Manchester United Thread

[Godotelli]

My apologies for being short with you, but I've never gone into your thread to gloat about something. I actually supported City as my 2nd team when Goater was around.

Still, you have to know what you're doing there. Don't pretend you're not trolling.

Not trolling at all and I certainly wasn't gloating. I'm capable of changing my mind on the incidents mentioned but just saying 'everything you wrote is wrong' and fobbing a view off as trolling is lame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pKm0k9O-xY

0:02 RVP offside.

 

[beachryan]

Nani caught Arbeloa in the ribcage and showing knots on top of that. Whether he meant to do it or not is irrelevant, it is Nani's responsibility alone to orient himself to make sure it's safe to bring his foot to a level that would have hit Arbeloa in the neck/face area if he hadn't jumped. Let's say Arbeloa hadn't jumped, and Nani had kicked him in the throat or face, knots first. Then SAF's infamous "He almost killed him!" would have fit perfectly. In football it is the actual action that decides what is right or wrong, not whether the injury was serious or not.

I agree with the rest of your post but this is utter horsesh*t. A player is not in charge of pausing, looking all around the ground to see where everyone is and then deciding whether or not to continue. That is not how football is played.

Gareth Bale had an absolutely beautiful volley earlier in the season, but his foot was well higher than Nani's. Fortunately for Gareth, no defender was trying to block him, or else hey by your logic Bale should have paused, said oh I'm sorry dear chap, are you jumping in there? Well I can't possibly raise my foot can I? Please have the ball.

Have any of you actually played football in your life? Are strikers now supposed to not go for bobbling balls in the box because maybe they'll kick a defender? Are defenders ever allowed to slide tackle? I mean, you never know they might touch another player!!!

Nani did everything right there. He would have controlled that beautifully and been on his way down the wing. Props to Arlbeloa for being brave, but he's the one that initiated the contact.

I know it's fun and games to hate on United, but some of hte posters on here are baffling me tonight.

A red card. The most serious punishment a referee can dish out. For that?

 

[Sabatasso]

I guess we have to agree to disagree then. I don't want football where players are not held responsible for their actions, intentional or not. Overhead kicks and acrobatic volleys are always, and have always, been done at the risk of being booked or worse if everything goes wrong. This time it did, and the card was harsh but fair. It can be defended even if some ref's would have settled for yellow.

The card was bad for the match, especially for the neutrals, but some people say that it's the worst decision ever and stuff like that, they need to get their glasses cleaned.

PS. I dislike Real Madrid at least as much as I dislike Manchester United, so I am fairly unbiased in this matter.

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct
A high foot is not a foul. Playing in a dangerous manner is. If the foot in the air was likely to be dangerous to an opponent, and caused the opponent to hold back from play, then the foul can be called.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_12_fouls_misconduct_en_47379.pdf

Since it is not likely that the ref considered (because of the pace of the game) which way Nani's head was facing during the incident, the red card can be justified by the dangerous manner of the "tackle" itself. Dangerous play is "dangerous" even if it's unintended, though, but referee's tend to go for leniency if it's clear that the player wasn't out for blood. Harsh maybe, definitely justifiable and backed by the rules of the game.

 

[beachryan]

I guess we have to agree to disagree then. I don't want football where players are not held responsible for their actions, intentional or not. Overhead kicks and acrobatic volleys are always, and have always, been done at the risk of being booked or worse if everything goes wrong. This time it did, and the card was harsh but fair. It can be defended even if some ref's would have settled for yellow.

The card was bad for the match, especially for the neutrals, but some people say that it's the worst decision ever and stuff like that, they need to get their glasses cleaned.

You're not listening. By your logic EVERY bicycle kick has to be a red card.

There's a reason referees are given guidance, not hard and fast rules. In the context of a football game, that is is no way a red card. I've only seen 2 referee's opinions so far and both are still flabbergasted it's a red (Dermot Gallagher and Graham Poll).

Referee's are expected to protect players above all - absolutely. But Nani didn't endanger Arlbeloa. He's fine.

 

[matherto]

Utter bullshit tonight. Pure and simple bullshit.

 

[PU6HY]

For the love of sweet f*cking God can this put to bed the 'United own the refs' bullsh*t.

Am disgusted. So proud of our performance, but you can't beat the (2nd?) best team in the world with 10 men.

Ruined by the ref. May he have a very, very unhappy retirement. BUT I really hope United fans don't go all Chelsea and send him death threats.

I haven't been this angry since we got knocked out by Porto after a linesman ruled out a Scholes goal that settled when he was played onside by THREE defenders.

Considering your past comments about high / over the top / raised foot challenges etc. I thought you'd say it was a dangerous tackle? Hmm, funny that you haven't this time.

I wouldn't have sent him off but at least I'm consistent. From certain angles you can see why the ref did give a red and one decision against United obviously won't put to bed anything about refs favouring them.

I took my eye off the road once having a butchers at a bit of eye candy and BANG! I crashed straight into car in front. Wasn't my fault though. I wasn't looking

I also didn't see United fans unhappy when Shelvey got sent off at Anfield earlier in the season. His foot was only 1 foot off the ground! Not 4!! Nani had two feet off the ground and wasn't in control.

 

[PU6HY]

I hadn't actually read last few posts before my previous post but...

How did Arbeloa initiate anything? He was just going for ball.

And just because he's fine, its ok? There's a chance he could have come out with a smashed rib. He didn't but that comment is ridiculous.

Look, I think it was a harsh sending off but I do laugh at the tad bit of bias from some when I've read some shit in the past.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

That's all well and good but maybe you'd have a point if he was ACTUALLY TRYING TO TACKLE THE PLAYER!

he wasn't, he was trying to control a ball going over his shoulder only for Arbeloa to get their just ahead of him.

considering your always going on about Sunday League, surely you'd understand that if a player decided to not bother trying to control a football incase someone ran into them they'd be laughed of the pitch, this isn't Sunday league its the biggest game of the season where commitment should be at its highest.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

You're not listening. By your logic EVERY bicycle kick has to be a red card.

There's a reason referees are given guidance, not hard and fast rules. In the context of a football game, that is is no way a red card. I've only seen 2 referee's opinions so far and both are still flabbergasted it's a red (Dermot Gallagher and Graham Poll).

Referee's are expected to protect players above all - absolutely. But Nani didn't endanger Arlbeloa. He's fine.

Not only would overhead bicycle kicks be outlawed, surely keepers punching the ball away in a crowded area would run the risk of a red... If the punch misses a ball and connects with a player that could be deemed dangerous

 

[dplane]

Just read the Ref follows Madrid, Barca and Ronaldo on his twitter account and apparently is friends with the head of the Spanish FA. The twitter account looks legit. Of course he is free to do whatever he wants but after this it doesn't seem particularly clean. Still, I don't want to become one of those silly conspiracy theorists so Ill leave it at that

Anyhoo..the hatred for anything Utd by fans from other teams is always hilarious. Accusing us of being biased while being biased yourself. Classic.
Bringing up examples of cases where Utd fans didn't complain about a red card against our opponent also isn't exactly a good counter argument. How many Madrid fans do you think are complaining about this tonight? Right.

 

[Godotelli]

Err... overhead kicks and flying volleys are outlawed if you wack the defender in the process.

 

[PU6HY]

That's all well and good but maybe you'd have a point if he was ACTUALLY TRYING TO TACKLE THE PLAYER!

he wasn't, he was trying to control a ball going over his shoulder only for Arbeloa to get their just ahead of him.

considering your always going on about Sunday League, surely you'd understand that if a player decided to not bother trying to control a football incase someone ran into them they'd be laughed of the pitch, this isn't Sunday league its the biggest game of the season where commitment should be at its highest.

Always banging on about Sunday league? I may have mentioned it in the past to put things in context but calm down dear, don't go overboard.

And I was winding him up by the way but the wrong little fishy has bit. Now put your little triple facepalm picture away will you. That's a good boy.

 

[Sabatasso]

You're not listening. By your logic EVERY bicycle kick has to be a red card.

I challenge you to quote me on that, because you can't.

There's a reason referees are given guidance, not hard and fast rules. In the context of a football game, that is is no way a red card. I've only seen 2 referee's opinions so far and both are still flabbergasted it's a red (Dermot Gallagher and Graham Poll).

Referee's are expected to protect players above all - absolutely. But Nani didn't endanger Arlbeloa. He's fine.

Using your own words, context:
Situation viewpoint 1: Red Card
The ref saw Nani stretch his foot out while jumping, knots first, and hit Arbeloa in the ribcage.

Situation viewpoint 2: Booking
The ref saw Nani try to control a ball and accidentally hit Arbeloa in the ribcage while showing knots.


Now, which of the two situations do you think the referee thought he saw?
You can't expect him to (your words) "pause the game" and consider which way Nani's head is facing and magically come to the conclusion that this was all a bad mishap.

Lastly, the players are ALWAYS responsible for where they put their feet. They just can't be booked or sent off when nothing dangerous happens because of their actions. Bicycle kicks are fine unless you kick someone in the skull, obviously. There is ALWAYS the danger of hitting someone in the head while attempting a bicycle kick, and it's up to the player whether they want to risk it.

The phrase "I didn't mean to" only gets you this far and doesn't mean jack shit to the player with a few broken ribs or a dislocated jaw.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Yes, well done you 'winz at th internetz!'

but thank you for clarifying you actually didn't have a point and were just trolling, back under your rock you go

 

[PU6HY]

Yes, well done you 'winz at th internetz!'

but thank you for clarifying you actually didn't have a point and were just trolling, back under your rock you go

Hey, I had point but was still winding him up aswell. It is possible you know. I believe he contradicts himself at times though. If you have a problem with that then tough titties

Chill out a bit though. I know your team has just lost but no need to take it out on me young man. I'm only messing about. Try it sometime.

 

[dplane]

I hope the lads will find strength out of these games. Over the course of the 2 games we played excellent and we would have deservedly gone through had things happened slightly differently.

Some positives I am taking away from this;

• -Tactically we were brilliant
• -Kagawa (first game) and Welbeck (both games) stepped up to the plate and showed that they have a ton of potential.
• -De Gea is a superb goalie. Especially considering his very young age for his position, he should only get better.
• -We still have some of the best defenders in the world. Only true weak spot was Rafael's lack of composure at times and Evra's lack of pace. Rafael has shown that once he calms down and composes himself he can go toe to toe with the world's best. Evra needs a solid backup. He can't do his usual run forwards and trace backwards as quick as he used to. Not for a full 90min against top competition at least. Still, great player.
• -Nani has been impressive these last 2 weeks or so. Hope today doesn't get him down so he can continue his positive trend for the remainder of the season.
• -While RvP didn't quite play into the most advanced role in both legs, and he missed some (by his standards) sitters, his movement, corners and most of all linkup and holdup plays are bar none on this team. His increased strength is noticeable..the guy just won't get tackled or fall down. Perhaps he should take a page out of Suarez's book every now and then. Could see him moving back into more of a number 10 or forward winger position as he gets older.
• -And last...but certainly not least: Giggsy; what an athlete. Almost 40 and he is still running with the best of em. Absolutely amazing. If you would ve told me during the first half of the season that we'd sign him for another year I'd say you're an idiot. Now I'd say you're an idiot for not offering him another year.

Time to pummel Chelski into oblivion over the weekend.

 

[beachryan]

I challenge you to quote me on that, because you can't.

Using your own words, context:
Situation viewpoint 1: Red Card
The ref saw Nani stretch his foot out while jumping, knots first, and hit Arbeloa in the ribcage.

Situation viewpoint 2: Booking
The ref saw Nani try to control a ball and accidentally hit Arbeloa in the ribcage while showing knots.


Now, which of the two situations do you think the referee thought he saw?
You can't expect him to (your words) "pause the game" and consider which way Nani's head is facing and magically come to the conclusion that this was all a bad mishap.

And yet you think it was 'fair' that he paused the game and came to the conclusion that it was scenario 1. That's my whole point. He can't have been 100% sure it was scenario 1 or 2. Given that, he should err on the side of caution (literally). It's just like a penalty. You can't give it unless you're sure.

The phrase "I didn't mean to" only gets you this far and doesn't mean jack shit to the player with a few broken ribs or a dislocated jaw.

That's not true either. Eboue (I believe) kicked John Terry flush in the face and knocked him out. Wasn't even a foul, free kick correctly ruled the other way. The extent on one's injury does not determine the punishment. Antonio Valencia had his leg snapped in two by a perfectly fine tackle, no one was screaming for red.

 

[beachryan]

Err... overhead kicks and flying volleys are outlawed if you wack the defender in the process.

But it's deemed reckless and not a red card offense.

No one is saying Nani didn't deserve a yellow. They're saying to be a straight red for that is ludicrous.

 

[beachryan]

‏@VincentKompany Never a red card.

And that's a man that knows about being wrongly sent off!

 

[bebo]

I just wonder what was the Jose Mourinho
chant about? Surely it wasn`t the away fans sing that, unless they were given microphones .

 

[beachryan]

I just wonder what was the Jose Mourinho
chant about? Surely it wasn`t the away fans sing that, unless they were given microphones .

It was 'Sit down Mourinho'

 

[Sabatasso]

And yet you think it was 'fair' that he paused the game and came to the conclusion that it was scenario 1. That's my whole point. He can't have been 100% sure it was scenario 1 or 2. Given that, he should err on the side of caution (literally). It's just like a penalty. You can't give it unless you're sure.

Maybe the ref was waiting for Nani to get on his feet after his fake injury.

That's not true either. Eboue (I believe) kicked John Terry flush in the face and knocked him out. Wasn't even a foul, free kick correctly ruled the other way. The extent on one's injury does not determine the punishment. Antonio Valencia had his leg snapped in two by a perfectly fine tackle, no one was screaming for red.

That is EXACTLY my point. Nani's flying kick could potentially severely injure Arbeloa, and since they connected the decision was fair enough. I don't see why you can object to a red card for a kung-fu move on the football pitch... a flying kick is NEVER unintentional even if he didn't try to kick the Madrid player. Nani made a choice, he went for it and he failed "Murphy's Law" style. If you look at the replays he even followed through, never looked like retracting his leg at all. Fair red card, that's life and get over it.

 

[Lami]

Maybe the ref was waiting for Nani to get on his feet after his fake injury.



That is EXACTLY my point. Nani's flying kick could potentially severely injure Arbeloa, and since they connected the decision was fair enough. I don't see why you can object to a red card for a kung-fu move on the football pitch... a flying kick is NEVER unintentional even if he didn't try to kick the Madrid player. Nani made a choice, he went for it and he failed "Murphy's Law" style. If you look at the replays he even followed through, never looked like retracting his leg at all. Fair red card, that's life and get over it.

I'm sorry I can't agree with you at all. Things aren't just black and white. There are rules but there are also grey areas where situations need to be taken into consideration. In this situation and going by the rules yes it's a foul. Whether or not a yellow or red should be given is another case. A player jumping for the ball to be won without being extremely reckless should never be a red. A player doing a de jong is forever a red. If you cannot differentiate between the two then you're not one able to judge wisely.

 

[Sabatasso]

KUNG FU IS NOT ALLOWED ON THE FOOTBALL PITCH. How the bloody fuck is that so hard to understand?

 

[gerd]

I'm being polite and I'm politely asking you to please at least wait till tomorrow to post again in this thread, it will just cause trouble right now. Thank you.

I was planning to come in this thread to post out of sympathy because Man Utd was treated unfairly yesterday.
After reading some posts here i remember why i avoid this thread.
Some of you are total jerks.
Godotelli did not nothing wrong, he never provoked by one of his posts.
I know this post will be seen as a provocation by somebody who "hates" Man Utd and i know the whole tribe will react offended now, but jesus...can't you guys see that people have the right to have different opinions than yours.
It's as if your favourite club has a divine right to all the silverware in the world. Injustice is a full part of football, yesterday's referee was a joke and Man Utd deserved to go thorough. But at least you could take it with some style.

i was once asked to be a mod on this forum, i refused because i would b a bad mod (too impulsive). I would have banned a couple of people for the reactions on godotelli's post. Still frustrated because City won the EPL last season ? Jesus... get a life.

To all the real fans of Man Utd: sorry for this rant, and next year will be better.

PS: Wellbeck was superb...

 

[Lami]

KUNG FU IS NOT ALLOWED ON THE FOOTBALL PITCH. How the bloody fuck is that so hard to understand?

How's it hard to understand that wasn't Kung Fu?

 

[Sabatasso]

So you're saying that if I score a volley goal without meaning to, it's not a volley goal?

If I ski down a hill and jump on something without meaning to, it's not a jump?

If I buy a diet coke without meaning to, it's not a diet coke?

Reality check, please Lami.

 

[Lami]

Not a kung fu kick. Player simply jumping to reach for the ball to either flick it on or control it, with eyes on ball. Clash happened. Foul given. No red. Move on.

 

[spektarm]

Wow! Some of you just can't see it clear when it comes to United, can you?

Saba, with all due respect, here's the example I'd give:

We have, let's say, Ibrahimovic on the ball, with his back turned to the opponents' goal, he is to receive a pass which he has to trap with his back turned to the opponent, let's say, Lennon. As Ibra receives the ball he has his eyes completely on the ball he doesn't realise that Lennon is rushing in behind his back, he's turning towards his side and while in the shielding position, Ibra has his arms at chest height. Suddenly Lennon comes full speed and smashes his face into Ibra's elbow. By the rule book, that's an elbow to the face, straight red. But will it be justified if given? I'll leave that for you to decide.

 

[Lami]

A Turkish former referee has claimed that Cuneyt Cakir's hopes of refereeing in the Champions League final have been dashed in the wake of his decision to send off Nani in the second leg of the last-16 tie between Manchester United and Real Madrid.

The 36-year-old official has been accused by some in the media of making the wrong call after he chose to dismiss the Portuguese winger for what he saw as an excessive high boot on Blancos full-back Alvaro Arbeloa.

Speaking after Tuesday's match, Serdar Tatli - a former Uefa referee - expressed his regret that Cakir's actions at Old Trafford may well have cost his compatriot the opportunity of presiding over a European curtain-raiser this season.

"Nani is looking for the ball. By the time Alvaro Arbeloa arrives, the Portuguese [Nani] doesn't even see him," he told NTVSpor.

"The action is definitely not deliberate. As his intention was to only play the ball, it should have been a yellow at the most.

"I am proud as a Turk to see Cuneyt at this stage, but he lowered his chances of a European Cup final last night [on Tuesday]."

Goal.com