The Retro-PES Corner

MKC said:
As someone that loves graphic design and UIs in general, I could go on for a while talking about this.
I'm not really into the first few Winning Eleven installments, as they have that 90's arcade styled UI, it works, but to me that's about all it does.
PES3 is where I start to really like it, the style they went for, a sort of futuristic computer vibe from old films, is well made and consistent, the OST helps too.
PES4, PES5 and PES6 didn't really do it for me, it felt like they went back into the sort of style from early Winning Eleven installments, which works, but still.
PES2008 looked stunning, very sophisticated and with a color scheme that was easy on the eyes, also loved seeing the bench in the pause menu.
PES2009 and PES2010 went with a hip vibe, graffiti and stuff, not really my thing, some of my least favorite, though they functioned well enough.
PES2011 is the best one and it's not even close... elegant and sophisticated, without sacrificing functionality, it's just perfect and feels modern even today,
PES2012 was not as good to me, but the core was the same, so it's a close 2nd, not only in looks, but function, like the game plan screen introduced earlier.
PES2013 was fine, but a downgrade in every way, and it's here that menus started turning a bit more uninspired.
PES2014 doesn't look that bad, besides the main menu, but it runs so poorly that it left a bad taste in my mouth, I don't like looking at it.
PES2015 and PES2016 both had almost the same menu and it looked good, worked good, but nothing more than that.
PES2017 had huge square boxes with very little text, a lot of empty space, don't like it.
PES2018 is better, but still not good.
PES2019 had a bright look, big images that fit the whole box, a nice styling... I like it, just wish it was consistent, to many things still have square corners.
PES2020 and PES2021 were a downgrade in my eyes, the issues were still there, but the best parts were gone, I don't like it much.
eFootball2022 and eFootball2023 have decent ideas, but the execution hurts my eyes, especially the color scheme and fonts, it's such a waste...
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I love this post, I feel like the menu's don't get enough credit and scrutiny in the series. The sights and sounds of each menu experience in the series is just as special and as unique as the experience on the pitch in each version too.

PES 1-3 feel much of their time going for that near future look/techno look and feel with the synths and industrial electro that was present in most PS2 games and menu's in the early 2000's.

I loved the menu music that was produced in house around the period of PES 4 to 6, repetitive at the time; sure.... But now it's iconic amongst retro PES fans, The 7 minute "Edit Mode Funk Jam" is now synonymous with the heyday of ingame editing before the convenience of option files became more well known.

From then on they went on to use licensed music with less known underground bands which much like FIFA, introduced me to artists I'd never even heard of that I listen to now and once Konami's budget got bigger, they started incorporating mainstream pop music into it's menus'. Can't blame them but in someway, it's almost symbolic as the turning point in Konami selling out against the game's original core values and selling virtual currency and neglecting everything else about the game to the point the games image & commercial appeal was a priority and everything else was an afterthought.

And while we're on the subject of menus' and it's aesthetic, it's mind boggling how even when you want to make money and in order to do that, you've got to be eye catching, they've gone for the most offensive looking GUI of all time and it just makes no sense.

Anyway, my own 2 cents... Favourite menu is that classy PES 2011 menu. It's just so slick.
I also loved the 3D render menus' of PES 2015 to 2017, until they cluttered all of that up with an unnecessary tile for just about everything. What the absolute heck.
 
Marlon Anthony said:
I love this post, I feel like the menu's don't get enough credit and scrutiny in the series. The sights and sounds of each menu experience in the series is just as special and as unique as the experience on the pitch in each version too.
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Indeed, a UI is one of the most important parts of one's overall impression, not only in regard to looks, but also sound and fluidity. One of those things that you don't think about much if it's good, but will definitely bother you if it's bad, it's one of the things we remember and associate to the video games we play, especially since we'll always be navigating it between matches.
Marlon Anthony said:
I loved the menu music that was produced in house around the period of PES 4 to 6, repetitive at the time; sure.... But now it's iconic amongst retro PES fans, The 7 minute "Edit Mode Funk Jam" is now synonymous with the heyday of ingame editing before the convenience of option files became more well known.

From then on they went on to use licensed music with less known underground bands which much like FIFA, introduced me to artists I'd never even heard of that I listen to now and once Konami's budget got bigger, they started incorporating mainstream pop music into it's menus'. Can't blame them but in someway, it's almost symbolic as the turning point in Konami selling out against the game's original core values and selling virtual currency and neglecting everything else about the game to the point the games image & commercial appeal was a priority and everything else was an afterthought.
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Agreed 100% regarding the OSTs, I personally find PES3's to be genuinely fantastic, and would love for Konami to make some of those original tunes again, though today they'd probably mess it all up. Once the less famous licensed music started I loved it too, it introduced me to so much good stuff I wouldn't have listened to otherwise, so many fabulous artists... now there's a lot of famous stuff, nothing against it personally, but if I wanted that, I'd just go on Spotify and choose a Billboard Top 100 Playlist while playing instead.
Marlon Anthony said:
And while we're on the subject of menus' and it's aesthetic, it's mind boggling how even when you want to make money and in order to do that, you've got to be eye catching, they've gone for the most offensive looking GUI of all time and it just makes no sense.
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I don't get it either, no idea how anyone over at Konami looked at eFootball's UI and thought it was fine, it's an eye sore, even after updates to improve the colors, it needs a complete overhaul from the ground up. A few ideas are good actually, the planet on the team selection reminds me of FIFA WC 2006, FIFA WC 2010 and PES2011/PES2012, also love the menu for choosing kits, but the colors and fonts... it's all awful.
 
MKC said:
Indeed, a UI is one of the most important parts of one's overall impression, not only in regard to looks, but also sound and fluidity. One of those things that you don't think about much if it's good, but will definitely bother you if it's bad, it's one of the things we remember and associate to the video games we play, especially since we'll always be navigating it between matches.
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Yeah, there is nothing worse than an menu or a UI that is just a slog to trawl through. It's one of those things that can cause what's called "gamer death" or "gamer ick" where you're so exhausted and turned off by how long winded actually booting the game up and getting to gameplay is, that you end switching the whole game off once it actually begins.
MKC said:
Agreed 100% regarding the OSTs, I personally find PES3's to be genuinely fantastic, and would love for Konami to make some of those original tunes again, though today they'd probably mess it all up. Once the less famous licensed music started I loved it too, it introduced me to so much good stuff I wouldn't have listened to otherwise, so many fabulous artists... now there's a lot of famous stuff, nothing against it personally, but if I wanted that, I'd just go on Spotify and choose a Billboard Top 100 Playlist while playing instead.
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No i agree too. Pop/chart music has it's place and is great in it's own right, but I remember when PES 2018 to PES 2020 started using music i'd hear on the radio at work that i'd mute the music on the game when I went home.

It's be awesome if Konami made official soundtracks of their own produced ingame music back in the day like most video games had back then.
MKC said:
I don't get it either, no idea how anyone over at Konami looked at eFootball's UI and thought it was fine, it's an eye sore, even after updates to improve the colors, it needs a complete overhaul from the ground up. A few ideas are good actually, the planet on the team selection reminds me of FIFA WC 2006, FIFA WC 2010 and PES2011/PES2012, also love the menu for choosing kits, but the colors and fonts... it's all awful.
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It really is a mystery. Any other company you submit those menu concepts to as a graphics/menu designer and you'd be thrown out of the headquarters by 2 huge security guards for treating the commision like a mockery.

Going back to my previous gripe about sluggish menus, The 3D kit selection screen, the players arriving at the stadium in their suits and the panorama's of the stadium are stunning the 1st couple of times you see them, but they get old fast it becomes crippling forcing a player to hammer :x: just to get to the game plan screen. Really makes you appreciate the basic pre match hub found on the older PES games where kit, ball and stadium, gameplan and settings were all on one screen after you pick your teams.

You could be in a match on PES 5 & 6 from booting the game up within 2 minutes and even PES 2010 where they had no loading from game plan to entrance scene it flowed so well. Nowadays there's no such thing as a quick game of PES.
 
About tracks, the one that litterally makes me laugh (no joke) is when you score on PES 2 : it's too happy and WTF looking at the context.
Well i learned to live with it and now i like it matter of nostalgia but it's their "Japanese doing WTF things" side:


Sincerely, the guys doing song were under pills and not the one prescribed by your doctor...
 
after getting my PES 2017 to run in 1080 instead of the shitty 720 as is original, and DL a massive stadium pack, im defo going back to pes 2017 as my main game.
might look for some more mods too, one thing, i dont feel that its speedy as hell as it was on console.
its a keeper
 
Let me see, just taking into account menus/UI..

- PES 3 is really cool. I agree with @MKC, it has a nice "computer" late 90's early 2000's vibe about it.. Kinda like the Matrix. I like it. :) 8/10
- PES 4 is a pretty clean design.. Nothing special but functional nonetheless. 6/10
- PES 5 and 6 seem pretty similar to me. I think it's pretty functional and it has some nice background images. 6.5/10
- PES 2008 is a mixed bag. I really like the little details like more crowd animations, benches, team pictures, fan pictures. But I'm not a fan of the main menu. 7/10 (just because of the nice additions, if this had a different main menu it would definitely be higher up the list)
- PES 2009 is cool. I like the "graffitti" style, really reminds me of the "Indie Rock" vibe. Pretty streetwise and youthful look. Fun and different 8/10
- PES 2010 I love the whole "rotating circle" thing. It works really well for me. Nice background pictures too! My favorite menu in the series. 9/10
- PES 2011 has beautiful backgrounds and really polished finishes and effects. 8.5/10
- PES 2012 is my least played PES, if I remember correctly it was similar to 2011, but with downgrades. 7/10
- PES 2013 has some really nice touches, especially in ML I liked the shots of the team training with the manager. But I agree not as beautiful as 2011. 6.5/10
- PES 2014 is the most basic one. I like the idea of showing the player's faces, but otherwise way too basic. 5/10
- PES 2015 menu is functional and pretty. I like the animations in each box. But a bit cluttered. 7/10
- PES 2016 same as 2015. 7/10
- PES 2017 I like the screenshots they used for the different modes, nice and straightforward. This is my favorite PES but in terms of menus it's a downgrade from 2015 and 2016. 6/10
- PES 2018 Same as 2017 but with bigger pictures. 6.5/10
- PES 2019 Even though I really like this game as a whole with gameplay mods, it has a boring UI. What's up with the grey background, very very dull. 4.5/10
- PES 2020 and PES 2021 were an improvement in that the pictures covered the background. A bit too simplified though. 6/10
- efootball That overall aesthetic is just.. insanely ugly. 3/10
 
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vialli82 said:
About tracks, the one that litterally makes me laugh (no joke) is when you score on PES 2 : it's too happy and WTF looking at the context.
Well i learned to live with it and now i like it matter of nostalgia but it's their "Japanese doing WTF things" side:


Sincerely, the guys doing song were under pills and not the one prescribed by your doctor...
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hahahahaha I actually like the Konami songs.. This one seems very 90's kitsch which to me is a good thing.. :LOL: And a lot of the other songs sound like Japanese Samba, with some other really nice funky and jazzy beats. Count me in as a fan. :LOL:
rockstrongo said:
after getting my PES 2017 to run in 1080 instead of the shitty 720 as is original, and DL a massive stadium pack, im defo going back to pes 2017 as my main game.
might look for some more mods too, one thing, i dont feel that its speedy as hell as it was on console.
its a keeper
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Glad you're liking it.. With Smoke Patch it is my favorite of all-time! What a solid vanilla gameplay! Finally moving from Top Player to Superstar really did wonders for the fun factor in my experience. :TU:
 
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The intro movie and menu screen for PES 3/WE7 always hit a little different to the others for me. Winning Eleven 7, I believe, was my first PS2 game, and I thought the menu looked so futuristic and really captured that feeling of getting a brand-new console. It maintained the elements of the old ISS and early PES games, but much more polished, as you would expect from a more capable machine.

It also featured a really striking intro video. I usually don't get much out of these, apart from the classic FIFA 98 and World Cup 98 ones that really set the mood for the game. The music and immediate cut to dejected players and supporters, followed by the hard work continuing on the training ground and, ultimately, success, was a nice story arch.

It's also a wicked game, probably a top-3 all-time PES for me.

 
Silverdome94 said:
The intro movie and menu screen for PES 3/WE7 always hit a little different to the others for me. Winning Eleven 7, I believe, was my first PS2 game, and I thought the menu looked so futuristic and really captured that feeling of getting a brand-new console. It maintained the elements of the old ISS and early PES games, but much more polished, as you would expect from a more capable machine.

It also featured a really striking intro video. I usually don't get much out of these, apart from the classic FIFA 98 and World Cup 98 ones that really set the mood for the game. The music and immediate cut to dejected players and supporters, followed by the hard work continuing on the training ground and, ultimately, success, was a nice story arch.

It's also a wicked game, probably a top-3 all-time PES for me.

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This is what I call a well done, moody and atmospheric intro.. Made with passion and emotion. Very dramatic (like you say, story-driven with the players and fan reactions, the look on the supporters faces! the team struggling, training and improving) and captures the spirit of the early 2000's very well. Awesome music too! Love it. :LOVE:
 
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millossobek said:
Guys, watching the video @Silverdome94 posted.. I got a sudden urge to play PES 3! Downloaded @Sany023's World Patch installer (available here) and played a few exhibitions.. Really liked it!!

I was wondering though, if there were camera and speeder modules for kitserver or elsewhere? Thanks! :)
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For PES3 camera zoom and game speed is included in the Kitserver, you can find and edit them in the kserv config file.
 
I was about to post this in the PES 2014 thread, but I think this thread is way more active:

Have any of you played a long-term (at least one full season) Master League in PES 2014 PC/PS3? What have your experiences been like? I've been enjoying the actual on-pitch action, but have found the ML features a bit bare-bones. Even if I like to put quite a bit of imagination into my saves, I'd still like it if the ML was a little more detailed. Still, I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with it.
 
millossobek said:
I was about to post this in the PES 2014 thread, but I think this thread is way more active:

Have any of you played a long-term (at least one full season) Master League in PES 2014 PC/PS3? What have your experiences been like? I've been enjoying the actual on-pitch action, but have found the ML features a bit bare-bones. Even if I like to put quite a bit of imagination into my saves, I'd still like it if the ML was a little more detailed. Still, I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with it.
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I have a save in my PC, progressing slowly due to PC non accessible all time, due to my kids, but also when i play it, it's what you say. Great on the pitch, bare bones outside.

More feeling like playing a set of friendly matches. So after 1 or 2 matches, i quite feel full and loose the one more feeling that ML usually should give.
 
For me 2014 is the best example, for people accusing me about whistle and bells, when i talk about content and game modes.

The gameplay is ok, fully patched, but with bare bones content, it is like playing a good demo. You play one, you play 2, you play 3, them it becomes repeatetive. You need some type of content to keep you engaged. Or else you're just playing a good physics demo. Nothing more. For me at least.
 
I think too 2014 is way too empty to play long term. It's very appreciable and interesting gameplay wise, but all I can do when I take it up are friendlies. Every ML I started felt meaningless after not long.

Besides.. no raining is too much to accept for me. I know I'm probably alone in this, and to some it will sound weird, but it always has been a major deal breaker, personally.. a football world where it never rains breaks my immersion beyond saving. I had half an idea to do a World Cup run with qualifiers some time ago (considering it's also the only Fox Engine era game that allows it), but it's extremely hard to me to enjoy the game knowing I'll only see an endless, dull day/night cycle.
 
And we we/you said "for long terms", let's remember that it was an annual game so we should stay on it at least one year...
But no. Not only for a year. Or you may invent stories in your head. Well i remember to have played only Cup mode, Champion's league(s) and that's all but it's quickly over. No replay value, then it's not only modes to me : but the overall "zero-feeling" when you start a mode. It was lifeless : one or another for me was the same.

Perhaps the game i played the most exhibition matchs lol, as i created Bundes and all and i like to play with the teams you created from practically scratch.

I remember coming back after months for the the World Cup DLC which even with players presentation, was also lifeless and not immersive. One good thing i enjoyed was to choose your starting 23 amonst all players, as i didn't agree with the 23 from Italy lol, neither some others teams
 
Madmac79 said:
Besides.. no raining is too much to accept for me. I know I'm probably alone in this, and to some it will sound weird, but it always has been a major deal breaker, personally.. a football world where it never rains breaks my immersion beyond saving.
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I remember convincing my parents to buy a 3DFX Voodoo card for the family PC, purely because someone at school told me you got visible falling snow in FIFA 99 if you had a Voodoo card (otherwise you'd just have a pitch with white bits around the outside). Turns out he was a liar, you couldn't get falling snow... I never forgave him for that.

Long story short - I agree with you. :LOL:
 
Madmac79 said:
I think too 2014 is way too empty to play long term. It's very appreciable and interesting gameplay wise, but all I can do when I take it up are friendlies. Every ML I started felt meaningless after not long.

Besides.. no raining is too much to accept for me. I know I'm probably alone in this, and to some it will sound weird, but it always has been a major deal breaker, personally.. a football world where it never rains breaks my immersion beyond saving. I had half an idea to do a World Cup run with qualifiers some time ago (considering it's also the only Fox Engine era game that allows it), but it's extremely hard to me to enjoy the game knowing I'll only see an endless, dull day/night cycle.
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You are not alone. I second this about weather. Remember the 2004 days in pesinsight or soccergaming, when gameplay was critically acclaimed, the debate , except for the obvious about licensed teams, was why SNES had snow (and coin toss) and PS1-PS2 had not.

I think FIFA 99 and 2000 didn't have snow too, not sure, but was a big minus for me.

Also a very fun personal story, when i first bought PES 2015 on PC, i spent playing around 7 seasons without rain, and i was blaming KoNAMi for this, like" omg, they did it again after 2014, another year without bad weather "...

Only to realise, when i got 2016 that it was my settings responsible for this, not KoNAMi 🤣😝😁... Basically i was playing in low settings, where rain is supposed to exist, but is practically invisible. Then on medium settings, it is barely visible, and only in high settings, it is clear that it's raining. 🤣

In contrast, and on the PS2 era amd PS3 era games, rain was visible, even in low settings.

Finally, speaking about 2017, while usually i read people bashing KoNAMi for the lack of dynamic weather, i have a feeling that on PS4, when it's raining, sometimes, the weather is type of dynamic, like starting with little rain, then on halftime it rains cats and dogs and in the second half, its raining more than the first half.

I mean the scenario is a little bit repeated, but i see some dynamics, don't know what people expect when KoNAMi said dynamic weather, that it would be sunny->cloudy->rain->sunny again in the same match?
 
@slamsoze right, if I remember correctly FIFA 2000 didn't have this changing weather either.

Yeah, lack of rain is an issue, one that I hadn't noticed in PES 2014 until @Madmac79 mentioned it! But it's not a complete game-breaker for me. I would say that the biggest feature which detracts from my ML and Cup immersions has been PES 2015's insanely inflated scores. Having 7-6 and 5-4 scores in simulated games is not realistic at all.. When I saw that it pretty much detracted big time from an otherwise solid game.

I've been trying to find a mod which fixes the weather issue in 2014, but I haven't been able to find any. One thing I like about the PESEdit patch I'm playing 2014 though, is that it has the 2nd division of Bundesliga, which is pretty rare.
 
Silverdome94 said:
The intro movie and menu screen for PES 3/WE7 always hit a little different to the others for me. Winning Eleven 7, I believe, was my first PS2 game, and I thought the menu looked so futuristic and really captured that feeling of getting a brand-new console. It maintained the elements of the old ISS and early PES games, but much more polished, as you would expect from a more capable machine.

It also featured a really striking intro video. I usually don't get much out of these, apart from the classic FIFA 98 and World Cup 98 ones that really set the mood for the game. The music and immediate cut to dejected players and supporters, followed by the hard work continuing on the training ground and, ultimately, success, was a nice story arch.

It's also a wicked game, probably a top-3 all-time PES for me.

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I keep coming back to this. There's something really satisfying about it..

1673373752503.png
The team's #10 stands muddy and dejected...... I'm guessing it is either a relegation or an otherwise awful season..

1673373839900.png
The little girl can't hide her sadness as her family and other supporters look off emptily into the distance, absolutely shocked and silenced..

1673374599874.png
The disappointment is real.. The season has been a failure.

1673373592086.png
This supporter's face says it all: "I'm clapping a valiant effort", but you can really tell he's in between tears and support. He's like "I'm giving it my all no matter what"

1673374109109.png
Training under the Alps, what a scene.....

1673374202209.png
Epic..

1673374289340.png
The struggles continue the following season as the opposing team scores..

1673374364410.png
But the team is coming back.....

1673374454994.png
Finally a win!!!! After so much suffering.... a win!!

1673373657483.png
The same supporter from above is ecstatic, his loyalty is rewarded!!

An amazing intro. :)
 
Chris Davies said:
I remember convincing my parents to buy a 3DFX Voodoo card for the family PC, purely because someone at school told me you got visible falling snow in FIFA 99 if you had a Voodoo card (otherwise you'd just have a pitch with white bits around the outside). Turns out he was a liar, you couldn't get falling snow... I never forgave him for that.

Long story short - I agree with you. :LOL:
Click to expand...

We had the exact same experience.. I asked my parents for a 3DFX for Fifa back in the days :LOL:! They bought me a Banshee, tho (that wasn't as good as the Voodoo), can't remember if it was some ill suggestion of the seller or what.

Anyway, I think I kinda have to vindicate your friend.. even tho the exact circumstances are now fogged (it's been a lot of time after all), I can clearly remember reading on a prestigious italian game magazine that with a 3DFX you could have indeed other weather conditions on Fifa. It must have been some publicity stint by EA or something, as I remember the game looked way better but no snow to see.
 
slamsoze said:
You are not alone. I second this about weather. Remember the 2004 days in pesinsight or soccergaming, when gameplay was critically acclaimed, the debate , except for the obvious about licensed teams, was why SNES had snow (and coin toss) and PS1-PS2 had not.

I think FIFA 99 and 2000 didn't have snow too, not sure, but was a big minus for me.

Also a very fun personal story, when i first bought PES 2015 on PC, i spent playing around 7 seasons without rain, and i was blaming KoNAMi for this, like" omg, they did it again after 2014, another year without bad weather "...

Only to realise, when i got 2016 that it was my settings responsible for this, not KoNAMi 🤣😝😁... Basically i was playing in low settings, where rain is supposed to exist, but is practically invisible. Then on medium settings, it is barely visible, and only in high settings, it is clear that it's raining. 🤣

In contrast, and on the PS2 era amd PS3 era games, rain was visible, even in low settings.

Finally, speaking about 2017, while usually i read people bashing KoNAMi for the lack of dynamic weather, i have a feeling that on PS4, when it's raining, sometimes, the weather is type of dynamic, like starting with little rain, then on halftime it rains cats and dogs and in the second half, its raining more than the first half.

I mean the scenario is a little bit repeated, but i see some dynamics, don't know what people expect when KoNAMi said dynamic weather, that it would be sunny->cloudy->rain->sunny again in the same match?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think people expected exactly a succession of radically different conditions or something.

Sounds really cool if there is different rain intensity on Ps4! Never appreciated anything like it on pc, where at best it's just cloudy/then rain something in mid match with the same volume until end game. So it must be something that happens only on console.
 
Does anyone have Winning Eleven 7 International (NTSC-J) but with English player names? Every patch I have downloaded has an edited database with player attributes boosted which I dont want. I just need the original database with the original stats but with English player names.
 
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BillyKong said:
Does anyone have Winning Eleven 7 International (NTSC-J) but with English player names? Every patch I have downloaded has an edited database with player attributes boosted which I dont want. I just need the original database with the original stats but with English player names.
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The game got also some errors in the database / PES3 and WE7I Jp version)

In Hamburg : there was two player with the same name "Meyer/Meier" :
The "error" one: Erik Meijer
https://www.transfermarkt.fr/erik-meijer/profil/spieler/710 that one stopped in 2003 at hamburg and is on the game.
I noticed him as he got the same stats as in an older version.

Here's the real to add (you can just put the other in free agent)
The "real" one : Alexander Meier : https://www.transfermarkt.fr/alexander-meier/profil/spieler/1565
He's on PES4. Well don't worry he's weak, but what i don't like is that the other players boosted Hamburg in attack a bit too much.

My very first start when i received my PS2 was to edit WE7I, as i wanted to put the new stats system with more individuality and logic so was recopying all players from PES 4 lol.
One big annoying issue, you can't change the nationality manually : only with the WE7opt Editor sadly.

I will try to check on my desk if i got what you need

1. i started the WE7I database and saved it .
2. i came back with the version will all kits, and then, i restored the names (they were correct), it took me a 3 days.
Then there's WE/PES league i wanted to create teams over it and that was all. Case closed.

Will try (if i didn't loose it as i lost interest) the ISO and my O.F.
 
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