Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

well, Totti is like one of my favourite players of the past, Matt Le Tissier, a guy who decided to play his whole career in the same team.
And yes, it is really underrated:he's been the best 1-touch passer in the world in the last 15 years (something incredible, noone was so good doing that) and a fantastic striker since he started to play as center forward and not trequartista....by the way i think also gerd is right: Totti decided to stay in Rome also because there he's been the 8th king of the city, while in Madrid or Milan he'd been "only" one of the great player of a team full of great players.
another negative aspect about him is the "lack of nuts" , he has never done something like other players mentioned by lo zio: i mean, bringing a team to victory (or a final match) in a big international competition....baggio did it,maradona did it, cruyff did it, zidane did it, but totti has never done it (well, he played a nice Euro2000 but that's all)....
Considering the financial crisis of Roma, i think that a 5 years contract (earning millions and millions) is not a choice really useful for the team.... he's already a millionaire,he's old, so why doesn't he play with a low salary if he really love so much his club?
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

gerd there isn't a pond big enough to make francesco look like a small fish.
those who watched francesco playing during his peak will know he he would have overshadowed any player in any team (except maradona maybe.... and i'm not even sure).

gigi i wouldn't describe him as the best first touch passer in the last 15 years only.... his overall passing ability is probably the best i've ever seen indeed..... and to be sincere i find it hard to believe that someone in the past (even before 15 years ago) has ever been able to do the things he did..... with the same consistency he showed.
i can't think of any other player who showed such an insane consistency all along his peak period... i mean u can take any totti match from 1999 to 2004 (except his italy matches) and come up with a 3 minutes video compilation.
an italian journalist specialized in stats came out with an unbelievable data last year: if u take the seasons from 1999 to 2002 the 38% of totti's passes turned out to be assists to a goal......that's just crazy.... we're not talking about a player who doesn't get involved in the game that often... we're talking about the fulcrum of the team... the player who gets more balls than anybody else during each game..... and he was able (despite a pretty much constant double marking) to transform almost half of the balls he received into assists..... van basten, baggio, zidane they could only dream such consistency.

it would be impossible to experience such consistency even in a videogame. i mean take a player on fifa or pes, boost all his stats to 99 and then try to get with that player more balls than any other and to turn 4 out of 10 of his plays into assists.... that is just unreal... even for a videogame.

and let's not forget that the majority of those assists didn't came out from "normal" brilliant passes or through balls (as it is for any other trequartista in the history of the game)..... most of those assists came out from no-look 1st touch pinpoint passes.
people created the word "no-look pass" when ronaldinho began to perform some 10 meters sweet no look sweet through balls....
the truth is, years before ronaldinho, totti used to perform on a weekly basis 10, 20 meters no-look passes and 30 meters no-look lobs...... and not in spain (where u can confortably sit in the trequartista's area with no pressure at all)... he did it in italy... wich means dealing with 2 men (one on zone coverage and another on man marking) already on your 2nd touch (that is infact the reason why he decided to focus himself on 1-touch passing game... it was impossible for him to hold the ball for more than 1 second without having to deal with a sliding tackle).
and that wasn't a "highlight move" for him.... u could count 3,4 of those unbelievable passes for each and every match.... that was infact his most common move.

so yes gigi, an amazing overall passer, but as for 1st touch passing i wouldn't even say he's the best of the last 15 years. because by saying he was "the best" u're implying a comparison with others great 1st touch passers..... while i don't think such a comparison is possible.
- most of the greatest 1st touch passers used to play with their eyes on their targets, while francesco used to deliver those passes "blind" (as his targets were on his backs.... and that's another unique feature of francesco.... every trequartista always played with his eyes oriented on his targets, while francesco used to play with his back oriented to his targets, as if he were a foward).
- all the greatests first touch passers were able, thanks to their vision, to skip 1 single tempo (1 play, one pass). that is "anticipating the game". totti instead (as caressa correctly remarked just a few days ago) is the only one who has ever been able to skip 2 tempos..... and that's beyond the concept of anticipation..... that isn't vision. that's visionary. as a trequartista totti didn't just anticipate the game.... he used to live the entire match on a different tempo than every other player on the pitch, and that's the only possible explanation for his passes.
a great trequartista with a great fist touch passing game sees his teammates movement, reads the play and then anticipates it with a killer pass.
that's not what totti used to do. he never saw his targets, as he used to play with his back to them... he didn't read the game (because to read, u gotta see, and u can't really see a thing when u're watching on the other side of the pitch)... he felt the game, and that makes all the difference in the world.
that's what makes him unique... absolutely uncomparable to any other great 1st touch passer.... because his 1st touch passes were just something different from zidane's, baggio's, mancini's, ronaldinho's first touch passes.

when u see a player (even a great player like the ones i mentioned) performing a blind 30 meters through ball wich lands with a ridiculous accuracy right on the feet of the target, then u're seeing that player performing the pass of his life.
but when u see a player performing that pass 3, 4 times per match on a weekly basis for 3 years, then u're witnessing something unique. something that just can't be compared to anything else. and that's what i'm talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHiv3JngHoU&fmt=18
u can write "zidane passes" or "baggio's passes" on youtube and u'll find dozens of compilations with the same plays repeated over and over. do it with totti and u won't see the same play twice. that gives u a pretty good idea of his consistency

gigi said:
Totti decided to stay in Rome also because there he's been the 8th king of the city, while in Madrid or Milan he'd been "only" one of the great player of a team full of great players.
Click to expand...
no way mate. he would have become the star player in every team in europe... he would have overshadowed zidane too in madrid. u sure followed zidane's experience in madrid and totti's carreer in roma.... and, by reading your post, i can see u got a chance to watch totti during his peak (wich means u also watched zidane during his peak, as they were pretty much coeval)....given the world-wide legendary reputation zidane earned himself in madrid, u really believe totti wouldn't have earned an even bigger reputation if he would have accepted florentino's offers? i tell you, he would be even beyond zidane right now (as, let's be honest, zidane had almost the same class of totti, but his consistency was nowhere near totti's consistency).... he would be mentioned along with crujff, maradona and baggio right now.
sure by staying in roma, he became the city idol, but most of the fans outside italy consider him nothing more than a very talented player. if he would have gone to madrid or milano he would have become a world-wide legend, not just a roma legend... that's what he left by choosing to stay in roma, and i believe that's also the reason why now he's getting such a profitable contract. it's roma's way to say "thank u for not leaving us when u got the chance, thank u for giving up to world-wide glory when u where the best offensive midfielder in the world".

gigi said:
another negative aspect about him is the "lack of nuts" , he has never done something like other players mentioned by lo zio: i mean, bringing a team to victory (or a final match) in a big international competition....baggio did it,maradona did it, cruyff did it, zidane did it
Click to expand...
sorry but i gotta disagree on this one too mate. all the legends u mentioned played in the best clubs in the world (juve, milan, real madrid, barcelona, argentina's national team.... even maradona's napoli was pretty much on par with milan those days.... and that milan was one of the best teams in the world). victory in football is never an individual thing. no matter how great are the individuals, victory is always a team effort in football, so we can't really say that crujff (alone) brought barcelona to victory or that zidane (alone) brought real madrid and france to victory or that baggio (alone) brought juventus to victory.
totti unlike, all those legends, had just one chance to play in one of the world best teams (during capello's era at roma, when roma actually was one of the best teams) and when he got that chance, he won the scudetto.... and let me say that (most of the guys here won't really understand this point, but being italian, i'm sure u will) winning a scudetto in roma is more impressive than winning 5 titles in a row with a team like real madrid, barca, juve or milan.

Gerd, the reason why totti never performed with italy's shirt is pretty simple. totti's game main feature lies in his unpredictability.... just take a look at that vid i posted. he gets the ball.... he's gonna hold it for less than 1 second.... and his opponents have absolutely no idea where the ball is gonna be in the next 3 seconds... it might be on montella's feet (who might well be 30 meters far from totti), it might be on batistuta's feet, it might be on cafu's feet (i'm picking them as they were his teammates back in the days when he used to play at midfield). with italy instead, he always had just 1 striker ahead of him (first vieri, then toni).
and if u give totti just one available target, then it gets pretty easy to nullify him.... since u can't pretty much get the ball away from him (as totti holds it for just the time of a single touch) u set up a tight double marking on his only possible target.... and here u go, totti's passing game becomes pretty much harmless. so bottom line his poor performances with italy weren't really totti's fault... it's more trapattoni's fault.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I watched that video with pleasure Ben, some great passes there...
What is it about Roma that they've had so many great players but are a relatively unsuccessfully club ?
A club that has had players like: Falcao, Bruno Conti, Cerezo,the great, great Gianini (together with Redondo my all-time favourite player), Montella, Batistuta, Totti (and i forget dozens others) should have won more silverware.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

lo zio said:
totti unlike, all those legends, had just one chance to play in one of the world best teams (during capello's era at roma, when roma actually was one of the best teams) and when he got that chance, he won the scudetto.... and let me say that (most of the guys here won't really understand this point, but being italian, i'm sure u will) winning a scudetto in roma is more impressive than winning 5 titles in a row with a team like real madrid, barca, juve or milan.
Click to expand...
Agreed. They had a great season that year, nearly 10 years ago now. Wonder why they couldn't build on that success in the following years.

lo zio said:
Gerd, the reason why totti never performed with italy's shirt is pretty simple. totti's game main feature lies in his unpredictability.... just take a look at that vid i posted. he gets the ball.... he's gonna hold it for less than 1 second.... and his opponents have absolutely no idea where the ball is gonna be in the next 3 seconds... it might be on montella's feet (who might well be 30 meters far from totti), it might be on batistuta's feet, it might be on cafu's feet (i'm picking them as they were his teammates back in the days when he used to play at midfield). with italy instead, he always had just 1 striker ahead of him (first vieri, then toni).
and if u give totti just one available target, then it gets pretty easy to nullify him.... since u can't pretty much get the ball away from him (as totti holds it for just the time of a single touch) u set up a tight double marking on his only possible target.... and here u go, totti's passing game becomes pretty much harmless. so bottom line his poor performances with italy weren't really totti's fault... it's more trapattoni's fault.
Click to expand...
Zoff played like that too in Euro 2000. I could never figure out why, seemed to me that they Italy had sufficient defensive cover with Albertini and Conti in midfield. In fact they were arguably better/more complete than the pairing of Emerson and Tommasi. Interestingly enough, Totti developed that part of his game later on, playing as a CF/SS alongside Cassano, Montella, Vucinic, now he's strictly a CF supported by Vucinic and Menez on the flanks (I assume due to his loss of pace). Going back to his sub-par international performances, I think it may have been a tad bit psychological. As time wore on, he probably lost confidence in his abilities outside of Roma.

Oh, and here's something that had to be seen to be believed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brwPxqVNH4A
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Ernestito said:
DANILEVICIUS! :D

great win, very very important. now lets finish 2009 with 3 points against sampdoria.
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DANILEVICIUS AGAIN! :D

2 wins in a row for the first time this season against a good team like sampdoria. I was not thinking that Livorno will manage to reverse the result but they really surprised me and scored 3 (!!!) times.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

The last victory of Catania against Juventus dates back to 1963 or so ! But they did it again.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Anis, the last win of Catania PLAYING AWAY :)

But we are keen on breaking all the records in this period :P
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

well rfu, to be fair they did build on that success, as roma was a serious title contender also for the following years.... then the financial crisis came....
anyhow to be honest, that wasn't a real sucessful management imo..... as it was based on a huge overdraft.. they bought some great players (emerson, batistuta, etc...) regardless their financial situation.....
when i think about sucessful managements, i think about fiorentina, udinese, napoli, clubs who built great teams with their own funds....and that takes some serious managing skills.
everyone can build an amazing team with bond bail and bank fideiussions..... the point is banks won't feed u forever.... sooner or later they'll ask their money back.

concerning juve, it's unbelievable how the board repeat the same mistakes... again and again and again..... last season they questioned ranieri (who was not the main responsible), now they're putting pressure on ferrara.
obviously ferrara wasn't really a great choice, but he's got nothing to do with juventus real problems: a general manager wich is pretty much an amateur (seriously we can't call secco a professional) and a board (chairman) with no authority, no grip on the players at all.

ranieri came out with some very interesting revelations sunday....

btw, this huge downfall might be a good thing for juve long term......... if the situation is gonna get better right after the holydays, the agnelli family might just move on and pretend this was just a short crisis..... maybe they might just decide to sack ferrara (wich wouldn't solve juve's problem, aswell as sacking ranieri didn't).... but if juve keep loosing like this for, say, the whole jannuary schedule, then the agnelli family will be bound to rebuild the entire organization chart from scratch.... wich means a new chairman and a new team director......and that would be the real solution to juve's problems.

on a different note: apparently fiorentina bought felipe from udinese.... a 9 millions deal, they say..... another great signing from corvino, damn bastard son of a b... ! :P
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Juve are a pain to watch... Why do they keep their passing so direct at home when they have the likes of Marchisio and Diego? Another thing that bugs me in Juve is that they still use Caceres as DR.. adaptations? A club like juventus needs to do adaptations? For gods sake, they have the money to invest in a DMF that is ubber crap imo, yet they fail to find a good defender? Unbelievable..
And i used to make fun of Ac milan...
(long time, no posts) :D
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

They officially say after every match that he will stay... this doesn't mean a thing, though.
I hope he does stay, though. Changing now wouldn't be much useful, if at all :\
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Neoexodus said:
Juve are a pain to watch... Why do they keep their passing so direct at home when they have the likes of Marchisio and Diego? Another thing that bugs me in Juve is that they still use Caceres as DR.. adaptations? A club like juventus needs to do adaptations? For gods sake, they have the money to invest in a DMF that is ubber crap imo, yet they fail to find a good defender? Unbelievable..
And i used to make fun of Ac milan...
(long time, no posts) :D
Click to expand...

yep, both milan and juve made many, many mistakes talking about market strategies in the last 2 years.

although ferrara is definitely not to blame for this current situation (the board and the general manager secco being the real main responsibles) i can't honestly see ferrara staying for much longer in torino.... he's just too unexperienced to coach a top team, and he's not talented enough to make up for his lack of experience.....
it's grotesque actually.... usually the top teams in the leagues are also the ones with the best coaches..... while in italy the top team's coaches (inter, milan and juve) are by far the poorests....

people usually complain about the big stars departures (like ibra or kaka), but to be fair i don't think that's an issue at all. we sell and buy champions every year... and milan, juve and inter certainly don't lack of stars.....
but our top teams major issue right now is the lack of good market strategists (milan, juve and inter sport directors are the poorests in the league) and the lack of a serious coaching guidance.
just a few years ago milan had ancelotti, juve had capello, roma had spalletti and inter had mancini (who isn't exactly on par with the others, but who still is light years ahead of mourinho).... when u look at those 4 teams's coaches now, the situation is just tragic.... ranieri is the only good one, and yet he's nowhere near those 4 coaches i mentioned above.

btw wellcome back pal :))
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

lo zio said:
it's grotesque actually.... usually the top teams in the leagues are also the ones with the best coaches..... while in italy the top team's coaches (inter, milan and juve) are by far the poorests....
Click to expand...
Milan and Juventus wanted to copy Barça's strategy with the young and homegrown Guardiola. The only (huge) difference is that Barcelona has at least 7 phenomenos (puyol, xavi, alves, iniesta, messi, henry and eto'o/ibra) that doesn't need a coach to play together (I bet also me can win something with that team)....how much big players have Milan and Juventus? Too few to compare with spanish tank...
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Actually mate Berlusconi has a history of hiring some unexperienced coaches. On top of that, Leo was from last year linked to the Milan job so I wouldn't say Milan copied them.

I think the formation is similar but the financial and player especially speed abilities are not to compare between Milan and Barcelona although some players are quite similar like Pirlo and Xavi(the latter is being used better) and Nesta and Puyol.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

No mate, he hired Leonardo only because he needed a "clean face" to calm the supporters after he sold Kakà. And also he (and Galliani) needed a calm coach to impose him their decisions (for example, Ronaldinho...Leo often wanted to play without him, but he can't...) like they did with Ancelotti.

The natural substitute of Ancelotti was always Tassotti, but are you sure the supporters could be happy with the "normal" Tassotti or is it better and young and fresh face like Leonardo?
To me Tassotti have more and more football knowledge that Leonardo. He was Ancelotti's assistant, he know players. To me he had to be the best choice.

To me this is an oblivious thing: or you hire a world class or famous coach (Ancelotti-Chelsea, Mourinho-Inter) or a young and team's legend (Guardiola, Ferrara, Leonardo), or the supporters will complain after first defeat (it's what is happening to Pellegrini...he's good but not famous)

Zeem said:
I think the formation is similar but the financial and player especially speed abilities are not to compare between Milan and Barcelona
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Totally true! You touched a good point. Milan is saving a lot of money from these "dark" years, when Barça is making absurd high buys. I'm referring about the reserve Chygrynsky who was paid 25 mln...more money than what Milan spent for Alexandre Pato a couple of years ago, when Pato was already an amazing and promising player but Milan was criticized for the amount of money for an unproved player. I think we need to like Barça gameplay, but be aware of the money they are spending, more than Chelsea and Inter who were spendthrift teams but now started to spend less and less (this morning I read that this will be the first year that Moratti will end the market window with a positive balence, thanks to Barça :D )
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Enjoy it...(but i hope you don't mind that i hope that Genoa wins...i really like them...).
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Too bad Di Canio is gone :LOL:

About Milan:

We're linked to Dzeko and 25m... complete waste of money and not worth it. Our best characteristic this season is the attack, so why sign a striker? Huntelaar can't even break into the squad... and Borriello is definitely untouchable... Dzeko would be a waste. I'd rather we got someone like Pepe for the wings.

We need to get rid of deadwood like Kaladze and Favalli, and get physically strong wingbacks/fullbacks... similar to Maicon/Dani Alves (there aren't many around but there are certainly better ones than ours right now. Antonini has been showing potential so should play more games.

I'd also like to see, even though I know he hates it -- play with Borriello wide a la Iaquinta wiht Huntelaar in the middle. I know Huntelaar can be a huge hit if he gets continuity... imo he's better than Pippo these days.

I like the links with Astori, Demel and Mugongo (forgot his name)... theyre physical and quick defenders, something we need... sort of like Jaap Stam 4 years ago... really offered something to the team and made us untouchable for ball possession. I also am really disappointed with Pirlo this season... I think its clear Seedorf is more useful than him now, although Seedorf has those odd games where he doesn't run at all and it really frustrates me that the likes of Flamini and Di Gennaro are on the bench.

I don't think we need attacking players, we just signed Adiyah who's meant to be a starlet... so lets play him. Then lets sign a very solid defender to gradually replace Nesta or Zambrotta. Also... has Abbiati died??? He was meant to be back in October...

With the current squad, I'd play like this instead:

----------Borriello----------
Ron--------------------Pato
---------------------------
---Ambro----------Becks (Seed)
---------Flamini-------------
---------------------------
Zamb---Nest----Silv----Anton
---------------------------
----------Dida-------------
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I don't get the Astori love. Especially for Milan. He is a left sided CB, and you already have Thiago Silva who is WAY better and very young still. Kjaer makes a lot of sense for Milan, but he'd cost a lot of dough and likely won't leave this transfer period. I agree that Milan needs a dynamic Wing Player. Weather it is a SB or WF. The closest thing they have is Abate, but he is still a work in progress whose greatest assets are speed and effort. Do you really think that Pirlo will be dropped to the bench? They have 4 really good sort of attack minded MF with Becks, Seedorf, Ronaldinho and Pirlo. Likely they will play 3 of them at a time. So it will be a lot of responsibility defensivle for Flamini, Ambrosini or Gatusso...likely not solving their Defense problems. If you notice Flamini is the only Under-30 of the bunch.

Have fun at the match, sounds like a great match the go to.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Good performance by Milan, but I am quite disappointed. The fact that the game was at 8:45pm (to favour TV viewers), a fan ban (thanks to a miniority of idiots) and San Siro's awful pitch greatly affected the attendance. Traditionally Milan-Genoa has always been a huge rivalry, but we couldn't fill the stadium.... which I think also relates to the late fixture on a Wednesday. Also the state of the Milan curva is so different from 5 years ago when it was organized by the Brigate or FDL who had a drummer, correography and organized chants. Last night all i heard was things against LegaCalcio - (facciamo che cazzo che vogliamo) and (genoano pezzo di merda) all game. ...

Other than that, Milan were great while attacking and Beckham had a good debut. I thought Thiago Silva was awesome too, as was Antonini and Ambrosini. Mediocre Gattuso, who I think, sadly, wants to go after injury problems, getting booed recently and losing the captainship to Ambrosini. Pirlo was too slow today, as in he wasn't aware enough and lost the ball quite a lot in defense. Ronaldinho and Borriello were moving alot and creating space for Ambro to get in the box...


Anyway.. i havent slept yet since i left to the airport at 4am... my flights delayed and I'm still here...
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Stef.... astori, or demel??!!! :SHOCK: are u kidding!!!
it's bonucci or ranocchia!!!!!!!

young, tall cbs, with world class potential, who could possibily take nesta's place when he retires...... there are just a few options....
pique and evans are not on sale.... kjaer is probably gonna move to england (it seems liverpool is more likely than man utd).... besides he's too expensive for milan... ranocchia and bonucci are much cheaper right now (and i'm starting to believe they have even more potential than kjaer and evans).
bocchetti? yeah very promising, great potential, but those 2 bari cbs are even better, and unlike bocchetti, they're probably gonna leave their club in the summer.

unless the whole world is going nuts, there's gonna be a european-wide war this summer to get ranocchia and bonucci.... and if milan doesn't at least join the campaign and tries to get 1 of em.... that'll be one of the biggests mistakes galliani ever did (and it's not like galliani didn't make big mistakes in the past few years).

as for the not full stadium, stef, u also have to take into account that milan sold just 20.000 seasonal tickets this summer (coz of the fans being mad with berlusca and galliani)... so this situation is pretty normal....
besides let's not forget that, when it comes to stadia comfort, facilities, stadia attendances and fans "education", this is one of the worst league in europe....definitely the worst of the top 5 leagues. (little language explanation: should i be saying "worse" or "worst" here??).
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

yup I was surprised by the number of attendance yesterday. Excpected much more.

Football wise, I think Pirlo was good. He defended well and didn't lose the ball as much as Gatusso. Gatusso is an awful passer by the way.

Flamini should be introduced more often as he plays with high mentality. Ambrosini was awesome again. Don't know why Lippi doesn't call him. Is there trouble or did he retire or something?

And yeah Stef, what happened when Ronaldinho gave Huntelaar the penalty? I guess the team convinced him to? :D Anyway, it was well shot by Huntelaar.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I still don't get why one would let Gattuso play when the said one has Flamini (!) on the bench. I'm probably nuts, but Gattuso yesterday was unbearable, I wanted to shoot him in his bloody face.

Never liked him, and now that all my hate is justified I feel a little happier and good looking.

Talking about market, i think Kjaer will move to AC Milan and for sure not in England (I red and interview in which he said he would never move out of italy and stuff like that. Seriously hope he's not a piece of crap like Ibrahimovic.), and yes, Uncle Fester DEFINITELY have to buy Ranocchia. Nesta won't last forever.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

lo zio said:
this is one of the worst league in europe....definitely the worst of the top 5 leagues. (little language explanation: should i be saying "worse" or "worst" here??).
Click to expand...

Worst is correct. :)

Best
Better
SUBJECT
Worse
Worst

Best and worst describe the 1st and last and better and worse is anything in between. So say Germany has the best stadiums, Spains are worse than Germanys but Italy has the worst. Does that make sense?
 
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