Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

Well said. I have to fully agree with this.

Our midfield purchaces in Tiago and Almiron seem afraid to take the initiative and are just bystanders. Very dissapointing. Our defensive problems have always been evident and now our midfield weaknesses are becoming evident as well. I also think we lack quite some spark and explosiveness upfront. At the moment we are quite reliant on Trez and Camo, while Trezeguet relies on quality service from Camoranesi, who is now probably out for two months.

I'm sure we'll improve as the season goes on, but it will be too late and we simply do not have the quality to match the other big three.

well, i guess we already knew juventus couldn't fight for the scudetto this year. juve is facing a transition period which will last the whole year. this year juventus target is becoming a team... next year, with some good buy, the situation will be different. u still have to be patient, guys

talking about this season, i'd say the 4th place is reachable. Fiorentina is the 4th club in serie a at the moment (with toni they could fight for the title) but they'll have to play the uefa cup too, wich will waste a lot of energy (according to prandelli words, they won't snub the uefa cup.....unlike palermo :roll: ).
so if fiorentina won't go out early in the uefa cup, the 4th place in serie a is a reasonable target for juventus.

I just can't understand Milan's attitude towards the Serie A title, they have the ability to run away with the title, though yet again they seem to be completely betting on the CL title.

yep. actually that's milan's attitude. Berlusconi and Galliani are very attracted by CL appeal.
but this season, aiming for the champions league looks like a "forced choice" for milan. Milan has quality, has one of the greatest and most experienced starting 11 in europe. But to win the scudetto u need:
- a deep roster, with many good backups. clearely milan hasn't it.

u need a great goalscorer, because while playing against big teams (like inter, roma, lazio, juve, fiorentina, sampdoria, palermo, udinese...) milan can get a result by playing his nice silky football, when milan will face little clubs (like siena, catania, reggina, parma, livorno...) they won't be allowed to play "milan style" football. those teams will just protect their box, by filling the midfield with 5 midfielders, destroying milan's football.
so when u face theese teams, u need a real striker, somebody who can scare the opponent's coach, pushing him to place 2 defenders over the foward for the whole match (and creating spaces for your midfielders).
now, milan has some midfielders who can take advatage of the space granted by a great scorer (seedorf, ambrosini, kakà).... but they need the scorer.
they have inzaghi, of course, who is among the 4 most deadly fowards in europe (togheter with toni, eto'o and van nistelrooy)..... but inzaghi is 34.... he can't play 2 matches per week (CL and serie a).... he can't even play one match per week. So milan can't rely on inzaghi for the scudetto. talking about the others milan scorers, well...
gilardino is having the most impressive involution i ever witnessed in serie a (togheter with adriano), and milan fans sure aren't helping him regaining his confidence, by booeing him each time he makes a mistake.
Ronaldo; it's nice to see how fit he is now.. he lost 8 kilos and he looks really great! moerover last season he showed he still can be a crack....... but his knees are more fragile than a swarosky crystal, so he too can't be a reliable striker for the scudetto race.
Pato; well, he won't be able to play till jannuary, so...

So, even if milan is a great team, is chances to win the scudetto are slighter than inter's or roma's chances. Of course this doesn't mean they won't try to win the title. of course this doesn't mean they won't be able to win the title, in the end.
it just means that it won't be easy at all. of course galliani and ancelotti already realized it, and that's why their first (and more easily reachable) target is the champions league.

It's not about ranking different leagues. It's not about the tactical aspects, quality of players etc. It's about the entertainment each league provides, and for me Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga, EPL and Ligue 1 all are equally entertaining

 

[AndreaSpooky]

Re: Serie A Thread

Thanks for the reply mate. How good a passer do you think Perotta is? Would you say he is good/better than Mauri of Roma's eternal rivals? Who's passing skills would you compare his to? I have him pegged as as good as a passer of the ball as between Donadel and Montolivo. I.E. In Pes i have his Short Pass Stats at 82/83 and his Long Pass Stats at 79/75. Also do you think he is more of a killer-ball player or playmaker? Perrotta's playing style is difficult to grasp, which is why he is so talented . But i think I have his pass stats right. Sorry for going slightly off topic, but i am trying to create a perfect Roma, Palermo and Fiorentina on my game

EDIT: Can't wait until Roma-Juve next week!!

i started reading this thread today, appreaciating it.
id like to share some stat about these players with you, coz id like to update pes here aswell.

especially, i have some problems evaluating certain players like :
Perrotta, De Rossi, Juan (yeah, im romanista, lol).
i think these players (as many others) are understimated in their stats.
how are u modifying them?

tnx in advance.

in answer to these Milan's question :
its owner wants the teams known as the most famous and prized in the world.
they reached this few days ago, winning the supercup, and now theyre leading by 1 prize over boca.
and this is what they wanna hold. fame.
so everything else stay behind: national championship and cup.
they usually keep to them just if theyre in the first places with no great efforts, so they can do the final streak winning in the end.
same can be told for Internazionale (at least for this year).
Maybe this could be good for other good team who want to win the championship, like mine

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

i started reading this thread today, appreaciating it.
id like to share some stat about these players with you, coz id like to update pes here aswell.

especially, i have some problems evaluating certain players like :
Perrotta, De Rossi, Juan (yeah, im romanista, lol).
i think these players (as many others) are understimated in their stats.
how are u modifying them?

tnx in advance.

What do you mean mate?

 

[AndreaSpooky]

Re: Serie A Thread

didnt mean how can i modify them, of course.
in 2 words : can u post some of their updated stats?

id like to share some of them, if possible.

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

didnt mean how can i modify them, of course.
in 2 words : can u post some of their updated stats?

id like to share some of them, if possible.

I probably won't post them, however we discuss them if you want

Ok then there are some potentially good matches in Serie A this weekend. Here are the fixtures :

Atalanta vs Lazio
Cagliari vs Palermo
Catania vs Fiorentina
Empoli vs Napoli
Livorno vs Inter
Milan vs Parma
Roma vs Juventus :applause:
Sampdoria vs Genoa
Torino vs Siena
Udinese vs Reggina

The mathces with symbols next to them are the ones I think to look out for I'll post my opinions a little later ;D

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread

Atalanta vs Lazio
Cagliari vs Palermo
Catania vs Fiorentina
Empoli vs Napoli
Livorno vs Inter
Milan vs Parma
Roma vs Juventus :applause:
Sampdoria vs Genoa
Torino vs Siena
Udinese vs Reggina

This is one I've been waiting yearrrrrrrrrs for. :8):

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

Sampdoria - Genoa's a derby isn't it? Could be good

Anywho, here are my views for the weekend. I think some truly wonderful football could be played this weekend, Atalanta - Lazio, Catania - Fiorentina and the Roma matches could be amazing. To be honest, I haven't seen enough, or not know enough about the Sampdoria - Genoa teams and rivalry to commment, but if Sina reckons that the match is going to be good, I sure believe him :8):

I think that Roma will beat Juve 2-0. The Roman defence is looking incredible, and against a Juve attack that looks horrifically blunt, Roma should have a fairly good match in defence. In Roma's attack is where the match should really come alive. The football they play is other-worldly on their day, and the way Roma played against Kiev, I would be very worried if I were Ranieri. In saying that, Juve could cause certain problems on the counter, but Juan reminds me of an older, brazilian Micah Richards - just with better positioning and tackling. He is so quick and strong that Del Piero could, and I think probably will, be completely nullified. Iaquinta may also find it tough, although if he drifts wide and then comes back in (like he does sometimes), he may have a little more success. All in all, the rivalry and competitiveness of both the teams, coupled with Roma's attack, and Juve's counter-attack this could be one amazing match

Elsewhere in the league, I think that Atalanta can pose some serious problems to Lazio - mainly because Lazio haven't been able to hit the heights of last season as of yet, although as a Roma fan I hope they don't, as a Serie A fan I hope that they do :lol:

Fiorentina and Catania could be an amazing match. Fiorentina have been so entertaining so recently, both in attack and defence :lmao: that this could be an absolute classic. I think if Catania counter in their best form, then this could be a candidate for one of the top ten matches in the season

I think the same can be said of Palermo and Cagliari, there is no doubt that that match is going to be terrific and produce goals and spectular, end-to end football - similar to Roma-Palermo The problem with Palermo is that they seem a little inconsistent, they thrashed a team a couple of weeks ago, yet they weren't at their best last week and in midweek - I just hope that they hit form on the weekend for a neutral's sake Still, this one could be another stunner.

All in all, this Serie A is looking fabulous - I just hope Roma - Juve isn't on at the same time as Man Utd - Chelsea

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

another very good post dutty nose :applause: it was a real pleasure to read your views

i'd say an introduction to "il derby della lanterna" is needed
genova's derby is probably the most fascinating derby in italy. the fans of both teams are famous for their passion, and there are many legends about the previous derbys.
it's also known as "the Lanterna's derby". the Lanterna is the lightouse of genova, the lanterna is som sort of a symbol in genova (genova was one of the 4 "Maritime Republics", from the 10th to the 13th centuries). today the lanterna is a nice little musuem and a UNESCO World Heritage Site (like almost everything in Genova ).

moving back to football, theese 2 teams don't face each others in serie a since 1994. last time they played genoa won 2-1 (Van’t Schip and Skuhravy for genoa; platt scored for samp). that season genoa went in serie b.... of course i read those things on the newspaper, as i didn't remember it :mrgreen:.

sampdoria has a new coach. novellino went to torino, but Mazzarri is a great coach too. last season he did something unbeliavable with reggina, one of the poorest teams in serie a who won an unbelieavable amount of matches, by playing a great football!!!!
that's what makes a coach a great coach; the ability to overachieve, to bring out the best in a team, no matter how good are his players, the ability to read the flow of the game and anticipate it.
nontheless, Mr. Mazzarri will have some problems this week end. Volpi, his playmaker, his metronome, the one who gives geometry and timing to samp's passing game, should be out for injury (and even if he would play, he wouldn't be in good shape at all). Bellucci and montella played just yesterday and they wil probably be pretty tired. cassano is still injured... and caracciolo..... well, caracciolo is caracciolo :lol:

but also genoa has his problems. Genoa's coach, mr. Gasperini is another great coach. he was probably the best coach in serie b last year (togheter with didì) and one of most fresh coaches in italy. it was a pleasure to watch his pure attacking football last season. One of the most entertaining teams in italy.

this season something changed. it's like gasperini is scared to play that crazy nice football in serie a. and i can understand it..... but that's the football genoa knows how to play. till now they tried to play a more careful football, with awful results. u can't ask a turtle to run, u can't ask a hare to go slow. everybody has to play his football to truly express his potential..........
but i've got the feeling gasperini realized it and i think we'll see again last season genoa, this week end (at least i hope).

moving on....
roma - juve. intersting match. juventus will be really determined and angry, after the udinese match. ranieri had an entire week to prepare this match, to set up the most appropriate countermeasures to stop roma gameplay. juve is missing many key players... camoreanesi will be out for more than 1 month, nocerino had a car accident this week (nothing bad happened and he seems ok, but i don't think he'll play), and now also almiron, juventus lightouse, is out. i'd really like to see a midfield line composed by zanetti and tiago, because this could be the perfect choice to disrupt roma's passing game (or at least to try to). Tiago was the most expensive juventus buy this summer, and i'm sure that if ranieri will give him some time he will show what a great player he is....
talking about roma, now everybody in europe is loving their gameplay. they're getting better each year and at the moment they're really on fire.
5 matches played, 5 wins, 10 goals scored, 0 goals conceded.... really impressive. but the most impressive thing is their football... the ball never stops for 90 minutes. last year roma had the best 20 minutes of football in europe.... this season they play that amazing football for almost the whole match... i'm saying almost of course, coz u can't expect them to play that way for 90 consecutives minutes. so they still have some "rest moments", and the key to beat them is following the flow of the game, trying to resist to roma's passing game (honestly when they start to play their best football, there's nothing u can do to get the ball), then, when they slow down the game putting pressure on them, taking advantage of their lack of oxygen.
that's what colantuono (palermo's coach) did against roma, and it almost worked :roll:

anyway roma isn't unbeatable.... and actually according to juve game system (or at least to what juve did till now) they could really be the toughest team to beat for roma.
roma players are getting inside the spalletti mentality, each year more than the previous. now they're almost perfect in attack (who am i kidding, they're more than perfect) but they're still careless in defense, sometimes. and i'm not talking about the defensive line (wich is great!), i'm talking about the defesive phase of the game, wich involves both defenders and midfielders.

look at this picture i just captured from utube:

that's the action that brought to the first goal. we all loved it , as that's what every football addict loves to see......
...but..
look at the midfielders position on the field. during the game we were excited by all those great short 1st touch passes (the short first touch pass is the most difficult exercize, it should be a basic for every player, but nowadays kids are more intersted in learning how to do flip-flaps)...
and for sure it was nice to see them showing their abilities. But i'm pretty sure that in that moment Spalletti was really angry... he was probably screaming like a mad "what tha hell 'r u doing, look at yoiur position on the pitch! look at your teamates position on the pitch! look at where the hell 'r u going!!! :mrgreen:
4 players in less than 10 squared meters..... such a sillly tactical mistake... just try to immagine what could happen if a dinamo player would have been able to intercept one of those short passes..... behind those 4 players ther are just the 2 cbs and doni, because cassetti is running toward the right corner of dinamo's midfield to receive a pass (and u can see him on the top of the pic), while tonetto is doing the same thing on the left (he will be the one who will receive the last pass from aquilani and cross the ball for perrotta).
they're just gifting the whole midfield to dinamo players, with that awful midfield line up.
so even if they really look unbeatable at the moment.... they aren't.
moreover we'll have to see who will play for roma. i mean mancini, taddei, perrotta, aquilani and cassetti need some rest so we could see esposito, giuly, pizarro and panucci taking their places. but many of theese players (pizarro and esposito especially) are far from being in a good physical shape.
they need to play to reach their best condition, but we can't expect too much from them at the moment (until they'll be in good shape again).
so that's another good news for juve.


talking about atalanta - lazio, this could be another intersting match, between 2 teams that still have to show what they're all about. atalanta wasn't that good lately, but still they managed to get some good results, with a lot of luck and a great zampagna.
lazio is really disappointing me. i know they have so many problems, so many injuries at the same time (cribari, stendardo, mauri, mutarelli, mudingay).... many players just started playing again (like mauri)..... but still it surprises me to notice what a lack of stamina lazio players are showing.... rossi's athletic preparation was aimed to bring his players to the best shape for the champions league preliminary matches...... so why are they still playing so bad???? They should be on fire theese days, coz they should have more oxygen than the other teams (whose athletic preparation was aimed to bring the players to the perfet shape in october\november).... i don't know.
another big factor is the goalkeeper. peruzzi was among the greatest keepers in the world and he was leader too, i guess lazio is badly missing him

but then again, why buying muslera???? :shock: i mean i don't know this guy and maybe he'll become a hell of a keeper... but there's a man called Amelia who is stuck in livorno since ages!!! he's the most talented young keeper in italy (with mirante and alfonso) and one of the best young keeper in europe too. he already knows the italian football, he already knows the italian fowards..... he already knows the italian language!!! Muslera doesn't even speak italian!!! how can we expect him to guide lazio's defensive line???? It's mostly important for a keeper to talk to his cbs, to tell them when they aren't correctly lined up (coz the keeper is the only one who has a perfect vision of the defensive line line up).....
u have to replace a legend like peruzzi..... and u go for muslera????!!!! :shock: that's unbelieavable. The second big mistake lotito did since he's in charge (the first one was selling foggia).
moerover we also have to admit that lazio camciomercato was pretty disappointing. they will have to face 3 competitions this season (serie a, coppa italia and champions league), and they didn't strenghten the team at all. kolarov seems to be a promising player, but that's not enough of course... i have the feeling lazio will do really bad in champions this season, and that's a real pity, as they played a wonderful football last season

i'd like to write something about cagliari- palermo too, but it's getting late and i already wrote a looooooooong post, so i guess it's better to end it here.

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

Ridiculously brilliant post Ben :applause:

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

Ridiculously brilliant post Ben :applause:

thanks mate :oops:
it's a pleasure to conversate with u :cheers:

anyway my friends are late... they still didn't come here, so i guess i can spend a couple of minutes talking about cagliari-palermo :mrgreen:

cagliari had a great start this season. the team lost many great\good players (from capone, to esposito, from suazo to langella) but they're playing better than last year. last year they were almost a one man team (suazo), while this year they're playing some good football.
they bought foggia, who is a very, very promising player... but the real "star" in cagliari is Giampaolo. He's a very talented coach, who gives a strong imprint to his teams. it took a lot of time to let his players understand his game system, but now they got it, and u can clearely see the results
if people like parola, matri, canini, foggia, fini, conti and acquafresca will truly express their potential, cagliari could do what reggina did last season
let's just hope they'll have a bad day against palermo :mrgreen:

talking about palermo.... we're facing a revolution.... from guidolin to colantuono... we totally changed our game system.... well, we will have to totally change our game system, coz till now we still seem pretty confused on the pitch.
but that's quite normal... i think it will take a lot of time for our players to get inside our new schemes, and we'll see the colantuono's imprint just in jannuary (or even later :roll...
in the meanwhile we just can hang on to the quality of our players.
but also talking about this, we're far from being in a good shape. barzagli looks very tired (he played 8 matches in the last 3 weeks) migliaccio still didn't reach the best shape and we have serious problems on the left, with pisano and capuano out for injury (maybe capuano will be back tomorrow).
besides we still didn't find a decent left back (grosso, where are u!!! )

we also have som problems on the centre of the defense.... i already said about barzagli... biava is injured, rinaudo had some health problems this week...
i can't believe we got rid of dellafiore and bovo!!!!!](*,)... such a stupid move!!!!

it won't be easy in cagliari, but after palermo-torino, we really need 3 points .

 

[Abhishek]

Re: Serie A Thread

Lo Zio, I must say it is an absolute pleasure to read your posts, and increase my own knowledge. You are the most knowledgeable person (after PLF) I have ever met.

 

[AndreaSpooky]

Re: Serie A Thread

a very good reading of the action, lo zio .

even if there is some visible error in that precise action, like too many men in small space, its probably due the recent Mancini's insertion after many months of absence (that is out of his natural place).
Beside that, the module its meant to work that way.
Players near to start the action, few starting run to be marked, and one of these to get the ball while running.
Many small and precise passings, some 1touch some not, to get to the goal.
Fast bursts to score.
Course u cant keep this rythm for all the match, thats why Roma pass some moments attacking and some suffering.

The midfielders are all offensive, not defensive, even if DeRossi spend more time nearby Mexes than he does with Aquilani.
His role is just like Pirlo's. Right a step forward the defense, taking advance of his good placing quality and passing to start an attacking action.
No one beside the defenders are meant to defend, so they... rotate. Perrotta work like a train forward and backward, Taddei often works as a backwing. The other ones... well, they just sacrifice the much they can.

So, what is the weakness? The non-existent midfield, of course.

Anyway, i wouldnt count that Dynamo match as a tape to show to my players to show them weaknesses and errors.
That, imho, was a particular match, with moments of total dominion.
Even with errors like that one above, Dynamo could do just one nice action to score in all the game.
The day after media sayd : "Roma walked on Dynamo". Thats what they did. They could even see them having real fun playing.
This rarely happens, and im sure wont happen with more serious team like Juventus, tomorrow.
To win against Roma play physical, let them not to play quickly and do fast restarts from the defense.
Scoring for first would be good, since they have big difficulties breaking through tight defenses.

Coming back on the romanista side , what really give me hope is the fact Roma is far from being in good form, and seem they started show how to hold when the situation calls (thing lacked all these years).
Another thing : some players that couldnt play till now, like Cicinho or Pizarro, and why not Esposito or Barusso (this last one seem really talented and angry, lets say to play ).
Season is long, and we have enough players to stand, i think (and hope).
More than ever, teams like Inter and Milan are probably not really interested in the season. Or theyll be just in the end, when they can win with a last good streak of matches won.
A Romanista, opinion.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

Lo Zio, I must say it is an absolute pleasure to read your posts, and increase my own knowledge. You are the most knowledgeable person (after PLF) I have ever met.

putting me and Sina on the same phrase is the best compliment i could receive (and it's probably an insult to Sina), as he's a living football bible and i myself learned many things reading his posts (about ligue un, about bundes, about football in general)...
so thank you Abhi

Andrea, nice post! i agree with almost everything u wrote. actually i agree with everything but this statement:

So, what is the weakness? The non-existent midfield, of course.

i wouldn't say roma hasn't a midfield. Actually i'd say roma has one of the best midfield line ine europe (de rossi, aquilani, pizarro).

maybe u meant to say that roma midfield has not a static player, a player who stand in the middle of the pitch, directing the orchestra...... but actually roma has this kind of player.... pizarro. we still didn't see him this season, but that's his role. probably a midfield line with pizarro and de rossi would guarrantee more balance to roma...
but we also have to say that seeing those 2 kids (de rossi and aquilani) playing togheter is a pure pleasure.
and btw, playing without a metronome, without a pizarro, could also be an advantage in some matches, because this way u don't give any benchmark to the opponents. without pizarro roma hasn't a playmaker and the game litterally flows from player to player.

if i would have to find a weak point in roma, i'd say that sometimes they let themselves go too far. they really have fun when they play together, and sometimes they become a little too confident.... like they did against dinamo, when both sidebacks started pushing on the same time, leaving the 2 cbs alone.
we could say "they like themselves too much", paraphrasing an italian expression

another weak point is represented by the lack of a pure, tall foward..... but that's also the reason why they play that awesome football, so...

i wrote a post, days ago about roma. i would like u to read it and express your opinions about it, coz each time a talk to a romanista about it, they reply me differently being a romanista, it would be intersting to hear your opinion.

Spoiler

the strong and weak side of roma lie on the same thing: they have no foward and a brutal first touch gameplay.

having no tipycal fowards means that they can't rely on a long passes strategy. there's not a benchmark player upfront (totti often moves back to "dialogue" with perrotta, mancini, de rossi, taddei aquilani or pizarro). this situation forces them to play a "ball on the ground football", with short first touch passes and continous off the ball movements. Of course they have many players with huge technique, so that's not a problem for them.........
but playing always this football is very expensive, talking about energies. So to play this football your players have to be always in a perfect shape.... which is almost impossible, of course.
during the game it happens quite often that the players get tired. the pace decreases, the players have no oxygen to run even whan they haven't the ball and the distance between the sectors of the field (defensive line, midfield line and offensive line) becomes huge (here in italy, when this happens, we say that the teams are "stretched").
when this happens is very important to have a pure foward (preferably a tall foward), so the players can keep the rhytm of the play without moving themselves, just playing with long passes.
this means that, even during the most criticals moments of the match, when the players are getting tired, the team can still take a breathe, keeping the ball in your opponents midfield.
almost every team in europe does it... but roma can't.
so when roma players get tired (or when they aren't in a perfect shape), the opponents crush them, compress them, bringing the ball in roma's midfield.

the other factor is their first touch pass gameplay. their first touch passing game is different from arsenal, lyon, toulouse first touch passing game. roma players don't head the ball toward their teammate current position, they head the ball toward their teammates next position. we could say that they have a "foward looking passing game". this makes their gamestyle great and unpredictable. but this passing system requires a percect harmony between the players and, once again, a perfect fitness condition.
if the players are too tired to run toward the ball next position, then the whole gameplay is screwed up.

there are many teams in europe that have a "foward looking passer". we usually call them "playmakers": juninho, pirlo, pizarro, valeron, deco, altintop, corini ()
but in roma is different. they play this game with all their players... it's like having 10 playmakers on the pitch.... if just one of them miss the ball, then roma loose his strenght.

there's just one team in europe that plays a "roma football"; sevilla.
but, unlike roma, sevilla has a pure, tall foward, like kanoute who can protect the ball, keep the game in the opponents midfield and give a break to his teammates, when tey run out of oxygen.
roma hasn't a player like this.

so as u can see those features that make roma gameplay so beautiful and effective, are also the main reasons of their weak points.

about de rossi, yes, he takes up he same spot of pirlo in the pitch, but they're quite different, and they give a different interpretation to their role. if i would have to pick a "pirlo-like" player in roma roster, i'd say pizarro is. i'd say de rossi is more a "gerrard-like" midfielder (i hate theese kind of comparisons, but i have to admit the similarities between de rossi and gerrard are really deep).


moving on...
did anybody see di natale goals today ???!!!! :shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread

Sampdoria - Genoa's a derby isn't it? Could be good

Anywho, here are my views for the weekend. I think some truly wonderful football could be played this weekend, Atalanta - Lazio, Catania - Fiorentina and the Roma matches could be amazing. To be honest, I haven't seen enough, or not know enough about the Sampdoria - Genoa teams and rivalry to commment, but if Sina reckons that the match is going to be good, I sure believe him :8):

I don't know if it will be good match but I sure hope so.
Because we've all been waiting for it for a loooooooooong time and 'lo zio' gave some great history on this derby and why it's so special and long-awaited of course. Some things I didn't know which has made me even more eager for this match tomorrow. :8):

putting me and Sina on the same phrase is the best compliment i could receive (and it's probably an insult to Sina), as he's a living football bible and i myself learned many things reading his posts (about ligue un, about bundes, about football in general)...
so thank you Abhi

Don't say that man. You know that's not true.

For me to be compared to you is the opposite of an insult. It's a compliment.

about de rossi, yes, he takes up he same spot of pirlo in the pitch, but they're quite different, and they give a different interpretation to their role. if i would have to pick a "pirlo-like" player in roma roster, i'd say pizarro is. i'd say de rossi is more a "gerrard-like" midfielder (i hate theese kind of comparisons, but i have to admit the similarities between de rossi and gerrard are really deep).

Yes, I have to definitely agree on that.

David Pizarro is the same sorta player as Pirlo because he's not very athletic (Not fast, or strong) but has vision and passing matched by few in this world. The Chilean is your typical play-maker sorta player. Of course, Pirlo is a lot more consistent and that's probably one of the reasons, Andrea is in a different league than David even though both are incredibly talented and great at the same abilities/

On the other hand, De Rossi has a bit of everything to his game and is an all-action midfielder who can be everywhere and help his teams in many different ways. Gerrard does that too so I like the comparison. Even if Stevie G is the best in the world for me at that role and De Rossi isn't as great yet.

Nonetheless, there's little doubt, even in a team like Roma where there is plenty of quality players, he's their most-prized asset. Because if they were to sell someone, I can't imagine anybody being able to coup more money for them than Daniel. Even though there's the likes of Mexes, Mancini and Aquilani who are worth fortunes themselves. But hopefully, he'll stay at Roma for a very very looooooong time and maybe all his career much like Totti himself anyway. :8):

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

Yeah, I can see the same comparison as well, Pizarro is a very talented passer, but I think Pirlo is still quite a bit better. They are both slow though, yet can dictate football at a different level - even though I think Pirlo is on a different level to Pizarro It will be interesting to see when Pizarro manages to play because De Rossi is vital to the team game with his all-action performances, and Aquilani is in such red-hot form - yet seems to be able to play like this for a long, long time - that Pizarro might just find it very difficult to get a regular run in the team. It may be a little unfair, in some respects - but let's not forget that Pizarro can play in the AM role which Perrotta and Giuly play in Still, despite his static action and languid footballing style, he is a pleasure to watch when on form - I personally think that he could have done so well at Inter, but Mancini plumped for Veron, which in my mind was a bad move

De Rossi, on the other hand, will certainly be something special - if he isn't already -. I think he will be constantly in the DM/CM role in Roma, and Barusso/Brighi will be his replacement, should he be fatigued or injured. He is great to watch, and you must really think about how incredible his cardio-vascular levels are considering how much he runs in Roma's matches, and the way Roma play football. Roma's game is very tiring, hence the frequent - albeit not short - bad periods in their matches. Yet De Rossi continues to run and plug away, and it will - and has - caught the attention of many of Europe's elite, including Barcelona. However, I think that De Rossi will stay at Roma for a long, long time and probably end his career in Rome in my opinion Why would he want to leave? This is probably going to be Il Lupi's Golden period considering the talent at their disposal and the level of potential that will probably be fulfilled

However, I prefer Aquilani I know that nobody else will agree with me but I really do prefer watching Aquilani play. I am not saying that Aquilani is better than De Rossi, but I prefer watching the emergence of Aquilani. He is an amazing passer of the ball, and his vision and shooting are excellent. I would say he is quick for a CM, and is certainly a lot faster and athletic than Pizarro, who is really the ideal candidate for Aquilani's midfield spot.

I personally just hope that De Rossi and Aquilani end their careers - no matter when that happend, and hopefully that will be in a long, long, long time - as they are the future of not only Roma, but the Azzuri

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

Don't say that man. You know that's not true.
For me to be compared to you is the opposite of an insult. It's a compliment.

On the other hand, De Rossi has a bit of everything to his game and is an all-action midfielder who can be everywhere and help his teams in many different ways. Gerrard does that too so I like the comparison. Even if Stevie G is the best in the world for me at that role and De Rossi isn't as great yet.

gerrard is with no doubts the best in the world in his role (better, in his interpretation of the central midfielder role).
actually, before de rossi came out, gerrard hadn't even competitors for the "title of best in his role" as there weren't midfielders like him in europe niether in south america (or at least, i can't remember anybody who gave his same interpretation to that role).
then, with de rossi, we finally saw another awesome all around central midfielder. The pace, the passing accuracy (in short and long passes) the terrific shoot, the cannon leg, the ability in breaking the opponents plays, the charisma, the presence on the field.... they're so similar under so many aspects.

of course daniele still didn't reach gerrard level (steve is really in a class by himself) but he's really close to him and he plays the same way.

another peculiar similarity between them is their huge charisma. both of them are still young (daniele is just 24, steven is 27) but they are (since many years already) true leaders. .

Nonetheless, there's little doubt, even in a team like Roma where there is plenty of quality players, he's their most-prized asset.

absolutely agree with u
and being a romano and a romanista (as totti and aquilani), i think he won't ever leave roma (exactly as totti and aquilani).

also talking about the pizarro\pirlo comparison, i just meant to say they play the same football..... but pirlo too is in a class by himself (well, pirlo and juninho are in a class by themselves).

i usually don't do comparisons as i think each player is unique and different from the others.... but sometimes comparisons can be useful to describe the type of football some players play, the peculiar interpretation they give to a role.


EDIT:

However, I prefer Aquilani I know that nobody else will agree with me but I really do prefer watching Aquilani play. I am not saying....

i've got the feeling aquilani will become one of the best italian players in history (like rivera)
of course i can't be sure of it.. he's still so young and unexperienced, and he still has a lot to learn.... but that's my feeling.
anyway i can't compare him to de rossi, for 2 reasons. first of all, there's an experience gap between them. i saw alberto in tha past, during his "loan experiences", but playing in serie b is different from playing in serie a.
moreover they play a different football, they give a different interpretation to the role of central midfielder, so it's hard to compare them.

but let's not forget that Pizarro can play in the AM role which Perrotta and Giuly play in

reading this, something funny came to my mind. at the moment roma plays:
- with an advanced midfielder playing as a foward (totti)
- with a defensive midfielder playing as a advanced midfielder (perrotta)
- with a side back and an advanced midfielder playing as wings (mancini and taddei)
- with an advanced midfielder playing as a playmaker.

all those changes (except the totti's one) were Spalletti intuitions! this just gives u an idea about what a great coach he is! :applause:

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

I agree with you and all but one of those things - I think that Mancini played as a SM/WG just prior to Spalletti's appointment as well, so I think he is more of WG/SM than SB, even though he used to play there

Also, Ben call me Satty ok I dont know why i called myself dutty_nose111 myself :lmao:

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

I agree with you and all but one of those things - I think that Mancini played as a SM/WG just prior to Spalletti's appointment as well, so I think he is more of WG/SM than SB, even though he used to play there

oups, actually u're right, Satty. Mancini already played as a wing before spalletti came to roma. mancini role change was a capello intuition.
also taddei already played as a wing in siena (sometimes).

but perrotta and pizarro role changes are pure spalletti brainchilds

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

absolutely I also have noticed that Giuly has been particularly effective when he has been in Perrotta's position - which is as an AM - and before in Monaco and Barcelona he has played as either a SM, WG or SS. Another clever move by Spalletti as Giuly has been excellent whenever he has played instead of Perrotta

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread

Well said guys. So many great points brought up. :applause:

Everything I wanted to say has been mentioned by one of you now, so I'm just gonna be 'silent'. :p

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

Wow, to shut you up is some feat :p :p :p

 

[AndreaSpooky]

Re: Serie A Thread

Andrea, nice post! i agree with almost everything u wrote. actually i agree with everything but this statement:

i wouldn't say roma hasn't a midfield. Actually i'd say roma has one of the best midfield line ine europe (de rossi, aquilani, pizarro).

maybe u meant to say that roma midfield has not a static player, a player who stand in the middle of the pitch, directing the orchestra...... but actually roma has this kind of player.... pizarro. we still didn't see him this season, but that's his role. probably a midfield line with pizarro and de rossi would guarrantee more balance to roma...

eheh of course. i know theyre such good.
i meant no midfield from a defense point of view, since all miedfielders (beside the mistery man, Barusso) are meant to attack and create.
this is why in defense phase all the defenders are very close to the midfield, so all the team shrink (for the offside or whatsoever, like ball dump off the field).
but this is how this roma play is made. hold the ball as long as possible and try to break the opponent attacking from the very beginning (they usually keep the team very high to avoid opponent to use the brain while playing).

even barcelona use a bit of this way to play (im watching it now).
since roma cant worth barcelona's players, it is limited in its way to play (direct players faceoff duels betweeen these 2 are no match).
so it must play with more sacrifice and intelligence, whenever that might be possible .
thats why a player like... i dont know... Gattuso would be really useful. someone with the lungs and guts to sacrifice till death comes . someone that might be not liked by many, but needed when time calls.
ive heard Barusso is one of this kind, somekind of a force of the nature and i really hope it.

About DeRossi, even me and my friends recognize him as a little Stevie.
Personally i dont find his complete as Gerrard, mostly due physical reasons.
As an example, ive seen Gerrard play as a second attacker... but ive never seen DeRossi.
Daniele find its way to attack only when he left his shoulders covered.

Anyway, im sure the weakness about all the energy used to attack, theyve planned something to help, like the looooong bench we have this year to "supply" the team .
The only thing i feel we'd need, even in this good roster, is someone who can garantee the score when time is about to end in a match.
Maybe a sure-striker, a mid-range scorer or a strong header. Someone we dont have.
That would have meant maybe an "unholy" player in a sanctuary but... what the hell, could have meant even a score to save a game.

p.s. : in the beginning i just wanted to know how u people judge Perrotta stats, for pes. LOL

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

mmm, this conversation is getting really intersting.
i an't got much time, but u undelined some really intersting points, so i'll try to be as brief as possible......(who am i kidding i won't be brief at all :mrgreen.

i meant no midfield from a defense point of view, since all miedfielders (beside the mistery man, Barusso) are meant to attack and create.
this is why in defense phase all the defenders are very close to the midfield, so all the team shrink (for the offside or whatsoever, like ball dump off the field).
but this is how this roma play is made. hold the ball as long as possible and try to break the opponent attacking from the very beginning (they usually keep the team very high to avoid opponent to use the brain while playing).

exactly! this is roma game system... and anyway, Andrea, it's not a "without defense system". roma midfield line also does a great defensive phase...... but it's hard to notice it, coz they defend "their way".
there are many ways to defend: u can defend with the defensive line, u can start defending from the midfield line, and u can also push the defensive phase till the offensive line.... that's what roma does.
roma hasn't a gattuso (also because gattuso is unique!), but they actually don't need him as roma midfield doesn't defend "gattuso style".
ringhio is an awesome game-breaker, and he's probably the best passing game disruptor, in his own midfield. But roma doesn't defend in his own midfield.... roma defend in his opponents mmidfield. roma doesn't break the opponent's passing game, roma disallows the opponents passing game, by putting a huge pressure on the opponent central midfielders (with de rossi and perrotta) and on the opponent sidebacks (with their wings).

infact it happens quite often that roma's sidebacks take the place of roma's wings. mancini and taddei cut inside (on the centre), carrying with themselves the opponent sidebacks, and allowing cassetti, tonetto, panucci (and from this season also cicinho) to push along the sideline and to cross with nobody pressing them (as the opponent sidebacks are on mancini and taddei)....
sometimes then the opponents do "the ultimate mistake": they realize roma sidebacks are absolutely free to do what they want, and try to cover them with 1 of their cbs..... leaving the remaining cb alone, trying to handle totti and perrotta :lol:

When the genius Sacchi used to say "a good defense starts from the attack", he didn't mean to say the attacking is more important.... he meant to say that a good defense starts from the fowards line.
now that's roma football. and roma players are perfect for this gameplan....
gattuso is awesome, he's the best in the world in absolving his duties, but he's not good for roma, imo. he plays in his own midfield, while roma game system requires players who play in their opponents midfield.

moreover mate, a football team is like an algebraic equation; if u change even just 1 element the whole result changes... and we can't tell what roma would be with a gattuso.... we can just say that it would be a very different team......... and honestly, i like roma the way it is by now

The only thing i feel we'd need, even in this good roster, is someone who can garantee the score when time is about to end in a match.
Maybe a sure-striker, a mid-range scorer or a strong header. Someone we dont have.
That would have meant maybe an "unholy" player in a sanctuary but... what the hell, could have meant even a score to save a game.

:lol::lol::lol: i really like the bolded part, Andrea... funny and true in the same time.
actually i do think roma needs a foward.... but not a goal scorer, not a starting formation foward (also because there would be a riot in roma if spalletti would put totti out of the starting 11 :lol.
imo roma needs a "situation player", a foward who stays on the bench and get inside the game just when the situation requires it.
roma scores with every player (except doni) they score with totti, they score with those 3 guys behind him (mancini, perrotta and taddei), they score with their central midfielders (de rossi, aquilani or pizarro), they score with their sidebacks.... what the hell they even score with mexes and juan sometimes!

So roma doesn't need another scorer, imo. roma needs a tall foward who can get on the pitch when the midfielders get tired. coz each time roma gets tired, they become "easily smashable".. the sidebacks stop pushing (freeing the opponents side players from their pressing), the wings stop coming back when the opponents have the ball (leaving the 2 central midfielders alone to handle the whole midfield)....
roma just collapse (such an appropriate word).
in this situation is much important to have a tall foward able to receive long passes from the defense and deflect the ball for the upcoming wings. A player who can bring the game in the opponents midfield even when the midfielders are out of oxygen.
last season roma lost many silly points just coz his midfield collapsed and the defenders hadn't a "benchmark player" upfront who could receive their long passes. chivu and mexes were forced to play ball on the ground and restart the action, passing the ball to a midfielder..... but roma midfielder were toasted, they didn't resist to their opponent pressing, lost the ball, and so chivu and mexes had to protect their box once again, and again, and again....

so let's try to do an identikit of this hypothetical player.
1 - he doesn't have to be a star or a big name, as he have to accept to be a backup without complaining.
2 - he has to play (at the moment) for a middle class team, as roma can't afford to pay high wages... especially for a backup player.
3 - he doesn't have to be a goal scorer, but he has to be tall, and he has to be good in protecting the ball, and in deflecting long passes for his teammates.

my pick is...... Corradi :mrgreen:
i know many of u will be disgusted by my choice.... but if u think again, he's the most appropriate man.
he's very good in protecting the ball and in first touch head-passing (actually that's the only thing he's good at :lol
he comes from parma, and he would be damned happy to stay on roma's bench.
he doesn't cost a lot and he hasn't a heavy wage at the moment.

of course some other players, like cruz, amauri, toni could be even better.... but none of them will go to roma, so it's useless to talk about them.

Everything I wanted to say has been mentioned by one of you now, so I'm just gonna be 'silent'.

:mrgreen:
ok then, but it would be great to read some of your thoughts about one of this sunday matches, mate


EDIT:

I also have noticed that Giuly has been particularly effective when he has been in Perrotta's position - which is as an AM - and before in Monaco and Barcelona he has played as either a SM, WG or SS. Another clever move by Spalletti as Giuly has been excellent whenever he has played instead of Perrotta

yep, Satty
he tried to put ludovic on the centre when he realized vicunic could be deadly as a left wing (and i'm really happy vucinic finally found his spot in roma).
and actually that's another spalletti role change: vucinic (a pure striker) playing as mancini backup





p.s.
for those who missed Di natale show yesterday

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=RIEb_RZULsk

and here there are the highlights of the match

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=q6i6zeGJ5ek

 

[AndreVB]

Re: Serie A Thread

This discussion is very interesting to follow. So many great things said. Nice goals there by Di Natale the one where he takes the ball and shoots on a volley is really nice done by him. Awesome technique, and the other one is not bad either.

 

[AndreaSpooky]

Re: Serie A Thread

mmm, this conversation is getting really intersting.
i an't got much time, but u undelined some really intersting points, so i'll try to be as brief as possible......(who am i kidding i won't be brief at all :mrgreen.



exactly! this is roma game system... and anyway, Andrea, it's not a "without defense system". roma midfield line also does a great defensive phase...... but it's hard to notice it, coz they defend "their way".
there are many ways to defend: u can defend with the defensive line, u can start defending from the midfield line, and u can also push the defensive phase till the offensive line.... that's what roma does.
roma hasn't a gattuso (also because gattuso is unique!), but they actually don't need him as roma midfield doesn't defend "gattuso style".
ringhio is an awesome game-breaker, and he's probably the best passing game disruptor, in his own midfield. But roma doesn't defend in his own midfield.... roma defend in his opponents mmidfield. roma doesn't break the opponent's passing game, roma disallows the opponents passing game, by putting a huge pressure on the opponent central midfielders (with de rossi and perrotta) and on the opponent sidebacks (with their wings).

my pick is...... Corradi :mrgreen:
i know many of u will be disgusted by my choice.... but if u think again, he's the most appropriate man.
he's very good in protecting the ball and in first touch head-passing (actually that's the only thing he's good at :lol
he comes from parma, and he would be damned happy to stay on roma's bench.
he doesn't cost a lot and he hasn't a heavy wage at the moment.

of course some other players, like cruz, amauri, toni could be even better.... but none of them will go to roma, so it's useless to talk about them.

suresure, i know a not-really-technical-player like gattuso would mean miss some quality in midfield play (not as much as many might think, imho), but the overall play would be better, since theres no only attacking phase.
i think is needed someone who can hold while the rest is not holding, due those inevitable "pauses" players get in the game.
someone who can be tough enough to stop opponent's playing (or particular player), not just "willing to".
pizarro is a good possession midfielder, but not when a rough touch is needed.
id prefer not to mention certain "Old" matches (bocca mia taci)... when a good "puncher" would have been great. a role that we dont have (beside Brighi, maybe).
forward players like totti cant do high pressing for all the game, so the suffering starts every game.
A suffer man would be great in that moment, for the morale too.
Even coz not all the matches can be played at the same way.
Some need a flower, some other... sword.
Flower was the only choice when u couldnt pick fresh men to pull on the ground, but not when u can finally choose.

About the forward man, many are not willing to come, since theyre place is not garanteed, and they dont wanna play as a 2nd (unlikely, theres Vucinic) or 3rd (more likely) choice.
Or play just for the final part. Who can blame them.
U picked Corradi (too few scores per match, imho), id picked Lucarelli, but im sure he wouldnt come to play just to score in the end (not to mention the money hes taking now).

Udinese seem have learned a recent "lesson". Good for her
A question : where is "under the 7" Quagliarella? Still at the beach?

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

i think is needed someone who can hold while the rest is not holding, due those inevitable "pauses" players get in the game.

yep, that's a very good point, mate. But watching roma this season i noticed they are getting used to handle those "resting moments" by playing a possession game based on fast first touch passes that "hide" the ball to their opponents. Of course a "gattuso" would be helpful but this gameplan is based on a simple principle: the ball has to move continuously, from player to player. each roma player has to get rid of the ball as soon as possible. If just one of them keeps the ball a little too much, then the opponents have the time to adapt their position on the pitch to the ball position and line up themselves correctly.
now, gattuso is not exactly a first touch passer, so he could mess the whole roma game system just by keeping the ball on his foot for too much time.
moerover u got brighi (as u correctly pointed out), who is a very good "plays disruptor" and is technically more elegant than gattuso .
anyway that's just my view and i could be wrong. and definitely gattuso is a hell of a player and would strenghten each team he would join.

About the forward man, many are not willing to come, since theyre place is not garanteed, and they dont wanna play as a 2nd (unlikely, theres Vucinic) or 3rd (more likely) choice.
Or play just for the final part. Who can blame them.

that's exactly the reason why i mentioned corradi
as for the "few scores per match" that's true, corradi is an awful scorer, but i don't think u need a scorer. i think u need a tall benchmark player upfront, who can distribute the ball to the wings, when totti and the midfielders get too tired.

This discussion is very interesting to follow. So many great things said. Nice goals there by Di Natale the one where he takes the ball and shoots on a volley is really nice done by him. Awesome technique, and the other one is not bad either.

it's nice to see many people getting intersted in this thread
you, and your thoughts are welcome, mate
about di natale, did u see that rabona? (aquilani style)
talking about the goals, i liked the most the 2nd one. the most important thing in football is stopping the ball correctly. Liedholm used to say "when a foward does a perfect ball stopping (without rebounds, putting it on the correct feet) the goal is almost done".
the way he "hooked" that long pass was just awesome!

A question : where is "under the 7" Quagliarella? Still at the beach?

that's a good question :roll:

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

Hope Roma-Juve is a decent game....

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

What match is John Barnes watching....just saw Totti time a perfect through ball to Mexes and Juves defence try and push for the offside trap....Barnes say well drilled defence and just off on the slow mo replay despite Mexes clearly being on-side.

Brilliant goal from Totti.

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

Totti

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

I can't believe how open Juve are...2-1 down and wide open.

This game looks like it has a good few goals left in it one way or the other.

Seems to me that this formation plays into Roma's hands. Zanetti is in the middle on his own far to often and getting swamped. Counter attacks are leaving him screwed, Roma have two many bodies in there especially with the full backs getting forward so well too.

I know formations do not play the game, but I can't help thinking that going to a 3-5-2 would be better. Juve have to get a hold of the midfield...

Camoranesi is a big miss too, but more than anything it a lack of bodies to help Zanetti.

If that was a penalty on Pavel then I am chinese.


Second half decended into a farce for me, Roma wanted the game to end after 45 mins and lost all urgency, movement etc and just started to take the piss.

Juve looked dreadful but deserved an equaliser because Roma did not have the guts to go for a third goal. Had Roma gone for the jugular they would have walked this game.