FIFA 21 Discussion (Console Versions)

Character Controllers using Motion VAEs


Work by University of British Columbia and Electronic Arts.

A fundamental problem in computer animation is that of realizing purposeful and realistic human movement given a sufficiently-rich set of motion capture clips. We learn data-driven generative models of human movement using autoregressive conditional variational autoencoders, or Motion VAEs. The latent variables of the learned autoencoder define the action space for the movement and thereby govern its evolution over time. Planning or control algorithms can then use this action space to generate desired motions. In particular, we use deep reinforcement learning to learn controllers that achieve goal-directed movements. We demonstrate the effectiveness of the approach on multiple tasks. We further evaluate system-design choices and describe the current limitations of Motion VAEs.

In this work, the authors present a kinematics-based motion model which means it does not need a physics engine to predict the motion of the character. It can simply look at previous few poses of the character in motion and output future poses to continue that same motion. It does so by training an Autoregressive-Autoencoder model on motion capture data.

It is Autoregressive because it uses previous poses to reconstruct the current pose. The pose encoder outputs a latent from which we draw a latent variable z that is used to add slight variations in our reconstruction. This ensures that the output pose is not repetitive and these slight variations make the combined motion look more natural and realistic. Then, the decoder reconstructs the pose based on the output of a mixture-of-experts gating network. This network ensures that the individual elements of the output pose like hand or body movements are consistent with the overall motion of the body.

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Cool. But it will probably be turned into garbage the moment a 10 year old holds the controller for the first time and utters the words "this is not responsive Mr Realistic". An executive will have a panic attack and will say "make it more responsive Mr Realistic".
 
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If anyone got the game, There are some weird and interesting new options introduced this year

In the controls section around 3 or 4 new automated switches on/off have been added incouding shooting,tackling and clearences....Add to that the automated jockey and pass lock...The user will probably only control some of the players’ movements and the rest is automated/scripted.... So weird.

One interesting addition is the rewind feature, Where you can go back in time to a certain moment in the game and play it again, I find it weird as well just like the fifa trainer visual aids.

Of course this feature was in PES 5/6 in training where you can press select button to rewind time .

As for the game itself, It’s really really a piece of crap but I’ll wait for the day one patch.
 
Love this, accurate quote from the BBC Tech review

“Other than that, and a few tertiary features, the career mode remains cryogenically frozen in the mid 2010s. It’s disappointing but it feels like a feature that will need completely removed and built from the bottom up if it’s ever to come back from its current malaise’
 
Love this, accurate quote from the BBC Tech review

“Other than that, and a few tertiary features, the career mode remains cryogenically frozen in the mid 2010s. It’s disappointing but it feels like a feature that will need completely removed and built from the bottom up if it’s ever to come back from its current malaise’
wonder what he wouldve said about master league mode for pes rofl.
 
Ok mr realistic.








Sorry, I just want to get in on the act. Evo-Web catchphrase of the year winner 2020 right there.
Cool. But it will probably be turned into garbage the moment a 10 year old holds the controller for the first time and utters the words "this is not responsive Mr Realistic". An executive will have a panic attack and will say "make it more responsive Mr Realistic".

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Love this, accurate quote from the BBC Tech review

“Other than that, and a few tertiary features, the career mode remains cryogenically frozen in the mid 2010s. It’s disappointing but it feels like a feature that will need completely removed and built from the bottom up if it’s ever to come back from its current malaise’
I find that strange given what's been added (having to manage the "match sharpness" element for one thing).

Here's what I noticed (before I had to stop playing because the gameplay is fucking appalling)...

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They've completely ripped off Football Manager in several ways (and I'm here for it).

Every position has a list of roles that almost completely matches Football Manager's ones. Each player has a "fitness" bar and a "match sharpness" bar - just like Football Manager. Keep doing this, EA. Learn from the master.

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Their implementation of the new training system is a ginormous pain in the arse.

You constantly stop/start trying to advance to the next match - if you want to manage your players properly.

The training section will automatically pick the training drills and trained players for you every two days, but if you want any control over this, you've got to: stop the game from advancing, then clear each of the three training selections, then clear the players selected for each one, then select your choice of players for each one, then actually PLAY the training (or else you'll just get a C forever and nobody will grow), one after the other. All this takes 5-10 minutes - and then, two in-game days later (i.e. a couple of seconds), you've got to do all of that again from scratch.

So just advancing from one Saturday game to the next can take 20 minutes playing the same old training drills...

...unless you've already got A ratings in those drills, in which case, you can sim them, get A ratings forever, and your players will become GODS within a year.

In either scenario - what do you end up doing? Just pressing "sim" each time. A whole new element of the game, gone. Because it's implemented so badly.

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The UI is so confusing, it's as if they don't want you to know what's happening.

When I go into training, I'm selecting drills almost randomly because there's no real explanation as to what attributes the drills will help with. So I'm guessing (and it really is just a guess) that all attributes you've asked each player to work on, on the "player development" screen - which is in a totally different place, 5-6 button-presses away for each player - are boosted at a ratio determined by the "match sharpness" boost of the drill.

Do you understand a word I've just said? No? Nor do I, really.

What I want to be able to see, at a glance, is - which players need match sharpness more than anyone else? I can't see that without selecting a drill, then selecting players individually.

What I want to be able to do at a button-press, is - get all my players who need match sharpness into match sharpness drills. I don't care which ones, I just want a whole team ready to play in-case of injuries. I can't do that either.

Even if I could - I'd still then have to play every training drill myself, in order to not get C ratings every single time.

In the end, I just gave up trying to understand what was going on with my team. The UI is horrendous. So I just gave up and let the AI do what it wants.


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The worst bit? They have applied FUT chemistry bonuses to Career Mode and it wrecks the gameplay (even further).
I don't think enough people are talking about this.


If you (like me) have players with full morale, full match sharpness and you train them so that they get between A and C ratings in training...

(Which should, if you were a sane programmer, result in players playing to the maximum of their ability, not beyond it...)

By game one, you have an entire first team squad with +6 and +10 attribute boosts. Which is bad enough, BUT.

The main effect of this was that, even using sliders to reduce sprint speed to 20 (!!!!), I could do this with any player I want, on World Class or Legendary (this is on "normal" speed to avoid the defender bugs on "slow" speed):



When I quit this match and went into Kick Off mode, I couldn't recreate this. But in my Career Mode game, my players were GODS.

@Matt10, is this something you're aware of?
 
Their implementation of the new training system is a ginormous pain in the arse.

The worst bit? They have applied FUT chemistry bonuses to Career Mode and it wrecks the gameplay (even further).
I don't think enough people are talking about this.

That training bit annoyed the hell out of me. The whole obsession with the stupid training system annoys me. It was always OP so I just ignored it and now I can't even do that. And yeah there are probably DOZENS of things I would hate even related to gameplay.

Defending is completely BROKEN so it's natural that everyone talks about that. But if in an alternate universe they scrapped 1v1s in a patch (and there's a zero % chance of that happening) that wouldn't suddenly make the game awesome. It would be much improved. But then maybe we could start noticing everything else. From the crap physical play and lack of fouls that everyone is conditioned to not complain about, to the lack of build up, to the the new tactics, to the way passing & shooting cares only about your input & not about the laws of physics or matching animations, to the bicycle kicks that are still used by the cpu (not in competitor mode) as regular passes to the chested passes that sometimes fly like they're driven passes & and god knows what else.

This game is too far gone in lala land. It's just that the defending steals the show without even trying.

On a positive note, the new purple menus are much better than the bland grey ones in 20. Probably the only improvement, so well done to the random number generator that picks a random colour scheme every year. Deserves a pay raise.
 
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A lot of other issues might be related to 1v1. Its hard to get fouls when most of AI team runs away from you and the one who is engaging is basically hovering around you like a drone..

I have no hope 1v1 will be removed, but there is a slight chance they might at least fix positioning and tracking. If other players had proper defending runs, positioning and some sort of marking - at least you could switch between them and do the rest yourself.
 
A lot of other issues might be related to 1v1. Its hard to get fouls when most of AI team runs away from you and the one who is engaging is basically hovering around you like a drone..

I have no hope 1v1 will be removed, but there is a slight chance they might at least fix positioning and tracking. If other players had proper defending runs, positioning and some sort of marking - at least you could switch between them and do the rest yourself.
Agree. There’s definitely lots of issues which arise due to 1v1.

My gut feeling is collision system (lack of) is next. I think if positioning/passing lanes were better, the lack of physical play would still let you run beyond players far too easily. The 1v1 absolutely is the first thing which needs fixing though.
 
So I don't understand. People have bought it right? It was out today right? Has it had a day one patch? has it fixed the issues or not?

Haven't bought this yet and holding fire for now but would appreciate some knowledge :)
 
I have a problem in offline Mode from FIFA 21 . When i go in settings-edit mode to Piemonte or Liverpool , i miss players . At Piemonte Dybala are not in the squad . By liverpool salah and firmino are not in squad and when i looking for this players they arent present
But when i play online or offline game the are present. but not in edit mode. Where is the problem?

sorry for my bad english
 
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So I don't understand. People have bought it right? It was out today right? Has it had a day one patch? has it fixed the issues or not?

Haven't bought this yet and holding fire for now but would appreciate some knowledge :)
No day one patch. There was a patch a few days ago but it only fixed FUT bugs.

In other news:


I'm not sad that they're gone - Martin Tyler drives me mad, in actual commentary and in FIFA. But I'm annoyed that there's no replacement, so we permanently get "bloke who makes up his own pronunciations of names" and "bloke who is so obviously reading a script it's painful".
 
Just gave Matt's sliders a go. Kick off match Mallorca (me) vs Las Palmas, world-class, semi.
I lead 7:1 at halftime and turned it off then. I don't use tricks, creative runs, timed finishing and all this stuff. Just walk past the defenders and shoot, that's all you need to do. And I would consider myself as an absolute average player.
Hell knows why I didn't cancelled the pre-order. This game is the worst "representation" of football ever. No sliders can fix this mess.
Surprisingly I have some decent fun with the other games update so far, so I have an actual footy game to play. But I really had some (naive) hopes in Fifa after all the announcements of the career mode, and the current state of the game really frustrates me.
 
Yesterday I was watching the career of a youtuber I like.. and well, it looks like saving this hot mess will be quite a task. Crazy animations, crazy speed, worsened collisions.. and I'm also not sure about AI in possession.. this guy was playing Lazio vs Spezia (low Serie A) and the latter did an irrealistic tiki-taka, running out the clock for all the second half without him able to much. And this, as you guys said, not even considering the main, tracking issue.

To think release date used to be a day full of wonder, where the only things to focalize on were the new things. Another thing of the past, I guess. No wonder here is so calm despite the game being out.
 
No day one patch. There was a patch a few days ago but it only fixed FUT bugs.

In other news:


I'm not sad that they're gone - Martin Tyler drives me mad, in actual commentary and in FIFA. But I'm annoyed that there's no replacement, so we permanently get "bloke who makes up his own pronunciations of names" and "bloke who is so obviously reading a script it's painful".

Never understood why they don't can the scripts, give them a real game to watch or the computer game and let them commentate on that live and then just cut up the audio.
 
As someone that usually enjoys these games to at least some extent, this is truly awful and not playable.

The only others I ever felt like this about were Fifa 17 (which is easily my least favourite in the last decade), and Fifa 20 on release last year (which I think was because of a bug where the AI was useless on higher difficulties, right?)
 
I have a problem in offline Mode from FIFA 21 . When i go in settings-edit mode to Piemonte or Liverpool , i miss players . At Piemonte Dybala are not in the squad . By liverpool salah and firmino are not in squad and when i looking for this players they arent present
But when i play online or offline game the are present. but not in edit mode. Where is the problem?

sorry for my bad english
Make sure you update the squads by selecting "Edit Teams" in the main menu and clicking on "Download updates" there.

No day one patch. There was a patch a few days ago but it only fixed FUT bugs.

In other news:


I'm not sad that they're gone - Martin Tyler drives me mad, in actual commentary and in FIFA. But I'm annoyed that there's no replacement, so we permanently get "bloke who makes up his own pronunciations of names" and "bloke who is so obviously reading a script it's painful".
Derek Rae doesn't make up his own pronunciations of names, he actually pronounces the names the correct way...
 
I think Derek Rae's pronunciations of names confuse people because he tends to go with the 'local' version of it instead of the English one, so it can be jarring. Doesn't mean he's wrong though.

Watching La Liga and hearing Suareth and Basketh (Vazquez) is odd too, doesn't mean it's wrong, however.
 
Derek Rae is notorious for detail. Renowned in Scotland for his research and accuracy in pronunciation so I'd be surprised if he's not closer to the mark than further from it. He'd insist on speaking to new foreign players in Scotland to ask how their name is pronounced. I've great respect for him in that regard, aaaand he supports the right team.

However, an eye and ear for detail doth not a commentator make. I don't like him on the microphone. He just doesn't have the charisma and turn of phrase. He's not even the best commentator from Aberdeen!

I don't expect to hear decent commentary in a football game for a long, long time. Until it can match the chaos on the pitch, it'll be turned off for me.
 
When I quit this match and went into Kick Off mode, I couldn't recreate this. But in my Career Mode game, my players were GODS.

@Matt10, is this something you're aware of?

What, you don't like being able run 75-yards uncontested?

Beating a dead horse, but it's the simple pleasures in life. Kick-off with Matt10's sliders except I have sprint speed on 30 instead of 20.


VvD looks more like a cornerback trying to cover a wide receiver than a world class defender. It's hilarious to watch VvD frantically check over his shoulder every two seconds to keep track of Griezmann as De Jong is rapidly approaching his goal. Like he's Maverick from Top Gun.
 
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I sometimes buy FIFA when I get a bit bored or annoyed with PES.

After watching quite a lot of footage pre launch, can anyone tell me if NHL 21 has a edit team name option, cos if it does I'll get that and just rename the teams to football sides and have the same experience.
 
Any of you also liking the Volta mode? This is the first time in a long time I enjoyed something from FIFA.
But it's funny, just when I started to enjoy the mode, there is a bug, where you can't connect and you will get a loss instead.
Typical lol.
 
Is it really Kevin De Briner? (Serious question!)

EDIT: Nope:

I can't watch that video, but in these two videos, his pronunciation is close enough:

At 3:17:




Right at the beginning:



What, you don't like being able run 75-yards uncontested?

Beating a dead horse, but it's the simple pleasures in life. Kick-off with Matt10's sliders except I have sprint speed on 30 instead of 20.

I think it's safe to say now that the game is bugged for some depending on the circumstances. I just played 5 matches in a row on Legendary / World Class, and I haven't run into a situation like this once. I'd say that the AI in FIFA 21 defends miles better than in FIFA 19 / 20 in my copy of the game, for whatever reason...
 
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