FIFA 21 Discussion (Console Versions)

problem about defending is that,its 2020 and that tactical useless thing still exist in fifa,they need to delete it,i dont get it why kids(fut players) complain about Single player AI,they never play vs AI and they concede every game 5-6 goals thanks to that pathetic tactical defense on fut/online and they like it,99pace+99dribling= scoring 5-6 goals on tactical,on legacy you cant dribble 1 player its hard and its "real defense/football"
 
FShas said:
Great work Matt.
Is it just me or is there a liveliness and variety in teammate attacking AI that hasnt really been in fifa before?
I know we're mostly tearing it to shreds here but your sliders generally produce a very different game to the early videos, and it just seems to me that there might be some positive elements in this game...
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On normal speed it seems that the reactions are much better. For crossing especially, the slow game speed makes it quite easy to be free on the back post. However, Normal, for some reason, the players are more engaged and pay attention a lot more. As a result, we had to go the normal game speed route.

The beta sliders are solid as a base. The game is playable now, and somewhat enjoyable. It's no where near where it should be to improve FIFA 21 completely, but it's a start.
 
Matt10 said:
Team is set to balanced as well.
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You mention this in all example clips. Does it make a difference? Is it that they sort of track back/cover better, only when teams are set to balanced?

Also just noticed the radar at the bottom of the screen! It's also bugged! Looks like half the players are heading for the stands, disgusted at their programming perhaps:

120962234_974665749682698_2550141210921986305_n.jpg
 
manmachine said:
You mention this in all example clips. Does it make a difference? Is it that they sort of track back/cover better, only when teams are set to balanced?

Also just noticed the radar at the bottom of the screen! It's also bugged! Looks like half the players are heading for the stands, disgusted at their programming perhaps:

View attachment 61845
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It's a copy/paste text straight from the OS forums when I was noting the findings. We are always checking the team tactics and individual instructions so not to skew the findings. Behavior with dropback, pressure on heavy, balanced, are being noted. In terms of the radar, yeah, that's on the PC when moving from Windowed to full screen. It fixes itself when the match is restarted or game is restarted of course.
 
Had a good laugh. Looks straight out of Warcraft or something..
EjuP7g_WAAANBPM
 
Matt10 said:
On normal speed it seems that the reactions are much better. For crossing especially, the slow game speed makes it quite easy to be free on the back post. However, Normal, for some reason, the players are more engaged and pay attention a lot more. As a result, we had to go the normal game speed route.

The beta sliders are solid as a base. The game is playable now, and somewhat enjoyable. It's no where near where it should be to improve FIFA 21 completely, but it's a start.
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where’s the sliders?
 
Jesus the more I see of it, the more this game looks rank! What are they smoking over at EA? This isn’t football.

Sliders aren’t fixing this monstrosity.
 
manmachine said:
Their animation system (movement of limbs) can be controlled by algorithms, it's not just fixed captured animations. Because they want variety and responsiveness. So when you power up a shot for example, the player may slide a bit or his feet may move awkwardly so that he can strike the ball at a specific moment in time. It's a design choice, it's not frostbite. If you want fixed animations you can load them up in any engine and they will play out perfectly every single time.

Yes it looks crap, no other game would do this crap, especially a multiplayer/competitive game because all animations have to be predictable so that you can get used to how many frames each action takes and you can learn to time whatever it is you can do in the game.

In fifa it's just random garbage. How can you time a tackle if your opponent moves like a freaking chicken flapping his legs uncontrollably.
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This started to become really obvious on FIFA 18 patched. The skating on rails feel
 
DarthKebab said:
where’s the sliders?
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Here you go:

ZZ3Ixe.png


Explanation of each value listed in Spoilers:
Timestamp: 10/06/2020 | 2:17 PM CST --- It's been a busy day working off the Base set, and ensuring that it passed the test for multiple teams and their CTTs/instructions to follow. The line discrepancy has worked really quite well, but I do feel I needed to give a slight boost for the CPU to latch on sooner. As a result, the biggest change is an additional discrepancy, this time in the marking at 65/68.

For now, stick to World Class and Normal speed. After a while, try Legendary or Pro - but keep the game speed at Normal. As we've grown to understand that so far the Slow speed may not work in our favor because it affects so much off the ball defensively (especially back post runs for crosses, etc).

​
♦♦♦ Goal: What a difference a couple days make. We understood that the biggest issue was the midfielders not tracking, but what was more frustrating is that the usual adjustments weren't making that difference. The focus here was to use what FIFA 21 gives us, which is multiple runs off the ball. From there, it's about making sure the defending midfielders "latch on" to the runners, which will then force them into their proper positions - even after the runners have left them.♦♦♦​
​
Sprint - 20/20​
► Lower Sprint in FIFA always brings momentum and some form of foot planting. Since we're playing on Normal speed, it means even more of an emphasis needs to be made in getting that feel right.​
​
Acceleration - 48/48​
► This is a welcome surprise because so many of us love a lower acceleration. However, in year's past it hasn't been an option because of how it reduces fatigue rather than drain it. This year though, it seems like fatigue still happens at this 48 value. This probably has a lot to do with the run frequency as well as the marking positions. Lastly, the importance with the acceleration is also to ensure that it is not so low that both user and CPU can out-race eachother with ease.​
​
Shot Error - 65/65​
► A good balance of poor shots and quality strikes. The threshold here is for when bad shots result in a variety, including high over the bar shots that don't happen very often on default or under 65. Have to ensure that the lowest league player can also still strike a ball with decent quality.​
​
Pass Error - 55/55​
► The key with pass error is that we have to find the value that makes it where the CPU isn't going to constantly try the same types of passes to break the defensive line. The most common method on default is to try to thread a through ball in, and let the forward be 1v1 with the keeper. With this value just slightly raised, we get that variety we are looking for, and paired with the lower pass speed, it gives defenders more of a chance to intercept/deflect.​
​
Shot Speed - 49/49​
► A favorite choice here to lower shot speed, but with the acceleration value at 48, the keeper will also be just slightly delayed, giving that late reaction for some brilliant saves or clutching at thin air look. Makes for some fantastic interactions with the ball.​
​
Pass Speed - 45/45​
► Since pass speed affects both ground and long balls, it is important that we do lower this so much that every pass feels labored and takes 5 seconds to reach its target. At this value, the marking is good enough in which passes can still be intercepted, and users will still need to give thought to where they are passing. It also allows manual players to enjoy the proper feel of the ball of the players' foot.​
​
Injury Freq - 90/90​
► Still brings enough variety as before.​
​
Injury Sev - 40/40​
► Again, enough variety and nothing so consistent between multiple users at this point.​
​
GK Ability - 48/48​
► With the lowering of shot speed, and acceleration, the GK will be just slightly delayed. It's important that we do not go so low that they become completely delayed with reactions.​
​
Marking - 65/68​
► This is one of the key values in the set. It compliments the discrepancy of the line length to determine when the defending midfielder needs to latch onto the oncoming runner.​
​
Run Frequency - 50/50​
► For the first time in a long time, this year we actually need a lot of runs. This value is key because it essentially we be the trigger for the "bait" of ensuring the defending midfielder sees a run to latch onto.​
​
● The Height, Length, Width (often referred as "HLW") are quite important to consider for each slider set. This year for FIFA 21 they are essential to be close to default, with the exception of line length, which is explained below. [/color]​
​
Height - 50/50​
► We're going to leave it alone for now. By default it feels somewhat low, but every team tactic/instruction makes a difference in some spots.​
​
Length - 40/45​
► The core value of the entire set really. It ensures that the user's midfielders are low enough that they can prepare for the oncoming runners, then latch onto them via the marking. For the CPU, it's the same, but because they cannot come off the rails like the user can, we need to give them just a bit more space and marking to prepare. *Note, as the user you still need to manually control your midfielders and practice good tecnhique. This is not a 100% automated process. The FUT/PRO crowd made sure their misguided "AI defending" theories were the norm.*​
​
Width - 50/50​
► We're going to leave it alone for now. By default it feels somewhat low, but every team tactic/instruction makes a difference in some spots.​
​
FB Pos - 50/50​
► Again, no need to modify this as it can definitely hurt, or help.​
​
FT Control - 50/50​
► Keeping this as is because the higher pass error will create the first touch control errors by themselves.​
​
 
When it comes to defending, you can see there are some great tackles and colisions but the jogging back is killing me. But i've seen some good animations but not enough is different for it to be other than an update.
 
I'll give the sliders a go. I honestly feel like I have to play with top teams this year due to the general malaise and lack of urgency from the players. I tried a career mode with Leyton Orient the other day, but the low player ratings really compounded the overlying issues.
 
100% the core of the game is flawed. The sliders are not even a bandaid this year. They are simply a way to distract what could be really bad - which is the default gameplay. The concept we've used is to take what 21 has given us and what we've known since FIFA 20. Basically creating a man-marking trigger to mimic an eventual zonal look.

For all the bad though, FIFA still produces the random brilliance in variety for me - and that doesn't happen without sliders. Here's one of the most rewarding goals I've ever scored.



 
Lovely goal that, there's one thing I have really missed, a header! Virtually impossible in Fifa 20, even if your striker was 6ft 9 and the cb was 5ft 8, CB would win every header.
 
Matt10 said:
100% the core of the game is flawed. The sliders are not even a bandaid this year. They are simply a way to distract what could be really bad - which is the default gameplay. The concept we've used is to take what 21 has given us and what we've known since FIFA 20. Basically creating a man-marking trigger to mimic an eventual zonal look.

For all the bad though, FIFA still produces the random brilliance in variety for me - and that doesn't happen without sliders. Here's one of the most rewarding goals I've ever scored.



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Excellent, the variety can't be beat.

My only bugbear is the defender who tries to bicycle-kick it away. I notice that once or twice per game, and always (ALWAYS) in a situation where you'd just try to dive forward and head the ball away.

They love Hollywood, don't they.
 
jobey said:
Lovely goal that, there's one thing I have really missed, a header! Virtually impossible in Fifa 20, even if your striker was 6ft 9 and the cb was 5ft 8, CB would win every header.
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I stopped taking long corners on FIFA 20,went short then crossed it in to the box,much better result
 
Chris Davies said:
Excellent, the variety can't be beat.

My only bugbear is the defender who tries to bicycle-kick it away. I notice that once or twice per game, and always (ALWAYS) in a situation where you'd just try to dive forward and head the ball away.

They love Hollywood, don't they.
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Oh I know, those random scissor kicks and bicycles are strange. This one was at least contextual - although I would've laughed if he hit his head on the bar trying to clear the ball away too.

In the end, I'm finding myself in replays for goals/chances/subtle animations that FIFA has always done well in. That's usually a good thing when I can do that - even if the underlying issues still plague this game.
 
I don't believe anything will change btw. But I would love it if they did change this tracking back and everyone raged about it.
I would copy paste "Get good/learn to attack/you're just not good enough" to every single one of them :P
 
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