Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

[hayabusa85]

Re: Serie A Thread

i didn't watch milan - catania yesterday, so i can't really talk about the match. i have to say i'm quite surprised by the result, as milan looked pretty good against palermo last week. anyway milan's problem is not ancelotti. milan just needs a scorer (and a good keeper).
firing ancelotti would be a suicide move imo.
first of all that's not the moment for a coach change... and of course galliani and berlusconi know it (they're not abramovich).
besides it would be really hard to find a better coach than ancelotti. Mourinho is a great coach, but he's not on the same level of ancelotti. the football ancelotti's team expressed from 2002 to 2005 could become a subject in an hypothetical football university. Nobody played that way before him. he gave a new meaning to the playmaker role, placing for the first time an advanced midfielder in that position (actually he wasn't really the first one.... the first one was baldini, who did it many years before ancelotti... but ancelotti did it on the intarnational stage). of course he had great players, and as i said, this helps a lot a coach..... but having great players is not everything. real madrid has always great players, but still i vever saw real playing good football. their matches are usually entertaining, as when u have so much quality, "the magic just happens"... but it was always just about great individual efforts, great individual plays, there wasn't a plot-line in real football.
and the same goes for barca. they are great to watch.... but it's not because of rijkaard... it's because of their players. there's no coach imprint in barca gameplay. it's like watching some great artist during a jam session.... it's a great improvisation, but there's not an orchestra director. in milan's football instead, ancelotti's imprint is strong...... well, it was strong.
finally, milan is not the right team for mourinho game style. and galliani wants just ex milan players to coach the team (donadoni, rijkaard, tassotti).

firing ancelotti could be a reasonable move just if ancelotti would loose his "grip" on the players. dressing room management is a key factor, and when the players doesn't listen to (or trust) their coach anymore, it doesn't matter how good he is, he has to leave.
but we can't say if this happened. that's something just milan knows.

Great post, lo zio!

I've always been a Milan fan of sorts and i agree with your coments about Ancelotti, and you're right also about Milan needing a new goalkeeper and a striker, Milan do have a great spine in their team (Nesta, Pirlo, Gattuso, Kaka, Gilardino), however they really need to look towards building around that spine, as great as they are i don't really want to see the likes of Paulo Maldini, Cafu and to a lesser extent likes of Serginho, Favalli, Kalac for other season. So in the next year or two Milan are really going to have to bring in some new players, defenders especially.

I do feel for Gilardino at the moment because despite not hitting the back of the net, he hasn't been playing that badly. The way Milan are playing at the moment with Kaka and Seedorf behind him dosen't really bring out the best in him i feel, as he's constantly having to come deeper towards the play, whereas he is more effective on the last line of defense so i do feel that Milan need another striker to complement him, whether it be Ricardo Oliveria or someone like Amauri even.

Also i do think Dida is maybe a couple of years past his prime and should probably give up the number 1 jersey, however i do feel that he would be good to have around for maybe another year or so as no. 2 to whomever Milan sign. Amelia? Boruc?

However so far it's been a great start to to the Serie A campaign, i've been really impressed with the viola so far and long may it continue!

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

I watched the Milan game a couple of hours latter due to the new wonder of video taping :lmao:

Anyway;

I do not know enough about seria and Milan to give comment upon Anceloti's position, but what i would say is that sometimes the players have to take responsibility as well as the coaching staff. To often we hear blame despatched first and foremost to the coach and while tactics and motivation are vital, it has to be said that sometimes players make terrible mistakes because of their own inadequacies....

I feel that a coaching error is playing Inzaghi as a lone striker. We know that Inzaghi is a great poacher, very adept at running into channels and slipping an offside trap on the last mans shoulder and scoring goals. But we do kind of know that he is offside far too often due to his willingness and wish to get in behind the defence and this of course is not really what you want from a lone front man as each time you are caught offside you lose position. Also Inzaghi’s physical frame and disposition and tendencies exacerbate this problem and make him truly unsuitable in a lone frontman role, so I think this is a coaching error….

BUT!!

It is categorically NOT the reason Milan drew with Catania. The reason Catania got a draw with Milan is simple for this one game and it is this;

Catania had an attack and the Milan defence lacking Nesta went to sleep. If you watch the Catania goal again and watch what happens after the one on one situation as the striker is forced wide. None of the Milan players react and get back with any urgencies into their positions, they are switched off, walking slow to react. Then went the ball is crossed, no one and I mean NO ONE is their to defend the ball, challenge for the header etc. Milan are FAR better than that generally that was a terrible moment and sometimes moments like that happen to good teams.

Milan might not be creating enough and they might need to make adjustments in certain areas and they of course need a Gilardino on from or Ronaldo….another striker for sure if you play Inzaghi.

BUT!!

Was that atrocious defending in that moment down to Anceloti, a lack of coaching of foresight?

No.

IMHO I think Milan players had a very bad day at the office …a terrible moment.

And they need players on form and other players back.

Anceloti won the champions League and he should not be under pressure in my view.


Am I wrong and missing something…maybe I am missing subtleties of the game as I am new to seria…

Be glad to hear others opinions on this…

P.S

When was the last time Catania draw against Milan? Maybe these results happen ever x many years no matter what….infinite monkeys and typewriters should dictate as much..No?

P.S to my P.S

My most irritated response ever

https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/42983/page-3

People may hate me now....but sometimes in football you have to wear your heart on your sleave and say no way!!

 

[tobi]

Re: Serie A Thread

What if Milan had a winger?

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread

They wont. imo wingers aren't very popular in Milan's game. We've always used attacking midfielders or wing backs for width, and its been this way for qutie a while.

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

It seems like the Milan way of playing is to have an attacking and defensive mid and use the 4-4-2 where the full backs can also attack...I can't imagine Milan playing differently from this.

Adding a winger to the squad might be a good thing in terms of a way of changing the play if things are not working out, but it would be difficult for Milan to accomadate a winger given Seedorf, Kaka, Pirlo, Gattuso etc...

Milan did have Serginho...but?

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread

Hes injured and usually plays as attacking left back or striker (usually only when we need a goal).

 

[tobi]

Re: Serie A Thread

Who do they have to bring from the bench?

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

Brocchi, Gourcuff or Emerson :ha:

 

[tobi]

Re: Serie A Thread

Emerson - :lol:

What position does Gourcuff play and when will the duck be allowed to join AC?

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

I think, I am not too sure, but I think Gourcuff plays as a CM/AM.

Pato will be allowed to play in January

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread

Gourcuff is usually played in all positions of midfield, like Seedorf. Hes decent at it too.

 

[tobi]

Re: Serie A Thread

In PES6 I played Youri as both an AM and in the role that Seedorf plays but it didn't feel right.

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread

Youri?
Don't you mean Yoann if you're talking about Gourcuff?

Gourcuff is a great talent. He just made a mistake when he left Ligue 1 to join Milan giants after ONLY 1 season under his belt as a first-team regular. He left the team and the league way too early, simply said.

His main position is a CM who tends to attack more than defend. So he's capable of playing as an AM as well. He can play on the side but it's not really where he's at his best. He's primarily a more central player and his lack of great pace, rather tall figure and physique explains that more or less as well.

It's a shame he left so soon because Ligue 1 was the perfect place for him to keep developing as a player as some other amazingly talented young midfielders are currently still doing such as Ederson or Nasri. By playing at least one more season at Rennes where he had become an important part of 1st team and was almost always on the team-sheet, he'd by now be a much better, more confident and accomplished player than he is currently, having sat on the bench so much for Milan since joining them.

I thought it was a bad decision when I had just heard about it when it happened and I'm glad Samir Nasri is more mature and smarter than him in that sense and he's ripping the benefits of it too.

Nonetheless, having said all that, Yoann is a great talent for future and has a lot of potential. He can be a true world-class all-action midfielder one day.

 

[tobi]

Re: Serie A Thread

My bad.

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

Are you guys looking forward to the Celtic Milan game?

How do you think it will go, how will Milan differ in their approach to this game when considering the Catania game?

Not sure where this game is...Setanta maybe?

I definitely want to watch it so hopefully I can get it somehow.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

so it's milan talking now! ok then

vanzandt, first of all thanks about your milan - catania report. i read your post and i agree with many things u wrote.
i think people here in italy is going too far criticizing milan. i even heard a journalist saying that milan has been awful in serie a in the past few years......
mr. Sconcerti, u're an idiot!
milan is just facing an unlucky moment. if they would have won against palermo nobody would criticize milan and the team would be just 3 points behind inter (and milan really deserved to win agaisnt us).

the truth is that we italians sometimes are a little too passionals. and also our journalists,who are known for their balance, sometimes say stupid things.

another truth is that milan hadn't a great season neither last year. they still managed, with a freat season finale, to grab a champions league spot (despite the handicap points) and they won the CL. So everybody forgot milan's problem and many people glorified the champions of europe.

but CL is a cup. it's great to watch, it's fun. but it won't ever tell u wich is the strongest team.... because is a cup.
Milan wasn't the greatest club in europe last year. they had a big merit; they focused themselves and gave their best in the most important matches. but they weren't the best team in europe (neither in italy) last year.
they just won the CL.... and then we all forgot their weak sides.
this year milan is showing the same weak sides they already showed last year. So why are we surprised???? what did they this summer to solve their problems???? nothing. so here we are again, talking about gilardino problems, the goalkeeper issue, the kakà issue, the seedorf issue.

milan is not an awful team, like many italian journalists keep saying. they still have one of the best and most experienced starting 11 in europe...... the problem is that they are getting "a little too experienced", if u know what i mean.
we can't expect players like seedorf, emerson and inzaghi to play on their levels every week.... their phisique doesn't allow them to play as they used to play... to play as much as they used to play.... and that's a fact.

serginho, cafù, maldini, favalli.... they're older than many milan board's member. they're not football players anymore, no matter what they think about it.

nesta and kaladze are injury prone and milan's only decent backup for the cb role is bonera (actually they have simic too, but i guess carletto doesn't like him, as he's not playing anymore.... and that's why simic said he will leave in jannuary).

talking about the midfield, the situation is even worse. milan backups are ambrosini, brocchi, gourcouff and emerson..... 4 central midfielders... 4 backups for the same role!!!:shock:
emerson is absolutely useless. he was a great player in his roma and juve days... but he's not anymore the same player... and he's even older than milan's starting midfielders!!!:lol:

they bought gourcouff...... why???!!!! what's the point in buying such a promising talent, if u never let him play????
the gourcouff transfer was a tragedy for everbody, imo
- for rennes, who lost a very promising player.... if they would have kept him at rennes for just 1 year more, they could have sold him for much more money...
- for Milan, who buyed a young talent, just to leave him on the bench wasting his most precious years (he should play to earn experience and confidence), and wasting their money.
- for yohann, who made a huge mistake, listening to his father advice ("dont' go to lyon, sign for milan, son"). he spent the last 2 years on the bench, and even when he got a chance to play, he was placed in seedorf spot, wich is not his proper position on the pitch.
to put it in simple words, i agree with Sina

the goalkeeper situation. last year galliani renewed dida's contract..... now milan is paying for that decision. dida wasn't even able to find another team last year, when his contract was expiring and he was a free transfer.... now nobody will ever make an offer for dida (if nobody did it when he was free, who could do a bid now that he has a 5 millions euros contract :shock::shock??).

i know i already said it a thousand times...... but i'll repeat myself: amelia is still playing for livorno


the striker issue: may guys here said gilardino was pretty good lately, even if he didn't score. and i agree with theese guys. he's doing good. the onlt reason why gila isn't scoring is because milan always plays the same way, no matter if there's gila or inzaghi upfront.
milan is doing with gila the same mistake done with oliveira. they're not realizing gila is a different player from inzaghi. He can't play with that game system. inzaghi can ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
little note: vanzandt, i have to disagree with u about this:

I feel that a coaching error is playing Inzaghi as a lone striker. We know that Inzaghi is a great poacher, very adept at running into channels and slipping an offside trap on the last mans shoulder and scoring goals. But we do kind of know that he is offside far too often due to his willingness and wish to get in behind the defence and this of course is not really what you want from a lone front man as each time you are caught offside you lose position. Also Inzaghi’s physical frame and disposition and tendencies exacerbate this problem and make him truly unsuitable in a lone frontman role, so I think this is a coaching error….

when u play counters, a lone striker is the wisest solution. with just 1 man upfront, the opponent's cbs are prone to move foward the defensive line. and that's the best way to let inzaghi do his job. with 2 men upfront, the cbs are more careful and it becomes harder for inzaghi to find those "channels" u're talking about.
moreover inzaghi is a trezeguet-like player. he can't play with another striker beside him, because he always looks for each ball (his history testifies it).
once an italian journalist wrote something very true and funny "inzaghi always anticipates... he anticipates the cbs, he anticipates the ball, he also anticipates his teammates :lol:."
that's very true. there's no chance for gila to get a ball, when he plays beside inzaghi.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gettin back to the topic....
inzaghi perfectly fits milan's gameplan, gila doesn't. but inzaghi can't be milan's main striker, coz he can't play each week. gila must be milan's main striker. so it's up to ancelotti to find a gameplan good for gila.

milan is not an awful team (as many journalists wrote theese days), but they have some problems (the same problems they had last season). they will still have a good season imo (they won't win the scudetto, but they will fight for it), but they hav to solve their problems soon, because milan's old generation is saying goodbye..... and we still didn't see milan's new generation (as there isn't any milan's new generation, at the moment).

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread

I agree about our strikers and Gourcuff. Gourcuff, imo, has been good each time he played, I really want him to play more. But if we remove one of our 'golden' midfielders like Seedorf, Gattuso or Ambrosini.... the Milan system collapses. Gourcuff is quite quick, has good dribbling moves and is determined. In fact, I want to buy his shirt for this year.

About Emerson, I still think hes going to be good, but as a sub. Hes been decent each game hes played, except his debut. He also doesnt seem to complain. I dont think I will either considering we paid around 4 million pounds for someone of his level.

In the attack, I really felt Oliveira had potential. We didnt take advantage over his speed and dribbling. His season last year wasnt poor, it was unlucky. We need to use Kaka and Seedorf to get him to run onto the ball. He already showed us how good he is when theres a counter attack. Remember Milan-Lazio? he beat 3 defenders only to shoot it against Peruzzi ... a great GK. Milan tries to use long balls which seems only to work for Inzaghi, and not for Gilardino or Oliveira. Gilardino has, however, been a very good "torre" this year, even though he cant score.

Our defence needs additions... especially for Favalli and Cafu. I really get annoyed when they play... they are slow and arent as focus as 25 years ago.... Catania goal was Favalli's fault. I'm very pleased at the use of Oddo and Jankulovski though, and think our center backs + Bonera are good players. Maldini wont play much this year, I'm quite sure because of his injuries... so I'm not too worried for il capitano, especially if its his last year.

Overall I dont think there is any crisis.... just poor adaptability by the players. We're not speeding up our play enough. Every much its like watching Kaka vs another team when we attack. We need our short passing to speed up a little and stop sending long balls to players like Gilardino who is weak at dribbling and good at just playing like Trezeguet.... a finisher.

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

so it's milan talking now! ok then

vanzandt, first of all thanks about your milan - catania report. i read your post and i agree with many things u wrote.

Thanks Lo zio

i think people here in italy is going too far criticizing milan. i even heard a journalist saying that milan has been awful in serie a in the past few years......
mr. Sconcerti, u're an idiot!

Seems very harsh to say Milan have been awful and a little like re-writing history to fit what they see in the present.

milan is just facing an unlucky moment. if they would have won against palermo nobody would criticize milan and the team would be just 3 points behind inter (and milan really deserved to win agaisnt us).

You must be happy though right…I mean it is hard enough taking points off the big boys and you take them anyway they come Haha

the truth is that we italians sometimes are a little too passionals. and also our journalists,who are known for their balance, sometimes say stupid things.

I can confirm that saying stupid things is not the preserve of the Italians. English people say stupid things too and sometimes even me Haha. Of course it is rare for me you understand, but you’ll have to take my word for that hehe. No people say daft things everywhere you go, stupidity knows no boarders.

On a funny note/tangent I once tried to chat up a girl in Spain by saying a phrase to her in her native language that my friends told me would be a nice line to try and pull her (they set me up). I said to her/asked, whilst up to my tits in a swimming pool…..”where is the door”. You have to admit that is brilliantly retarded Haha…. :lmao:

another truth is that milan hadn't a great season neither last year. they still managed, with a freat season finale, to grab a champions league spot (despite the handicap points) and they won the CL. So everybody forgot milan's problem and many people glorified the champions of europe.

People have said the very same thing about our fierce rivals Liverpool. To be fair to Liverpool and Milan, they still did win the CL and it is a massive feat and takes some doing. Maybe it is not a test of a team like the league is being a cup, but it is still a big test and you have to play a certain quality on given mach days to win it. I do not doubt anything you are saying about Milan’s drawbacks, I am sure you are right and whilst I do not think winning the CL should be used to paper over the cracks, it is still a great achievement for Milan, the players and Anceloti.

but CL is a cup. it's great to watch, it's fun. but it won't ever tell u wich is the strongest team.... because is a cup.

I guess it depends upon where you derive your definition from. Of course the CL does not show consistency in the same way as the league, neither does it require the same attacking impetus, to go for the win every game and that is a major key to winning a league title. But in a cup and in the CL you do have to be very clever in terms of tactics and balance of your team, there is a certain balance and disposition that suits certain styles of play, that allows maybe a less than great league side to be a great cup side etc.

Milan wasn't the greatest club in europe last year. they had a big merit; they focused themselves and gave their best in the most important matches. but they weren't the best team in europe (neither in italy) last year.

In terms of Europe it depends upon what your criteria is for judging Milan. I the criteria is results then clearly Milan were the best team in Europe last year, if it is the style of the football or something more subjective then it is open to more interpretation. You are not wrong in what you are saying, but then again neither is someone who would disagree with you as you will have differing criteria that make for differing judgments.

they just won the CL.... and then we all forgot their weak sides.
this year milan is showing the same weak sides they already showed last year. So why are we surprised???? what did they this summer to solve their problems???? nothing. so here we are again, talking about gilardino problems, the goalkeeper issue, the kakà issue, the seedorf issue.

milan is not an awful team, like many italian journalists keep saying. they still have one of the best and most experienced starting 11 in europe...... the problem is that they are getting "a little too experienced", if u know what i mean.
we can't expect players like seedorf, emerson and inzaghi to play on their levels every week.... their phisique doesn't allow them to play as they used to play... to play as much as they used to play.... and that's a fact.

serginho, cafù, maldini, favalli.... they're older than many milan board's member. they're not football players anymore, no matter what they think about it.

nesta and kaladze are injury prone and milan's only decent backup for the cb role is bonera (actually they have simic too, but i guess carletto doesn't like him, as he's not playing anymore.... and that's why simic said he will leave in jannuary).

talking about the midfield, the situation is even worse. milan backups are ambrosini, brocchi, gourcouff and emerson..... 4 central midfielders... 4 backups for the same role!!!:shock:
emerson is absolutely useless. he was a great player in his roma and juve days... but he's not anymore the same player... and he's even older than milan's starting midfielders!!!:lol:

they bought gourcouff...... why???!!!! what's the point in buying such a promising talent, if u never let him play????
the gourcouff transfer was a tragedy for everbody, imo
- for rennes, who lost a very promising player.... if they would have kept him at rennes for just 1 year more, they could have sold him for much more money...
- for Milan, who buyed a young talent, just to leave him on the bench wasting his most precious years (he should play to earn experience and confidence), and wasting their money.
- for yohann, who made a huge mistake, listening to his father advice ("dont' go to lyon, sign for milan, son"). he spent the last 2 years on the bench, and even when he got a chance to play, he was placed in seedorf spot, wich is not his proper position on the pitch.
to put it in simple words, i agree with Sina

the goalkeeper situation. last year galliani renewed dida's contract..... now milan is paying for that decision. dida wasn't even able to find another team last year, when his contract was expiring and he was a free transfer.... now nobody will ever make an offer for dida (if nobody did it when he was free, who could do a bid now that he has a 5 millions euros contract :shock::shock??).

i know i already said it a thousand times...... but i'll repeat myself: amelia is still playing for livorno

This all makes a lot of sense to me, some of it is telling me more about Milan and educational and some of it is what I thought from what I have known.

when u play counters, a lone striker is the wisest solution. with just 1 man upfront, the opponent's cbs are prone to move foward the defensive line. and that's the best way to let inzaghi do his job. with 2 men upfront, the cbs are more careful and it becomes harder for inzaghi to find those "channels" u're talking about.
moreover inzaghi is a trezeguet-like player. he can't play with another striker beside him, because he always looks for each ball (his history testifies it).
once an italian journalist wrote something very true and funny "inzaghi always anticipates... he anticipates the cbs, he anticipates the ball, he also anticipates his teammates :lol:."
that's very true. there's no chance for gila to get a ball, when he plays beside inzaghi.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Maybe culturally there is difference of opinion here. In England we would generally, or rather the coaches/managers here would generally never play a player like Inzaghi as a lone front man. We would be looking for entirely different abilities in this position and we would use such a player very differently.

But if you are telling me that he is used successfully in such a role in seria a then I take your word for it and will have to watch for this differing situation more with future games.

I understand what you mean about Inzaghi maybe getting in the way of fellow players if placed up front with another striker. In England we have seen this sometimes when having two poachers and them going for the same ball or the same space etc. But what would happen in England would be that Inzaghi would get physically battered by some of our cbs and have less protection. We would be more inclined to play a bigger player to set him up with chances…like the way Heskey has played alongside Michael Owen. The classic big and little man to compliment one another. Another option would be to play three up front and play Inzaghi as the central player. Certainly in England the concern would be that if the ball was played up to him it would not stick, that he would lose posession to easily to physical challenges or he would be caught offside too often.

None of what I am saying makes what you have said wrong at all of course because Inzaghi is in Italy and not England. It is just an explanation for why I would think differently, have a differing school of thought given the background of where I have watched most of my football. I will have to see more and see how Inzaghi and players like him can play this role in seria a, given the difference in the tactics, the play and the protection given to the players by the referees.

gettin back to the topic....
inzaghi perfectly fits milan's gameplan, gila doesn't. but inzaghi can't be milan's main striker, coz he can't play each week. gila must be milan's main striker. so it's up to ancelotti to find a gameplan good for gila.

Makes sense, different players and it cannot be a one size fits all solution.

milan is not an awful team (as many journalists wrote theese days), but they have some problems (the same problems they had last season). they will still have a good season imo (they won't win the scudetto, but they will fight for it), but they hav to solve their problems soon, because milan's old generation is saying goodbye..... and we still didn't see milan's new generation (as there isn't any milan's new generation, at the moment).

Yes I have been thinking this in terms of the age of the players for the last two years. On their day, with their best 11 they are a match for anyon in the world and can be superb, but you are right about the problems and the need to start to rectify matters.

Still lots of very, good players...

Any predications on tonights match in terms of line up and scorline?

 

[tobi]

Re: Serie A Thread

Who else thinks that Lo Zio should write for 442 magazine or World Football magazine?

He reminds of Gabriele Marcotti.

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

Who else thinks that Lo Zio should write for 442 magazine or World Football magazine?

He reminds of Gabriele Marcotti.

Don't tell him that, you'll give him ideas :lol:

No he writes very well of course.

Tobi why do you now have a woman in your avatar and who is she?

P.S

I have had to settle with Chelsea Valencia as I do not have the channel to play Celtic Milan still I am watching a pretty good game so I shouldn't complain.

 

[gib2504]

Re: Serie A Thread

Gourcuff has just came on for Milan, hope he doesn't do good lol still 0-0

 

[juveboy]

Re: Serie A Thread

DIDA:lmao:

 

[gib2504]

Re: Serie A Thread

DIDA:lmao:

What a disgrace, acting like a bloody fool, the guy tapped him in the face he tried to chase him, realised he wasn't gonna catch him and went down like a sack of shit, disgraceful, if any kind of ban happens because of the way Dida has gone down I will be very very annoyed.

 

[tobi]

Re: Serie A Thread

Don't tell him that, you'll give him ideas :lol:

No he writes very well of course.

Tobi why do you now have a woman in your avatar and who is she?

P.S

I have had to settle with Chelsea Valencia as I do not have the channel to play Celtic Milan still I am watching a pretty good game so I shouldn't complain.

I changed my avatar because I finally got round to watching the season 2 finale of WEEDS and everytime I watch the show I get reminded of how lovely she is. Her name is Mary Louise Parker.

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

Dida was TERRRIBLE and at fault for BOTH goals, as for the thing at the end....pathetic.

I think Celtic should get a nominal fine for the fan getting on the pitch and Dida should be banned from the next CL game for being shameful.

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread

I'm not quite sure what happened still. He realizes that we need a goal and theres not much time left.....

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

Who else thinks that Lo Zio should write for 442 magazine or World Football magazine?

He reminds of Gabriele Marcotti.

wow! that's a great compliment, thanks Tobi :oops:

People have said the very same thing about our fierce rivals Liverpool. To be fair to Liverpool and Milan, they still did win the CL and it is a massive feat and takes some doing. Maybe it is not a test of a team like the league is being a cup, but it is still a big test and you have to play a certain quality on given mach days to win it. I do not doubt anything you are saying about Milan’s drawbacks, I am sure you are right and whilst I do not think winning the CL should be used to paper over the cracks, it is still a great achievement for Milan, the players and Anceloti......

.....I guess it depends upon where you derive your definition from. Of course the CL does not show consistency in the same way as the league, neither does it require the same attacking impetus, to go for the win every game and that is a major key to winning a league title. But in a cup and in the CL you do have to be very clever in terms of tactics and balance of your team, there is a certain balance and disposition that suits certain styles of play, that allows maybe a less than great league side to be a great cup side etc.....

.....In terms of Europe it depends upon what your criteria is for judging Milan. I the criteria is results then clearly Milan were the best team in Europe last year, if it is the style of the football or something more subjective then it is open to more interpretation. You are not wrong in what you are saying, but then again neither is someone who would disagree with you as you will have differing criteria that make for differing judgments.

absolutely agree with u Van (with everything u wrote, especially the bolded part . The CL is still a very tough competition and milan deserves credit for their international achievements.
To win single match competition (in or out competitions) it takes to be cool, to show some maturity. Theese kind of competitions require an ability to read the flow of the game, u have to detect the key moments of the game, to understand when u have to push and when u have to cover, because there's no room for mistakes.

but if u look at milan's path in the last CL u'll notice that they weren't that great neither in the cup. They somehow managed to reach the final phase and had just 3 great games (the 2nd leg against bayern in munich and the 2 games with man utd).
they were also pretty good in the final match, but we have to admit they were also very lucky. If inzaghi wouldn't have scored at the end of the first half, the match could have ended differently. i didn't like so much rafa's gameplan that day, but in the first 30 minutes of the game Liverpool was awesome and the reds totally owned milan.

anyway just 3 big games aren't enough to express a reliable judgement about a whole season. Milan had some great moments last season, and they deserve some credits for that, but if we look at their overall performances during the whole season (in serie a and in CL) well, they showed the same weak points they're showing at the moment.

Maybe culturally there is difference of opinion here. In England we would generally, or rather the coaches/managers here would generally never play a player like Inzaghi as a lone front man. We would be looking for entirely different abilities in this position and we would use such a player very differently.

exactly!
that's one of the most evident cultural difference between the english and the italian football school.

english football is traditionally based on the 4-4-2 (i'm not talking about the current situation, i'm talking about what english football showed in the last 50 years). no playmakers, great work on the sidelines (wich means a lot of crosses), the midfield line moving along the pitch continuosly, as a wave. playing this football, having just 1 foward it's impossible; because if there's just one player upfront, it will be an easy game for the cbs to nullify the opponent's crosses (they don't even have to look at the ball, they just have to set up a man coverage on the only foward). Actually it might even coming handy having 2 tall fowards (many english teams played with 2 "torri"... in italy this never happened).

in italy instead the situation is pretty different... because our foootbal history is different.
The italian cb school has always been a benchmark in europe. the technical standard and the tactical qualification of our cbs has always been great (till 20 years ago we were in a class by ourselves.... nowadays the gap between our defenders ant the rest of the world is much more slight, but still there is). Eluding our defences has always been the ultimate challenge for our coaches.

Moreover the italian football school has a very big weak point in the "side players". till 15 years ago, we badly snubbed the sides of the pitch (we weren't use to play on the sides)... and if u don't work also on the sidelines, it becomes even easier for the cbs to protect the box (once again, i'm not talking about the current situation, i'm talking about the italian football history).

the coup de grace to our attacks finally came when the zone coverage tactic was born. attacking the opponent's box became almost impossible. with the zone coverage tactic, one of the sidebacks became some sort of a "part time cb", as when one sideback used to push, the other one used to stay back, creating a 3 men terrific defensive line.
the game was always stuck at the midfield, with our defences closing every channel and our midfield playing just in the centre of the pitch (as i told u we used to snub the sidelines those days).
that was one of the darkest moments for the italian football. despite our great technical and tactical quality, the matches were really poor, with 2 teams nullifying each others (actually it was precisely our tactical knowledge the reason of our poor football.... quite ironic).

our coaches then had to find out a way to penetrate the opponent's defences. they needed one player who could elude the coverage: a new role was borning... the advanced midfielder. A player who used to play among the 2 lines, free from the opponents midfielders coverage and from the defensive line coverage. His duty was to push on the defensive line, attracting one of the defenders; then as soon as one cb left his position in the defensive line, the advanced midfielder had to try a trough ball headed in the hole left by the cb, giving to the only foward a chance to find a channel, to break the defensive line.

to put it in simple words, one of our fowards (the sp, who is usually more little and more technical) made 3 step backwards and turned into an advanced midfielder.
a new game system was born: the 4-4-1-1.
then this formation was studied by our coaches and had an evolution that brought to the 4-2-3-1, the 4-3-1-2, the 3-2-3-1...etc...

thats how the one man attack was born.

as u can see our differences come from our different history, from the different paths we followed.

talking about the tall foward-little sp attacking line, yes, that's a classic and almost every football school knows it; just look at my palermo offence; now it's amauri-miccoli, last year was amauri-di michele, before was toni-brienza.

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

english football is traditionally based on the 4-4-2 (i'm not talking about the current situation, i'm talking about what english football showed in the last 50 years). no playmakers, great work on the sidelines (wich means a lot of crosses), the midfield line moving along the pitch continuosly, as a wave. playing this football, having just 1 foward it's impossible; because if there's just one player upfront, it will be an easy game for the cbs to nullify the opponent's crosses (they don't even have to look at the ball, they just have to set up a man coverage on the only foward). Actually it might even coming handy having 2 tall fowards (many english teams played with 2 "torri"... in italy this never happened).
.

Prior to the 1950s and Brazil’s use of the 4-4-2, football in England was actually much more attacking with more forward players, 4-2-4 was quite common even.

Brazil were supposed to have given the English the 4-4-2, but unless you consider the role of given players the actual labels such as 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 etc mean very little as I am sure you will agree. Brazil used the formation described as 4-4-2 with full backs seen and used as attacking players and they have had a tendency to have at least on midfielder drop off and play deep in a covering role. This has tended to mean the use of either attacking midfielder ala Kaka and Ronaldinho ala world cup 2002 or narrower midfielders with the space for overlapping attacks left to the wider full backs.

In England right up until the 1980s at least and for many clubs beyond that and even to this day the full back role has been primary a defensive role. Full backs were supposed to be good defenders in the English game and if they could produce anything going forward then that was a bonus….hence players like Lee Dixon, Stuart Pearce even. The latter player had a decent left peg but his main job was in taking the ball the man and everything and dumping them on the sideline (you could do that in English football a few years back as long as you got the ball first taking the man out was allowed).

With the attitude of more defensive players in full back roles and the onus on defense rather than attack this has in the past lend to a much greater propensity to use side midfielders as mainly attacking wide players, to use a flat four in midfield as you mention. It has meant that dribbling on/down the wings and crosses has been a key part of the English game. This in turn has led to the far more common use of two strikers as you mention, to take advantage of the often used wide men. If fullbacks had been used more as attackers in the English game (not much difference in Brazil from wingback and fullback) then we would have seen a narrower midfield game, less attacking side midfielders and an evolution of the game more in line with that of Italian football. At least that is what I suspect (though I might be wrong).

When looking at Cicinho, Carlos, Alves you can see these are simply a million miles away from players like Dixon, Pearce, Neville etc.


The game has changed of course and the lack of boundries in the European game and access to foreign coaches and players has altered the view of how differing roles within systems can be utilized. A Cole used to play a quite attacking game at Arsenal with overlaps with Pires, allowing Arsenal to often have Pires come inside and attack centrally…that is what A Cole and his role allowed. Mica Richards when played as a right sided fullback also has much more license to push forward and the view in England now is that a fullback can no longer simply be a good defender. I am not saying that they are necessarily always used in a differing way, sometimes the role is exactly as it has been and traditional, but then again often is not and versatility is key. Teams like Man Utd, Arsenal etc have and some of their foreign players have changed how a fullback is viewed and what role he should or can take up…

The one formation that the England team is still unhappy with is the 4-4-2 diamond. At club level it has been used with and without foreign players, but an all England set-up via the national team is not comfortable with it.

The old traditional English tall center forward is rarely seen in the premiership these days. Crouch is a bit of a throw back to days past in all honesty. You almost never see two tall strong centre forwards, that is very rare to see.

The big man little man combination is used in varying ways. It is used high up the pitch in the penalty box where both players are forwards, where the prime job of the big man is to get knock downs for the little guy to put away. This is clearly seen with Owen and Heskey. We also now see less traditional English uses quite often. We see the split striker used, behind a tough front man or at least a player that leads the line and looks for the ball over the top. Englands preferred front partnership is Owen Rooney where Rooney players as a split striker. Owen is the man to lead the line and look for the ball over the top and on the shoulder of the last man and Rooney is then able to find space in front of the defence and between the defence and midfield and from here use his technical ability and dribbling skill to run at the defence. This combination is not remotely traditional from an English point of view, having the split striker and a short light weight player leading the line.

As you can see then traditions have moved on, I am sure you know a lot of this from seeing the game for yourself. England has moved on as Italy has, we no longer simply see the employment of the Catenaccio in seria a as a “way” the “the way” to play.

That said once you get out of the top flight of footabll, you often see the same old tired tactics (or lack of them), traditional roles etc

What is very different from seria a and what I was getting at in relation to Inzaghi is that he would not be used as a lone frontman in the English league because of his slight build. I think that would make such a use unlikely. In the EPL you still do not get the protection that you do in other leagues and the physicality of the league is different and Inzaghi would take a bit too much punishment from centre back in the English league. Also when one player is played up front alone in the EPL and it is done these days, the English use of this is a different role. The EPL coaches tend to use a Drogba or Toni style player as a lone front man. They like someone who can hold the ball up and relieve pressure and allow the midfield to catch up with play, a player who can withstand physical challenges who does not get caught offside to often with quick runs and someone good in the air to score from crosses and to get knock downs for midfield players coming through.

My original statement about Inzaghi failed to understand the Italian school of though and differing role of the front man in seria a, in your game. I recognized this error after I made the post. I can see how in a less physical league, with greater protection, with less emphasis on crossing etc, I can see how it things can be very different.

I still need to watch more to get a greater understanding of your game and the differing roles players take on within the systems of play.

I will take a look at the rest of your mail later on…I have to go out for a while…

I hope this has not been to dull to read Haha

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

Prior to the 1950s......

that's why i wrote "in the last 50 years..."
i can't really talk about english football prior the '50s, and many things u wrote are new to me, so thank u Van, really nice post
talking about the things u wrote i already knew instead, i absolutely agree with u

anyway i was just trying to give a shallow idea of the main differences between the 2 schools. it's impossible to sum 50 years history in a few words and many things i wrote would deserve a deeper analisys... but it would take too much time... and pages :mrgreen:

As you can see then traditions have moved on, I am sure you know a lot of this from seeing the game for yourself. England has moved on as Italy has, we no longer simply see the employment of the Catenaccio in seria a as a “way” the “the way” to play.

of course. Today football is much more "globalised" and also the principal game systems names became nothing more than empty cases. Saying that a team plays with a 4-4-2 today doesn't mean anything, because there are hundreds of different interpretations of the 4-4-2 and each 4-4-2 is different because the interpreters (the players) and the orchestra director (the coach) are different.

What is very different from seria a and what I was getting at in relation to Inzaghi is that he would not be used as a lone frontman in the English league because of his slight build. I think that would make such a use unlikely. In the EPL you still do not get the protection that you do in other leagues and the physicality of the league is different and Inzaghi would take a bit too much punishment from centre back in the English league. Also when one player is played up front alone in the EPL and it is done these days, the English use of this is a different role. The EPL coaches tend to use a Drogba or Toni style player as a lone front man. They like someone who can hold the ball up and relieve pressure and allow the midfield to catch up with play, a player who can withstand physical challenges who does not get caught offside to often with quick runs and someone good in the air to score from crosses and to get knock downs for midfield players coming through.

My original statement about Inzaghi failed to understand the Italian school of though and differing role of the front man in seria a, in your game. I recognized this error after I made the post. I can see how in a less physical league, with greater protection, with less emphasis on crossing etc, I can see how it things can be very different.

well, that's true in a measure, but the difference is slighter than u might think.
in fact inzaghi represent something unique in italy too.
our football nowadays is very different from 20, 30 years ago. we went trough many tactical revolutions, and today u can see the 20 teams serie a is composed by, playing in 20 different ways, with 20 different game systems, formations and gameplans (that's one of the most beautiful things in serie a today: the tactical variety).
but, as i said, inzaghi is something unique, and taking a look at our teams line ups, u'll notice that almost all of them usually play with (at least) 2 fowards (a tall fw and a short fast sp)... look at here:
atalanta: zampagna - muslimovic
cagliari: matri - acquafresca
empoli: saudati - pozzi
genoa: di vaio - borriello
inter: ibra - crespo\suazo\cruz\adriano
juve: trezegol - del piero
lazio: rocchi - pandev
livorno: tristan - tavano
napoli: zalayeta - lavezzi
palermo: amauri - miccoli
parma: corradi - reginaldo
samp: bonazzoli - montella
siena: corvia - chiesa
torino: ventola - recoba\rosina
udinese: quagliarella - di natale

as u can see the big man - little man is the main theme in italy too.

moreover we also developed a very good sideline game. just consider Giampaolo's cagliari, rossi's lazio, novellino's samp (last season), mazzarri's reggina (last season) or del neri's chievo (a couple of seasons ago).

finally our cbs are usually too good to allow a single player to take charge of the responsability on an entire offensive line just by himself.

but inzaghi is something special. despite is phisique, he can still handle an entire defensive line just by himself, no matter how good or strong the opponent's cbs are; afterall there must be a reason if such a weird striker, who (apparently) hasn't any specifical ability (he's not a great dribbler, he's not a great ball holder, he has not a terrific shot, neither a great heading..) became one of the best european scorers of all time.

infact he has some qualilties. fist of all, he has an amazing vision of the goal line, he can score from almost everywhere, even whithout looking at the net.
he has an amazing ability in anticipating the game; he always starts running before his direct opponent, because he can "see" what is going to happen on the pitch, where the ball is going to be, before his opponent realizes it (also rooney and villa have this ability, despite they're very different fowards).

and finally he often uses a "trick" to elude the cbs coverage.
when he's waiting the ball (with his back oriented towards the net) he makes a couple of steps backwards, till he can touch the cb's body. then he litterally leans on the cb's body. when this happens the cb is screwed.... he can't do anything anymore.
inzaghi waits for the ball, and when it arrives to him he can easily turn around the cb, using his body as a lever, and shoot.
the cb has not a clear vision of what is happening, coz inzaghi is just ahead of him;
he can't intercept the pass because he's just behind inzaghi;
he can't push him, coz it would be a penalty;
he can't make a step backwards, coz inzaghi (who is leant on him) would fall on the ground, and it would be a penalty.

that's a terrific technique, coz it allows u to elude every cb's coverage (the bigger they are, the easily it is for inzaghi to "feel" their bodies with his back). there's just one way to avoid it. u have to try to cover inzaghi staying far from him... at least 3 steps..... but gifting 3 steps space to inzaghi is a suicide move, so....:mrgreen:

inzaghi scored many goals this way, against italian, german, spanish, english defences. i'm pretty sure if u'll do a search on youtube, u'll find at least one of theese goals.

You almost never see two tall strong centre forwards, that is very rare to see.

yep, actually by saying "it happened many times" i meant to say 10, 15 times in the last 50 years.... while in italy it never happened.... btw 10\15 times isn't "many times", you're right, i just didn't express myself properly

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

that's why i wrote "in the last 50 years..."
i can't really talk about english football prior the '50s,

And you were correct, I did not mean to suggest you were not I was just offering a reference on what went before and how we ended up with 4-4-2 and how our use of it differed from Brazil.

and many things u wrote are new to me, so thank u Van, really nice post
talking about the things u wrote i already knew instead, i absolutely agree with u

Thanks for the kind words.

anyway i was just trying to give a shallow idea of the main differences between the 2 schools. it's impossible to sum 50 years history in a few words and many things i wrote would deserve a deeper analisys... but it would take too much time... and pages :mrgreen:

It is nice to read your posts, the comments are almost always justified and intelligently made. I have appreciated your posts detailing Roma recently especially.

I said earlier that I would comment when I came back on the rest of your post. I am not sure I useful it would be to do so. You have given me good detail that I did not know prior and covered the issue well that I already knew. Good post.

of course. Today football is much more "globalised" and also the principal game systems names became nothing more than empty cases. Saying that a team plays with a 4-4-2 today doesn't mean anything, because there are hundreds of different interpretations of the 4-4-2 and each 4-4-2 is different because the interpreters (the players) and the orchestra director (the coach) are different.

This is one point I was trying to put across, but it is like a handshake, I was not educating you on the point just offering agreement because I knew the point is something you well understood.

Too many football fans still talk of the system as though the numbers give you a rigid way of play or of a 100% type of game, but that is of course complete rubbish.

A few years ago in England I heard commentators suggesting to one another that the 4-4-2 was dead as an international system of play because in a particular Euro championship a lot of teams were employing a 3-5-2 system. The commentators were suggesting that 4-4-2 was now maybe found to be flawed because you couldn’t control the midfield again such teams employing the extra man.

I thought how truly stupid are these people!!

First of all the players, play on the pitch not on paper. That the system might suggest one less player in midfield on paper but that means nothing in practice. I was thinking that 4-4-2 as is not really one system at all, as there as many ways of playing it etc. I was thinking equally 3-5-2 can be played many ways, right and wrong for differing situations. I was thinking that sometimes tactics can be to press home differing advantages, midfield control, quick counters etc and that always the idea of an extra man does not mean success. I was thinking that how well the players pass the ball, how well they play and execute the play and tactics is just as key as the tactics themselves etc…

I know you will be on my wave length and agree with me on this, anyone who truly understands football knows these fundamentals.

A example of th number meaning nothing came in a very bad away game that Everton played at Middlesboro in the F.A about 5 years ago….I do not remember the actual date but it was a dark day to support Everton.

The coach sent out Everton supposedly to play 3-5-2 and that is what was given as the formation on the television. Everton played the game with two defensive fullbacks supposedly in midfield in the wide midfield positions. Of course there natural tendency was to funnel back towards their own traditional positions at full back. So the name of the formation might have been 3-5-2, but in effect it was 5-3-2. We had a left back at right mid who became a right back, a left back at left mid who became a left back….we had an attacking mid that we played in a def mid role who dribbled the ball in our own half causing danger for us, who never dribbled where it could hurt the opposition…and we had two defensive mids in semi attacking mid roles as part of the central three who could not retain possession. Add to all this we had two short centre forwards who had no supply from wide positions apart from deep wide positions which meant long inaccurate passing to them in the air and we had two defensive mids dropping deep and getting in the way of the defensive mid who was dribbling in bad positions.

We were hammered, we had no control of the ball and the system was never 3-5-2 despite the captions saying otherwise. Yet when you talked to people after the game they said that we played badly because 3-5-2 was a bad system….hilariously sad if you understand me!!

Formations on paper mean little, it is the true formation on the pitch and the roles and actions on the pitch within the formations and the ability and the talent of the players on the pitch in enact the tactics of the coach. In that respect an orchestra is a very good metaphor for what is required, it is a very nice way to put it.

well, that's true in a measure, but the difference is slighter than u might think.
in fact inzaghi represent something unique in italy too.
our football nowadays is very different from 20, 30 years ago. we went trough many tactical revolutions, and today u can see the 20 teams serie a is composed by, playing in 20 different ways, with 20 different game systems, formations and gameplans (that's one of the most beautiful things in serie a today: the tactical variety).
but, as i said, inzaghi is something unique, and taking a look at our teams line ups, u'll notice that almost all of them usually play with (at least) 2 fowards (a tall fw and a short fast sp)... look at here:
atalanta: zampagna - muslimovic
cagliari: matri - acquafresca
empoli: saudati - pozzi
genoa: di vaio - borriello
inter: ibra - crespo\suazo\cruz\adriano
juve: trezegol - del piero
lazio: rocchi - pandev
livorno: tristan - tavano
napoli: zalayeta - lavezzi
palermo: amauri - miccoli
parma: corradi - reginaldo
samp: bonazzoli - montella
siena: corvia - chiesa
torino: ventola - recoba\rosina
udinese: quagliarella - di natale

as u can see the big man - little man is the main theme in italy too.

But I still feel that the tactics are still more versatile in Italy, certainly more teams play more flexibly. Outside of the top teams in England there is still a lot of inflexibility and somewhat rigid use of the flat 4-4-2 in the traditional English sense…with the key being the players much more so that tactical maneuvers.

I think that there is probably more use of the split striker still in seria a as well.

On the Inzaghi note once more. The physicality was still part of the equation and thinking that I rectified myself on. In the English league he would not be strong enough to play as a lone striker, even though he is strong enough to do this in seria a. This is nothing to do with some daft idea of players being tougher in England, it is to do with what referees will allow here and the protection then would not give him. Inzaghi has good technique and I see where you are coming from, but in England the coaches would be less likely to understand his use as a lone striker and they would be worried about him getting hammered by CBs….treatment that opposing CBs would like to do to him in seria a, but are not allowed…

moreover we also developed a very good sideline game. just consider Giampaolo's cagliari, rossi's lazio, novellino's samp (last season), mazzarri's reggina (last season) or del neri's chievo (a couple of seasons ago).

You are a mile ahead of me here. My knowledge of seria a is limited and I need to expand on what I know by taking in more games and gathering more experience of the Italian game.

finally our cbs are usually too good to allow a single player to take charge of the responsability on an entire offensive line just by himself.

And you have many fine exponents of the game in this position. Nesta has been one of the best CBs of all time for me as were Baresi, Canavaro, Montero, Scirea (all totally brilliant in different ways)….you might laugh I me including Montero in there I don’t know. My view of seria a is not as accurate, I have been looking in through frosted glass for a while. I want to get a better view of it now than before.

but inzaghi is something special. despite is phisique, he can still handle an entire defensive line just by himself, no matter how good or strong the opponent's cbs are; afterall there must be a reason if such a weird striker, who (apparently) hasn't any specifical ability (he's not a great dribbler, he's not a great ball holder, he has not a terrific shot, neither a great heading..) became one of the best european scorers of all time.

infact he has some qualilties. fist of all, he has an amazing vision of the goal line, he can score from almost everywhere, even whithout looking at the net.
he has an amazing ability in anticipating the game; he always starts running before his direct opponent, because he can "see" what is going to happen on the pitch, where the ball is going to be, before his opponent realizes it (also rooney and villa have this ability, despite they're very different fowards).

and finally he often uses a "trick" to elude the cbs coverage.

I have always rated Inzaghi. Some people have moaned about the number of times he is caught offside, but as a defender he must have been a nightmare to play against over the years because unless you had your eye on him, you would think where is he now is he slipping into space is he turning me etc. And yes he knows where the goal is, no doubt about that, many chances stem from his quick movement and thinking..

when he's waiting the ball (with his back oriented towards the net) he makes a couple of steps backwards, till he can touch the cb's body. then he litterally leans on the cb's body. when this happens the cb is screwed.... he can't do anything anymore.
inzaghi waits for the ball, and when it arrives to him he can easily turn around the cb, using his body as a lever, and shoot.
the cb has not a clear vision of what is happening, coz inzaghi is just ahead of him;
he can't intercept the pass because he's just behind inzaghi;
he can't push him, coz it would be a penalty;
he can't make a step backwards, coz inzaghi (who is leant on him) would fall on the ground, and it would be a penalty.

that's a terrific technique, coz it allows u to elude every cb's coverage (the bigger they are, the easily it is for inzaghi to "feel" their bodies with his back). there's just one way to avoid it. u have to try to cover inzaghi staying far from him... at least 3 steps..... but gifting 3 steps space to inzaghi is a suicide move, so....:mrgreen:

inzaghi scored many goals this way, against italian, german, spanish, english defences. i'm pretty sure if u'll do a search on youtube, u'll find at least one of theese goals.

I have never doubted his ability. My comments relate to how the English coaches view the use of a front man and what they want from one, which differs form the Italian game. The tendency to cross the ball more which wouldn’t suit his game and the fact that in England….not in Europe with an Italian side playing against an English side….he would not get protected well enough to play that role…he would get badly fouled and whacked about the pitch until he did not want to play…

None of the above takes anything away from Inzaghi, it is just why he wouldn’t be a fit as a lone striker in the England…..But like I said all that is irrelevant apart from being a side note and an explanation on my thinking because Inzaghi is in seria a and not the EPL and I need to see more of his play as a lone striker in the Italian game….I need to see more seria a games period.

On reference to tall forwards and not seeing two on them played that often in the EPL you said;

yep, actually by saying "it happened many times" i meant to say 10, 15 times in the last 50 years.... while in italy it never happened.... btw 10\15 times isn't "many times", you're right, i just didn't express myself properly

No what you said was perfectly ok, I was just making my own point, not correcting you I knew what you meant.