The referee thread: discuss referees and their decisions

Then you don't know what pedagogics is... the point is, I don't need instructions on how to make friends on a forum, because I know how to do that. I just choose not to.
 
I can only think that pedagogics is the study of how to be a douche on a forum, you will get a 1st i'm sure :DD

People can go into the Arsenal thread and see what you actually said about Graham and how wrong you were...if they can be bothered.

At least now I know that I should ignore a lot of what you say from now on.

Anyway, this thread should go back on topic.
 
Dazzlà said:
i like the ref that gave suarez a penalty
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Can't believe I'm saying this but its days like today where I can see the benefits of a player with Suarez or Bale`s skills. I agree with Gerd that in the end I believe it all kinda evens out in a competition but perhaps SAF needs to train our players to do a better job falling inside the box, rather than somewhere along the way.

I kid, I kid....sorta...:PIRATE:

BTW didn't see the pool goals so I'm not saying the penalty today was BC of a dive.
 
Sabatasso said:
I want you to say straight out how "wrong" I were, because I didn't see anyone refute my points.
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You asked the question 'Why was Graham sacked if he was so successful?' you had no clue that he was sacked because he took a bung. That was the first major flaw in your argument about him.

Secondly you said that graham didn't lead spurs to the league cup final. Implying that he came late on to the fold, when in fact he missed only one early match against Brentford.

You had such a strong opinion on that subject and your facts were just wrong. You didn't acknowledge how badly wrong you were and instead concentrated on trying to make your ridiculously off topic argument with Norway that only yourself will ever understand why.....because it was pointless :DD

You tried to make Edmundo look stupid and anybody with half a brain can see that you were the one with the extremely Poor argument and on that occasion not very clued up wih what you were talking about.
 
The initial argument was something in the lines that I said that Wenger was heaven sent for Arsenal, and the best thing that has ever happened to the club, which nobody refuted.

My argument about Graham was the he is incapable of achieving anything without a very strong team, that his managerial skills is lacking, which I proved. Why he was sacked didn't really have anything to do with my point at all, but you'd ofcourse need at least half a brain to understand that.
 
Sabatasso said:
As I said, this is all an act for my own personal amusement.
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Don't you think this makes you a troll?

I find it disturbing you get amusement from pissing people off.

If you want to stay on these boards you'll need to change that mentality.
 
Sabatasso said:
The initial argument was something in the lines that I said that Wenger was heaven sent for Arsenal, and the best thing that has ever happened to the club, which nobody refuted.

My argument about Graham was the he is incapable of achieving anything without a very strong team, that his managerial skills is lacking, which I proved. Why he was sacked didn't really have anything to do with my point at all, but you'd ofcourse need at least half a brain to understand that.
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You tried to prove that he was shit by saying that Arsenal sacked him because he wasn't doing well, when the fact was he got sacked not because of his team or what he achieved, but because he took a bung. This was one of your points to back up your argument...it failed.

In your response just then, you didn't bring up what you said about Graham and the league cup with Spurs? why because that was also one of the main points of your argument of why Graham wasn't very good....you failed with that as well. What were your other points about Graham that proved your point? because from what I can see it's just you rambling and not having any clue what you are talking about.

:LOL: You are very good at causing arguments, not because of your intelligence (Which I think you have convinced yourself of, somehow you think you are manipulating people into an argument that gratifies you), but because it is like talking to a schizophrenic, making weak points and accusations that you can't back up and then saying you didn't say them etc and saying the other person is an idiot for pointing out your ridiculous and condescending posts.

Most people that are condescending have some sort of superior knowledge over somebody, I can respect that in some way. You are being condescending to people that have obviously superior knowledge over you (I'm not talking about me by the way)....it just doesn't make sense?! :LOL:

Lets get this back on topic....
 
The appallingly incorrect offside decision which denied Michael Laudrup's Swansea City a deserved point at West Bromwich Albion was not the only thing the manager said he found hard to understand after the game. Laudrup appeared almost equally nonplussed to learn the officials were not required to make themselves available to the media to offer some sort of explanation. Given Premier League referees have been professional for more than 10 years now, and by most people's standards reasonably well-paid professionals at that, this is as out-dated an attitude as it is self-defeating. After all, there might have been a good reason why the referee, Lee Mason, who was after all closer to the incident, did not point out to his assistant that the last two touches on the ball before it reached Roland Lamah were by Albion players and that, therefore, he was overruling the linesman's decision to flag the Swansea winger offside as he put the ball in the net. As it is, it is very hard to think of one.

From the Guardian's website.
 
Don't waste your time guys.

This Sabatasso dude is basically a slightly more intelligent version of Benni/Plan M/Ninjabreakz from Norway.
 
That Swansea decision was really poor, and yet another example that a 30 second break could have solved. 4th official and a screen and the rules of the game are applied properly.

There is no 'interpretation' here. It's just wrong.
 
haha that was over 1 meter lol

about Levante one , Im not so sure , as WHOLE ball should be over the line so maybe a 5% of ball still was on line ? just maybe it looks like whole ball goes in but not completly sure about it !
 
Nice stuff from Cruyff: "Theres a lot of talk about respect but thats not really working out.Look at the decision to appoint this Turkish guy as ref. His mother is probably the only one who knows who he is. Who in his right mind made the decision to award such a game to this guy."

Worries me that someone so involved in the game doesn't know who that ref is tbh. Footballers eh?
 
lol I see cruyff's just bitter because real madrid won and went through. not that he really cares about who's the opposite side or who were disfavoured against real. he's your typical Barcelona fan deeply hating Real Madrid. he sure would be very delighted if all the things in that game would be other way around and you wouldn't hear him talk the same old nonsense in his mind. I knew that he's certainly far from being a sensible guy especially on things about real madrid/barcelona but, now I got that he's apparently a person looks down on turks as well. racist bastard.

I've never thought that cüneyt çakır was right to send Nani off but I'm really starting to like that that decision did happen.

footballers? are they really supposed to know who the ref is? or are they supposed to take their actions knowing that whoever is the ref? to know about the referees and keep in mind their characteristics, I think that's really a difficult task for some young men who probably have never even finished a 100 pages book in their entire lives. also sounds really irrelevant to me.
 
Oops Kanouté...you come over as an intelligent guy and we often don't agree, but that isn't your best post...
To be honest, i tend to agree with Cruijff.
It seems a litle bit farfetched to suppose that every Barcelona fan automatically hates Madrid and vice versa. Cruijff is far too intelligent to react that way.
 
beachryan said:
Nice stuff from Cruyff: "Theres a lot of talk about respect but thats not really working out.Look at the decision to appoint this Turkish guy as ref. His mother is probably the only one who knows who he is. Who in his right mind made the decision to award such a game to this guy."

Worries me that someone so involved in the game doesn't know who that ref is tbh. Footballers eh?
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I thought he only comment on Barca match's but yeah he can't miss real too , this guy hate real more than he loves barca thats sure , his OFFICIALLY AN IDIOT ! was a read card or wasnt , lets say wasnt even a foul he should not made such a comment , and he wont if there isn't anything to do with Real Madrid or Barcelona !
 
Kanouté said:
footballers? are they really supposed to know who the ref is? or are they supposed to take their actions knowing that whoever is the ref? to know about the referees and keep in mind their characteristics, I think that's really a difficult task for some young men who probably have never even finished a 100 pages book in their entire lives. also sounds really irrelevant to me.
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Disagree completely with this. A manager's job is to prepare his team to win a match. And like it or not (as this thread raises the issue) different referees handle matches differently.

If know that Mike Dean is twice as likely to award penalties as Howard Webb, then I tell my defenders to be especially diligent in the box, and make sure not to touch any opposition players with a history of gravity issues. If I'm Fergie and I see a ref that has sent off 7 players for British teams in the last couple years, I'm damn well telling my team not to breath wrong on Madrid players because of that.

Similarly on Sunday, the ref in the Spurs/Pool match let a lot of stuff go, and so Liverpool were very 'tenacious' in making sure to make contact when closing down, which probably wore down Spurs players.

If I were a manager I'd be just as concerned with the referee as the other 11 players on the pitch, to be honest. He can make just as big a difference, after all.
 
I was only pointing out that it's not a task that most of the players could do on their own. and yes, I agree that it's something for the managers to deal with. fair enough.

beachryan said:
If I'm Fergie and I see a ref that has sent off 7 players for British teams in the last couple years, I'm damn well telling my team not to breath wrong on Madrid players because of that.
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yes it's something that you'd expect from a guy like alex ferguson but oh, good lord! you still sound bitter about cüneyt çakır and I wonder when this will end, beach. almost everybody on the planet earth agreed that he was wrong on that decision. I sincerely wish that this fact could change the things.

I know I'm like repeating myself but this was the guy's first serious game-deciding mistake on international level I've ever seen. I don't understand why he would be biased against British teams either. can you tell me that which one/ones of his recent red cards against players from british teams was wrong? I'd probably say none. yes, he's a referee who usually lets his cards do the talking but that's never a problem as long as he's right to give them. now the thing I wonder is, have you ever heard about this guy before that game? or about the high-profile games he officiated recently? and let alone his card record against british teams, did you ever know this guy's name before the game? I wouldn't be that bothered with it if people said he was just another slave of uefa who's out there to take care of its favourite clubs Real and Barça but seriously, it's only getting more and more ridiculous to hear all these boring and nonsense bashing about him from manu fans. it was one mistake (and a big one) but it's unfortunately all left in the past now. move on, really.

as I said before, I'm kind of liking the fact that that decision happened since it has shown about the bias some people around europe have against a "turkish" guy. turkish ref this, turkish ref that. as if it's the first ever refereeing mistake people have seen in the football history. and as if it's a difficult thing to know the name of the person you talk about. I hardly remember that people only used the term "norwegian ref" everywhere to mention tom henning ovrebo after that chelsea game.

edit: (the last part wasn't for you, beach.)
 
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About the last paragraph of your post. You got to agree that the last years Turkish football didn't exactly do itself favours with all the talk about match fixing, teams excluded, etc...

No doubt you will prove me wrong, but wasn't there something wrong with Fenerbahce ?

And you only have to read some posts of our Turkish friends here, they are rife with allegations about conspiracies, biased refs,...
What they do is making seem those stereotypes (and maybe wrong stereotypes) correct.
 
tbh, even though I'm turkish, I'm probably the last person to defend all that dipshit called turkish football. I won't prove you wrong about it at all.

but isn't it a flawed view of how those turkish refs (cüneyt çakır and fırat aydınus) are doing at europe? after having watched some of the games they officiated, one could tell that they're good or they're bad. isn't this the proper way of it? just because they're out of turkey which is a country I'd admit that has always had corrupt football managements and fa's, doesn't automatically make them bad referees (at least those two guys). although it's pretty natural for a foreign to have a bias against turkish footballers, referees, managers from what they've heard about them in media, I find this an irrelevant excuse tbh. being a turk myself, I regularly know about how they perform in international tournaments and I could easily tell that both have done very good jobs so far (tbh, at the beginning it all was very surprising to me as well). but only in a week, cüneyt çakır just made a mistake against man utd and bam! "look, he gave 7 red cards before (not that they knew it before the game ended) so he's biased against british, he's turkish anyway so he's such a little piece of shit too", I'm against reactions like that. they probably never heard of him before, he makes a mistake in their game and they suddenly act like they are the people with the most knowledge about him and every other turkish referee. very ignorant yet so arrogant. the manner that the british media (and some of man utd fans) took on this issue has been very disturbing. it was like they all have been waiting someone pull the trigger to lash out at him just for the sake of humiliating a turk. (p.s. don't ask me why because I've no clue about it, too.)
 
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I can see your point there Kanouté.
This man has the right to make errors, just like we all have.
And to be honest, it wasn't even that blatant an error. we have the benefit of 36 replays from 33 different angles. That ref had to make a decision in a split second.
Unfortunately that is the way things are going.
I heard Gudjohnsson on Belgian television about the curious incident in the Midsjaelland-Donetsk match (the Brazilian forward who scored a goal when Donetsk was supposed to give the ball back after an injury). Gudjohnson was adamant that this would never happened witt a big team like Barcelona and Chelsea (the two he mentioned, also both big teams he played for).

The thing is that Man Utd's mamanger constantly tries to influence referees, maybe that that works the other way round with some refs too...maybe mister çakir was determined not to let himself influenced by Ferguson and was that the reason he made that mistake.
 
Kanouté said:
I know I'm like repeating myself but this was the guy's first serious game-deciding mistake on international level I've ever seen. I don't understand why he would be biased against British teams either. can you tell me that which one/ones of his recent red cards against players from british teams was wrong? I'd probably say none. yes, he's a referee who usually lets his cards do the talking but that's never a problem as long as he's right to give them. now the thing I wonder is, have you ever heard about this guy before that game? or about the high-profile games he officiated recently? and let alone his card record against british teams, did you ever know this guy's name before the game? I wouldn't be that bothered with it if people said he was just another slave of uefa who's out there to take care of its favourite clubs Real and Barça but seriously, it's only getting more and more ridiculous to hear all these boring and nonsense bashing about him from manu fans. it was one mistake (and a big one) but it's unfortunately all left in the past now. move on, really.
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I don't disagree and have moved on, was more making the point about managers knowing a ref before a game and ensuring the players do too. I merely meant to point out an example of a 'fussy' ref who gives a lot of cards - which having looked at his numbers is the case. Not specifically Tuesday's mistake. Sorry, not meaning to bring that up again, as you said it's done and dusted. And still not as bad a decision as the Scholes/Porto one from 2004, if you want me to be really bitter ;)

It just blows my mind that FIFA wouldn't want mistakes like the Swansea one eliminated from the game. It's so easy. Just pause for 20 seconds, watch a replay and we're done.
 
Lami said:
Don't you think this makes you a troll?

I find it disturbing you get amusement from pissing people off.

If you want to stay on these boards you'll need to change that mentality.
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No, a troll is something entirely different and I didn't say I get amusement from pissing people off. I find arguing opposing views highly entertaining though.

Kanouté said:
I know I'm like repeating myself but this was the guy's first serious game-deciding mistake on international level I've ever seen.
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It wasn't a game-deciding mistake by the ref, but by Nani. He put himself in the awkward position of being subject of an "orange card" and was given the harsh treatment.
 
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So one of my personal biggest annoyances of refs is the utter bullsh*t that is 'added time'. Arsenal/Bayern match a great example.

Arsenal scored in about the 87th minute. Neuer then cleverly grabbed and held onto the ball. All in all wasted about 1 minute. Then a free kick to Van Buyten, who took almost 45 seconds from the moment of the foul. Than a throw in of 30 seconds ball out of play. So in just the last 4 minutes of the match, the ball was in play for about 1 minute. How much added time does the ref add? 3 minutes. For the whole second half.

It's just a joke at this point. It's always 3 or 4 minutes, regardless of what went on. They've even given up the old rule of 30 seconds for a sub, as far as I can tell.

All it does is make the game annoying and encourage cheating.

Ref uses his right watch as a stop watch, entire problem solved. Oh hi Mr. Robben. Another terrible ankle/head/brain/heart injury? Yep go ahead, roll around. Take a breather. Have some water. It won't affect the time left.

But instead, we get situations like today, where Bayern very 'cleverly' ensured virtually no football was played in the last 10 minutes.

Similarly, Stoke waste time from the beginning of every match. A half involving Stoke City is typically 3 minutes shorter than the average. Mental that football can be so backwards.
 
Yep, my thoughts exactly...
And if you compare both you can say this challenge by Martinez was the more dangerous one. This is a yellow and Nani's is clearly a red, well done refs! :)
 
spektarm said:
Yep, my thoughts exactly...
And if you compare both you can say this challenge by Martinez was the more dangerous one. This is a yellow and Nani's is clearly a red, well done refs! :)
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But now we all know the name of the Turkish ref, so he's done well for himself!
 
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