The Retro-PES Corner

[H_G]

I use the csv files on Notebook LM, although it still work to do cuz it seems sometimes it doesn't read the well.

For those who wanna try this. Don't do it
Firstly convert the ods/xlsx/csv to Markdown format. AI love to read this format.
But don't use it in Notebook LM.
The current version doesn't manage to read Markdown with a lot of rows and columns, it will trim the Markdown files at best to the Position, and won't see the rest.
Instead, create a Gem in Gemini. Load the Notebook lm (with pdf guides inside it) and import the markdown tables separately. Actually, Gemini can read an entire Markdown table, thing Notebook LM cannot do.

 

[TheTonyTornado]

Which PES from the PS3/Xbox 360 era is the most challenging for you guys?

 

[tutu7]

I wouldnt say that people arent interested, i think most people arent just in the region to participate

I absolutely love the fact that people like you are organising such wholesome tournaments in a world where the online aspect is the most dominant, would love to see some recorded footage of your tournaments in the future

A similar question, but about online: why are there so few people playing pes4, 5 (and 6, to a lesser extent) online, despite the presence of functioning servers? Since meeting irl is quite difficult, this could be another way of playing against other humans. The cpu becomes boring very quickly...

 

[TheTonyTornado]

A similar question, but about online: why are there so few people playing pes4, 5 (and 6, to a lesser extent) online, despite the presence of functioning servers? Since meeting irl is quite difficult, this could be another way of playing against other humans. The cpu becomes boring very quickly...

I honestly think this forum is full of people who love offline play because of ML etc

Im on that boat too, i just like creating careers that i can "immerse" myself in, to add to that, online play was something that i was doing a lot when i was younger (i know being 26 isnt that old lol) and for some time now i dont enjoy the "stress" of competetivness if that makes sense.

Thankfully i can rotate through different games so that CPU always feels fresh (especially the 2008 PES).

 

[Flipper the Priest]

A similar question, but about online: why are there so few people playing pes4, 5 (and 6, to a lesser extent) online, despite the presence of functioning servers? Since meeting irl is quite difficult, this could be another way of playing against other humans. The cpu becomes boring very quickly...

Personally I've never seen any appeal in playing against strangers. Each to their own, though!

 

[tutu7]

I honestly think this forum is full of people who love offline play because of ML etc

Im on that boat too, i just like creating careers that i can "immerse" myself in, to add to that, online play was something that i was doing a lot when i was younger (i know being 26 isnt that old lol) and for some time now i dont enjoy the "stress" of competetivness if that makes sense.

Thankfully i can rotate through different games so that CPU always feels fresh (especially the 2008 PES).

I get your point about the “stress of competitiveness”. However, online doesn’t have to be like the toxic ranked ladders of modern games. For example, I’m currently simulating Euro 2000 and Euro 2004 with some friends of mine online, because we can’t meet irl. We don’t care about rankings, ladders or being “pro” at all. We just play the matches, record the games, and relive the magic of those legendary tournaments from a completely different perspective than the usual player vs CPU experience

 

[Chris Davies]

A similar question, but about online: why are there so few people playing pes4, 5 (and 6, to a lesser extent) online, despite the presence of functioning servers? Since meeting irl is quite difficult, this could be another way of playing against other humans. The cpu becomes boring very quickly...

After reading a few posts about this over the last few weeks, I decided to give pes6.es a go - it showed me just how far online gaming has come. The thought is exciting, the reality is I'd forgotten all the "rough edges" of playing online back in the day.

Most users were a very long way from me (mostly Argentina and Brazil), and while the first half would work perfectly, the second half would have good old 90s/00s mega-lag (I'm assuming hosting duties swap at half time?). My players would barely respond to my input, and the play kept fast-forwarding as it caught up to the server, with the ball moving off in different directions before the player had even touched it.

That's not to mention (to echo @Flipper the Priest's misgivings about strangers) coming up against some very "odd" formations. First guy spent the entire pre-match time inputting wild formations, playing with 5 up-front and no midfield until he scored and then switching to every player behind the ball...

It made me remember why I loved the days when FIFA had an "Online Leagues" system, where you could make a league out of people who weren't "cheesers" who just wanted to exploit the game.

 

[tutu7]

After reading a few posts about this over the last few weeks, I decided to give pes6.es a go - it showed me just how far online gaming has come. The thought is exciting, the reality is I'd forgotten all the "rough edges" of playing online back in the day.

Most users were a very long way from me (mostly Argentina and Brazil), and while the first half would work perfectly, the second half would have good old 90s/00s mega-lag (I'm assuming hosting duties swap at half time?). My players would barely respond to my input, and the play kept fast-forwarding as it caught up to the server, with the ball moving off in different directions before the player had even touched it.

That's not to mention (to echo @Flipper the Priest's misgivings about strangers) coming up against some very "odd" formations. First guy spent the entire pre-match time inputting wild formations, playing with 5 up-front and no midfield until he scored and then switching to every player behind the ball...

It made me remember why I loved the days when FIFA had an "Online Leagues" system, where you could make a league out of people who weren't "cheesers" who just wanted to exploit the game.

Hi Chris! Well, pes6.es isn't ideal for europeans (I'm Italian, btw): there are just too few people from europe, so the experience is poor in terms of lag and input delay.
I'll give you my suggestion, but feel free to decline it lol: try pes5 online on pes5 indie. Our community is small and I haven't found toxic players, in fact, people are very nice here. Pes5 is also less arcade than pes6, so a small lag is less penalizing. Anyway, the trick is to play only with someone who lives in your same continent. I can assure you that the experience is so much smoother than what you found in pes6.
My advice for you is to give it a chance. There's no harm in trying, after all😅
Here is our small discord group for european players: https://discord.gg/e88nZcQC4

 

[Madmac79]

Which PES from the PS3/Xbox 360 era is the most challenging for you guys?

I'd say Fifa 14 and all the "final evolution" chapters later (they are legacy on paper, but they included features of the new gen like the body feint of 16 and the set pieces of 17, as well as some new animations, so I think just calling them legacy, at least until 17, that is the last one in which they added new stuff, is a bit reductive... sorry for the rambling ). I've been playing 19 on and off in the last weeks and I find it quite challenging (even AI seems a bit sharper than the original Fifa 14, although it might be placebo since even that one was quite good).

 

[TheTonyTornado]

I'd say Fifa 14 and all the "final evolution" chapters later (they are legacy on paper, but they included features of the new gen like the body feint of 16 and the set pieces of 17, as well as some new animations, so I think just calling them legacy, at least until 17, that is the last one in which they added new stuff, is a bit reductive... sorry for the rambling ). I've been playing 19 on and off in the last weeks and I find it quite challenging (even AI seems a bit sharper than the original Fifa 14, although it might be placebo since even that one was quite good).

Yes, I completely agree!

I bought FIFA 14 to play on the PS5, because I remember it being a pretty decent game back then (though I do recall getting annoyed quite often playing it as a 14-year-old, lol).

And I have to admit, it’s a really solid football game, especially with the slow gameplay speed.
I’ve really enjoyed myself over the last few weeks, even though the game is really demanding.

The AI is solid in defence and feels compact, yet scores loads of varied goals (not quite like in PES 2008, but still good enough)... I’m currently mid-table managing Arsenal on legendary difficulty.

One area where the FIFA series has always had the edge over PES is the wealth of small details in career mode, from random injuries to players’ tantrums; even the news section is good enough that it’s worth reading from time to time if you want to fully immerse yourself in the game.

It’s a really solid football game, below is proof of my struggles managing Arsenal + a rather nice Wenger-style goal scored yesterday.




The goal itself starts at the 30-second mark, but the whole clip shows just how solid FIFA 14’s gameplay can be. We pinned Southampton back like this for the first 15 minutes, although it was difficult to break into the penalty area due to their well-organised defence. The switch between slow tempo and a quick build up felt really realistic. In the second half, Southampton took the initiative and even had more possession. Their squad has a few technical players in midfield, which made sense as they were able to play a lot of quick passes; I’d previously played against Norwich and their passing accuracy was dreadful.


I think FIFA 14 is truly one of the top football games; I wouldn’t say it’s number one, but perhaps in the top five. I get the impression that things started to go downhill from FIFA 16, particularly the difficulty level.

 

[Pagi84]

Yes, I completely agree!

I bought FIFA 14 to play on the PS5, because I remember it being a pretty decent game back then (though I do recall getting annoyed quite often playing it as a 14-year-old, lol).

And I have to admit, it’s a really solid football game, especially with the slow gameplay speed.
I’ve really enjoyed myself over the last few weeks, even though the game is really demanding.

The AI is solid in defence and feels compact, yet scores loads of varied goals (not quite like in PES 2008, but still good enough)... I’m currently mid-table managing Arsenal on legendary difficulty.

One area where the FIFA series has always had the edge over PES is the wealth of small details in career mode, from random injuries to players’ tantrums; even the news section is good enough that it’s worth reading from time to time if you want to fully immerse yourself in the game’s world.
It’s a really solid football game; below is proof of my struggles managing Arsenal + a rather nice Wenger-style goal scored yesterday.


View attachment 415904

The goal itself starts at the 30-second mark, but the whole clip shows just how solid FIFA 14’s gameplay can be. We pinned Southampton back like this for the first 15 minutes, although it was difficult to break into the penalty area due to their well-organised defence. The switch between slow tempo and a quick build up felt really realistic. In the second half, Southampton took the initiative and even had more possession. Their squad has a few technical players in midfield, which made sense as they were able to play a lot of quick passes; I’d previously played against Norwich and their passing accuracy was dreadful.


I think FIFA 14 is truly one of the top football games; I wouldn’t say it’s number one, but perhaps in the top five. I get the impression that things started to go downhill from FIFA 16, particularly the difficulty level.

Yeah your 14 gameplay looks similar to mine, you on version 1.0 and have you edited the sliders?
I've been hyping up 14 on the retro FIFA thread for weeks! I think it's really great.

 

[TheTonyTornado]

Yeah your 14 gameplay looks similar to mine, you on version 1.0 and have you edited the sliders?
I've been hyping up 14 on the retro FIFA thread for weeks! I think it's really great.

Ooh i will check out that thread to team up with you haha

PS says its the 1.06 version, tweaked the sliders just a tiny bit

The passing/first touch error is up to 53

Passing speed 48.

Keepers are at about 53.

Marking 52

Run frequency and fullback posistioning 52

 

[Madmac79]

Yes, I completely agree!

I bought FIFA 14 to play on the PS5, because I remember it being a pretty decent game back then (though I do recall getting annoyed quite often playing it as a 14-year-old, lol).

And I have to admit, it’s a really solid football game, especially with the slow gameplay speed.
I’ve really enjoyed myself over the last few weeks, even though the game is really demanding.

The AI is solid in defence and feels compact, yet scores loads of varied goals (not quite like in PES 2008, but still good enough)... I’m currently mid-table managing Arsenal on legendary difficulty.

One area where the FIFA series has always had the edge over PES is the wealth of small details in career mode, from random injuries to players’ tantrums; even the news section is good enough that it’s worth reading from time to time if you want to fully immerse yourself in the game.

It’s a really solid football game, below is proof of my struggles managing Arsenal + a rather nice Wenger-style goal scored yesterday.


View attachment 415904

The goal itself starts at the 30-second mark, but the whole clip shows just how solid FIFA 14’s gameplay can be. We pinned Southampton back like this for the first 15 minutes, although it was difficult to break into the penalty area due to their well-organised defence. The switch between slow tempo and a quick build up felt really realistic. In the second half, Southampton took the initiative and even had more possession. Their squad has a few technical players in midfield, which made sense as they were able to play a lot of quick passes; I’d previously played against Norwich and their passing accuracy was dreadful.


I think FIFA 14 is truly one of the top football games; I wouldn’t say it’s number one, but perhaps in the top five. I get the impression that things started to go downhill from FIFA 16, particularly the difficulty level.

Which PES from the PS3/Xbox 360 era is the most challenging for you guys?

Oh man, I'm totally COOKED 🤦‍♂️! I've read Ps3/360 era and my brain went automatically to Fifa despite me being aware this was the Retro-Pes corner . Thanks for putting up with me graciously.

Yes, Fifa 14 is truly a gem in my opinion (every version of it, although pc one is lacking in graphics), even tho I quite enjoy all Fifas up until 19.

Anyway, to get back in topic and to your real request, I coincidentally also played some Pes 12 lately and I think it would get my vote for most challenging one of PS3/360 era. Compared with Pes 13 it seems to have more variety in attacking and teams that keep their shape way better (I also find CPU defenders to react in a stronger fashion). AI attacking is also merciless (to the point of unfairness, at least in Superstar). There are things I'm not a fan of (the whole passing, especially through balls, seems to have a "magnetic" quality that make it feel way less interesting compared with classic Ps2 physics that was there more or less until 2010/11), but in terms of difficulty to me it's number one.

 

[Sany023]

After reading a few posts about this over the last few weeks, I decided to give pes6.es a go - it showed me just how far online gaming has come. The thought is exciting, the reality is I'd forgotten all the "rough edges" of playing online back in the day.

Most users were a very long way from me (mostly Argentina and Brazil), and while the first half would work perfectly, the second half would have good old 90s/00s mega-lag (I'm assuming hosting duties swap at half time?). My players would barely respond to my input, and the play kept fast-forwarding as it caught up to the server, with the ball moving off in different directions before the player had even touched it.

That's not to mention (to echo @Flipper the Priest's misgivings about strangers) coming up against some very "odd" formations. First guy spent the entire pre-match time inputting wild formations, playing with 5 up-front and no midfield until he scored and then switching to every player behind the ball...

It made me remember why I loved the days when FIFA had an "Online Leagues" system, where you could make a league out of people who weren't "cheesers" who just wanted to exploit the game.

Chris, I am remember very well my similar emotions, when few years ago was played online in PES 6 and PES 5 very often.
1-st time of match with good connection and good emotions and last one with lags and mostly unplayable.
But in most cases was tryed to play honestly, do not "doing weird tricks for win in online", as someone do.
It's my "insert name of modern mega popular online game" (as a examples like current PUBG, Fortnite, Overwatch).

By the way it is good memories ...

 

[TheTonyTornado]

Oh man, I'm totally COOKED 🤦‍♂️! I've read Ps3/360 era and my brain went automatically to Fifa despite me being aware this was the Retro-Pes corner . Thanks for putting up with me graciously.

Yes, Fifa 14 is truly a gem in my opinion (every version of it, although pc one is lacking in graphics), even tho I quite enjoy all Fifas up until 19.

Anyway, to get back in topic and to your real request, I coincidentally also played some Pes 12 lately and I think it would get my vote for most challenging one of PS3/360 era. Compared with Pes 13 it seems to have more variety in attacking and teams that keep their shape way better (I also find CPU defenders to react in a stronger fashion). AI attacking is also merciless (to the point of unfairness, at least in Superstar). There are things I'm not a fan of (the whole passing, especially through balls, seems to have a "magnetic" quality that make it feel way less interesting compared with classic Ps2 physics that was there more or less until 2010/11), but in terms of difficulty to me it's number one.

Yeah no worries, i think PS3/Xbox 360 era was lost by PES so it makes sense to mostly think about FIFA haha

I will check out PES 2012 even though i feel that FIFA 14 will be my main go to when i want to play something more modern.
I still adore J.LeagueWE2008CC and WE8LE but sometimes i have the itch for a game that has more modern feel.

To add to the FIFA talk (last time as that is the PES corner ), i remember that commentary was solid, but i have to say, the ammount of little insight that Martin Tyler and Alan Smith add during the match is top notch. Talking about recent performance, table position, player form, injuries and top transfers ups the experience one level higher. If only FIFA 14 had the Premier League overlay like it did since FIFA 15 it would be perfect.

Its abosuletely comical how FIFA went backwards with their offline experience, we all know why, but still, its shocking.

At the end of the way i will be coming back to PS2 PES games more often than playing modern footy games because there is something in that games that i absolutely love, even though i didnt play PES back then.

If someone has that itch for something a little bit more fresh, i honestly think FIFA 14 (on slow gameplay speed!) is a good shout.

 

[Dooky]

 

[MKC]

Which PES from the PS3/Xbox 360 era is the most challenging for you guys?

PES 2012 on Superstar is a real pain, especially due to the defending, with how tackling is quite difficult, and the shooting, because it's often mediocre and defences sit back for the most part making it difficult to get opportunities... still my favorite PES from the era though, even if I mostly play it on Professional, FUMA, 10min or 15min, it plays such good football for me in those settings, I should play it again sometime.

 

[tutu7]

Chris, I am remember very well my similar emotions, when few years ago was played online in PES 6 and PES 5 very often.
1-st time of match with good connection and good emotions and last one with lags and mostly unplayable.
But in most cases was tryed to play honestly, do not "doing weird tricks for win in online", as someone do.
It's my "insert name of modern mega popular online game" (as a examples like current PUBG, Fortnite, Overwatch).

By the way it is good memories ...

A beautiful Milan - Liverpool on PES5 Online, recorded yesterday. PES 5 is good also when played offline, of course, but against another real player this game becomes a masterpiece

 

[NeoRetro]

Yeah to me too, it's the best Fifa with Tactical defending (well, the worst to me is the 12 as that feature wasn't totally on point but rectified in the Fifa 13 version)

Now i won't lie, i was bored about the Fifa's feeling that time especially on PS3/X360/PC as they gives almost the same exact feeling while playing to me, and i've still liked it, but it gets me bored to get 3 years, even more with or without the tactical defending big changes regarding the way to play... Defensively ONLY.
I retried it later on PC, and i also get fastly bored. But the PS4 Ignite version, with a bigger pitch is probably my ex-aequo favourite Fifa OAT with the 11 on PS3 version / even if the 11 on PC is pretty good, it's a non-neglectible version of the 10 without the "lob bug" which was never corrected during the whole year, so it's also a good version, more open and with more freedom. Fifa 10 could be good on old PS3-X360 but the "big bug" that remind me 16 bits football games where there's something to do for scoring easily remind me some nightmare tennis score Online, as people used the same thing all the year.
But for the 10 playing with friends in tournament was the only choice.

So for the gameplay as @Sami 1999 explained the differences, i get why some people who probably never experience online as that trick was used more than enough and it was heavily annoying : a battle of lob (You can do it against CPU) that EA never get to correct in any official patch.

But you can't get something as balanced and close to real football as FIFA 14 PS4 which fitted totally with the engine : that's why i prefers that one above the 16, also players and ball felt less lightweight/floaty and animations serving or not to the gameplay were more natural. PC-PS3 is an awesome version of it, but as a FIFA 14 pc players (as they updated the database with moddingway, i loved to do some cup, league, rarely career as i'm not a fan of Fifa career "lifeless ambianced" a bit like some managerial game, in comparision to Master League of some PES version.

 

[NeoRetro]

PES 2012 on Superstar is a real pain, especially due to the defending, with how tackling is quite difficult, and the shooting, because it's often mediocre and defences sit back for the most part making it difficult to get opportunities... still my favorite PES from the era though, even if I mostly play it on Professional, FUMA, 10min or 15min, it plays such good football for me in those settings, I should play it again sometime.

I noticed something particularly weird in PES 2013 regarding defending, i got hard with the Far camera, so i switched to Long Cam or TV cam and i got far easier to defend on both games.
Now i got absolutely no idea if patches modified that part or if they didn't applied the very last Konami patch.... But i got issue on defending on my PC version i didn't got on PS3.

I found another trick but i didn't really checked if it's a placebo or not but i put "tackling" on "semi-auto" like on older PES, same as you can notice that in PS2 PES version : even teamtates clears the ball sometimes automatically when it's really dangerous, depending the difficulty choosen.

That a bit how i got reconciliated just in terms of gameplay with Pes 2013, even if it will never be the one i will play the most and one of my favourite, it's still a solid and far more entertaining game than everything we got since a dark 2021 september/october where "football games" if i call call it like that, have completely changed their policy regarding reality and the famous "it's just a game" argument. While "sim" was a sales argument, it's not anymore and i don't have a clue why it isn't. Are we so different than the actual gen/youth people?

At least i got a part of answer in my mind is that : we BOTH get Arcade (16bits 2d or even 3d) football funny games and this generation didn't got it, they don't even got a Fever Pitch Soccer or Tecmo World cup in their collection. That's perhaps one answer of what they(youth) say regarding realism "it's a game it should stay a game" as when we searched realism we didn't got all our youthness (except Iss Deluxe and SSidekicks series which was half arcade, half-sim) they're searching some kind of Arcade fun they didn't got. We got ton of them with Super Soccer Champ and co.

Before launching stones and tomatoes to the youth gen, we need to understand them. They didn't even get some Action-football like Pes ps2 was, balanced and fun at the same time.

Chris, I am remember very well my similar emotions, when few years ago was played online in PES 6 and PES 5 very often.
1-st time of match with good connection and good emotions and last one with lags and mostly unplayable.
But in most cases was tryed to play honestly, do not "doing weird tricks for win in online", as someone do.
It's my "insert name of modern mega popular online game" (as a examples like current PUBG, Fortnite, Overwatch).

By the way it is good memories ...

I remind long time ago have played on WE2002 online where one-two were forbiden in attack. Some prefers WE2002 or ISS Pro 2 as for example WE3FE or even ISS Pro Evo 1 but at least they didn't got that exploiting flaw.
I hate when you have to contain yourself on a game because that famous game got a big "bug" of flaw, like i mentionned with Fifa 10. I'd like to use the whole panel regarding what the game have to offer and i got hard to contain myself to use those trick. It's not to me to contain myself but the game itself to force me to do it.

Edit: sorry for the Double post, i post pretty rarely those time so i read you a lot : i should answer more often to avoid the light novel syndrome at each post 🤣

 

[H_G]

PES 2012 on Superstar is a real pain, especially due to the defending, with how tackling is quite difficult, and the shooting, because it's often mediocre and defences sit back for the most part making it difficult to get opportunities... still my favorite PES from the era though, even if I mostly play it on Professional, FUMA, 10min or 15min, it plays such good football for me in those settings, I should play it again sometime.

Although it's a very scripted game, I like it compared to 2013

 

[NeoRetro]

Same, i didn't really liked that version as it feel like they're going too far with the poor engine and it feel often pretty unnatural and "cheap", plus that the players may feels weightless as the ball. Pes 2012 is not as, to my own vision of the PS2,5 engine they created, very conform to what that engine can do and it doesn't try to go further: which is making the game flow more natural, the global engine is just a bit overclocked, but not a bit too much like Pes 2013, i repeat, in my own vision and most of all game's feeling.

PES 2012 pushed it a bit further too but not too much, it's not in very- like Pes 2013 even if i got reconcialiated with the gameplay not so long time ago by giving him a third chance as the game offer a lot of gameplay possibilities which is non neglectable.

 

[sk_rea2f]

Use DkZ Studio or GGS to insert the files on to the original Japanese ISO. (& the PCSX2 memory card for the hidden ML teams.)
https://mega.nz/file/lA1DiLIL#1d8I_OkDESbAcXmt_oGVBm3PGeNoHWXc1OrxbRH5-QI

No option file for this one though since I'm having hardware issues again.

 

[FC Bayern]

Although it's a very scripted game, I like it compared to 2013

PES 2013 was a revolution to me. I've a lot of time for PES 2013. I remember once coming back to 2012, and it felt very 'loose'. The ball felt free. A good game, no doubt, but I feel I'd take 2013 over 2012 easily. Mind you, it has been a long while since I played both