English Premier League thread

Right... andy18cruz clearly thinks Rio Ferdinand was a better player than some others, myself included, thinks. That's perfectly legal and I'll even admit that my opinion is coloured somewhat because of the doping incident.

Rio was fast, strong, great in the air and pretty decent with the ball which was rare, especially for an Englishman, at the time. He was also very important to United and he was worth the cost for the club. Whether he was THE best, the second best or just good is irrelevant in this discussion. He'd never make it into any of my XI's though, but that's just an opinion.
 
gerd said:
Ferdinand was much better than Hypia...how biased can one be...
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Not being biased at all. In my opinion (and I can have one), I believe Hyypia was quality for years. Ferdinand wasn't MUCH better at all. He had more pace. What other attribute stood out so much more then? Better tackler, header of the ball? Nope. Hyypia was also very good on the ball. He read the game superbly. He chipped in with a few goals too. Hyypia went to Liverpool for 2.6m. 3 years later Ferdinand went for 30m. Inflate Hyypia's value by say double. Was Ferdinand 6 times the player? No chance!

You come out with plenty of opinions I don't agree with Gerd. Your amount of favourite teams is one of them ;) You might think what I'm saying is cack but it's my opinion. Ferdinand was overhyped to the extreme. Put Hyypia in the United team instead of Rio and people would have raved about him like they are with Rio.

People jump on the bandwagon of certain players. They get brainwashed from the constant cack on the tele saying how wonderful and marvellous everyone is. I base my opinions on what I see and I believe for years that Hyypia was a great signing and a great centre half and fully stand by my opinion that Tampax Rio, wasn't as good as some make out. Good player? Yes, of course he was but for me, not as great as some people make out.
He was also a cheat. Only one reason you miss a drugs test no matter what excuse is used.
 
Fair enough Pu6hy, i can see your point.
Shouldn't have written about being biased, apologies.

And aboutt Hypia, the fact that he was really loved by the Liverpool fans, suggests that he was a very good player indeed. Maybe i "forgot" about him.
 
PU6HY said:
He was also a cheat. Only one reason you miss a drugs test no matter what excuse is used.
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Normally I would agree with you but to be fair to Rio he does come across as being incredibly dumb, even for a footballer. He struggles to pronounce words over three syllables and makes Alan Shearer look as articulate as Laurence Olivier... Looking at some of the stuff he wore during the BBC coverage of the World Cup I'm not even convinced he has the intellectual wherewithal to dress himself. Maybe he was so thick he genuinely forgot about the test.

He was a good defender, but the stuff about him being a world class passer and one of the greatest defenders of his generation is bluster. Cannavaro, Nesta, Lucio, Hierro, Paulo Montero, Ricardo Carvalho, Nestor Sensini, Lilian Thuram, Roberto Ayala, Igor Tudor, Franco Baresi, Puyol, Robert Kovac, Billy Costacurta, Frank De Boer, Carlos Gamarra, Dario Simic, Aldair, Laurent Blanc, Jens Nowotny, Samuel Kuffour, Rafa Márquez all these guys were much better than him in my opinion. Even at his own club Vidic was arguably better, I'm not saying he's a bad player but he's not one of the greats.
 
PU6HY said:
He was also a cheat. Only one reason you miss a drugs test no matter what excuse is used.
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He didn't only miss the test, he refused to take one later to prove his innocence as well. He basically admitted everything without so many words.
 
ZeroTheHero said:
He didn't only miss the test, he refused to take one later to prove his innocence as well. He basically admitted everything without so many words.
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Erm no, from the ever biased BBC:

"Ferdinand then contacted the club to offer to take the test, but was told it was too late.

He provided a negative urine sample within two days and has never previously tested positive in his entire career."

He actually provided the sample for the negative test within 24 hours of missing his first test. He offered to come in for the test a mere 3 hours after missing it.

He's a moron, but if he was doping his whole career he hid it like a champ. He was also was suspended for more than twice as long as a City player who failed a drugs test one year later, but that's because the FA have a policy (seriously) whereby the more public the figure the harsher the punishment.

I've no idea how you can't argue that Ferdinand is one of the best defenders in the last 2 decades. Simply factually, by wins, titles, stats etc. He went an entire title-winning season without picking up a card and committing something like 7 fouls. And hasn't had a proper midfield to play behind in about 8 years. He was excellent before Vidic arrived too, for those claiming the Serbian was the reason United went to 3 CL finals in 4 years. Not many teams do that, btw.

Sami Hyypia? FFS. The same people that would argue Hyypia is even in the same league as Ferdinand would be those that would also argue every other United player is massively over-rated, and be completely unable to argue why Ferdinand's trophy collection is bigger than just about anyone else's in the past 20 years.
 
Roy Keane says that Giggs was an average player who played for an exceptionally club.
Keane is a daft idiot and i don't agree in that instance and without really judging Rio, the silverware players get doesn't tell the whole story.

Not the best of arguments you used there.

I'm with edmundo's post.
 
beachryan said:
Erm no, from the ever biased BBC:



"Ferdinand then contacted the club to offer to take the test, but was told it was too late.



He provided a negative urine sample within two days and has never previously tested positive in his entire career."



He actually provided the sample for the negative test within 24 hours of missing his first test. He offered to come in for the test a mere 3 hours after missing it.



He's a moron, but if he was doping his whole career he hid it like a champ. He was also was suspended for more than twice as long as a City player who failed a drugs test one year later, but that's because the FA have a policy (seriously) whereby the more public the figure the harsher the punishment.



I've no idea how you can't argue that Ferdinand is one of the best defenders in the last 2 decades. Simply factually, by wins, titles, stats etc. He went an entire title-winning season without picking up a card and committing something like 7 fouls. And hasn't had a proper midfield to play behind in about 8 years. He was excellent before Vidic arrived too, for those claiming the Serbian was the reason United went to 3 CL finals in 4 years. Not many teams do that, btw.



Sami Hyypia? FFS. The same people that would argue Hyypia is even in the same league as Ferdinand would be those that would also argue every other United player is massively over-rated, and be completely unable to argue why Ferdinand's trophy collection is bigger than just about anyone else's in the past 20 years.
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I'm not arguing every other United player was overrated at all so wtf are you on about?! United have been a class side for years. You could swap x with y though and they still would have went on to win plenty of leagues etc.
Put Hyypia in that United team and there wouldn't have been any difference. Put a number of players in the position and it wouldn't have made any difference. A lot of centre halves are much of a muchness. WTF has only giving 7 fouls away got to do with how good a centre half is? What a stupid comment.
The guy was overrated IMO. I'm entitled to that opinion and I'm sticking with it no matter what bollocks about number of fouls you come out with. 7 fouls FFS.
By your reckoning some of the muppets in the squad are better players than Gerrard for example as they have more league titled to their name. Pathetic argument.
 
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beachryan said:
Erm no, from the ever biased BBC:

"Ferdinand then contacted the club to offer to take the test, but was told it was too late.

He provided a negative urine sample within two days and has never previously tested positive in his entire career."

He actually provided the sample for the negative test within 24 hours of missing his first test. He offered to come in for the test a mere 3 hours after missing it.
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How gullible of you to believe this then. Lance Armstrong didn't seem to have any issues with providing clean samples during the same era.
 
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beachryan said:
Erm no, from the ever biased BBC:



"Ferdinand then contacted the club to offer to take the test, but was told it was too late.



He provided a negative urine sample within two days and has never previously tested positive in his entire career."



He actually provided the sample for the negative test within 24 hours of missing his first test. He offered to come in for the test a mere 3 hours after missing it.



He's a moron, but if he was doping his whole career he hid it like a champ. He was also was suspended for more than twice as long as a City player who failed a drugs test one year later, but that's because the FA have a policy (seriously) whereby the more public the figure the harsher the punishment.



I've no idea how you can't argue that Ferdinand is one of the best defenders in the last 2 decades. Simply factually, by wins, titles, stats etc. He went an entire title-winning season without picking up a card and committing something like 7 fouls. And hasn't had a proper midfield to play behind in about 8 years. He was excellent before Vidic arrived too, for those claiming the Serbian was the reason United went to 3 CL finals in 4 years. Not many teams do that, btw.



Sami Hyypia? FFS. The same people that would argue Hyypia is even in the same league as Ferdinand would be those that would also argue every other United player is massively over-rated, and be completely unable to argue why Ferdinand's trophy collection is bigger than just about anyone else's in the past 20 years.
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Agree
 
I've asked for reasons why Ferdinand is so much better and the only crap I had back was number of trophies. Doesn't work like that though does it? Fletcher, Cleverley and a few other donkeys are better than Gerrard and Xabi Alonso by that absolute bollock of an argument. Those two aren't any better than bottom half of the table players.
Rio had more pace. Better tackler? Header of ball? Reader of game? Passer of ball? All debatable. Oh yeah, he gave less fouls away one season! That comment was surely a pisstake as I expect my centre half to dish it out a bit!
Hyypia was a fine Centre Half. 2.6m bargain. Would have been worth millions more if he was an overhyped English player. If Ferdinand didn't get his lucky break, nobody would be saying he's class. He did though and fair play to the guy. He ended up having a great career and he has been very good but like I said the other day, chuck plenty of other centre halves in there and it wouldn't have made any difference.
Anybody who didn't rate Hyypia, in my opinion, is clueless. I rate Ferdinand. Just not as much as the ones who overhype him do. Football is about opinions. There wasn't much between those two. You and others make out there was a huge difference in quality going by your laughing smilies. I don't believe that as I don't listen to all the wonderful comments the pundits make.
 
Ferdinand was faster, more athletic, about a million times better on the ball, better in one on ones, better pace over short distances and I'd say better at reading the game - based on the fact he was able to extend his career at the highest level by about 8 years with a chronic back injury that robbed him of pace.

Hyypia was probably better in the air. And a much nicer man. And he played for Liverpool.

If I can't form my opinion based on the trophies they've won, the longevity of their career at the highest level, their physical and mental attributes and their consistency, what else can we use to evaluate them?

Put another way, other an for sentimental reasons, would any manager in world football have swapped Ferdinand for Hyypia?

I'm nit saying Hypianisnbad, but Ferdinand is in another class IMO.
 
beachryan said:
Ferdinand was faster, more athletic, about a million times better on the ball, better in one on ones, better pace over short distances and I'd say better at reading the game - based on the fact he was able to extend his career at the highest level by about 8 years with a chronic back injury that robbed him of pace.

Hyypia was probably better in the air. And a much nicer man. And he played for Liverpool.

If I can't form my opinion based on the trophies they've won, the longevity of their career at the highest level, their physical and mental attributes and their consistency, what else can we use to evaluate them?

Put another way, other an for sentimental reasons, would any manager in world football have swapped Ferdinand for Hyypia?

I'm nit saying Hypianisnbad, but Ferdinand is in another class IMO.
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He certainly wasn't a million times better on the ball! Hyypia was a very good passer of the ball. You clearly never seen him play if you think he was loads less capable on the ball. Hyypia, with hardly any pace read the game really well too.
Pretty sure Hyypia had a good run at the highest level too. So back to trophies again. Absolute muppet of an argument.
30m for Ferdinand or 2.6m for Hyypia? No brainer for me when there wasn't as huge a difference between them as a blinkered United fan thinks.
I'm not saying he wasn't a good player. He clearly was. You have clueless people laughing at my opinion about Hyypia though who was also a top centre half.
As I said, a lot of centre halves are much of a muchness. Swap x for y and you'd get the same results. Blinkered and believing the media hype isn't something I fall for.
Both great centre halves. Don't think I'm saying different. Just one was overhyped to the max.
 
I've counterde the silverware argument with an argument of a former United player, but both younggun and beachryan choose to ignore that.

Man Utd has had worldclass cb's (Stam, Vidic), but not Rio Ferdiand.
 
Oh and another thing.

Daniël Van Buyten worldclass cb, look at all the silverware he has won with Bayern....
 
Some seem to have forgotten but Hyppia was good with the ball at his feet. He had solid passing, vision and technique for a big CB and was also quite composed and cultured.
 
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Graphic comparing Saint's old and new squad.

GmiIH2Q.jpg


Well put like that, the changes aren't THAT bad ...
 
Going from Lallana to Tadic and from Lovren to Gardos that's a major upgrade indeed. Pellè, Taïder, Forster and Bertrand are good additions as well.
 
crystal palace have appointed colin wanker as they new manager, jason puncheon is gonna be delighted with this:LMAO:
 
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