bebo
Looking for a Manager
I`ve learned so much from my mentor Benny, the slapping on the head and the cheap cheeky rub on a bird`s bum. This made 4th grade adventuress til I got battered, by the girls brothers. 
The referee thread: discuss referees and their decisions
- Thread starter gerd
- Start date
I`ve learned so much from my mentor Benny, the slapping on the head and the cheap cheeky rub on a bird`s bum. This made 4th grade adventuress til I got battered, by the girls brothers. 
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Yeah the 3-0 scoreline is very harsh on Galarasary. Quite a few referee decisions went Real's way otherwise Gala would still have hope. Unfortunately now that tie is over and there's no point watching the 2nd leg.
03Gs1905
The Lions Of Bhosprous
2 penalty missed from ref. He's not ready for this match much of our players too.... Hopes countinue for next year...
At least I didn't post it
For the record, this shouldn't have been a red card any more than Nani's shouldn't have. These things happen in football, and we don't need hyperactive refs ruining matches. Hard for a United fan to see that in such a comparable match and not feel a bit bitter towards the decision against Nani though.
Sabatasso
Banned
This is actually spot on according to the "expert" that was talking on Norwegian TV about the situation and I agree. Unless the collision is excessive theses situations should never award penalties.
Two things on this:
1. Why not? A midfielder is not allowed to run into another midfielder after they've passed and just take them out
2. What is excessive? Is making him flip not at least a little over the top
- Thread starter
- #187
gerd
Retired Footballer
That Norwegian ref didn't have his best day. My daughter and i were watching the match and neither of us understood why the free kick wich resulted in the third goal was not given for Galatasaray. Galatasaray could have got 2 penalties (in the first half in a split second two times with Khedira and then when the ball got stuck between Khedira and Essien - many refs would have given that as a penalty, but i'm not conclusive - the second half was worse, a clear penalty resulted in a yellow card for Gala's best player who can't play the home match).
And what was he about with all these yeloow cards in a very fair match ????
Real Madrid was the better team, but the Turkish side wasn't helped by the ref, he killed the second leg...
And what was he about with all these yeloow cards in a very fair match ????
Real Madrid was the better team, but the Turkish side wasn't helped by the ref, he killed the second leg...
cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
It's a shame they can't (or won't) take back yellow cards, because Barak Yilmaz shouldnt have got the yellow and should be able the second leg.
- Thread starter
- #189
gerd
Retired Footballer
To be honest it WAS a dive AND a penalty.
THis has been said about Bale's diving: refs should give both the foul and the yellow for the dive
THis has been said about Bale's diving: refs should give both the foul and the yellow for the dive
bebo
Looking for a Manager
I thought Giroud was a clear penalty *not given
I thought Alex Ox was not a penalty *given (outside the box)
- Thread starter
- #192
gerd
Retired Footballer
We certainly don't need thechology. Football will become unwatchable with technology if the managers and players don't change.
If that changes technology might be a blessing, UEFA or FIFA should try it out for one season and then learn from the accidents that certainly will happen.
If that changes technology might be a blessing, UEFA or FIFA should try it out for one season and then learn from the accidents that certainly will happen.
Now that we have the ability to instantly stream replays from multiple angles to a touch screen that the 4th official could keep in his pocket, I think we're ready.
Take Ibra's goal on Tuesday. At most 10 seconds and the correct decision is made. Barca's players complained for longer than that.
Or more difficult decisions like the Yilmaz booking. I tend to agree it's a foul and he exaggerates the contact. But how can the ref possibly tell from his angle? Well, if he had a little screen it would be easy. Blow the whistle, talk into the mic and ask the 4th official. No different from consulting a linesman, except the 4th official can see a replay.
It would only be used for 'critical' decisions, and at the ref's discretion.
While my dad didn't referee at a time when games were on high quality screens in the stadium, he speaks to people that do now, and one of the worst things for a ref is seeing that you just f*cked up, a minute later on the big screen. Then you're more likely to 'compensate' for your mistake. Generally refs try not to watch, but it's kind of human nature.
It'll never happen with the current batch at FIFA, but at some point Blatter has to die, even if he probably does feed on poor children's hearts to prolong his evil existence.
Take Ibra's goal on Tuesday. At most 10 seconds and the correct decision is made. Barca's players complained for longer than that.
Or more difficult decisions like the Yilmaz booking. I tend to agree it's a foul and he exaggerates the contact. But how can the ref possibly tell from his angle? Well, if he had a little screen it would be easy. Blow the whistle, talk into the mic and ask the 4th official. No different from consulting a linesman, except the 4th official can see a replay.
It would only be used for 'critical' decisions, and at the ref's discretion.
While my dad didn't referee at a time when games were on high quality screens in the stadium, he speaks to people that do now, and one of the worst things for a ref is seeing that you just f*cked up, a minute later on the big screen. Then you're more likely to 'compensate' for your mistake. Generally refs try not to watch, but it's kind of human nature.
It'll never happen with the current batch at FIFA, but at some point Blatter has to die, even if he probably does feed on poor children's hearts to prolong his evil existence.
- Thread starter
- #194
gerd
Retired Footballer
Managers will constantly put officials under pressure to use the technology.
And will it help ?
I doubt it. Look at the discussions here. Let's take something that was quite obvious for both of us beach: Nani's sending off. How many people here still didn't agree with us after 35 replays from 22 angles ? Lots.
Same for both your examples from this week's CL matches: there are quite a few people who say Ibra wasn't offside and Ramos never committed a penalty foul on Yilmaz. Technology might well not help at all. In the end the decision/interpretation is human and thus debatable...
And will it help ?
I doubt it. Look at the discussions here. Let's take something that was quite obvious for both of us beach: Nani's sending off. How many people here still didn't agree with us after 35 replays from 22 angles ? Lots.
Same for both your examples from this week's CL matches: there are quite a few people who say Ibra wasn't offside and Ramos never committed a penalty foul on Yilmaz. Technology might well not help at all. In the end the decision/interpretation is human and thus debatable...
That viewpoint totally misses the point - it's still down to one man making a decision. The only difference is that using technology he could actually see the incident from multiple angles, and be best informed to make his decision.
BobbyBox
WING NUT!
- 10 October 2003
- Team
- Arsenal
- Thread starter
- #197
gerd
Retired Footballer
What i'm trying to say is that replays might be inconclusive...
we7god
Kreisklassen-Profi
Most of the people discussing here have never visited a referee seminar or something similar. If you are aware of the rules and you watch the replays within few seconds you can clearly see, that Ibra goal was definetly offside and Ramos comitted a foul on Burak Yilmaz, which should give penalty and no card at all for Burak.
The scene with Nani is not that simple. He watched for the ball and did not see his opponent. So he didn't comit a foul on purpose. On the other side this action was dangerous play and the chances of hurting the opponent serious were there. Clearly a foul, even if not on purpose, and definetly a card, but if it had to be red, you can really discuss. Even referees will have different oppinions in such scenes. I watched the match in german television (sky) and the "experts" there had also different oppinions...
In the end the foul by Ribery against Vidal, which was even not given a card was much more worse...
- Thread starter
- #199
gerd
Retired Footballer
I agree with you about the 3 examples. I have exactly the same opinion as you (although i would have given Nani a yellow card).
It might well be that technology will end the impact referee mistakes have on results (i personally doubt it, but let's say yes for the sake of argument). On the other hand i'm quitesure that technology will destroy the flow of the game. Matches will be stopped over and over because of discussions and the use of thechnology.
Maybe FIFA should think about te context of this all.
An example: use technology (during the match) only for what happens in the box and only the ref himself (or the fourth official) can decide when techology will be used.
It would be imperative that the decision to use technology can never be taken by one of the competing teams (players and even less managers).
It might well be that technology will end the impact referee mistakes have on results (i personally doubt it, but let's say yes for the sake of argument). On the other hand i'm quitesure that technology will destroy the flow of the game. Matches will be stopped over and over because of discussions and the use of thechnology.
Maybe FIFA should think about te context of this all.
An example: use technology (during the match) only for what happens in the box and only the ref himself (or the fourth official) can decide when techology will be used.
It would be imperative that the decision to use technology can never be taken by one of the competing teams (players and even less managers).
DasKapital
Winger
- 27 November 2012
I think the fact that referees can make mistakes from time to time adds something to the game.
It's frustrating when they go against your team, but how many times has a refereeing decision worked in the team you supports favour? Like getting a goal that stands when it was offside, or getting a penalty that was a soft decision. It adds drama and a nice bit of unpredictability to the game, which it needs.
It's frustrating when they go against your team, but how many times has a refereeing decision worked in the team you supports favour? Like getting a goal that stands when it was offside, or getting a penalty that was a soft decision. It adds drama and a nice bit of unpredictability to the game, which it needs.
we7god
Kreisklassen-Profi
I am not sure if new technology will destroy the game, but in the end I think most of possible technologies will not be implemented because it will be difficult to set up a frame when which technology is allowed and how it should be used. I can not imagine taht Fifa will be able to set up rules for those technologies everyone will be pleased with. And Blatter does not seems to be a friend of such technologies...
So this discussion will last several more years or maybe decades...
So this discussion will last several more years or maybe decades...
elensar77
11 Abdul Kader Keita
Gala want to disapproval for the Burak yellow card. We call on Uefa for that. We will see what gonna be happen
What if it was the ref who could decide wether to ask for a TV review or not? I mean, just like in the NBA, if the refs have doubts about something, they go to the line, watch the play and then can decide.
I think this will help a lot referees in very hard decisions. For instance, Ibra goal wouldn't have been allowed, a penalty given to Galatasaray and divers punished easily.
Yes, I know a referee could decide wrong anyway, or he could refuse to resort to a review when he could, etc... But at least it would bring easy solutions to a lot of instances with not much impact on the flow of the game.
Besides, it would have another secondary effect which is very important. People in the stadium, who can't see the TV replay, would admit easier the decision of the ref, who HAS watched the replay. So the ref decisions would gain a bit more respect in the eyes of the fans.
Another important thing would be to have referees KNOW all of the rules of the game. As I put in the Champions League thread, in the PSG-Barça match there was a collision of 2 barcelona players in the area who layed on the floor injured. Stark committed 2 big mistakes:
1) Not stopping the play when a collision may have injured 2 players. It lead to nearly a goal for PSG.
2) Not allowing the 2 barcelona players to enter the pitch before the corner was taken. There's an exception in the rules that says that if 2 players of the same team collide dangerously and are attended, the referee can wait for them and let them enter the pitch before the game is resumed. That's just to prevent the defending team to play with 2 less players.
Stark definitely didn't know this, so a big mistake for him there. The corner was taken with only 9 barcelona players (2 defenders out of the pitch) and lead to the free kick that ended in an off-side goal by Ibra.
Great refeering...
PS: I think the result was fair, it's not a fan-rant, just stating that I was shocked with this chain of mistakes as I studied for ref some years ago and since then I always read the rules and rules innovations each year. Definitely, Stark doesn't.
I think this will help a lot referees in very hard decisions. For instance, Ibra goal wouldn't have been allowed, a penalty given to Galatasaray and divers punished easily.
Yes, I know a referee could decide wrong anyway, or he could refuse to resort to a review when he could, etc... But at least it would bring easy solutions to a lot of instances with not much impact on the flow of the game.
Besides, it would have another secondary effect which is very important. People in the stadium, who can't see the TV replay, would admit easier the decision of the ref, who HAS watched the replay. So the ref decisions would gain a bit more respect in the eyes of the fans.
Another important thing would be to have referees KNOW all of the rules of the game. As I put in the Champions League thread, in the PSG-Barça match there was a collision of 2 barcelona players in the area who layed on the floor injured. Stark committed 2 big mistakes:
1) Not stopping the play when a collision may have injured 2 players. It lead to nearly a goal for PSG.
2) Not allowing the 2 barcelona players to enter the pitch before the corner was taken. There's an exception in the rules that says that if 2 players of the same team collide dangerously and are attended, the referee can wait for them and let them enter the pitch before the game is resumed. That's just to prevent the defending team to play with 2 less players.
Stark definitely didn't know this, so a big mistake for him there. The corner was taken with only 9 barcelona players (2 defenders out of the pitch) and lead to the free kick that ended in an off-side goal by Ibra.
Great refeering...
PS: I think the result was fair, it's not a fan-rant, just stating that I was shocked with this chain of mistakes as I studied for ref some years ago and since then I always read the rules and rules innovations each year. Definitely, Stark doesn't.
- Thread starter
- #204
gerd
Retired Footballer
Very good post Alex.
It shouldn't be overturned. UEFA's policy is only in the case of mistaken identity.
United appealed after Darren Fletcher was wrongly sent off ahead of the CL final against Barca and they were told that it's only mistaken identity
Can you reference the exception to the normal rules (which I posted yesterday) about two players from the same team? I've literally never heard or seen that exception before in all my years of football.
I still maintain he shouldn't have done action 1. Collisions happen every 2 minutes in football, and with certain teams players go to and stay on the ground every time there's a collision. The rule was changed to avoid this.
bebo
Looking for a Manager
I think the best ref is the one that goes missing in a game. The talking points would be the performance of players , not ref. I think there will be good to have technology just not too much of it. Errors are part of our lives and we manage to still on.
Then you don't know the rules properly
. When 2 players of the same team collide and go down to the floor with potential injury (it doesn't necessarily needs to be a head collision) the referee has to stop the play. And he should let them continue the match if they can without making them wait in the sideline.Look for it in the latest rules advices from Fifa and UEFA. Even journalists in the Spanish TV were talking about it during the match and in fact Barcelona sent a report of it to UEFA, as many other clubs do when a referee makes technical mistakes during a match, such as whistling offside from a throw-in.
Then you don't know the rules properly
Look for it in the latest rules advices from Fifa and UEFA. Even journalists in the Spanish TV were talking about it during the match and in fact Barcelona sent a report of it to UEFA, as many other clubs do when a referee makes technical mistakes during a match, such as whistling offside from a throw-in.
But you can't provide the rules either? Easy argument to make.
The only exception I can see to the rules is the line:
"players from the same team have collided and need immediate attention"
This is worded the same was as the head injury exception, so for me is covering the fact that the main rule is focussed on collisions of players on opposite teams. And in the case of the two Barca players (who let us remember were desperate to come back and play no more than a minute later) they clearly didn't need 'immediate attention'. Imagine if this rule were enforced all the time, if one team was breaking 3 on 2, two defenders could run into each other, 'injure' themselves and the ref would be forced to stop play.
I keep up with the rules and would love to see the one that says players can be allowed immediately back on if they're both on the same team. That seems massively counter-intuitive to me. The only exception I know is that you have to have a keeper on the field. So if the goalkeeper is injured, you can't start play til he or a new goalkeeper is ready to go.
Just because Spanish newspapers say something, doesn't mean it is right. And I'm not trying to be a d*ck, I just genuinely can't believe there's a rule that says if two players from one team are injured, you let them right back on, but for all other situations you don't.
Aha, and after much digging I've found it. In the 2012 'advice to referees' released by FIFA, there is indeed a clause:
Advice, 5.9: INJURIES
Players who are injured are required to leave the field under either of two conditions: The referee has stopped play due solely to the occurrence of a serious injury or the referee signals approval for anyone (team official, medical personnel, etc.) to enter the field to attend to an injury (regardless of whether that person enters to assist or not and regardless of why play was stopped). Goalkeepers are exempt from this requirement, along with any field player who may also have been injured as a result of a collision with the goalkeeper, as well as teammates who collide. The failure of a player to leave the field when required to do so may be considered cautionable behavior.
Fair enough, didn't know about that.
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I see you finally believe me then. Just a little appreciation: the two barça players were anxious to return to the pitch because they were focused and are tough guys. But one minute later Mascherano couldnt go on, he had a ligament broken and his season is over. So the collision was indeed a dangerous one.