Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Ben, you have to love Mangia's passion and interviews. He's the funniest manager in the league by far. He celebrates as if he's won CL and he talks as if he's the underdog in every interview. It's like Diego Simeone last year with Catania. Even after scoring the 3rd goal in a 3-0 match, he would run onto the pitch doing the 'aeroplanino' and sliding on the grass.

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

yep. barreto (one of our cm) was on man marking over hernanes. the problem with setting up one of your central midfielders on man marking is that, by following his man, the midfielder might leave a hole at midfield (and that's certainly something u don't want). so, in order to preserve the team's balance, one of the sidebacks (balzaretti in this case) has to provide some help at midfield. balzaretti's action was limited by his tactical duties and by his coverage assignements sunday.

btw, speaking of sidebacks, a player that impressed me is that pisano (our new rb) i never saw him before this season (he played in serie b till last season) so i didn't know what to expect. offensively he doesn't offer a lot (or at least he didn't so far), but defensively he's a monster. he seems to be a "shutdown rightback"... there's just no way to get past him. sunday he kept konko harmless for the entire game.... and controlling konko is no easy task. anyway i've still only seen him playing a handful of times, so he might aswell be hitting a great form period... let's hope that's not the case and that he actually is this good.

who knows... he certainly had an amazing start. in just a few weeks mangia has given us an identity. sure rossi's palermo would tear mangia's palermo a new one... but that's not mangia's fault...he's doing the best he can with the material he's been given. just take a look at that.

palermo 2009/2010 (coach delio rossi)----------------------------palermo 2010/2011 (coach delio rossi)--------------- palermo 2011/2012 (coach devis mangia)

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as much as i'd love to be pessimistic, the difference between this current formation and the starting 11 palermo fielded in the last 2 seasons is quite evident.

Migliaccio is playing CB!!?!

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

He's also Gattuso that looks like Ballardini!

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Migliaccio played a good match as CB, but i was more impressed by Silvestre. He gave me a very good impression against Lazio.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

silvestre is a fantastic cb Gerd. the partnership with bovo would have been one of the very best in serie a...

Migliaccio is playing CB!!?!

yeah... crazy i know. i really can't understand why we're lining up a midfielder as a cb, when we have 2 perfectly good cbs in our roster. munoz was doing very well last season... he showed some great progresses during the season and proved himself as the very promising cb he was supposed to be.
and then there's cetto, who was signed as goian's replacement, to become our backup cb. as far as i know they're both healthy. i just can't figure it out. what was the point in signing cetto if we end up lining up a midfielder in his position? and why are we wasting a good and young promising cb as munoz (who was a starter last season and with good results) on the bench? i have no idea.

migliaccio is a very vesatile player... but he's just not a cb. and u can tell it by the many mistakes he does when he's lined up in that position. he lacks of the fundamentals of defending (because obviously he was never tought to be a defender). moreover by lining him up as a cb, we're missing the great contribution he can provide as a cm.

Ben, you have to love Mangia's passion and interviews. He's the funniest manager in the league by far. He celebrates as if he's won CL and he talks as if he's the underdog in every interview. It's like Diego Simeone last year with Catania. Even after scoring the 3rd goal in a 3-0 match, he would run onto the pitch doing the 'aeroplanino' and sliding on the grass.

yeah, he's such a lovely guy... so humble and down to earth and yet extremely passionate.
whenever u look at him, he has that sparkle in his eyes... he looks like a kid in a candy shop.... and afterall that's actually how he feels. till a few weeks ago he was palermo's youth team's coach.... he was never supposed to become our first squad coach and he sure didn't expect what happened in the last few weeks.
sogliano (our team director) hired him as our youth team's coach this summer because he was being labelled "the next best thing" (apparently he did an amazing job as novara's youth team coach last season). this is for him an unexpected chance to prove himself on the big stage, and he's obviously enthusiastic about his new job.

Can you tell me something about della Rocca. I've never heard about this player...

he's a young box to box midfielder (23 years old). he came out of bologna's academy (one of the best in italy) as a great prospect, but he never really lived up to the expectations surrounding him.
i only got to see him last season with bologna, because he played in serie b till 2 years ago. last season bologna brought him back and he did great. anyway it was just 1 season and i'm still trying to really figure him out.

3 posts in 1 day... u really can tell i'm having a day off, can u.

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

YouTube - Manchester City vs Napoli 1-1 Highlights Sky Maurizio Compagnoni My favourite commentator of all time - Maurizio Compagnoni. Love his passion for Italian teams in Europe. Go to 1:30. I hope he's doing the Napoli - Villarreal game tonight, which is sold out with 60,000 people. This hasn't happened in years!

Btw, not sure if any of you Italians know, but Tiziano Crudeli (Mental Milan fan 'ED E GOOOLLL') is now doing TV adverts for Ladbrokes in the UK!

YouTube - Tiziano Corner! Ladbrokes TV

 

[tc811]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Yes! I love crazy Milan fan! This guy is great.

He's also Gattuso that looks like Ballardini!

I don't know if anyone else can see it, but he looks like Vin Diesel to me:

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

LOL! good call mate! never noticed it but they really look alike

i completely agree with u on compagnoni, stef. his play-by-play is very good and he's got a great voice (it actually is much deeper and lower than it sounds in that vid).

did u ever see that sky ad where borriello imitates him?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk_YH5Pnorw
rete! rete!! rete!!!
for those of u who don't know him, maurizio compagnoni is the guy walking with the girl (and the redhead walking with him also happens to be his fianceè).

as for the san paolo stadium being sold out, i'm quite sure that happens pretty often during the season stef. unlike many others italian stadia, napoli stadium is almost always packed with fans... and for the big serie a matches it's always sold out

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Sorry Ben, I meant in Europe!

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Always great to see their packed stadium. New project for the stadium on the way also.

LOL! good call mate! never noticed it but they really look alike

Really?! This is the first thing I ever noticed about Migliaccio, even before knowing his name. I am sure I am not alone in this.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Great result for Napoli tonight, but to be honest I always thought they would beat Villareal. Two matches against Bayern now, I think two points will be enough, or even defeat in Munich and win in Napoli. Villareal are very poor, I don't want to be disrespectful, but for the 4th best team in Spain it's shocking, they were totally devoid of ideas - Napoli faced more difficult opposition when I saw them a few years ago in Serie C....

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

What I'm worried about is that it takes a Napoli at 120% all game to win these kinds of games. Against a team like Bayern, I fear they won't be able to cope and can be torn apart.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Great result for Napoli tonight, but to be honest I always thought they would beat Villareal. Two matches against Bayern now, I think two points will be enough, or even defeat in Munich and win in Napoli. Villareal are very poor, I don't want to be disrespectful, but for the 4th best team in Spain it's shocking, they were totally devoid of ideas - Napoli faced more difficult opposition when I saw them a few years ago in Serie C....

Strange how poor they look without Cazorla. It was only last Spring that they faced each other in the Europa League and Villarreal went into the tie as favourites and squeezed through 2-1 on aggregate. How times have changed.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

They looked so bad it was unreal. It's not just Cazorla, they lost Capdevila as well. And a lot of their good players from a few years ago, like Marcos Senna amd Cani are showing their age. Upfront Rossi is ok, but I really don't think he's a spectacularly good player, for me he's Europa League level, and Nilmar is worse, he was found out at Lyon and on the very biggest stage he is just no where near good enough. As for their signings well De Guzman, well I think they picked the wrong brother and should have gone for the ex-Depor one.

I think Napoli have what it takes to beat Bayern in Naples, it will be hard and maybe a draw would be ok, but I think Bayern away will be as hard (not harder) than Man City away. They might have to play at 120% but it's still possible, they were at 120% in Manchester.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

so u didn't wanna sound disrespectful.. and yet in just a few lines u said..:
1 - that u had no doubts napoli would have beaten vilareal
2 - that vilareal were terribly poor, devoid of ideas and comparable to a serie c team.
3 - that rossi is an europa league player and that nilmar is even worse than that.

wow! i can't imagine what u would have come up with if u wanted to sound disrespectful.
we already had this conversation before edmundo, so i won't get into it again. i respect your opinion, but i disagree with u.

i think vilareal is a damn good team. sure they're not as good as they were a few years ago, but that's absolutely normal for a midclass club. also fiorentina and aston villa aren't as good as they were a few years ago.... and in a few years also napoli won't be this good.... that's just how it works for midclass teams.

u're disappointed by the fact they lost many key players, but again, this is absolutely normal for a club like vilareal. no midclass club can hold all their best players for too long.... the appeal and the money of the big clubs will eventually attract most players... this happens to italian midclass clubs, to english midclass clubs and to spanish midclass clubs... so i don't really see what's so disappointing in it.
besides it's not like we're talking about a dismantled team. rossi is still there, cani is there, camunas is there, lopez is there..... not to mention their promising youngsters like musacchio,valero and soriano..... although i realise u probably don't rate any of theese players at all (afterall, if u consider giuseppe rossi an "europa league" player, i honestly don't even wanna know what u think of camunas ).

u're blaming them for their poor performance, and that's another thing i completely disagree with. they weren't devoid of ideas... they never had any time to think. napoli's intensity yesterday was so overwhelming that any other team would have faced the same problems... even barcelona.
every club in italy had a taste of the "san paolo treatment" at least once.... they beated mourinho's inter, they beated milan, they kicked the shit out of juventus.... if u look back at the last 5 years, the second midclass club (the first is palermo) who beated most often the top clubs is napoli.... and if u consider the home games only, napoli has beaten even more top clubs than palermo. u lived in napoli, so u know what it means to play at san paolo stadium.
sure vilareal were crushed, but give napoli credit for that.... if they put up this kind of performance (and that's a big if) then man city and bayern too are going to lose in napoli, so don't blame vilareal.

actually when u look at the numbers, vilareal put up a fight. vilareal had 2 shots on goal (same as napoli), 9 shots overall (even more than napoli) and the 52% of the possession (wich is quite impressive when u think they were the away team).
sure those numbers only tell half the story and i know very well how deceiving match stats can be, so i'm certainly not trying to say they were on par with napoli....... but what i am trying to say is that's highly unappropriate to treat vilareal like shit only because they lost 2-0 against a team like that napoli team we saw yesterday... in napoli.
vilareal tried to play football aswell and they had their chances (several chances)... it just wasn't their night.

now we can have 2 kind of approaches here. we can just go nuts after the single result (just like those english smartasses who labelled spalletti's roma as a "league one team" the day after the 7-1 loss to man utd), or we can try and be reasonable and realise...:
1 - that also better teams than vilareal (such as milan and mourinho's inter) faced the same sort of problems in napoli.
2 - that less than 6 months ago this vilareal team beated napoli (and as good as cazorla is, he's not messi and he can't decide a match on his own)
3 - that despite napoli's outstanding performance, vilareal was actually capable to put up some good numbers and that they were quite unlucky on several occasions.

is napoli a better team than vilareal? sure they are. is vilareal a "serie c" team? absolutely not. this villareal team might be weaker than it was a few years back, but it would still be able to beat half the teams on premier league's table (maybe even more than that) and at least 7 teams in serie a.

like i said edmundo, i respect your opinion on la liga, but i completely disagree with it.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

You can talk about possession stats, but almost all of Villareal's passing was around their back line... they had no attacking intent. Yes they had the same number of shots on target as Napoli, but that ignores the fact that Napoli had scored 2 goals very early on. Napoli could attack at will last night, but there was very little point in Napoli shooting very frequently since they had they game won after 20 mins. The remaining 60-70 mins was like a training exercise for Napoli, to say that "vilareal was actually capable to put up some good numbers and that they were quite unlucky on several occasions" is strange. De Scantis had very little to do, the shots they had, well he almost could have caught them with one arm.

You say not to get carried away by one result and that's true, but Villareal have played 4 games in Europe now, they've lost 3 and won 1. Against Odense they lost the first leg, and Odense is not a great team at all - it finished something like 20 points behind Copenhagen in the Danish league. Villareal won the second leg, at home and so went through in this match, they played ok at times in this second leg. Then they played Bayern at home and were demolished 2-0, again Bayern didn't need to play for most of the second half. In la Liga they have played 5 games and only won one, vs a struggling Mallorca side.

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

This year Napoli is my favourite team in the CL (well Genk are, but they will be over the moon if they finish third in their group), i hope they can be as good asSpurs last year and maybe progress a litle bit further.
I think Napoli were great against Man City. I haven't seen yesterday's match against Villareal, i watched Bayern-City. I was enormously impressed by Bayern Munchen...Napoli's matches against Bayern will be the real test for this Napoli team.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

You can talk about possession stats, but almost all of Villareal's passing was around their back line... they had no attacking intent. Yes they had the same number of shots on target as Napoli, but that ignores the fact that Napoli had scored 2 goals very early on. Napoli could attack at will last night, but there was very little point in Napoli shooting very frequently since they had they game won after 20 mins. The remaining 60-70 mins was like a training exercise for Napoli, to say that "vilareal was actually capable to put up some good numbers and that they were quite unlucky on several occasions" is strange. De Scantis had very little to do, the shots they had, well he almost could have caught them with one arm.

no arguments about that, your observations are definitely correct (except the "they had no attacking intent" one. it was not a matter of intent. the pressure napoli put on vilareal was just too heavy to build a play and i believe any other team would have had the same problems).
afterall, like i already said, i know how unreliable match stats are and how deceptive can be their data. by mentioning those stats i wasn't trying to say vilareal were on par with napoli.... those numbers certainly can't prove that. but what those stats can prove is that villareal tried to put up a fight.
what i am trying to say is that we are not talking about 2 teams which belong to different classes (like say napoli and barcelona) napoli is definitely a better team than vilareal, but they're both midclass teams and the gap between them is not as wide as u're implying (by saying serie c clubs would be more serious opponents).
we're talking about a team wich is facing a transition (pretty much like palermo)... a team wich is struggling, but which does not belong to a different class than napoli.

bottom line, implying serie a is a much better league than la liga, just because of the current situation of vilareal and napoli (wich i believe was the subtext in your posts) is not appropriate imo.

actually there's also another line in your post i disagree with

they had they game won after 20 mins. The remaining 60-70 mins was like a training exercise for Napoli, to say that "vilareal was actually capable to put up some good numbers and that they were quite unlucky on several occasions" is strange

they didn't treat those 70 minutes as a training match at all. that's just not true. napoli were on full throttle for the first 40 minutes and then, once they were starting to run out of gas (since they already had a confortable lead) then went into "damage control mode" shifting the centre of gravity of the team 10 meters behind..... and if anything that makes it even more complicated for the opponent to try and produce some scoring chances.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

no arguments about that, your observations are definitely correct (except the "they had no attacking intenr" one. it was not a matter of intent. the pressure napoli put on vilareal was just too heavy to build a play and i believe any other team would have had the same problems).

But it's not just a matter of pressure. Yes Napoli did very well to close down Villareal's players and pressure them into errors and force them into passing only around the edge of the box. But where was Villareal's 'plan b' (in fact you could almost say where was their 'plan a') ? They just seemed to want to play short balls around the centre. Why didn't they try to go down the flanks a bit more, why didn't they go long a bit more? Actually the thing is, Aronica got a yellow card very early in the game, after around 5 mins, but Villareal never really tested him. Aronica on a yellow card with players running at him, being dragged out of position, or trying to win stuff in the air, he could have got a second yellow card and this would have swung the game in their favour, but they never even tried to attack him.

(like say napoli and barcelona) napoli is definitely a better team than vilareal, but they're both midclass teams and the gap between them is not as wide as u're implying (by saying serie c clubs would be more serious opponents). we're talking about a team wich is facing a transition (pretty much like palermo)... a team wich is struggling, but which does not belong to a different class than napoli.

It's a matter of opinion and hard to quantify but I think they are in a different class, I would say that Napoli is nearer to the big teams (the Man Utds, Bayerns, Real Madrids) than Villareal is to Napoli.

bottom line, implying serie a is a much better league than la liga, just because of the current situation of vilareal and napoli (wich i believe was the subtext in your posts) is not appropriate imo.

Well it's hard to compare the leagues, and in this instance I was just pointing out the gulf in class between Villareal and Napoli (and to a lesser extent Bayern). Maybe it indicates a weakness in the league, maybe not, it definately indicates a weakness of Villareal, that is totally beyond question given their 4 European matches so far. Superficially if Villareal finished 4th and Napoli finished 3rd then you would expect matches between them to be even. And don't forget Napoli was also in a battle with Udinese and Lazio for that 3rd place, it was not certain of 3rd until the last few matches. But when you compare leagues you need to look at more than just one team. For instance in la Liga you have Real Madrid and Barcelona (who would probably beat most teams in Serie A) and also teams like Saragossa (who might lose to most teams in Serie A).

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

they didn't treat those 70 minutes as a training match at all. that's just not true. napoli were on full throttle for the first 40 minutes and then, once they were starting to run out of gas (since they already had a confortable lead) then went into "damage control mode" shifting the centre of gravity of the team 10 meters behind..... and if anything that makes it even more complicated for the opponent to try and produce some scoring chances.

To me it looked very much like a training match after about 20 or so minutes. Napoli were in total control, they knew Villareal posed minimal threat so Napoli just set a mental line halfway inside Villareal's defending half and contained them beyond this line. Occasionally Villareal would break through, and at times the line "slipped" into Napoli's half, but if you saw Mazzari he was always on the touchline pointing to where the line should be. If you watch the game again, you can see whenever a Villareal player crossed this hypothetical line Napoli would pressure them. So Villareal were contained in this fairly small section of the pitch for much of the game. Napoli could have gone on to score some more goals if they had the intention, but tactically they didn't need to risk opening the game up. It's actually a very sophisticated approach to the match from Mazzari, it's almost the perfect game - score two goals very early and then play a containment match for the rest of the game. Often if you watch training sessions you can see teams defending hypothetical lines like this. Coaches will instruct their teams to do this for 60 mins or more of a training session. They will literally say, "Forget about scoring, just contain the other players in this section of the pitch".

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

boy do i enjoy talking with u edmundo! although we happen to disagree quite often, i always enjoy to read your point of views (probably precisely because you're a smart guy and your point of views often differ from mines).

But it's not just a matter of pressure. Yes Napoli did very well to close down Villareal's players and pressure them into errors and force them into passing only around the edge of the box. But where was Villareal's 'plan b' (in fact you could almost say where was their 'plan a') ? They just seemed to want to play short balls around the centre. Why didn't they try to go down the flanks a bit more, why didn't they go long a bit more? Actually the thing is, Aronica got a yellow card very early in the game, after around 5 mins, but Villareal never really tested him. Aronica on a yellow card with players running at him, being dragged out of position, or trying to win stuff in the air, he could have got a second yellow card and this would have swung the game in their favour, but they never even tried to attack him.

those are very good points indeed. they should have challenged aronica much more (especially after the yellow card). as for the long balls, that's just not the spanish way. it's a cultural thing... they just can't play football without builduing up plays down on the ground.
however i'm not sure long balls would have helped that much. villareal's forwards aren't really aerial threats and campagnaro and cannavaro are very tough to beat on long balls.

Well it's hard to compare the leagues, and in this instance I was just pointing out the gulf in class between Villareal and Napoli (and to a lesser extent Bayern). Maybe it indicates a weakness in the league, maybe not, it definately indicates a weakness of Villareal, that is totally beyond question given their 4 European matches so far. Superficially if Villareal finished 4th and Napoli finished 3rd then you would expect matches between them to be even.

not necessarily. although domestic league placements are the closest thing to a valid instrumento to really rate teams... they're not always reliable.
quick example: napoli finished last season in serie a in 3rd place with 70 points. palermo finished their season in 8th place with 56 points. that's a 5 positions and 14 points gap (wich is, by all means, a huge gap). now let me ask u guys... is there anyone in this thread who followed napoli and palermo last season and who could say that last season napoli was a better team than palermo? mind u i'm not asking u if napoli did better than palermo (that's obvious) i'm talking about the teams. did napoli have a better team than palermo last season?
if there's even just one of u guys (assuming u actually followed napoli and palermo enough to have an opinion on their teams) who thinks napoli had a better team, then i will admit that we should expect a napoli-vilareal match to be less one-sided than it was.

one last thing edmundo. keep in mind that there are some objective differences between napoli and villareal. napoli is the third biggest city in italy (with a 1 million people population), they have a huge fanbase, not only in italy but also in usa and they have incomes for about 60 millions per year.
villareal instead is just a small village (50 thousands people population)... even if la liga had a collective tv rights deal (and therefore, if villareal had those 20\30 millions more per year), they still couldn't match a club like napoli financially.
villareal is more of a small club who performs as a midclass club (like palermo or udinese).
so we shouldn't be disappointed in their current "decline" (like i said theese transitional periods are normal for midclass clubs)..... we should actually be amazed that a club with such small resources managed to build such beautiful teams and to compete on the biggest stages.

as for your point about napoli being closer to the big teams like man utd than to a club like vilareal, your right, it's a subjective matter and i guess we'll just have to disagree on that.

But when you compare leagues you need to look at more than just one team. For instance in la Liga you have Real Madrid and Barcelona (who would probably beat most teams in Serie A) and also teams like Saragossa (who might lose to most teams in Serie A).

indeed. good point.

To me it looked very much like a training match after about 20 or so minutes. Napoli were in total control, they knew Villareal posed minimal threat so Napoli just set a mental line halfway inside Villareal's defending half and contained them beyond this line. Occasionally Villareal would break through, and at times the line "slipped" into Napoli's half, but if you saw Mazzari he was always on the touchline pointing to where the line should be. If you watch the game again, you can see whenever a Villareal player crossed this hypothetical line Napoli would pressure them. So Villareal were contained in this fairly small section of the pitch for much of the game. Napoli could have gone on to score some more goals if they had the intention, but tactically they didn't need to risk opening the game up. It's actually a very sophisticated approach to the match from Mazzari, it's almost the perfect game - score two goals very early and then play a containment match for the rest of the game. Often if you watch training sessions you can see teams defending hypothetical lines like this. Coaches will instruct their teams to do this for 60 mins or more of a training session. They will literally say, "Forget about scoring, just contain the other players in this section of the pitch".

that's absolutely correct. but u see, what u described here is not an easy "practice-like" performance.... this is a textbook performance (like u said they were perfect both in tactics and execution)... and that it's not something easy to achieve. it takes huge focus and discipline... and i can tell u that was not an average performance from napoli (never mind a training session)... if napoli were always this good, they would be scudetto AND champions league contenders.... and i don't think they are.
i'm not saying that was the best performance ever from napoli (they do play like this quite often indeed), but they were certainly 100% focused and committed for the whole game and that was not a training session for them (although they made it look like a piece of cake).

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I do not want to interfere in the discussion between Ben and Edmundo, but to be fair, Villareal are playing worryingly bad in La Liga too...i agree that Cazorla is not Messi, but it seems that they miss him terribly...if they continue to play like that in la Liga, they could even face relegation IMO...i've seen quite a few Liga matches (although not entire matches) and IMO Villareal are at the moment among the weakest teams in la Liga. And yesterday i listened to Syd Lowe on the Football Weekly podcast, he also said Villareal are worryingly weak...i think there really is something wrong with that club right at the moment.

I hope things get better for them, because it's a team i really like...last year they played some stunning football and in Giuseppe Rossi they have potentially one of the best FW's in Europe.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

those are very good points indeed. they should have challenged aronica much more (especially after the yellow card). as for the long balls, that's just not the spanish way. it's a cultural thing... they just can't play football without builduing up plays down on the ground.
however i'm not sure long balls would have helped that much. villareal's forwards aren't really aerial threats and campagnaro and cannavaro are very tough to beat on long balls.

Yes, I agree currently it's not the Spanish mentality, and certainly Villareal havent played this way at all for decades. But there is no option to try and change this, for instance Valencia a few years ago had Zigic, not a great player but one with a physcial dimension who could provide a plan b. I few times I remember Zigic coming on for David Villa (a much better player than Zigic) in games against Espanyol and actually he let Valencia alter their style and they won both games (this was about 2 years ago). Llorente at Bilbao again, is a good, but probably not quite world class striker, but his height means he can provide other options for the Basques. He is actually a talented player with his feet too, but his size means he can win a lot of high balls. Betis have Molina and Santa Cruz, and in fact Espanyol have turned back to Walter Pandiani to give them this physical option. Llorente provides this option for Spain too, they were struggling away in Scotland but he came on and his presence turned the game back to them. The trouble for Villareal is they do not have any physical players who can provide this option in the front line.

one last thing edmundo. keep in mind that there are some objective differences between napoli and villareal. napoli is the third biggest city in italy (with a 1 million people population), they have a huge fanbase, not only in italy but also in usa and they have incomes for about 60 millions per year.
villareal instead is just a small village (50 thousands people population)... even if la liga had a collective tv rights deal (and therefore, if villareal had those 20\30 millions more per year), they still couldn't match a club like napoli financially.

That's true, but to mitigate it there are some factors which don't rank in Napoli's favour financially. Naples is the third largest city in Itay (and also one of the finest ones to visit) but sadly, economically it struggles. A lot of the big industry, like the shipping and docks, is in decline and often it is hard for locals to get a job, especially a well (or medium) paying job. A lot of the factories and the tertiary industries (like office-jobs, sales, support etc) in Italy are in the north, places like Milan, Turin, to a lesser extent Genova. Also despite Napoli being, along with Rome, the cradle of anchient Italian culture and learning (some of the finest historical museums outside of Rome are in Naples), it never really developed the "business" of University in the way that the Sapienza in Rome, UNIBO in Bologna, Florence, or the big Medical Univeristy in Padova. In terms of population it's the 3rd biggest city but in terms of economy it's not as big. The cost of a €30 euro ticket might not be much for a fan of the Milan clubs or say a Lazio fan, but for an average Neapolitan it is a significant cost. If you take the inhabitants of Chicago, some guy living in out in Westchester can afford to spend money going to restuarants once a week, but someone from Cabrini-Green simply couldnt afford it. They do have some fan base in the USA, but the bulk of their support is from Naples and the surrounding areas of Campania. They don't have the masses of support in Asia that the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Milan etc have, and their support isn't as spread out within Italy as the Juventus or Inter fan bases. For instance at a Juve or Inter game, you'll see supporter club banners from all over Italy, near towns like Bergamo through to far towns like Rome or Ancona. Napoli's fans largly come from the area around the city, and these are some of the hardest areas in Italy in terms of disposable income.

You're right to say Villareal's town is small and they don't generate as much revenue as Napoli currently. But to counteract that they have been a stable club for more of the last 10-15 years than Napoli. I think (and I'm not 100% sure of this) they own their own stadium, so they don't lose a lot of the matchday income Italian clubs do through non-ownership. They have also been in the top Spanish league for over a decade and have been in the Champions league group stage quite a few times over the last 5 years. This gives them a significant level of income the Napoli simply havent had - dont forget Napoli was in crisis 10 years ago, almost totally crushed by debt and in Serie C - with very little external revenue. I agree that in the last say 2-3 years Napoli is stronger than Villareal financially, but don't forget they had to come a long way to get to this position.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I do not want to interfere in the discussion between Ben and Edmundo, but to be fair, Villareal are playing worryingly bad in La Liga too..

Gerd that's not a private chat, that's a forum and this discussion is open to anyone who has an opinion... infact i wanna encourage everyone else in here to step in and express their views.
i know my longests posts can often be kinda intimidating (and boring to get through), but that's just because i'm not a native english speaker and it takes me 50 words to express a thought that a fluent english speaker could express in a single sentence.
i know my posts can sound appalling and "pompous", and believe me, i actually try to keep them as brief as i can (although it doesn't look so).

as for your point, yeah vilareal are facing some rough times recently, but i don't think that should be worrying as that's normal for a midclass club. all midlcass clubs usually base their strategies on 5 years cycles. the basic idea is to try and build a competitive team, scouting for underpriced quality players and promising youngsters (and by working on your academy).... then, once the team reaches its peak, u cash out, sell your best assets and then start over.
midlcass clubs can't afford to hold great players for long, because, once your youngsters grow up, prove their talent and become "the next best thing" they will be looking for bigger stages (and wages).
palermo right now are facing this transitional phase..... and as much as i hate zamparini right now, i also know that in 3 years time (wheter zamparini will be our president or not) palermo will be exactly where napoli is right now (while napoli will be where palermo is right now). that's how it goes for most midclass clubs.

That's true, but to mitigate it there are some factors which don't rank in Napoli's favour financially. Naples is the third largest city in Itay (and also one of the finest ones to visit) but sadly, economically it struggles....
....They don't have the masses of support in Asia that the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Milan etc have, and their support isn't as spread out within Italy as the Juventus or Inter fan bases. For instance at a Juve or Inter game, you'll see supporter club banners from all over Italy, near towns like Bergamo through to far towns like Rome or Ancona. Napoli's fans largly come from the area around the city, and these are some of the hardest areas in Italy in terms of disposable income.

what u're saying here is 100% spot on, but u see, napoli will always have an advantage when it comes to marketing related and matchday incomes.
just like u said, the top teams like milan, inter and juve have a much bigger fanbase and a much more spread-out fanbase (there are indeed several inter, milan and juve fans in sicily, but u'll hardly find a napoli fan)...
but from a marketing point of view, a single napoli fan is worth more than 5 juve fans. let me make a practical example. juventus is the club with the biggest fanbase in italy (and also one of the biggest in europe).... and yet their stadium attendance data are are horrible if compared to napoli's attendance data. the average juve fan won't buy a ticket for the game as soon as the team doesn't deliver for 2 months....... whereas napoli filled its 60 thousands seats stadium even when they were playing in serie c. so even though campania's gdp is way lower than piemonte's gdp, and even though the income of an average napoli fan is probably lower than the income of an average juve fan, the napoli fan will still be more likely to invest his money on the club (buying seasonal seasonal tickets or scarves or whatever).

You're right to say Villareal's town is small and they don't generate as much revenue as Napoli currently. But to counteract that they have been a stable club for more of the last 10-15 years than Napoli. I think (and I'm not 100% sure of this) they own their own stadium, so they don't lose a lot of the matchday income Italian clubs do through non-ownership. They have also been in the top Spanish league for over a decade and have been in the Champions league group stage quite a few times over the last 5 years. This gives them a significant level of income the Napoli simply havent had - dont forget Napoli was in crisis 10 years ago, almost totally crushed by debt and in Serie C - with very little external revenue. I agree that in the last say 2-3 years Napoli is stronger than Villareal financially, but don't forget they had to come a long way to get to this position.

that's absolutely true.... and actually it kinda explains the current condition of both clubs. while vilareal have been "on their peak" for a long time already, and are already facing the declining phase of their cycle, napoli are just into the 4th year of their cycle. that means napoli is right now in its peak, and they will probably be able to hold this position for about 1, 2, 3 years tops.
as for the madrigal stadium, i'm afraid vilareal don't own the stadium. it belongs to the city coucil (so they're pretty much in the same situation of most of italian clubs).

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

What a miss by Zúñiga! Napoli are turning the screw against Inter at the San Siro, very impressive performance.

 

[Interista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

The ref ruined the game in the first half.. First a non-existent yellow card for Obi and then that penalty that was outside the box (couldn't the lineman see it?) which got him sent off.

Apart from that I expected Inter to atleast fight and show some discipline in defense.. The defense was a disaster yet again.. Such amateur mistakes were done for the 2nd and 3rd goal. Nagatomo has no positioning sense at all, I get Lucio going forward when we were losing but in the first half at 0-0 he kept going forward and I hate it when he does that, I wish atleast he does something productive, all he does is run and run and either lose it or a short pass.

This is going a to be a really tough season.

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

To be fair, I thought Inter were play much better before the sending off and penalty. Inter were motivated, confident and very direct, which was tearing holes in Napoli's defence. The referee definitely ruined the game and damaged Inter's game.

 

[Interista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Yeah most definitely, before the sending off we were playing really well, probably the best I've seen this season, it's just the reaction and giving up attitude in the second half thats bugging me.

 

[bebo]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

agreed Inter were making waves, harsh call from the ref! Napoli on the under hand kept doing what comes naturally!

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

To be fair, I thought Inter were play much better before the sending off and penalty. Inter were motivated, confident and very direct, which was tearing holes in Napoli's defence. The referee definitely ruined the game and damaged Inter's game.

Completely agree with the penalty. I think the sending off (i.e. both yellow cards) was justified. But the penalty made a big difference. At the time Napoli where already the better team for a couple of minutes after a very good start.

Until the goal i was pretty disappointed with Napoli. I had seen them 3 times this season and they were nowhere near as good as the other matches i watched.

Inter were hard done by the ref, but they reacted most unprofessionally (Julio Cesar should have been sent off just before half-time, i think then and there the ref realized his mistake).

Napoli were very good in the second half.

I'm tempted to say that yesterday's result is a good thing for Serie A .