Arsenal Thread

Jumbo_ said:
I agree Arsenal needs to sign experienced players.

There was a French guy at Sevilla last season... a defender. He's been a pro for like 10 years, probably about 400/500 appearances, won a few league titles and cups along the way, multiple caps for his country, been to European Champs and the World Cup.. can't think of his name right now but I haven't seen him play for Sevilla this season so why didn't Wenger sign him?

And there was another guy, a French Moroccan playing for Bordeaux, pretty sure he had like 350 games for club and country and was available on a free? Pretty useful in front of goal too... his name escapes me.

But no, Wenger plays the kids... what's he thinking!!!
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:LOL:

Also alot of our 'kids' have more experience in the premierleague than most older players. They have been playing for years now.

I don't think it is lack of experience any more. I really think it is a lack of discipline in a way and also quite a few of our players thinking they are alot better than they are. I think this refers to players like Arshavin, Clichy, Denilson, Diaby, Bendtner (although I think Bendtner trys alot harder when he plays than the others).

I don't want to use the excuse of injuries again, but it is something that has effected us. On quite a few occasions recently we have been without our best defender, our best midfielder and captian and our best striker.

Look at how badly Chelsea are missing Terry and Lampard at the moment, imagine if Drogba was also out? that is no coincidence. I know it is a bit of a cop out and lots of teams have injury problems including Man United, but it is a fact of life for us at the moment and it is something that can't be ignored.

The Braga game aswell, remember we were also down to 10 men when they scored and the last goal any team could have conceeded while heavily pushing for an equaliser.

All in all I think our problems are largely psychological and I think it stems from alot of them not winning things, so they really don't know how to maintain a winning streak of any note to do anything. So we are in a bit of a catch 22 at the moment.

Althoug nobody knows what Arsene says to the players, I do think he needs to be a bit harsher with certain players. Some of the way the players act usually implies that they are getting treated too nicely and are told too many nice things and the truth isn't pointed out enough to them.

But I really do think this squad can win things, I think Arsene is still the right manager for the job. But I also do think something needs to change definately to change the way some players think.
 
I think Ferguson's abilities are overrated and the hair dryer treatment is not the way to motivate all players. Ferguson lost a couple of his best players because they were fed up with him (Stam, Van Nistelrooy amongst others).

Even i (well that's exagerated) could have won titles with the golden generation: Butt, the Neville brothers, Giggs, Beckham, Scholes...i can only remember Ajax who has produced such a golden generation (i also think Michels is overrated). To me Wenger is by far better than Ferguson. Problem is that managers are evaluated on their palmares nad Ferguson's is unprecedented...so somebody with a difficult character could conclude that i'm talking bullshit...
 
I do think you need a mixture of both. I think Ferguson has this, you know he is not going to let anything slip and will tell anyplayer what he thinks of them. But he can also be very warm and supportive as many ex players testify to.

I don't like Ferguson, but there is no denying that he is an amazing manager and you have to respect what he has done in the game, rebuilding team after team and making them extremely succesful.

I think Wenger is great and can be compared to Ferguson. But I don't think he is better than Ferguson.

Different players require different approaches and I am not that sure if Wenger uses a different approach for some players. He seems like he is praising them alot more. Therefore giving some players a heightened sense of their worth to the team and making egos a bit bigger than they should be for a team that hasn't won anything for years.

I really don't know how Arsene says things to the players. But that is just the impression I get.
 
I remember the Arsenal players saying Wenger went apeshit at them one time last season at half time and it swung it for them and they won, so he can do it.

Something about Fergie... I noticed that almost all of the people who hate him or don't like him are either journalists, radio pundits or fans. You very rarely hear players or managers say a bad word about him and most speak positively of him and that says a lot to me. His public persona is totally different to the real guy, I'm sure of that.
 
Jumbo_ said:
I remember the Arsenal players saying Wenger went apeshit at them one time last season at half time and it swung it for them and they won, so he can do it.

Something about Fergie... I noticed that almost all of the people who hate him or don't like him are either journalists, radio pundits or fans. You very rarely hear players or managers say a bad word about him and most speak positively of him and that says a lot to me. His public persona is totally different to the real guy, I'm sure of that.
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That was at anfield 1 down at the half. I won`t blame Wenger so much as I think players are responsible . How is it that Jack gets the nod. If, I was a player I would prove my worth and run after every loose ball. Jack should not be allow to get so much playing time at his age. He is good ,but we need players that won`t allow jack so many minutes ,if you know what I mean in that aspects. Theo is 1 dimensional he is good for counter , he should work on his tracking back like rooney/tevez does and needs some aggression in his game.
 
The thing is, Theo is a bit of softie really. Have you heard him talk?! He's really calm and laidback and he's a bit posher than your average footballer too. If he doesn't have that natural aggression in him, he'll never have it. He does need to be more effective though, he's got the tools.
 
Jumbo_ said:
Something about Fergie... I noticed that almost all of the people who hate him or don't like him are either journalists, radio pundits or fans. You very rarely hear players or managers say a bad word about him and most speak positively of him and that says a lot to me. His public persona is totally different to the real guy, I'm sure of that.
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It's funny you should say that, I read Robbie Savage's auto-biog a few weeks ago, here is some of the stuff he said:

"But in the 17 years since [leaving Man Utd], he said precisely three words to me. “Hello, Robert” were two of the words. “No” was the other.

I can still feel my cheeks redden at the way Ferguson spoke to me the day I asked him for David Beckham’s shirt. I’ve never been one for collecting shirts, but Becks was one of the kids I’d grown up with at United and we had always been good mates.

I was playing at Old Trafford and I asked him for his jersey. “Of course,” replied Becks. “Go and see Albert the kit man.”

I tracked down Albert and asked him for the shirt. “Go and see the gaffer.”

I walked to the home dressing room door and knocked. The great man himself was standing there. “Hello, Robert,” Ferguson said. He’d always called me that.

“Becks has said it would be OK to have his shirt, and Albert has asked me to check with you.”

“No.” Then he closed the door as my face burned up. It was as if any old Tom, Dick or Harry had asked him. I don’t think he treated me with respect that day.

It wasn’t as if I was going to stick it on eBay or anything. My plan was to get Becks to sign it and to put it on my wall with some other precious shirts."

Also I don't think Tevez is a fan of him:

"You cannot argue with Alex Ferguson. He is like the president of England. It is impossible, you always lose. But he made a mistake to leave me on the bench. That was the only final the team had lost since I had been at Manchester United."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...chester-Uniteds-Champions-League-failure.html

"But I know what I want and I know that Ferguson did not respect me as a player. Before Berbatov arrived in Manchester, Ferguson told me, 'You will still be the starting striker, so be cool'. But he lied to me! That is why I know I will not return to United.

"What I want to do next season is score against United. I promise I will not celebrate in front of the United fans but I will shout in Ferguson's face.

"You can be sure of that - and it will be one of the most beautiful things I have done in football."

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/new...gie-a-liar-and-vows-revenge-article27575.html
 
:ROLL: Oh hi Edmundo. You're never far away when there's a dig at Fergie to be had, not that you hate him of course, you're a neutral. :)

I said 'almost all' and 'very rarely', stop being such a troll. Robbie Savage is hardly a respected opinion anyway, the man's a certified idiot and like gerd said that comment shows Tevez's lack of class more than anything.
 
It's not being a troll, to merely pointing out that your assertion that players rarely say a bad word / are only positive isn't entirely true, since I was able to think of two examples off the top of my head. Ferguson is a controversial individual so there are bound to be players who don't see eye to eye with him and are critical of him.

Anyone who challenges your arguements it seems is accused of being a "troll" or biased, the only team I follow in England is in league 1, and I'm not even from England, so there isnt really any rationale for my supposed bias, it's an easy way to avoid a discussion isn't it ? To just say "Oh he's biased".
 
Maybe if Alex had treated him well that day, then Robbie would have been a completely different player?! If he got some love from Alex, he could have been a much loved player himself, but he let the resentment eat away at him and became the player we know today :LOL:
 
I seriously can't see the funny side in this 3 words. I think it's rude and shows a big lack of respect for a player who came through the youth ranks of United and was successfull.

I know that Savage was not good enough for United, but he was a good premiership player...so one can say that he made it. People are always raving about Ferguson that he "made" players. I wonder how many young players he has broken. But then again...i hate Ferguson with a passion...of course i'm not objective.
 
gerd said:
I seriously can't see the funny side in this 3 words. I think it's rude and shows a big lack of respect for a player who came through the youth ranks of United and was successfull.

I know that Savage was not good enough for United, but he was a good premiership player...so one can say that he made it. People are always raving about Ferguson that he "made" players. I wonder how many young players he has broken. But then again...i hate Ferguson with a passion...of course i'm not objective.
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Well you only have Robbie's view on it aswell. Maybe Robbie was a dick and that is why Alex spoke to him like that?

Also being a manager of any kind you are never going to be friends with the people you are managing. You need to be harsh sometimes to get things done. but I do agree you should always respect people in what you do. But some people just don't like being told what to do.
 
I understand that Savage isn't the nicest and most popular person in the UK. I knew him as a player, but nothing more than that.

But even if Ferguson had bad memories of Savage, he should not handle that way (of course always supposing that Savage told the truth). At that moment Savage was an opponent and one should always respect his opponents, no matte how succesfull one is.

That why i don't like Ferguson. The man can't win with style. That is the main reason why i got fed up wit Man Utd (i've been a United fan for more that 30 years). IMO Ferguson is manipulating and cheating in order to win. I hate that...a club like United should be above cheating and manipulating. I really got angry when i saw the diving of Ronaldo and Ferguson's reaction, the way he manipulated refs...Ronaldo's diving and Ferguson side line reactions were almost a choreography...

I will stop, because this could turn into a very looooong and boooooring rant.
 
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Martin Keown said:
After my run-in with Ruud van Nistelrooy at Old Trafford in 2003, the rivalry between Arsenal and Manchester United had never been greater. But I was still surprised by the way Ferguson behaved when I next saw him.

We were in the marble hall at Highbury before the game and he was greeting people he knew. But he did his level best to ignore me, which he hadn't done before. He usually shook my hand so I was a bit put out.

But a few years later, after I had left Arsenal, I saw him at Jim Smith's testimonial dinner in Blenheim Palace in Oxford. It was in the middle of the season and he must have been very busy but he took the time out to go along. I made a decision to go and shake hands with him. He was very warm and gracious - the perfect gentleman. I guess I wasn't a rival any more at that point but it made me realise how different he was away from work and how competitive he is with it.
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Matt Lawton (Daily Mail jouno) said:
But there is another side to Ferguson. A hugely generous side that many of the same journalists he has jousted with over the years have experienced. When colleagues he's known have been taken ill he's turned up at the hospital; even made a visit to their homes.
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Graham Poll said:
He encouraged me to continue refereeing after my World Cup cock-up and offered support. He does care about the game and not just Manchester United. The referees should listen to his ideas - they would benefit.
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Jose Mourinho (after Porto knock United out of the CL in contentious circumstances) said:
“You would have thought we had won the World Cup,” said Mourinho. “And then there was a knock on the door. It was Alex, with Gary Neville. As they came in, everybody fell silent, respectful. The party stopped. The party was over. And, as Gary Neville went round shaking hands with my players, Alex shook hands with me and said that, after the press conference, I was invited to come to his office for a drink. What a special person it was, I thought, who would do anything to win but, if he lost, still do that. At that moment I made a decision. It was that, if I ever came to England, I would follow this example.”
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Carlo Ancelotti said:
“When we met at Wembley before the game last year he said ‘welcome to English football’. We have very good relationship. Above all, when we won the Premier League he sent to me his congratulations and was a very kind man.

“I know United will do their best to win the game this time and we will do the same. In sport you have to do your best to win. But as a person and a man, Sir Alex is very kind.

“When I received the letter from him I was happy. But I hope he sends me another one next May.
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Gerard Pique said:
“When I arrived there I was 17 and it was really hard for me to leave my family here, to change club, to change all my friends,” said Pique. “For me, Sir Alex Ferguson was like a second father. He helped in all the ways, not only in football terms but also how to find a house and all my relations out of football. I think that, for me, he was a really helpful person. For me, Alex Ferguson will always be a second father. I remember when I went to his room to say that I wanted to leave because Barcelona was coming for me. It was my town, it was my club when I was young and I wanted to come back. He didn’t want me to leave and said I had a future at the club and he expected a lot from me. But I wanted to leave and he wrote me a letter saying that it was really difficult and really hard for him to let me go to Barcelona.”
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Gerard Houllier about when he had heart surgery said:
“He came to see me at the hospital,” said the Villa boss. “He has got that human warmth.

“I had a few managers who came – Sir Alex, of course, Arsene Wenger my friend, and Sven-Goran Eriksson came as well.

“The rivalry is something healthy for football but there is no rivalry between us two managers.

“There were a few opportunities where sometimes he gave me a call and some help.
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Harry Redknapp regarding the death of Pat Lampard said:
Naturally, those in the football community close to him phoned and passed on their heart felt condolences. But only Ferguson took the time and trouble to write.

"To be honest, it didn't really surprise me," insisted Redknapp.

"It was a lovely touch. The letter was very personal and a great deal of thought had gone into its contents.

"He included my wife Sandra, young Frank and the family in general.

"What's more, he meant every word of it and that means a great deal to me.

"But that's Sir Alex for you. It's probably a side you don't see too much but one everyone in football knows about.

"Publicly you see the ruthlessly driven side of a man that wants to win at all costs and that's what makes him such a successful manager, probably one of the best in the history of the game. He hates losing but as I have always said, 'Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser'.

"But in truth, you couldn't meet a more caring and compassionate man.

"He has time for everyone, let me tell you. If a lower league manager calls him, he will always call them back. If someone is in trouble he is the first on the phone trying to help and if someone passes away in the football community he will think nothing of getting in his car and driving to the other side of the country to attend the funeral."
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Belfast Telegraph (The only reason this came to light was because the widow spoke to the newspaper said:
Police widow ‘deeply touched’ by Sir Alex Ferguson’s letter of sympathy

Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson has sent a letter to Kate Carroll, whose police officer husband was murdered by terrorists.

PC Stephen Carroll was shot dead by the Continuity IRA as he answered a distress call in Craigavon on March 9 last year.

His widow Kate — a long-time supporter of the Premier League champions, like her “Steve” — said she was “deeply touched” by this most personal of gestures.

Speaking to the Belfast Telegraph from her home in Banbridge, the 59-year-old former dental nurse praised Sir Alex’s sensitivity.

“Steve adored Manchester United and it’s something that rubbed off on the rest of the family,” Mrs Carroll said.

“I couldn’t quite believe it when I opened up the letter and discovered if was from Alex Ferguson, but it means so much to me.

“Time hasn’t healed the hurt I’m feeling over Steve’s death, but little things like this make my life just that little bit more bearable.”

The grandmother-of-four added: “It’s a comfort to know that Steve will not be forgotten. Things like this help his memory to stay alive and I can continue to believe he did not die in vain.”

The letter:
“I was deeply saddened to hear of the death of Stephen and on behalf of everyone here at Manchester United, I would like to express our sincere condolences to you and your family,” read the letter. “We know that the days and months ahead will be most difficult, but trust that you will find comfort in God and with each other at this very sad time.

“The pain of losing someone dear to you is hard, but the one thing that cannot be taken away from you is the wonderful memories that you will have of your time together. I know words seem of little help, but trust that these words of comfort and the knowledge that you are in our thoughts and prayers will help sustain you in your sorrow.”
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Six soldiers badly injured in Afghanistan were United’s guests over a fabulous two days as they met legends such as Ryan Giggs and Sir Bobby Charlton and visited the Carrington training ground before being paraded on the pitch at half-time during the Old Trafford clash with Blackburn.

One of the war heroes, Corporal Paul Findlay, 24, of the 19 Light Brigade, said the highlight of United’s generosity was a dinner at which Sir Alex, one of his footballing heroes, paid tribute to the brave soldiers.

He said: “They were two of the best days of my life. Sir Alex and Manchester United really put themselves out to make sure we enjoyed ourselves.

“It was an unforgettable experience. We were taken to the Carrington training ground and met all the United players.

“That evening we were invited to a dinner hosted by the Manchester United Supporters Association.

“Sir Alex paid tribute to our group and the work of our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq with a speech that moved everyone in the room.

“It was one of the greatest speeches I have ever heard. It really touched all of us.”
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Not to mention all the other charity stuff he does for Unicef and various others.

What an arrogant bastard.
 
Ok jumbo, point taken...
That is indeed a side of Ferguson that is admirable (if that is English).
The point is that i only see his 'ruthless' football side. But i have to concede that i'm touched by the examples (especially the police man).
 
gerd said:
Ok jumbo, point taken...
That is indeed a side of Ferguson that is admirable (if that is English).
The point is that i only see his 'ruthless' football side. But i have to concede that i'm touched by the examples (especially the police man).
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Yep, that was exactly my point...
Jumbo_ said:
You very rarely hear players or managers say a bad word about him and most speak positively of him and that says a lot to me. His public persona is totally different to the real guy, I'm sure of that.
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Jumbo_ said:
Not to mention all the other charity stuff he does for Unicef and various others.

What an arrogant bastard.
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the problem is not the players, its not wenger, its how we play football when we dont have the ball. We play very well when we have the ball but we are not good at getting it back quick enough...thats the major difference between us and barca, and you cant blame it on not being physical enough or our player been too short...as the barca squad look like midgets and they still manage to be the best team off the ball with intelligent pressing, something we dont do. Also we dont seem to have that leadership as fabregas doesnt look that motivated or that commited to the club as before, yes he still do the job but you can feel that leadership is lacking right now.
 
I agree with the first part of your post lazyForken, but not with the second. I still think Cesc is the leader. That's what i witnessed in the match against Spurs. But Fabregas is not the kind of player who will make dirty and intelligent fouls like Van Bommel (there are other players, but he's the best example). Those players somehow seem to escape when doing horrible fouls (just look at the the match of Holland against Uruguay, just before Van Bronckhorst goal, Van Bommel made an horrible foul that went unnnoticed, it happens quite a lot with him).
 
we deserved to loose. i am frustrated, was sad that night, but i got over it quick. it was deserved! the problem is that we have only song as a real defensive midfielder. he is essential to us right now, cannot be replaced! denilson is merely a shadow, more of a mixture between a dmf and a cmf.
my oppionion is that the team is broken in 2 halfs when playing only one midfielder that is focused on defense. maybe this is why our defenders look bad. when the sidebacks go up very often, and only song is there to help, it's easy to get overwhelmed and to make mistakes.
my view on wenger is that sure he didn't make some transfer when it was obvious; sure he is very stubborn and too offensive, naive actually when he wants to play beautiful football over going straight for the dirty, easy goal, BUT appart from a combo of mourinho + big money! (because that is a must with him) i can't see any other manager which can guarantee success OR can guarantee better performance than our AW. for me the wenger arsenal way is the better way, i personally! prefer it. we're doing better year by year.
it's a good idea to loan ramsey. he can't be expected to challange for the first team after all he went through.
 
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