US Elections... Obama v McCain

[PetrovLFC]

Obama 'seems' to good to be true. I don't trust him, McCain is just an idiot, and I think the choice of Palin as VP is ridiculously patronising.

Not that voting for either will make any difference to the rest of the world. Foreign Policy effects the rest of the world, and foreign policy is never decided by Presidents.

 

[Metallica]

I just queued up for 5 hours and voted Obama

 

[EatonTJ]

Obama 'seems' to good to be true. I don't trust him, McCain is just an idiot, and I think the choice of Palin as VP is ridiculously patronising.

Not that voting for either will make any difference to the rest of the world. Foreign Policy effects the rest of the world, and foreign policy is never decided by Presidents.

I'm not sure how choosing Palin was patronizing... perhaps pandering, but I'm not sure who was being patronized. But regardless, foreign policy is one of the few things that the President actually does, so I'm not sure what you are going on about. The President signs treaties, hosts dignitaries, acts as the head of state, etc. While it's true that only Congress can declare war, as we've seen throughout history, that really hasn't stopped any President from flexing some military muscle as the President is the highest ranking military commander (i.e. "Commander-in-chief").

 

[Revan]

Barack Obama the republican... wait.


he has to be a republican, he got bribed too many times.
That's a republican trait.

 

[Nick Cave]

Looks Like Obama by a sizable margin...

 

[EatonTJ]

Looks Like Obama by a sizable margin...

I too think Obama will win, but with 0% reporting, it's a bit early to call.

Post election polling has been wrong the last two elections, I wouldn't trust anything but actual vote counts.

 

[Nick Cave]

I too think Obama will win, but with 0% reporting, it's a bit early to call.

Post election polling has been wrong the last two elections, I wouldn't trust anything but actual vote counts.

I was calling our vote EatonTJ I think it will be close too, and given the time zone thing I guess we'll get no results early...

 

[Soul]

When time will the votes be finally decided?

 

[Nick Cave]

When time will the votes be finally decided?

I think they will be voting for another 3 or so hours at least so not for some time...

 

[gomito#10]

Well for me, it's all about the economy so I voted for McCain, who has the superior tax policy.

and that worked so well with bush.... and Regan.. who is probably your hero so i probably shouldn't bring him up , so all you care about is how much money the government takes away from you? You seemend more enlighten then that eatonj, so mcains health plan ideas arent' new, and they aren't horrible? Hey we should tax 401k's as well as health benefits... wait a second....

 

[gomito#10]

Although I disagree with Palin's religious beliefs (as I am an agnostic, she is a devout Christian) I don't think she is "crazy" as she has been depicted by the media. Based on how she governed the state of Alaska, she was very moderate (obviously, still right of center) and seemed to do more good than bad. (She actually fought against corruption in her own party, and got some corrupt republican politicians to resign and be punished, so she at least has some ethics).

So while I don't agree with some of her social policies, the McCain/Palin ticket still offers a far better economic platform in comparison to Obama/Biden.

Also, I think Biden may be the worst of all of them... he just hasn't achieved any sort of celebrity and has avoided media coverage. But wow, the things he says are so very stupid.

depicted by the media? seriously what the hell does that mean? how can someone be depicted if she cant even answer questions or she isn't available for interviews, or when she is, she comes out as a complete and utter moron.
Biden runs his mouth, but at least he knows what he is talking about.

 

[Soul]

I think they will be voting for another 3 or so hours at least so not for some time...

Oh, alright.

 

[EatonTJ]

and that worked so well with bush.... and Regan.. who is probably your hero so i probably shouldn't bring him up , so all you care about is how much money the government takes away from you? You seemend more enlighten then that eatonj, so mcains health plan ideas arent' new, and they aren't horrible? Hey we should tax 401k's as well as health benefits... wait a second....

I'm not really sure what you are driving at there... I've never said I supported Bush or Reagan (I was 1 year old when Reagan became president) and to be clear, the tax plan I am for is the FairTax. You can learn a bit about it at www.FairTax.org .

I think that whatever major country adopts the FairTax (or something similar) first will immediately become the clear number one country for economic development. Since I live in the USA, I'd like it to be here. But if some other county did it first, I would heavily consider moving there (as would every major corporation).

Neither McCain nor Obama is for the tax plan I want. However, as we are now in a national and global recession, I think it would be highly irresponsible and disastrous to raise taxes... something Obama plans to do. Raising taxes in a recession is a terrible, horrible idea and will make everyone's lives worse.

So while I'm not enamored with the McCain tax plan, it is far superior to Obama's as it won't cause further disaster.

As far as health plan ideas, McCain's idea was pretty good. I have no idea what you do or don't know about how health insurance works, but to say it simply, in the USA it is much cheaper to purchase health insurance through your employer than it is to do it for yourself. Basically, if want the exact same coverage from the exact same insurance company, it is far cheaper for your employer to purchase it for you (and then take it out of your pay) than it is for you to purchase it yourself. The reason behind this discrepancy (again, simply put) is because your employer gets a tax break (which they pass on to the employee) when the buy "your" insurance BUT if you buy it yourself, you don't get the tax break.

McCain simply wanted to make it so that anyone purchasing health insurance gets the tax break regardless of their employment. I'm not saying that is a total solution, but it certainly makes sense. Plus, it makes you wonder why the government has set it up so that it's cheaper for you to rely on your employer to pick your insurance for you? Why not instead let each individual chose their own health plan? McCain wants to create more competition for your health dollar, which would lower prices and increase benefits for everyone.

As for taxing 401k plans, (or basically, take away the current tax breaks for investing in 401ks) that would be a HUGE disaster. I'm not sure from your post whether you are for that or against it. But if you have any thoughts to offer on it I'd be glad to hear them.

You asked if my only concern was how much money the government takes away from me... and of course that is not my only concern. However, I have a wife and son and I work 60-70 hours a week to provide for them. So of course I'm concerned with how much money I'm being taxed. It would be irresponsible of me not to care. But it's also very important as to what the government is going to do with the money.

G.W. Bush allowed money to be spent like it was going out of style, which drove me crazy. I was hoping that our next president would drastically cut spending... Especially in a recession. If people are making less money, the government should tax and spend less money too, not tax and spend more. Obama has proposed over a trillion dollars ( $1,000,000,000,000 !!!) in new spending. I completely disagree.

Did you know that right now the USA spends more money per student than any other country in the world? Yet in international tests, our students can't finish any better than average in math and reading comprehension versus the rest of the world? ...And private school educated kids destroy public school kids in testing. So while McCain wants to allow you to take your tax money to the school of your choice, Obama wants to simply take MORE of your money and put it into the same failing system. Bad idea.

So it's not just how much of the money that I earn is taxed, it's why the government wants it.

Anyway, McCain isn't perfect by any means. And I understand why the international community wants Obama to be president because he will be a total pushover. But Obama's bad economic policies (if they pass) will hurt everybody's bank accounts... the global economy.

 

[EatonTJ]

depicted by the media? seriously what the hell does that mean? how can someone be depicted if she cant even answer questions or she isn't available for interviews, or when she is, she comes out as a complete and utter moron.
Biden runs his mouth, but at least he knows what he is talking about.

I agree that the McCain campaign completely mismanaged the Sarah Palin introduction to the country. Because of their decision to have her avoid questions until the Vice-President debates, she came off looking like she was hiding something. And it forced media to speculate about who she was since there were all these questions and no answers.

So the media just started making things up. For example, it was claimed for a few days that her child with downs syndrome was actually her daughter's child... and that somehow Palin was trying to hide this. Well this turned out to be completely untrue (i.e. the media depicted Palin unfairly) but Palin wasn't around to answer any questions correctly. Complete mistake from the McCain camp for sure, but it doesn't make Palin an "utter moron".

Also, I disagree that Biden knows what he's talking about. Obama has had to correct Biden several times over just the last few weeks over several "gaffes" (to put it politely) that made Biden look as stupid as Bush.

 

[gomito#10]

I'm not really sure what you are driving at there... I've never said I supported Bush or Reagan (I was 1 year old when Reagan became president) and to be clear, the tax plan I am for is the FairTax. You can learn a bit about it at www.FairTax.org .

I think that whatever major country adopts the FairTax (or something similar) first will immediately become the clear number one country for economic development. Since I live in the USA, I'd like it to be here. But if some other county did it first, I would heavily consider moving there (as would every major corporation).

Neither McCain nor Obama is for the tax plan I want. However, as we are now in a national and global recession, I think it would be highly irresponsible and disastrous to raise taxes... something Obama plans to do. Raising taxes in a recession is a terrible, horrible idea and will make everyone's lives worse.

So while I'm not enamored with the McCain tax plan, it is far superior to Obama's as it won't cause further disaster.

As far as health plan ideas, McCain's idea was pretty good. I have no idea what you do or don't know about how health insurance works, but to say it simply, in the USA it is much cheaper to purchase health insurance through your employer than it is to do it for yourself. Basically, if want the exact same coverage from the exact same insurance company, it is far cheaper for your employer to purchase it for you (and then take it out of your pay) than it is for you to purchase it yourself. The reason behind this discrepancy (again, simply put) is because your employer gets a tax break (which they pass on to the employee) when the buy "your" insurance BUT if you buy it yourself, you don't get the tax break.

McCain simply wanted to make it so that anyone purchasing health insurance gets the tax break regardless of their employment. I'm not saying that is a total solution, but it certainly makes sense. Plus, it makes you wonder why the government has set it up so that it's cheaper for you to rely on your employer to pick your insurance for you? Why not instead let each individual chose their own health plan? McCain wants to create more competition for your health dollar, which would lower prices and increase benefits for everyone.

As for taxing 401k plans, (or basically, take away the current tax breaks for investing in 401ks) that would be a HUGE disaster. I'm not sure from your post whether you are for that or against it. But if you have any thoughts to offer on it I'd be glad to hear them.

You asked if my only concern was how much money the government takes away from me... and of course that is not my only concern. However, I have a wife and son and I work 60-70 hours a week to provide for them. So of course I'm concerned with how much money I'm being taxed. It would be irresponsible of me not to care. But it's also very important as to what the government is going to do with the money.

G.W. Bush allowed money to be spent like it was going out of style, which drove me crazy. I was hoping that our next president would drastically cut spending... Especially in a recession. If people are making less money, the government should tax and spend less money too, not tax and spend more. Obama has proposed over a trillion dollars ( $1,000,000,000,000 !!!) in new spending. I completely disagree.

Did you know that right now the USA spends more money per student than any other country in the world? Yet in international tests, our students can't finish any better than average in math and reading comprehension versus the rest of the world? ...And private school educated kids destroy public school kids in testing. So while McCain wants to allow you to take your tax money to the school of your choice, Obama wants to simply take MORE of your money and put it into the same failing system. Bad idea.

So it's not just how much of the money that I earn is taxed, it's why the government wants it.

Anyway, McCain isn't perfect by any means. And I understand why the international community wants Obama to be president because he will be a total pushover. But Obama's bad economic policies (if they pass) will hurt everybody's bank accounts... the global economy.

obama is cutting taxes for %90 of americans.. not sure how that equates to raising taxes... JOhn Mcain wont raise taxes but will surely continue the wars abroad costing us billions in taxes a month. So not sure how staying in these wars helps us economically, especially when you dont have the money to pay for these wars. I cant even comment on your educational point of views, to me there wrong and inaccurate. Comparing US public schools to western european nations and asian nations is impossible and not relevant. As for the pushover comment, again, not sure how that happens or what your implying. He is going to assemble a very good set of advisers, specifically as we all know Colin Powel, who does not seem to me to be a pushover. Or how about warren buffet for your economic advisor. At least he wont be bought and sold buy israel, like mcain is. Not sure why you think mcain is any different then bush, he voted his way most of the time and alot of that was the big spending you are so against, and he also again pandered to the religious right with his selection of palin, just like bush. My dad hasnt voted democrat in 40 years, he said he is voting for obama because he sees him as the type of person who will surround himself with smart people to help him thru this crisis(warren buffet, powell, etc). John Mcain chose Palin, I think that spoke for itself.


but back to the pushover comment, seriously, what two legs will mcain have to stand on? Russia just made us there bitch with the Georgia incident, bush couldnt do anything but wave a finger. OUR CREDIBILITY IN THE WORLD IS GONE. Mcain wont be able to push when push comes to shove anymore then obama will, thanks to old georgie boy...

 

[gomito#10]

I agree that the McCain campaign completely mismanaged the Sarah Palin introduction to the country. Because of their decision to have her avoid questions until the Vice-President debates, she came off looking like she was hiding something. And it forced media to speculate about who she was since there were all these questions and no answers.

So the media just started making things up. For example, it was claimed for a few days that her child with downs syndrome was actually her daughter's child... and that somehow Palin was trying to hide this. Well this turned out to be completely untrue (i.e. the media depicted Palin unfairly) but Palin wasn't around to answer any questions correctly. Complete mistake from the McCain camp for sure, but it doesn't make Palin an "utter moron".

Also, I disagree that Biden knows what he's talking about. Obama has had to correct Biden several times over just the last few weeks over several "gaffes" (to put it politely) that made Biden look as stupid as Bush.

Your seriously calling the national enquirer, the media? Forget the media, her debate made her look like a moron, not to mention her katie couric interview

 

[EatonTJ]

I'm no longer going to respond gomito#10 as you clearly don't have a full grasp of what is going on. No offense intended, but it's not worth my time.

Obama can't possibly "cut taxes for 90% of Americans" (and to be clear, he has claimed to be cutting taxes for 95% of Americans) when 45% of Americans DON'T PAY INCOME TAX! So he can't possibly "cut" their taxes below 0%.

Obviously, you haven't done your research into what Obama (and I assume McCain) are actually talking about. Also, your comments as to my educational point of view being wrong and inaccurate are amusingly ironic as each of your posts have been filled with spelling, grammatical, and other communicative nonsense... suggesting you may not be the best person to listen to on the subject of reading comprehension.

I appreciate the discourse, and you are free to vote and support whomever you want... but your lack of understanding has rendered further conversation moot. Sorry.

Edit: Oh, and cutting taxes for 90-95% of Americans would mean he is raising taxes on 5-10% of Americans... which is a pretty stupid thing to do in a recession.

 

[gomito#10]

I'm no longer going to respond gomito#10 as you clearly don't have a full grasp of what is going on. No offense intended, but it's not worth my time.

Obama can't possibly "cut taxes for 90% of Americans" (and to be clear, he has claimed to be cutting taxes for 95% of Americans) when 45% of Americans DON'T PAY INCOME TAX! So he can't possibly "cut" their taxes below 0%.

Obviously, you haven't done your research into what Obama (and I assume McCain) are actually talking about. Also, your comments as to my educational point of view being wrong and inaccurate are amusingly ironic as each of your posts have been filled with spelling, grammatical, and other communicative nonsense... suggesting you may not be the best person to listen to on the subject of reading comprehension.

I appreciate the discourse, and you are free to vote and support whomever you want... but your lack of understanding has rendered further conversation moot. Sorry.

Edit: Oh, and cutting taxes for 90-95% of Americans would mean he is raising taxes on 5-10% of Americans... which is a pretty stupid thing to do in a recession.

typical, obama won so its a moot point now, i didn't realize this was a English course. If so I would have spelled checked and re-read what I wrote. Sorry I failed your test, LOL. Have fun the next 4 years.

 

[miguel.]

This.

I want to hear the man speak. Fuck sleep.

 

[SG Eintracht]

After CNN and NBC informations, Barrack Obama is the new president of the US.
It seems like he has 297 electoral votes, McCain has 139.

 

[miguel.]

McCain's eloquent speech was absolutely gracious and dignified. Respect to the old man.

The crowd shouting 'nigger' and booing was just though... Plain idiots.

 

[gomito#10]

McCain's eloquent speech was absolutely gracious and dignified. Respect to the old man.

The crowd shouting 'nigger' and booing was just though... Plain idiots.

what? dude they werent shouting 'nigger'. And if they were, you are right, idiots. BUt i didnt hear that, and yes it was a gracious speech. Mcain is a good man, in a bad spot.

 

[Dermot]

It might have been black people shouting "wigger" at McCain.

This was my 1st time voting in the United States. The country needs drastic change in a number of areas and I couldn't see McCain fulfilling those agendas for me. Obama is the right choice and I'm glad this country isn't as naive as I thought it could be. The economy is important but I think ultimately no matter who is in power the economy will rebound, as it has countless times before. This election was about something more than just that. I honestly haven't seen people as involved as people are right now and it's exciting. Obama can bring drastic change and above all awareness. Whether you are a McCain or Oboma supporter I hope we can all agree that the man is EXTREMELY well spoken and boy can he deliver a speech. The way he resonates reminds me of JFK, lets hope he doesn't end up with a bullet in his head like he did. LET THERE BE PEACE.

 

[gerd]

Eatonj, here in Europe there was something about exagerated travel and other expenses from Palin as governor of Alaska.
She claimed travel expenses while she just stayed at home for example...that was all over the media in here...
Furthermore she strikes me as extremely dumb and i don't like at all that she's backed by the National Rifle Association. I'm glad Obama has won...and i hope (but i know better) that under is presidency America will become a country for all Americans. A country without haves and have-nots (and you are clearly a "have"). A country where gettoes can disappear.
Maybe 15 year ago i saw the best documentary i ever saw "Hoop dreams". What was intended as a sports documentary about young talented basketball players turned out to be a documentary about social disasters in America's inner cities...(i think it was in Chicago, but i'm not sure). You can buy that documentary on DVD now...i think everybody interested in the US of A should see it.

 

[Placebo]

Voting a Black man and a Democrat into the Whitehouse gives me reason to think there's some hope for America after all. Personally I'm delighted he won.

 

[Nick Cave]

Our Evo Poll proved to be correct guys. A few good lively debates going on there too...

 

[gomito#10]

Eatonj, here in Europe there was something about exagerated travel and other expenses from Palin as governor of Alaska.
She claimed travel expenses while she just stayed at home for example...that was all over the media in here...
Furthermore she strikes me as extremely dumb and i don't like at all that she's backed by the National Rifle Association. I'm glad Obama has won...and i hope (but i know better) that under is presidency America will become a country for all Americans. A country without haves and have-nots (and you are clearly a "have"). A country where gettoes can disappear.
Maybe 15 year ago i saw the best documentary i ever saw "Hoop dreams". What was intended as a sports documentary about young talented basketball players turned out to be a documentary about social disasters in America's inner cities...(i think it was in Chicago, but i'm not sure). You can buy that documentary on DVD now...i think everybody interested in the US of A should see it.

great sports movie. Yes and palin had some questionable expenses as a governor who touts herself as a reformer. Gerd I question your statement about we are clearley a country of haves... We are a country of have not a lot, have everything in the world you would ever need, and a country of have everything anyone would ever want... We have a HUGE middle class, its not just rich and poor. If that's what you were trying to say. Of course we have our poor, and the ghettos of inner city America, but find me a country of our size who doesn't. Im not saying its not a problem, but its a problem not easily solved.


interestingly most voters who voted for Obama did so because of the economy

 

[gerd]

Gomito, i didn't meant to say that America is a lang without middle class (that's the image i have more and more of the UK, a country where the middle class is disapperaing slowly...).
If i gave that impression: i'm sorry...

 

[iluvnineties]

Im a big Barack Obama suporter. I'm glad he won. McCain is just another Bush who is a hardcore American and wants everything his own way. Not going to happen. I'm more glad that Palin is not in the office either. Can't stand the bitch for some reason. Her husband is a little prick too.

 

[Nick Cave]

She's going to be running for President in 2012...