Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

I think Rafa can potentially be a good signing. He has a strong base to work from, and has bags of experience. This Napoli team has reached a point of maturity in players like Hamsik, Pandev and Inler - but like Mourinho's Inter, there could be a huge dip as Mazzarri uses intensity to drive his teams, where as Benitez less so.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

I think with Mazzarri hired, the management will probably just cancel whatever "project" they were trying to do and go on a spending spree like the good old days. Might explain why Moratti is looking for investors. :D
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

amazing 2nd half , glad Lazio won cup and will be on EL next season , so glad for Cana and Tare :)
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

it was a very good match ! I love seeing Totti he makes me feel young again. :P
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

oh crap, i completely forgot the coppa italia final.

so mazzarri to inter... weird. i was certain mazzarri was going to sign up for roma. who knows, perhaps he might actually turn out the nerazzurri into a team! it's gonna be interesting to see what happens in milano over the next few weeks.
they have the coach, now they just need to find a new team director...... and a new medical staff..... and of course a bunch of good players :P

on a different topic.... jovetic to juventus?!?! WTF! why would they spend all those money on jovetic, when they already have the likes of vucinic, giovinco and quagliarella? that's mental. why don't they use those money (plus the money they already planned to spend for a cf) to make a serious offer for cavani?
i really can't understand this.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

As much as I love Vucinic, Giovinco and Quagliarella, I think Jovetic has showed consistency over 3 years.

It always looks like Giovinco is trying too hard at Juve, and Juve tried hard to turn him into the 'Del Piero' of the attack, but it hasn't worked out as well as they wanted. Vucinic was a bit absent in some key games, and it looks like those key games are what Juve want to be good at, especially in Europe.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

How about LLorente? He did sign for Juventus didn't he? Him and Seba might turnout to be a good combination....
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

Milanista said:
As much as I love Vucinic, Giovinco and Quagliarella, I think Jovetic has showed consistency over 3 years.

It always looks like Giovinco is trying too hard at Juve, and Juve tried hard to turn him into the 'Del Piero' of the attack, but it hasn't worked out as well as they wanted. Vucinic was a bit absent in some key games, and it looks like those key games are what Juve want to be good at, especially in Europe.
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yeah, giovinco isn't developing into the world class player many people thought he would become.... but then again, for a backup he's fantastic (i can't think of many top european club with such a terrific assistman sitting on the bench, ready to come in whenever required).
as for vucinic, i haven't watched juve very much this season (to be fair i haven't watched much of any team this season), but whenever i watched them, vucinic was amazing.

jovetic is a fantastic player, but i don't think he's more consistant than vucinic. i remember earlier this season, jovetic was being booed by fiorentina fans for showing very little effort in his game.
sconcerti said something quite interesting on tv about those 2 guys a few months ago. he said there's something peculiar about montenegrini... they have a strange allure on the pitch; they look careless even when they're focused.. they look like they're strolling like balotelli, even when they're actually running at full pace. there's something about them that makes their game look effortless, even when they're 100% commited and motivated.... and that particular something often leads fans to mistake their cool (but at the same time intense) approach for carelessness, for "being absent".

anyway i'm a huge fan of both of em... some might prefere jovetic, some might prefere vucinic, that's not the real point imo.
my point is, having a world class starter like vucinic and 2 great backups in giovinco and quagliarella means u're very well covered in the supporting striker position. so that's definitely NOT where u wanna spend most of your money!
since your main vulnerability is the cf position, instead of spending 25 millions on jovetic and other 25 on higuain, take all those 50 millions and go "all in" for cavani!!!
i love higuain, he's a great player and i also think he would suit juventus football wonderfully (much better than llorente at least)... but if u can go for cavani, then it's not even a choice!
that's how i see it at least.
it would be interesting to hear what juven fans think about this jovetic move.
amineken said:
How about LLorente? He did sign for Juventus didn't he? Him and Seba might turnout to be a good combination....
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very nice player, but i'm not so sure he fits well in juventus, considering the type of football they play. sure it was a good move to sign him as he provides juve with a differnt option upfront, a different offensive outlet (i'm not gonna say a "plan b" coz that's a stupid expression, wich has no real meaning in football and is only significant in "football videogames" world), but is he the man to lead juventus offence? i don't know..... what i do know is that if i were juventus team director and i got 50 millions to spend on the market, i wouldn't have a second of hesitation; i'd book the first flight for napoli, knock on de laurentis door and asked him to hand cavani over! :P
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

Completely agree with what you write about Llorente and Juventus.
Both Higuain and Cavani are better suited to Juventus.

And if it's true what you say about Juventus (i haven't seen them very often), then would Giovinco be better off to play for another club...i stil lthink he has it in him to become a very, very good player, but perhaps not with a big club...
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

I think Giovinco is being wasted at Juve. He's too talented, and would be a shame if he becomes one of those players "that could have been...", a bit like Miccoli at some points of his career.

But yep, if I had 50m and my weakness was attack, Cavani would be guaranteed 20 goals +. Although I think ADL doesn't want to sell within Italy.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

Zio, according to ESPN Cavani's price tag is higher than 50 mln, he has a €63 million release clause. Take in mind Bale is going to be valued 70 mln so Cavani's price tag is totally justified (it's IMO even too low since I rate him as the best striker around).
Also take in mind, as Milanista hinted, Napoli is going to sell him to City (in exchange for Dzeko + money) or Chelsea (in exchange for Torres + money) to fastly find a good replacement.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

yep, u guys are right, when u're selling your best asset, u don't really wanna sell it to your domestic competitors... then again, there are also other factors to consider.
first of there's not much of a market for a player like cavani. only a handful of clubs can afford him, and not all of them are looking for a striker right now; man utd, psg and monaco certainly don't need another world class striker... arsenal, spurs, liverpool (and probably bayern too) can't afford him.... that leaves us with a market of 5 clubs; chelsea, city, barça, real and juve. 5 potential buyers are just not enough to allow de laurentis to be picky and dismiss any offer only coz it comes from an italian club.

besides, juve also has another advantage over foreign clubs; they might throw in the deal some players to decrease the cash offer. of course also a foreign club could do that (infact i'm sure whoever buys cavani will offer a player aswell), but when it comes to offering players, juve has an advantage over any foreign competitor; not only because they can offer players who already know serie a, but most of all because they can offer players with reasonable salaries, whereas english and spanish top clubs usually give world-class-like salaries even to unproven youngsters, making those players less appealing for a clever club owner (such as de laurentis).
baxter said:
Zio, according to ESPN Cavani's price tag is higher than 50 mln, he has a €63 million release clause. Take in mind Bale is going to be valued 70 mln so Cavani's price tag is totally justified
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there's not even any need to look for a pricetag justification, when it comes to football players, mate. any pricetag is right, as long as there's someone out there willing to pay it. if there's someone out there stupid enough to burn 70 millions on bale then that will be the right price. on the contrary, if no club will be willing to spend 63 millions euros on cavani, then that will mean that is not the "right price". the fact that cavani should be worth twice whatever price is payed for bale is irrelevant, because players' pricetags are determined by the market, not by the player's actual ability and value.
and a market is only as rationale as the businessmen who operate in it. football is the most irrational, craziest market u can find, because most of those who operate in that market are among the stupidest businessmen on the planet (i'm talking about club owners of course).
therefore, don't even try to look for any logic or justification... it's just a waste of time. whatever price is payed for a player, that is the right price (no matter how crazy that is :D ).

as for the release clause, u must keep in mind a release clause is never an actual pricetag. it's more like the opening price of a dutch auction. an example might be of help here:
let's say u have elvis' guitar and u wanna sell it on ebay (crazy, i know, but ebay offers the perfect example of release clause, so follow me for the sake of the explanation :P ).
u'd like to sell it for 2 millions, u expect to sell it for 1.5 millions, but in any case u won't go for anything less than 1 million.
before the auction begins u set up a "buy it now" price (wich is a release clause). now, based on those figures i mentioned above, how much should be your buy it now price? should it be as much as your "target-price" (1.5M)? no way! the right price for the release clause is your "best-case-scenario price" (2M).
because, u see, by setting up a release clause, u're basically accepting the idea of giving up any negotiation at all. if someone will match that proposal, then u'll have no say at all, u will just have to accept that offer. so the right price for a release clause is the highest prossible price for that particular item.... your "dream-price", not your "target-price".

of course also the buyers know that, so they will never match that proposal and pay the release clause. instead they will start negotiating with u, to see how much lower than the release clause u're willing to go.

so when de laurentis sets up a release clause of 63 millions for cavani, what he's actually saying is "ok my first proposal is 63 millions, but i might be willing to accept 55, 50, perhaps 45 millions (wich is de laurentis' actual target-price)... now gentlemen, make your counter-offers".
and that's why i believe cavani's current pricetag is roughly around 50M. :))
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

Lecce - Entella 2-1 , first match 1-1

really great match , I enjoyed it yesterday , it was so interesting and goal from Chevanton was just great

I really hope Lecce win this play off's and go to Serie b

btw. lo zio Miccoli was on stadium yesterday , now that Palermo its on Serie b and if Lecce make it to Serie b too is there a chance he plays for Lecce ? :D
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

Lo Zio, you seem to know a lot about the way football works in Italy. I was wondering if you could explain what the owning 50% of a player with another club is about and how it works if say they sell that player on to a third club in another country?
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

LFC Albania said:
btw. lo zio Miccoli was on stadium yesterday , now that Palermo its on Serie b and if Lecce make it to Serie b too is there a chance he plays for Lecce ? :D
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yeah that is definitely a possibility. miccoli always said he wanted to end his carreer at either palermo or lecce, so i could certainly see this happening now.
not because we're in serie b though (miccoli already made it clear that playing in serie b is not a problem for him and he wouldn't even mind a salary cut), but because zamparini is desperately trying to get rid of him and his contract is about to expire.
Taylor_94 said:
Lo Zio, you seem to know a lot about the way football works in Italy. I was wondering if you could explain what the owning 50% of a player with another club is about....
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co-ownership can be a very useful expedient to move players and share between 2 clubs the risks that come with a player transfer. more often than not buying or selling half of a player can be a preferable alternative to loaning.

the most talented youngsters often happen to be very expensive, as they're valued by their potential, rather than their actual current ability. therefore signing a youngster can be a huge risk; if the lad lives up to his reputation and develops into a great player, then u got yourself a bargain... otherwise, u'll end up having spent more money than the player's actual worth. and of course if the youngster comes form a different country, that's another risk-factor to consider.
so, in order to share the risks and mitigate the possible loss, 2 clubs agree to buy a single player together. that's what genoa and milan did with boateng. boateng never even wore a genoa shirt... and he was never supposed to. milan were worried boateng couldn't adapt and they didn't wanna commit themselves (financially) too much on such a risky investment. so they proposed genoa to buy the player together. genoa payed half boateng pricetag and the player moved to milan. one season after, boateng proved to be a very good player, who had no adaptation problems whatsoever, so milan and genoa renegotiated their deal; milan bought genoa's 50% of the player and, since the player proved himself greatly during that season, the rossoneri payed genoa twice the money genoa spent one year before.
end of the story; genoa made a pretty substantial capital gain in 1 single season (without moving a finger) while milan protected themselves against a potential bad investment...and even though they ended up paying genoa quite a lot, they certainly didn't mind, as the player proved to be a good asset to the team.

sometimes instead a co-ownership deal can be a good expedient to allow a youngster to grow in experience.
giovinco struggled to get some decent playtime in his first season as a first squad player. so in 2010 juve stroke a deal with parma. juve wanted to loan the player but parma weren't happy with the offer. "what's in it for us?" they asked. "why should we develop your player for free and give him playtime at our club, only to see moving back to torino in 1 or 2 seasons? we have our own youngsters to develop and they could certainly use a spot in our first squad to improve.... so why should we give that spot to a player we don't own?"
so they eventually signed a different deal with juve; a 1 year loan with an option to buy the 50% of giovinco for 3 millions after 1 season. giovinco moved to parma and made an instant impact. he did great that season and got a chance to improve and get that playtime and experience he could have never gotten at juve. once the season ended parma exercised their option and bought 50% of giovinco for 3 millions (wich at that point was an amazing bargain). giovinco (wich was then not just a loaned player anymore but a co-owned player) remained at parma one more season and improved even more, eventually becoming "juventus material".
once his 2nd season at parma ended, juventus knocked on parma's door to bring the player back to torino and agreed to buy parma's 50% for 11 millions (more than 3 times what parma payed just one year before).
it was a perfect happy ending for everone involved: giovinco got a chance to get the playtime he needed to develop into a better player, parma got a chance to line up a high quality youngster for 2 seasons, spending only 3 millions... and eventually sold their 50% of giovinco for 11 millions (making it a 8 millions capital gain!); and as for juve they sent their talented youngster to a club with a history for nurturing talents and developing world class players, without risking to lose the player for good. sure they ended up paying 8 millions for "giovinco's internship at parma" (the 11 millions they eventually payed to parma, minus the 3 millions parma gave them the year before to buy 50% of giovinco), but it was worth it, as giovinco is worth at least twice that money now.

when it comes to sending youngsters to lesser clubs, a co-onweship deal is often preferable to a simple loan. a loan is for free (once the loan expires the player simply moves back home) but it doesn really motivate the other club to develop the youngster and give him playtime.
by closing a co-ownership deal instead u're giving the lesser club a very good reason to develop the youngster and not leave him on the bench (because if that youngster will improve during his spell at the lesser club, then the lesser club will get more money, once the big club decides to bring the kid back home).

theese 2 examples give u an idea of why co-ownership deals became so common in italy. as for your other question...
....and how it works if say they sell that player on to a third club in another country?
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a co-owned player can't be sold to a third club. first the co-onwership must end, and only after that the player can be sold to a third party. that's what usually happens in theese cases.
let's say palermo and roma own 50% each of a player and milan wants to buy that player. milan will approach one of the 2 clubs (say, palermo) and tell them "we'd like to buy that player, how much would u ask for him?" at this point palermo will consider how much it would probably cost to buy roma's 50% of that player and then present milan with a proposal (as if the player were 100% owned by palermo).
if milan and palermo agree, then palermo will negotiate with roma and buy their 50%, and then sell the 100% of the player to milan for the ammount previously agreed. if the third club is a foreign one, there's no difference, as the procedure is usually the same.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

Rudi Garcia is Roma's new coach, pretty excited about this one. I like the guy and the footballing directions he takes with his teams and love how he always gives the chance to the home grown talent. If the management and players trust him enough to follow his plans, Roma might end up as a title contender this year...
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

Disappointed in the treatment by our board to Ambrosini. He's always given 100% and his heart to the club, since 1995. Then they treat him with a lack of respect.

Grazie capitano!
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

Gennaro Gattuso is appointed as Palermo's new manager. :LOL:

so how long will he last there? I say, 5 months max.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

Kanouté said:
Gennaro Gattuso is appointed as Palermo's new manager. :LOL:

so how long will he last there? I say, 5 months max.
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5 months? a guy like gattuso working for a lunatic with temper like zamparini?....


make it 5 weeks. tops!
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

disgusting stuff indeed. one often can't choose his friends, but insulting a national hero like Giovanni Falcone is absolutely sickening. miccoli's carreer in palermo is officialy over. if i were him, i wouldn't even set foot in palermo anymore.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

Un gruppo di tifosi giovedì deporrà una maglia rosanero davanti all'albero Falcone. Gli organizzatori: "Presidenti, calciatori e capitani passano, la maglia no. La nostra passione si coniuga col rispetto e la gratitudine verso chi è morto per noi"
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The Palermo fans responded to Miccoli. They apparently will write a message on a Palermo top and leave it on the Falcone memorial saying "Presidents, players and captains come and go, but the shirt always stays the same. Our passion combines respect and gratitude to those who died for us."

*rough translation
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

Milanista said:
Anyway, sad to see the Giallorossi lose.


By Giallorossi, I meant Watford :D
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We are linked to Udinese Milanista not Roma ! :P The Zebrette.

Is it true Udinese are not implicated in this investigation that is being undertaken into the tax affairs of various clubs in serie A/B ?
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2012/13 Season

lo zio said:
disgusting stuff indeed. one often can't choose his friends, but insulting a national hero like Giovanni Falcone is absolutely sickening. miccoli's carreer in palermo is officialy over. if i were him, i wouldn't even set foot in palermo anymore.
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Indeed. He had real courage in taking on the Mafia.
 
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