Re: Serie A Thread
u brought many points, Dominic (
), so i'll try to quote and reply
There have been so many bad calls this season that it's just ridiculous.
In games in the Premiership, La Liga, Bundesliga, Ligue 1 and even in the Eredivisie, you wouldn't see this many biased calls you do in Italy nowadays. Real Madrid doesn't get even a third of what Inter gets. Or in matches that inter benefit indirectly from.Yes since Calciopoli these events get highlighted exxagerated, but again.. when every week it's the same story, suspisions will rise.
true. but none of the leagues u mentioned had to face an emergency like the one collina had to face. most of our "level 1 refs" (the highest class) disappeared in a couple of weeks.
they have been replaced by "noobs" who were supposed to work in serie c. Rosetti was a 4th class ref till 2 years ago.... today he's a first pick.... and not because he improved.... because all the ones who were ahead of him were tore apart from calciopoli.
that's something we already knew at the beginning of the season. and collina himself said it this summer "
there will be mistakes, wrong calls, more than ever, due to the lack of experience of our refs and the pressure all our refs will have to face after the scandal will definitely effect also the most experienced ones. so it will be extremely important that our presindents and press realise this and give time to theese guys... "
all our presidents and reporters agreed... but of course it was just a "formal" agreement coz at the first wrong call of the season, our presindents (all of them) and newspapers were already attacking the refs, raising stupid suspicions, raising the fans pressure...
there's a simple reason for the mistakes we witnessed this season... people like orsato, de marco, they were refereeing in serie c just yesterday.... and now they're facing the hardest challenge for a ref. working in serie a after calciopoli.
deprive la liga or die bundesliga of their best 10 referees, and u will see the same happening there too.
Every other match day it's Inter getting a favorable call that skews the results... Handballs off heads, yellows for taps on the shoulders, penalties for coughing on a player. This sounds like a sore loser speaking, but does that make everybody in Serie A a sore loser?
Because everyone attacks the refs after a defeat from Inter(I know some of these comments have to take with some nuance, but if it becomes the rule instead of the exception..). I wonder why teams don't react this way when they lose from Roma or Juve or Empoli, but they always act like sore losers only when they lose from Inter.
2 points.
first. in every league in europe, the top class teams always receive a more favours than the mid class teams from the refs. so there's no surprise if most of the wrong calls are in their favour. here in italy this situation is even more evident for the reasons i mentioned before (the lack of experience and personality of most of our refs).... and definitely we're not helping them being "cool" on the pitch.
by saying top teams, i mean mainly inter, roma, milan and juve.
i know u might find ridiculous (saying that juve received a "good treatement").... but Don, if u would be a parma, a catania, a torino fan... if u would watch every week those team's maches (entire matches) u would realise that juve receives a "good treatement" compared to what those teams face every week.
this usually happens because top teams have star players, who usually gets much more attention from the referees.... and it happens also because the "end of the table" teams usually have a much more aggressive approach to the matches... so when a ref has a doubt... his decision will usually go in a specific direction.
the more the refs are experienced, the less u see this kind of mistakes of course.
2nd point. the following statement is absolutely wrong, mate
I wonder why teams don't react this way when they lose from Roma or Juve or Empoli, but they always act like sore losers only when they lose from Inter.
every week at the end of each match u got a loser team complaining about the ref. this is one of the worst things about italian footy.
we dismantled empoli yesterday.... but empoli team director, as soon as the match ended, was attacking the ref, pretending his mistakes were decisive for the result. the same thing foschi (palermo team director) did in the first match against empoli,earlier this season (even though empoli destroyed us, deserving to win).
this happens every week for every fucking match, for every team. from cagliari to inter.
but u probably won't ever know about all the complaints against empoli or cagliari, cos they don't reach the international spotlight.
i'm sure u don't know what Pozzi said after palermo - empoli, yesterday. but i'm absolutely sure u know about totti's complaints after inter - roma.
it's pretty normal, afterall. inter, juve, roma, they "sell newspapers". teams like empoli or palermo don't.
but anybody who lives in italy will confirm what i'm saying. every week, every loosing team express its complaints about the ref after the match.
it's part of our culture, unfortunately.
Now i really wonder why is that ? Is it because they are sore losers or because the referee was helping Inter and killing the other teams ?
I'd accept it's a coincidence if it happens once or twice, but it happens match after match.
not really. honestly there were many wrong calls in inter's favour in the past 5 weeks.... before those 5 weeks inter wasn't helped at all by the refs. but of course nobody remembers it now.
if inter would have been helped by the referees for the whole season as much as they have been helped lately, then u would find "inter" at the top of that list i posted before... but, as u can see, inter is 4th, behind cagliari, milan and roma. and seeing such a little club as cagliari at the top of that list, is something really important,imo
just take a look at palermo. i watched all our matches so far (of course). and i can tell u most of the wrong calls during our matches were at our favour (i don't know something like the 80, 90% maybe). i can honestly admit we have been extremely lucky so far this season.... but of course we're not at the top of the table, so no one notice it, and no newspapers throw shit on palermo.
nontheless the favorable calls inter got so far are probably not even the half of the favorable call palermo got
Inter is a huge stimulus in this investigation and Juventus and to a lesser extent Milan get punished. There is not quite proof of an actual crime and Juventus get punished because of suspicions.
Today there is one team benefitting from refereeing errors, with all other teams losing point because of them.
Mind you, this is a simple timeline. It is not an opinion. It's a timeline
sorry Dominic, but when u say:
Today there is one team benefitting from refereeing errors, with all other teams losing point because of them.
u actually are expressing an opinion. and u're basing the timeline on that opinion. because there's not 1 team benefitting from refereeing mistakes. palermo and napoli, as example got much more favours than inter. but, once again, inter is on top of the table.. so inter is the only one to attack.
Inter is a huge stimulus in this investigation and Juventus and to a lesser extent Milan get punished. There is not quite proof of an actual crime and Juventus get punished because of suspicions.
what do u mean by saying "stimulus"? it is a pubblic inquiry napoli's magistrates got their assignements and no one can contribute in any way to the investigations.
talking about the lack of proof.... that's not correct. we don't know yet wich are the evidences because the trial is not over yet and the 2 magistrates (beatrice and narducci) will keep the evidence secret until the end of the 2nd phase of the trial (according to the italian laws.... well, actually according to every criminal law code in europe).
we weren't able to know those evidences because when the "sport trial" ended 2 years ago, the criminal trial wasn't even began. and the napoli magistrates told the "sport magistrates" not to reveal the incriminating infos (and the tapes).
those tapes we heard about are probably nothing, compared to what the napoli magistrates discovered.... we just have to wait, and we'll know.
Inter have also been a driving force in Calciopoli 1. It's not normal for a team to interfere. A team can complain, they can't go and "investigate" stuff on their own. And it is especially weird that the team who instigated Calciopoli 1, would so hugely benefit in the leagues following Calciopoli.
no, mate the napoli magistrates discovered everything while they were doing some other investigations... they got the tape and a new inquiry began. it was not inter the one who started everything.
but what we know it's that 4 years ago a serie a referee (can't remember the name) went to moratti and told him everything about moggi. moratti told him to inform the italian magistrates about it, but that idiot didn't. so moratti tried to start a private investigation. his aim was to collect some evidence so that he would have been able to accuse moggi.
i have to be honest... i would have done the same thing.
Fremm said:
This league is weak face it..I'm a loyal Juve supporter, but we have played a lot of shitty games this season and we're still in 3rd place! Milan is doing fuck all, Lazio, Palermo and all other potentially good teams aren't up too par either
sorry Fremm but i really disagre on this.
from a neutral point of view (i don't think any of u consider me biased) i can say this is one of the best season i ever witnessed in my life.
the quality of the football has never been so high.
for the first time in ages we're "producing" a better football than la liga's one..... and the comparison with the premiership is honestly embarassing (for the premiership, i mean).
if we except the last month inter has been a fucking machine. they are winning the league by playing terrific football and they would be leading every league in europe by now.
roma and fiorentina improved a lot since last season, and i can remember just 2, maybe 3 boring matches played by them.
juventus has been awesome this season. their football is not good looking that's for sure, but as i said before, football is not a beauty contest. the hunger, the determination, the tactical discipline they showed so far is fantastic and deserves credit. and it's quite obvious they would be third also in premiership , bundes and la liga by now (and they would probably be 2nd in france).
then behind the top teams there's a huuge group of teams, who are getting each season better. udinese, sampdoria, palermo, atalanta. theese are our mid class teams.... I defy any of u guys to prove me wrong, when i say theese teams are all stronger than their english, spanish, german and french counterparts.
not to mention genoa and napoli, who just reached serie a.
shall we compare genoa or napoli to derby or birmingham??
or maybe o murcia and levante???
shall we compare the quality of our "end of the table teams" to their english or spanish counterparts????
the only disappointing teams so far this season have been lazio and milan..... and honestly, both of them were expected to underperform since the beggining of the season (or at least i did expect them to underperform).
if palermo is not doing so well Fremm, it's because the quality and the toughness of serie a has never been so high. there's a fantastic balance in the middle of the table, so, even 1 mistake becomes decisive.
everybosy praises serie a old glories.... but theese are all bullshits. inter is killing the reace for the title, that's true, but there's a fantastic competition just behind inter.
Fremm u talk about juventus "shitty football".... but do u remember about capello's real madrid last season???
or about mourinho's chelsea 2 seasons ago???
and, talking about this season.... do u really like bayern's footbal?? do u find it good looking?.
nontheless all of theese teams (capello's madrid, mourinho's chelsea and hitzfeld's bayern did\are doing even better than juventus in their own leagues..... doesn't this suggest u something???? :whistle:
, don't look for non-existents skeletons in the cupboards, and just enjoy the fantastic season juventus is going through :beer:
