Arsenal Thread

yep I have to wait 12 uk time to watch the match on Arsenal online but from the audio it sounded great!! apparently on Arsenal online everyone voted Diaby over Denilson
 
I just got back from the Emirates, such an absurd match;
Sheffield didn't have a shot on target (and had only about 3 wide ones at all),we could have had about 10, but everyone was having so much fun doing backheels and skills.

Pretty much everyone played well with no major "what are you doing?!?!" moments.

Vela was just incredible. Wait until you see his second goal. It's something I always used to do in Fifa but I've rarely seen it work in real life. And Wilshere at 16 had a bit of a scorcher (although Sheffield's goalie was pretty poor.)

The Young Gun's are looking bad-ass!

I'm not 100% but sky sports 1 at midnight I think will show the match (if not highlights.)

P.s. I think this is my first post in the Arsenal thread - Hello fellow Gooners!
 
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jamxo said:
I just got back from the Emirates, such an absurd match;
Sheffield didn't have a shot on target (and had only about 3 wide ones at all),we could have had about 10, but everyone was having so much fun doing backheels and skills.

Pretty much everyone played well with no major "what are you doing?!?!" moments.

Vela was just incredible. Wait until you see his second goal. It's something I always used to do in Fifa but I've rarely seen it work in real life. And Wilshere at 16 had a bit of a scorcher (although Sheffield's goalie was pretty poor.)

The Young Gun's are looking bad-ass!

I'm not 100% but sky sports 1 at midnight I think will show the match (if not highlights.)

P.s. I think this is my first post in the Arsenal thread - Hello fellow Gooners!
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Hello Mate :DD
 
Also this may be a little off topic but I see Pogatetz did an eduardo, i.e. tackled a Manchester United player and broke his leg. Curious to see what the reaction will be.
 
Dirty tackle... i remember he ended the career of another player before his move to Boro. His blades apparently cut open the players leg something nasty.

Feel sorry for Rodrigo after watching Eddy go through that in February.

Great display by Vela.... He looked awesome! Great future for the kid
 
just watched the whole game on Arsenal TV absolute class from the backs to Middle and cream on the top goals... Wilshire,Rasmsey,Randall,Meriada ,giggs,Bendtner ,Vela,song,djour... were so excellent !! Vela 1st and 2nd goals were so sweeeeeet! Viva Mexico arriba!
 
beboq said:
just watched the whole game on Arsenal TV absolute class from the backs to Middle and cream on the top goals... Wilshire,Rasmsey,Randall,Meriada ,giggs,Bendtner ,Vela,song,djour... were so excellent !! Vela 1st and 2nd goals were so sweeeeeet! Viva Mexico arriba!
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Giggs?

¿Es bebido usted de la presentación del fútbol, o ha estado fumando usted cheeba mi amigo? ;) :D
 
try to look at things from an objective perspective guys.
i'm a true fan of english football... actually i love almost every football school in europe.... and being a football lover, i obviously can't help loving wenger's football.

but this doesn't mean i can't notice there's something wrong with some british clubs transfer policies (arsenal, most of all).

i mean, i can't really see how any reasoneable person could possibly argue with that:

Platini said:
"When I talk about business, what I am talking about is recruiting players when they are 13 or 14. I can't stand it."
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and i would also add "stealing those young kids from the clubs who originally recruited em and raised em"

and please, don't take this as a personal attack or a rant coming from a mean man who would like to see british footie wipped off the planet, coz i'm not ;)):))
 
lo zio said:
try to look at things from an objective perspective guys.
i'm a true fan of english football... actually i love almost every football school in europe.... and being a football lover, i obviously can't help loving wenger's football.

but this doesn't mean i can't notice there's something wrong with some british clubs transfer policies (arsenal, most of all).

i mean, i can't really see how any reasoneable person could possibly argue with that:



and i would also add "stealing those young kids from the clubs who originally recruited em and raised em"

and please, don't take this as a personal attack or a rant coming from a mean man who would like to see british footie wipped off the planet, coz i'm not ;)):))
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Spot on and it's not just Arsenal who do this sort of thing.
 
lo zio said:
try to look at things from an objective perspective guys.
i'm a true fan of english football... actually i love almost every football school in europe.... and being a football lover, i obviously can't help loving wenger's football.

but this doesn't mean i can't notice there's something wrong with some british clubs transfer policies (arsenal, most of all).

i mean, i can't really see how any reasoneable person could possibly argue with that:



and i would also add "stealing those young kids from the clubs who originally recruited em and raised em"

and please, don't take this as a personal attack or a rant coming from a mean man who would like to see british footie wipped off the planet, coz i'm not ;)):))
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If it was stealing then people would get punished.

The young players make a choice - we don't just drag them away.

Fabregas was at one of the biggest clubs in the world in Barcelona - a club he supports. But he chose to come to Arsenal? we didn't take him at gunpoint did we?
 
BobbyBox said:
If it was stealing then people would get punished.

The young players make a choice - we don't just drag them away.
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the thing is those kids don't make any choice at all. their parents take those decisions for them..... and most of the times, they take theese decision not in the interest of the kid, but in their own interest (i don't know if u ever see how those kids parents act. try to go to a youth team training camp, and see with your own eyes what i'm talking about: it's pretty much disgusting).

however that's not even the main point imo. i mean it's not ethic, of course, and in some coutries it's also illegal (u're not allowed to sign a professional contract here in italy until u reach the legal age), but afterall there are so many disgusting things goingon in professional football nowadays....

my main concern is the future of the youth schools. there's an industry around theese kids. there are people who work for them. training camps, facilities, coaching staff, school tutors. italian and spanish poor clubs go through all this just to raise their own talent, so that one day, when the kid will become 18, he will be able to sign a contract. then, once he will be a professional, he will be able to decide wheter to keep playing for his club or to move somwhere else. In any case the club who spent time and money on him will get a proper reward for its accomplishment; by his performances or by his price tag.

but this doesn't happen, coz arsenal, man utd chelsea and other british club scouts keep wandering around our youth training facilities to detect the most promising kids, and then, without telling anything to the club who raised the kids, they go to their parents, offer them a huge load of money, and bring them in england.
this IS stealing. and the only reason why theese clubs can't be punished for it is this:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1412266&postcount=2314
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1408592&postcount=2312

now i honestly don't really care that much about the kids interests and their greedy parents.... most of the times, leaving their youth schools theese guys also compromise their future improvements, their professional growth, their future carreer..... but u know what, they get what they deserve.

my real concern is for atalanta, lecce, reggina, parma, napoli and their youth schools. those clubs spent time, energies and money to raise those kids, to help them becoming football players, and to get a proper reward for their job (once the kid reach the legal age).
then arsenal, newcastle, chelsea come here and get them paying to the clubs just the "standard legal fee for the player raise" wich is a ridiculoulsy low price, compared to the real value of this kids.
this is not acceptable. this is not "scouting".

and the craziest thing of them all is that u also have to listen to fabregas telling barcelona to "respect to the intimacy of a club like Arsenal that never make a lot of noise (over transfers) and who always try to do things properly" (i just read it in bebo's sig).
that's really the last straw!

this season reggina's president decided to cut the funds for reggina's youth schools coz.... "what's the point in spending time, energies and money on raising young football players, if then a british club comes and gets them almost for free once we finished our job and turned a kid into a football player? we're not rich enough to work for free.... we're not rich enough to raise our players for arsenal, newcastle or chelsea".

u can't really say this is "trying to do things properly". and u can't blame Platini for trying to fight theese dirty policies :))

once again, i don't wanna look like an anti-english idiot who just wanna have a go at arsenal. italian and spanish leagues have their own issues too.
but while italy is well aware of serie a's issues and tries to work on them, it seems to me that british media and (some) fans just keep turning their backs on their issues, pretending they don't exist.... and keep blaming everyone who remarks those issues, as they were mean anti-english people :-ll

sorry for the long post Bobby :-pp:))
 
lo zio said:
the thing is those kids don't make any choice at all. their parents take those decisions for them..... and most of the times, they take theese decision not in the interest of the kid, but in their own interest (i don't know if u ever see how those kids parents act. try to go to a youth team training camp, and see with your own eyes what i'm talking about: it's pretty much disgusting).

however that's not even the main point imo. i mean it's not ethic, of course, and in some coutries it's also illegal (u're not allowed to sign a professional contract here in italy until u reach the legal age), but afterall there are so many disgusting things goingon in professional football nowadays....

my main concern is the future of the youth schools. there's an industry around theese kids. there are people who work for them. training camps, facilities, coaching staff, school tutors. italian and spanish poor clubs go through all this just to raise their own talent, so that one day, when the kid will become 18, he will be able to sign a contract. then, once he will be a professional, he will be able to decide wheter to keep playing for his club or to move somwhere else. In any case the club who spent time and money on him will get a proper reward for its accomplishment; by his performances or by his price tag.

but this doesn't happen, coz arsenal, man utd chelsea and other british club scouts keep wandering around our youth training facilities to detect the most promising kids, and then, without telling anything to the club who raised the kids, they go to their parents, offer them a huge load of money, and bring them in england.
this IS stealing. and the only reason why theese clubs can't be punished for it is this:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1412266&postcount=2314
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1408592&postcount=2312

now i honestly don't really care that much about the kids interests and their greedy parents.... most of the times, leaving their youth schools theese guys also compromise their future improvements, their professional growth, their future carreer..... but u know what, they get what they deserve.

my real concern is for atalanta, lecce, reggina, parma, napoli and their youth schools. those clubs spent time, energies and money to raise those kids, to help them becoming football players, and to get a proper reward for their job (once the kid reach the legal age).
then arsenal, newcastle, chelsea come here and get them paying to the clubs just the "standard legal fee for the player raise" wich is a ridiculoulsy low price, compared to the real value of this kids.
this is not acceptable. this is not "scouting".

and the craziest thing of them all is that u also have to listen to fabregas telling barcelona to "respect to the intimacy of a club like Arsenal that never make a lot of noise (over transfers) and who always try to do things properly" (i just read it in bebo's sig).
that's really the last straw!

this season reggina's president decided to cut the funds for reggina's youth schools coz.... "what's the point in spending time, energies and money on raising young football players, if then a british club comes and gets them almost for free once we finished our job and turned a kid into a football player? we're not rich enough to work for free.... we're not rich enough to raise our players for arsenal, newcastle or chelsea".

u can't really say this is "trying to do things properly". and u can't blame Platini for trying to fight theese dirty policies :))

once again, i don't wanna look like an anti-english idiot who just wanna have a go at arsenal. italian and spanish leagues have their own issues too.
but while italy is well aware of serie a's issues and tries to work on them, it seems to me that british media and (some) fans just keep turning their backs on their issues, pretending they don't exist.... and keep blaming everyone who remarks those issues, as they were mean anti-english people :-ll

sorry for the long post Bobby :-pp:))
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I agree with the amount of money paid for a young player - it should be relative on their potential. That is a problem and a better compensation should be put in place.

But I don't agree with you generalising these parents as money grabbing people. There are many other reasons why the young players will leave the clubs they were at. Like there being limited chances for them to progress at their current club, being one of those many reasons.

Usually if a young player has been bought up at a club and has a special connection with them etc etc - it is hard for them to leave. So there must be other reasons other than money for these young players to leave.

Just because a young player has been raised by a club - it doesn't mean they owe them the rest of their footballing lives. They have the right to do whatever they want, to stay or to go. Just as the club have the right to tell a young player they have no future at their club - after they have been with them from a very young age.

The fact is a small percentage of young players make it to the first team of the team they were brought up with. So if they feel that the chances of them making it in that team are minimal - then why not move on?

So just as uncertain as it is for a club not knowing if a young player is going to sign a professional contract with them. Its just as uncertain that young players will get this contract aswell.

The only thing I can agree on you with is that the compensation deals should be for much more.

And on the note of Platini - He has a big chip on his shoulder. He should not attack individual managers. Arsene was talking about something completely different and Platini attacked him. It was totally wrong and a person in his position should really conduct himself better.

The way Clubs like Barcelona and Real Madrid conduct themselves is alot worse aswell - because they actually tell blatant lies and talk a load of bullshit to unsettle players etc - this is wrong. But they are never called up on and it works for them so well - so they will continue doing it.

Also all the 'bigger' clubs all over the world - take players from the 'lesser' clubs. It is not just the English League.
 
Pasqualin D’Amico is having a meeting w/ Wilshere`s parents so Inter can take Arsenal`s very own.(joking) I really doubt it ,but they can get star treatment in Italy for the weekend. For those who are not familiar Pasqualin D’Amico Agency is the biggest in Italy (assuming). I find it an honor and interesting that the young gunner could be under this Agency
 
But I don't agree with you generalising these parents as money grabbing people. There are many other reasons why the young players will leave the clubs they were at. Like there being limited chances for them to progress at their current club, being one of those many reasons.

Usually if a young player has been bought up at a club and has a special connection with them etc etc - it is hard for them to leave. So there must be other reasons other than money for these young players to leave.
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:SS
oh come on Bobby, i know u don't really believe what u said.... u can't really believe this!
other reasons to leave the club which turned em into football players? wich reasons???

trying a new experience???
oh sure i'm pretty sure that's a good reason. i'm sure this was rossi's real aim, when ran away from parma's clubhouse (in the middle of the night) to reach man utd.
"i'm so sick of Parma, i'm so tired of living in the city who has been constantly mentioned among the 10 best cities in the world for quality of life index..... i'm sick of the beautiness of this city, of the wheather, the food, the lifestyle, my friends.... i would just like to leave all of this and try something new.... Manchester is the place i wanna be! :-!

or maybe they do it coz they have limited chances for them to progress at their current club???

well if that's the case, then i guess somebody should tell theese kids they won't ever find anything better than parma, atalanta, reggina, roma, lazio or lecce, to improve their skills.
the fifa award for the best youth school (or is it a uefa award? i can't remember) has been won almost always by italian clubs, since the award was created (1985, if i remember well). spanish clubs won it a a few times (sevilla won in 3 times, barca 1 time), portuguese clubs won it 3 times (and it was always sporting lisbona who won it), french clubs won it about 5 times (a couple of times it was lyon, a couple of times tolouse won it).
italian clubs won it 12 times (4 times parma, 4 times atalanta, once reggina, once roma, once lazio, and one other time a club i don't remember at the moment).
how many times arsenal or manchester utd won the award? never. is there a single british youth school which ever won the award? no.
u probably don't know parma's football school or atalanta's youth team, but mate, comparing these youth schools to arsenal's or manchester's youth schools is like comparing usain bolt to pistorius. just do a research on the web about the best youth football schools in the world and u'll see what i'm talking about.
so we can definitely say they don't run away to improve their skills.

then maybe they move to arsenal, chelsea, man utd or newcastle to get more playtime?
:SS wait a minute... u said..
The fact is a small percentage of young players make it to the first team of the team they were brought up with. So if they feel that the chances of them making it in that team are minimal - then why not move on?
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.... but do u really believe that moving to arsenal, chelsea or man utd they will get more chances to make it to the first team??? :BLINK:
let me think, to get some playtime in parma lupoli and rossi had to prove they could do better than the likes of budan, corradi, lucarelli..... so lupoli decided to move to arsenal, where he had to fight with the likes of henry and van persie, to get some first team playtime..... while rossi moved to man utd, where he had to compete with the likes of van nistelrooy and rooney.......
yeah i got to say it's pretty much easier to get some first team playtime in arsenal or man utd.... :LOL:

Seriously Bobby, there's just no defending them. the only reason why they move is because they're afraid they won't make it.... they're afraid they won't ever sign a professional contract (as u pointed out). so they keep learning from our schools, they keep taking advantage of parma's or atalanta's training facilities, of the football lessons, the tactical lessons, the gym, they take advantage of the school tutors (wich parma provides them for free).
and then, as soon as they become good enough, wenger's scouts come to to his parents and tell them "u can't be sure your son will ever sign a professional contract... but if u come with us, we will give u a contract right now." then the parents might say (but i don't think they really say this) "but this is unfair. what about his current club? i mean it's also illegal to do that. being an under 18 player my son must sign his first contract for the team who raised him, according to fifa rules"
and the scout might reply: "don't worry madame, we have our ways to get around this rule... we'll take care of everything. we'll give u a fake job, so your son will be allowed to change his club... and it's all legal!"
oh jesus this is so disgusting.

So just as uncertain as it is for a club not knowing if a young player is going to sign a professional contract with them. Its just as uncertain that young players will get this contract aswell......
...... Just because a young player has been raised by a club - it doesn't mean they owe them the rest of their footballing lives. They have the right to do whatever they want, to stay or to go. Just as the club have the right to tell a young player they have no future at their club - after they have been with them from a very young age.
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oh come on mate, this is wrong in so many ways.
sure both the club and the player don't know what will happen in the future.
the player doesn't know if he will ever get a contract, aswell as the club doesn't know if the player will ever become good enough to deserve a contract.
but while the club is giving a lot to the player (football teachers, personal trainers, gyms, pools, training facilities, school tutors, scooters etc..... the only thing the player does is taking. taking and taking and taking and taking, without giving anything in change.

and this is ok, because the only thing the club wants in change is the chance to sign the kid, once he will reach the legal age (if he'll prove he's worthy. if he turns out to be not good enough, he can leave and this means that this guy scrouged everything the club gave to him..... for free, without giving anything in change).
and FIFA guarrantees the club, by establishing that every kid MUST sign his first contract with the club which raised him.... but then british clubs use that dirty expedient (the fake job for the parents) to nullify the FIFA rule.

so to put it simply those clubs don't owe those kids for the rest of their footballing lives (as u said).... but they have the right to sign those guys for first (if they want to).
if u take tennis lesson's for an entire course, and then, once the course ends u just run away without paying.... then u're stealing.
those guys don't pay for their footballing education (even tough the clubs spend millions for the facilities the kids use for free) because their payment is supposed to be the first professional contract of the guy.

but then wenger's r ferguson's or abramovich's jackals\profiteers come and steal the fruits of italian clubs work.
and when platini pillory wenger and co. for this disgusting policies u even blame Platini for having a chip on his shoulder?????
u can bet your ass Platini is mad at arsenal or at chelsea or manchester or newcastle!!! and u have no idea how mad are reggina, parma, atalanta, presidents!!!
have u considered how they must feel??
mau utd stole rossi (who learned to play football in parma for 5 years) giving parma a ridiculous "donation" of 200.000 pounds. then after (just) 2 years man utd sold him for 11 millions euros!!!!! How would u feel if u were a parma supporter?

u say that the only thing u agree on is that the compensation is way to low.
but the reason why wenger and company keep doing theese thing is just coz they get those guys cheap.
palermo has very promising defender, Alberto Cossentino. today he's 20. when he was 17 newcastle use to send spies to palermo's training camp to make some reports about this kid. once newcastle realised the kid was worthy they went to his parents and had a "chat" with em.
luckily, Alberto's parents were good people, they said their son owe something to the club, for everything the club did for him. so they refused the offer and told newcastle agents to comeback as soon as Alberto will be a professional. they said "once Alberto will have a contract with Palermo, then u can come back here and negotiate with Palermo to sign my son. then we would be very happy to accept your offer"

u know what? as soon as alberto reached 18 years old, Newcastle showed no interest anymore for the kid (dirty bastards!)

i'm sorry i wrote another long post, but i wanted to be as clear as i can, in order to give u a good "picture" of the situation.
coz when u say that real madrid's policies are worse than arsenal, u're showing me u still miss some pieces of the puzzle.

real madrid transfer policies are to blame, no doubt about that. but there's no comparing it with what wenger does.
the only thing real madrid does is putting pressure on the other clubs (by using their media). but they don't steal other club's players. they pay those players with real money.
and most important the other clubs, no matter how much pressure real madrid puts on them, always have a choice.
madrid did everything to get ronaldo this summer. but sir alex just said "no way", and ronaldo had no other choice than staying at manchester. Because he has a contract to respect.

wenger instead looks for young kids, who are still too young to sign a contract for the italian law, and steals them from their own clubs.... and those clubs have nothing to do, coz they're not protected by a contract. FIFA should protect them with first contract rule, but wenger moves around that rule (if only someone could actually prove those jobs the parents suddenly get aren't real! :(().

as i said earlier, guys, i love arsenal, exactly as i love liverpool and chelsea and man utd. i love wenger's coaching style, i like his football and i also find him quite a classy person.....
but it's impossible to deny that what some british club (arsenal too) have being doing in the last 8 years is pretty much disgusting. and just the british club did it (coz it''s impossible go give a contract to an under 18 in italy and spain).
that's why Platini is so mad. and he's damn right. and he'll keep putting pressure on british clubs until they'll stop doing this shit (at least that's my hope). :))

edit:
holy shit! i can't believe i spent 15 minutes to write all this stuff! :BLINK:
sorry for the long post guys, but don't jump over it and read it. it's important that u realise how things go on, as the british media won't ever tell u this stuff (they'd rather keep blaming Platini for being such an arrogant, anti-english cunt).
 
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It should be a lot stricter. Players shouldn't be allowed to be signed from academies until a certain age. Most of these kids have no proper contract so they can be just signed for peanuts, leaving the original club, often 'lesser' with nothing but to lose a potential star. The big clubs often offer false hope or things the original club cant, so there really is nothing the smaller clubs can do to protect themselves.... the big clubs then eventually sell them for money or use them at their advantage, gaining either way. This process has become the norm now and most of the top European clubs do it.... imo its just as bad as Man City trying to buy super stars with ridiculous money.
 
Milanista said:
It should be a lot stricter. Players shouldn't be allowed to be signed from academies until a certain age.
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there already is such a rule. it has just one exception. if the parents move abroad for job-tied reasons, then the kid is allowed to frequent another club and, eventually,sign his first contract with em.

now FIFA can't get rid of this exception, coz it would be unfair (if the parents would actually get a real job in another country) not to allow the kid to keep playing football.

if it would have been possible to get rid of this exception, then platini would have never wasted his time blaming theese clubs. he and blatter would have just changed the rule in a way to stop british clubs dirty tricks.
but unfortunately this is not possible, for the reasons i explained.


imo its just as bad as Man City trying to buy super stars with ridiculous money.
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it's a lot worse than that. coz at least man city pays good money to the others clubs. and coz the other clubs can always say "no we don't accept your offer" ;))
 
First of all, Arsenal's football IMHO is the most attractive in the world...i think every true fan should have sympathy for Arsenal (even if he's a Spurs fan like me).

Secondly, i have a certain admiration for Arsène Wenger and it's approach that revolutionized English football. Ferguson may have won more silverware, but to me Wenger is the biggest manager of the last 20 years.

Next i think Platini should stay neutral and shouldn't have mentioned names of people or clubs in his argumentation.

But (you people knew this was coming)...


Platini is right.

I totally agree with Lo Zio.
I think he has forgotten something.
He talks about the clubs with youth academies who loose their best players. I agree,so i won't elaborate.
He talks about the greed of (most) parents and i agree.

What he has forgotten is a relative new phenomen: the satellite clubs like Antwerp for Man Utd and Beveren used to be for Arsenal...

Beveren is a bad second division club now after Guillou and Wenger left them.
Before they came Beveren could be compared with clubs like Blackburn or Everton in England. A club just below the traditional clubs who once in a while could win a championship title and even do well in Europe (semi-final after having eliminated Barcelona or was it Inter, anyway they lost to the other one...).

Then came Guillou and Wenger.
At the time (the late 90's) Beveren had a bad spell. And they proposed an offer Beveren couldn't refuse. Guillou had a youth academy in Abidjan (Ivory Coast). They proposed Beveren to be a satellite club to "groom" all those big, raw Ivorian talents. Beveren had players like Eboué; Yaya Touré, Yapi-Yapo, Boubacar Bary, Arsène Née, Romaric and i forget quite a lot of them.
At times they fielded eleven Ivorian players and they were even cited as an example of anti-racism, which was bullshit because in the next election a racist party got 33% of the votes in Beveren. During that period they played splendid football but they hardly won silverware (well one Belgian Cup, but they continued to figure in the second half of the ranking in the Jupiler League. Every time a player became really good, he was transfered (but i think only two of them played for Arsenal: Eboué and one who precede him but i don't remember who). The transfer money never was for Beveren. The players were "property" of Guillou's academy (which was owned by Wenger and Guillou).
Eventually ther was no new talent in Abidjan and Beveren got third rate players got relegated and Guillou went away, leaving the club bankrupt..

Now you can say that Wenger and Guillou gave chances to African football players and that that is a good thing...maybe...but for every Eboué there were 20 others who never maid it.

My best friend is director of a council housing company in Beveren. I visited the (private) houses where some of these players where lodged...thirty players in house designed for one family...without decent bathroom and one decent toilet...inhuman circumstances.

Is this Wenger's fault...maybe not...but as owner he is responsable.
 
Lo Zio - you obviously know alot about the situation going on.

But If it was stealing it would be illegal and then Arsenal (any other club) would be dealt with accordingly.

Obviously in the countries where they can't sign professional contracts until they are 18 - they need to re address this if they want it to stop happening. I'm sure it is a very difficult and long process for this to happen - but something needs to be done. If the different FA's in each country see it harming their footballing leagues , then they need to act to rectify it.

I am 100% sure that if Arsenal Man U etc had as good a reputation with their youth set ups as all the teams above that you mentioned and we had the same rules as their country about signing young players at 18 etc. I have no doubt in my mind that the clubs around Europe would do exactly the same thing.

Also there is nothing written down to say that a player must pay for his footballing education etc so the example of taking Tennis lessons is wrong - because it is put down that you have to pay for them first of all.

In your view all the players and their families are after just money. I think this is wrong - of course some of them will be, but I don't think it is the majority at all. Unless you come up with tape recordings of every deal done, I won't believe it :-pp

At the end of the day it is all about freedom - that is what the modern world should be about. Peoples Civil rights. If a player doesn't want to be somewhere then they shouldn't be forced to be there.

Better compensation packages should be mandatory. There should be a way of assessing and valuing a players potential. Then they pay a set amount say a million (or whatever- basically alot more than they pay at the moment) then there should be a thing stated that if the player is sold on, then the team that brought them up get a certain percentage of that sale. Like 20-30%. So then if the player is succesfull in the future then the club benefits.

Look If it was happening to Arsenal I know I would be just as pissed off, don't get me wrong. But there are so many more dodgy shitty things clubs do than this, that is highly illegal and morally wrong. A lot of these clubs are not in England aswell.

Platini needs to stop bitching and moaning and come up with a constructive resolution to this problem. Then things might get sorted out. I can definately blame him for having a chip on his shoulder - as he has a responsibility to act professionally in his role - he didn't do it the other day. If he stopped being a miserable spiteful wanker then he could put his efforts in attempting to right all the wrongs in football.

And I do honestly believe everything I said before Lo Zio - so it doesn't matter how many 'Oh come on Bobby's' or 'you can't really believe thats'. I won't accept everything you say, as alot of what you are saying is based on your assumptions that - families etc are just after the money. I don't think that is right :DD
 
Bobby, i told u almost everything i know about this matter (wich is also everything everybody outside england knows, as european media usually talk about this stuff, unlike british media).
if after everything i wrote, u still don't consider this such a disgusting and unfair policy, then there's nothing else i can say, i guess we'll just keep disagreeing on this matter :))

if u think it's fair that theese kids just say "fuck off" to the people who spent time and money to teach them football, then there's nothing else i could possibly add.

but just a few things to point out.
u said "if it was stealing it would be illegal". well it is illegal. the point is that is impossible to prove those jobs the parents suddenly get are fake.
but as a matter of fact, this is not legal!

u said Platini should act properly. that he has some responsabilities..... well he has some responsabilities towards reggina, parma, atalanta, empoli aswell.
and when parma's president says "we spent 10 millions euros in the last 5 years to raise our own football players, coz we don't have enough money to buy them. and somebody else stole the fruits of our job right before we could sign those guys. FIFA and UEFA must do something about this, coz otherwise, there will be no point in having a youth school anymore"
... then Platini Must do something in order to protect those youth schools and to defend those club's rights.
try to look at it from this point of view.

the fact that the those kids parents are looking for money or not has no importance at all, and my assuptions aren't based on that.
i think they're greedy, but even if it wouldn't be just a matter of money, this still wouldn't change the fact that what wenger does is not allowed by FIFA and that the only reason why he can get away with it, is because the dirty trick he uses can't be proved on a court.
and this is a fact. not an assumption.

however Bobby, i respect your view (even if i badly disagre with it). my only aim was to explain this situation to u and all the other people who read this thread. to give u those info that the blindfolded, biased and chauvinist british media won't ever give u.
how to judge this situation it's up to u :))

good luck for today's match guys ;)):))
 
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lo zio said:
Bobby, i told u almost everything i know about this matter (wich is also everything everybody outside england knows, as european media usually talk about this stuff, unlike british media).
if after everything i wrote, u still don't consider this such a disgusting and unfair policy, then there's nothing else i can say, i guess we'll just keep disagreeing on this matter :))

if u think it's fair that theese kids just say "fuck off" to the people who spent time and money to teach them football, then there's nothing else i could possibly add.

but just a few things to point out.
u said "if it was stealing it would be illegal". well it is illegal. the point is that is impossible to prove those jobs the parents suddenly get are fake.
but as a matter of fact, this is not legal!

u said Platini should act properly. that he has some responsabilities..... well he has some responsabilities towards reggina, parma, atalanta, empoli aswell.
and when parma's president says "we spent 10 millions euros in the last 5 years to raise our own football players, coz we don't have enough money to buy them. and somebody else stole the fruits of our job right before we could sign those guys. FIFA and UEFA must do something about this, coz otherwise, there will be no point in having a youth school anymore"
... then Platini Must do something in order to protect those youth schools and to defend those club's rights.
try to look at it from this point of view.

the fact that the those kids parents are looking for money or not has no importance at all, and my assuptions aren't based on that.
i think they're greedy, but even if it wouldn't be just a matter of money, this still wouldn't change the fact that what wenger does is not allowed by FIFA and that the only reason why he can get away with it, is because the dirty trick he uses can't be proved on a court.
and this is a fact. not an assumption.

however Bobby, i respect your view (even if i badly disagre with it). my only aim was to explain this situation to u and all the other people who read this thread. to give u those info that the blindfolded, biased and chauvinist british media won't ever give u.
how to judge this situation it's up to u :))

good luck for today's match guys ;)):))
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Just as our media is biased - in the same notion so European media can be. Anything can be reported on in a certain way to create a certain reaction. European media obviously reports it the way it does to get the reaction you have now. We all know aswell that England is not liked by many countries in Europe - so opinions in other European countries can be heavily biased aswell.

But It was reported in the English papers how Arsenal got its young players. You forget that there are alot of reporters that hate Arsenal and support other teams. So they do not miss a chance to point out our shortcomings or anything controversial we are doing. The English media is more than happy to knock a club if it sells papers.

You say Platini has responsibilities to Reggina, parma etc. I totally agree and thats what I was saying. He should do something about it. He shouldn't slag off managers or other clubs. He should get off his arse and do something constructive. He has a responsibilty to every club that is being mistreated - but he also has to be responsible with his actions. The essence of what he was saying was right. But the way he said it was completely wrong and the way he singled out Arsene disgusting!

I also don't think it is fair about the kids just leaving their clubs. Thats why I suggested other ways of compensation, which I think would go a long way to easing a hot prospect leaving a club. Or the FA acting and looking at the situation and improving it.

I too respect your opinions and views - the basis of what you are saying is true.
 
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