Re: Serie A Thread
That's an interesting thought and I can see your friends point completely. I guess its just a cultural thing and different ways of looking at football. I wouldn't say only the individual goals are cared about in England, often in 'Goal of the Month' on Match of the Day there are great team goals included. People love Arsenal's slick, one-touch, team moves that end in a goal more than Frank Lampard's 25 yard smashes for example.
sorry, Jumberto, i hadn't the time to reply to u last time... i'll do it now
actually my friend's one was a bit of a cheap shot. i mean he wasn't far from being true, but u can't just spit on any other european league just because they don't defend well; neither u can't generalize, by saying that every italian fan will be more "educated" about football.
our (italian) media are sure a big treasure, and they're a great factor in raising the italian guys football knowledge level..... but i also know many italians who have no idea what football is about...... exactly as i knew many european, asian and american guys who know football much more than me.
anyway Jumberto, u're right; it's a cultural thing, a different approach to football. and that's my opinion about it......
in italy the defensive phase of the game is something sophisticated and sober in the same time. the players are (of course) always the most important part of the game.... but when it's about defending,
italians don't ever talk about "single players", they always talk about a "branch" of the team; the defensive line.
people usually (at least those who know football) talk about attacking line, midfielders line, defensive line. But actually the word "line" (or section or branch or sector) perfectly fits just the defense.
the expression "
attacking line" is ususally quite unappropriate, because it postulates 4 players (at least) attacking togheter, acting upon precises schemes. Most of the teams in europe attack with 4 players, but never on the same time, they usually don't push togheter, and, most important, they don't act upon a precise scheme. the attackers are usually much more free from the coach directives, than the defenders. usually fowards, wings and advanced midfielders have much more freedom than cbs, sidebacks and defensive midfielders...... so, most of the time we can't really talk about an "attacking line", because there isn't an "attacking phase" of the game.
talking about the
midfielders line might be quite unappropriate too, coz, the evolution of the tactics changed the concept of the midfield. today we can't see a diamond midfield, a midfield with 2 sidebacks almost on the midfield line (pushing) and 2 wings cutting inside, or a midfield with 2 guys playing behind the midfield line, protecting the defense or doing the play-by-play.
so, most of the times also the expression "midfielders line" is wrong.
talking about the defense instead, the situation is pretty different..... at least here in italy. infact unlike what happens in the other european countries
, in italy the defenders always coordinate their movements; they act like a little army, well organised and disposed.
u won't ever see 2 sidebacks pushing on the same time in italy (... well actually roma does it sometimes... but it's something unintentional, as each time it happens Spalletti starts yelling at his players :mrgreen
.
when one sideback starts pushing, the defensive line (the 2 cbs and the remaining sideback) slides on the left or on the right, to recover the hole left by the pushing sideback.
u won't ever see a cb going on 1 on 1 versus an attacker. Sometimes a cb leaves his spot in the "imaginary defensive axis" to go marking an opponent; it might look like a 1 on 1 situation..... but it isn't; in fact if u look at the other cb (or at one of the sidebacks) u'll notice he's harmonizing his position with the ball current position (not the other cb's position, neither the opponent attacking player's position... the ball position).
that's a fake 1 on 1.
u will always see the defensive line making the appropriate adjustements to cover the holes left by those players who are pushing foward.
just take a look at van buyten's position, when lucio starts pushing...... or look at Mertesacker's position, when naldo moves foward...... or at thuram's or metzelder's position, when puyol and cannavaro try to anticipate the opponent foward.........
then look at what kaladze, cordoba, rinaudo, mexes, vanigli, couto, cribari, dainelli, domizzi, sala, terlizzi do, when their teamates move foward. that's the difference between the italian school and the others european schools.
our defenders never play as a "lone man" they always act togheter, they always react to their teammates movements.
in spain, germany, england and france u will see quite often a "3 (attackers) versus 3 (defenders) situation", or a "2 vs 2" situation, or a "4 vs 4 situation"..... in italy it never happens.
defending with as many players as the upcoming attackers is pretty dangerous, and it's a tactical mistake; because the attackers are running (not walking) towards the box and this gives them a big advantage, when they have to dribble their opponents.
that's why the defensive axis must always be composed by 3 men (when the upcoming attackers are 2) or 4 men (when the upcoming attackers are 3).
otherwise it will be pretty easy for the opponents to past the defensive line. this will (usually) bring to many scoring chances.
in italy this doesn't happen, coz
our defenders always talk to each others, they coordinate their movements and their position on each action. and this (usually) brings to less scoring chances.
that's why english, spanish, german guys often find "boring" our football (because there aren't many scoring chances)..... and that's also the reason why italians (usually) find "boring" english, spanish, or german football (because most of the scoring chances in those leagues are due to huge defensive mistakes).
no need to say both of them are wrong; english, spanish and german football aren't worse than italian football, just coz of their different approach to the game... they're just different.
and italian football isn't boring.... it's sophisticated
that friend who pointed out that statement about the higher tactical standard of the italian league was right. and he's right also when he says that it's hard to appreciate italian football... it takes to have a deep knowledge of the game.
but he's clearely wrong when he says that the italian league is better than the others just coz of our sophisticated tactical imprinting.
my friend usually makes a funny (and wrong, imo) comparison. he says "
if u watch kasparov and karpov playing chess, u might be bored, because they're great, and they can anticipate their opponent moves; they don't commit mistakes, so a non expert watcher could be bored by the game; but a real chess expert will be delighted by their ability.
the same way, a real expert will be bored by watching an amateur's chess match, because he will notice all their mistakes; while a non expert will be excited by the "action" ".
it this would be true (and if his comparison would be appropriate), then the italian teams should smash their european opponents every year, during the champions league..... but this doesn't happen.
as i wrote days ago, football isn't just about tactic... it's also about mentality.... and the other european leagues are better than us, talking about this.
we're really improving, talking about mentality, and in the past few years serie a made some great steps foward, talking about the courage of our coaches.... but there's still a lot of work to do in this direction.
getting back to the main theme of the post (the italian defenders), our tendency to consider the defensive line as an "axis", our habit to not to judge our cbs just by themselves, to evauate them as "a part of something bigger" allowed us to
diversify our defensive school.
if each cb has just to look at his opponents, if he doens't have to harmonize his position with his teammates,
then he must be able to do anything; covering, marking, anticipating, etc...
but if we consider the defensive line like a "one-body-army", then we can try to give some specific directives to each of the members of this army.
this brought us to develop different cbs school;
there are
standing cbs (stoppers), who take the lead of the defensive line, guide their teammates, have a dialogue with the goalkeeper (to find the most appropriate adjustements of the "axis") and cover those defenders who try to push foward.
Scirea, Burgnich, gentile, wierchowood, picchi are the most famous italian standing defenders.
there are
standing and pushing cbs, who don't anticipates the ball, wait for the opponent, but who try to push toward the midfield (carrying the ball with themselves), once they get the ball.
maldini, nesta, bergomi, facchetti, baresi are the most famous standing and pushing cbs (and it's not a coincidence if many of them used to play as sidebacks, before moving on the centre).
then there are
anticipating cbs, who always try to anticipate their opponents, by intercepting the passes. Cannavaro is probably the greatest intercepting cb of all times.
of course also in england, spain, germany and france u can appreciate some differences between the cbs..... but theese differences are really little if compared to the italians cb's differences.
i mean carvalho and terry or puyol and marquez are sure different cbs, but they're not as different as nesta and kaladze or cribari and stendardo, or barzagli and rinaudo.
to put it in simple words,
the level of specialization of the italian cbs is much higher.
cannavaro is quite a good example. he's by far the best anticipating cb in the world. but if u place him as a "
standing cb", then he's nothing more than a good cb.... sure not better than terry or thuram (who are standing cbs).
this situation brought our coaches to focus themselves in finding a good mix of cbs, looking for the best balance. For example, lining up 2 anticipating cbs is a suicide move. an anticipating cb has to play beside a standing cb, coz if he miss the ball, somebody has to cover the hole left by the anticipating cb.
just look at this action:
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=yMwrzLVbGRw
as u can see a "cannavaro" can be a great value added to a defensive line.... but a cannavaro-like player usually takes some risks.
in this action, he foresees where the ball is going and run toward that position to anticipate the opponent...... but by doing this, he also leaves a huge hole behind him.
so it's mostly important that a sideback or a defensive midfielder "predict" what cannavaro is up to do and run toward the hole he will leave in a few seconds; coz if cannavaro will miss the ball the situation will become pretty dangerous for italy.
that's what i mean when i talk about cbs specialization..... and by realising this u will also easily understand why cannavaro is playing so bad at real madrid
anyway this post is becoming really too long (even for my standards :mrgreen
, so it's better if i cut it here
, but he's still very young and unexperienced and yesterday he was playing off role. besides, when u see vieri running like a rhino towards your goalkeeper..... well it must be quite scaring :lol:
).
. he would really coming handy to ancelotti at the moment.
I can just wait until the day that I can legally drink Italian wine :lol:
