fun of me for this. quite often in the dressing room when i'm done with my hair, they come from behind and mess them up. i hate it."


and here i thought that was just a wig.... i thought those were way too "steady" to be real hair.

That's f'n brilliant!! hahaha

By the way awesome reply to Gerd! Took the words out of my mouth.