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Manchester United Thread

Interesting, we do love a wide player, and we had a lot of Brazilian links. Anderson could finally be useful - he can help him settle in :)

Gerd - you're spot on. United haven't invested like a top team, and now like anything in life we're seeing the result of that decision. It'd be different if we had a truly great crop of youngsters coming through, but we really don't that I see. Decent, but not great. No Pogbas anyway ;)

Tough rub for Moyes. As long as he makes the CL he'll be fine - and rightly so. I still believe a new manager should be able to take us to 4th, the squad is good enough for that.

This year we've already dropped 20 points, and it's barely December. Last year we dropped 25 in the whole season.
 
darkoj2007 said:
I think that Moyes should leave. Of course I didn`t expect the same results like previous 20 years but I think that the main problem is motivation of the players and that winning mentality that Fergie inputs in players mind. It`s not lack of creativity, let`s speak with open cards, we have Cleverly, Kagawa, Rooney, Valencia, Rafael, Van Persie, Chicharito... Those players are high class. With the same team Fergie was demolishing other teams in Premier league. I can`t even remember when we look soo desperate in the field. We have the ball in the our feet and we don`t know what to do, that is not lack of creativity, that is wrong tactic! Yesterday we had Giggs in the middle for 90 minutes, I respect him a lot and experience he have is unbeliveable BUT he is 40 years old! How the hell Moyes expect Giggs to battle with players 20 years younger than him? Whole match Fellaini plays the ball background to Vidic and Smalling, what kind of midfielder is that? in tandem with Giggs who is outpaced by younger players we expect to win? no way!I don`t know why Rafael was replaced last night, if it`s becouse of injury ok but if its not then that is totally wrong decision. Rafael and Valencia were the real threat for Everton in the first half and then wrong substitutions.. sorry for long post but I have to share my opinion. with Moyes we can battle for Europa league this season. We are United our mentality is to win games!
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Be careful now, you could be ruining something really good. Ferguson was appointed in 1986 and it took him some 3 or 4 years to deliver the first title. What if they sacked him in his first season?
Of course the pressure and expectation is huge, Ferguson is a tough act to follow, but people need to have patience.

Very few managers can do what Arsene Wenger did (not even Ferguson did), which is deliver a league title in his first full season (it was the double actually).

Patience is required. Moe will be good for you! ;)
 
I think it's a bit off to say that Utd haven't spent like a top team. Id guess that the last few transfer windows would look something like

Chelsea 160
City 130
Utd 100
Liverpool 90
Southampton 70

Perhaps they haven't spent enough in the sense that aging core players, like Rio, Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Scholes (soon to be Carrick and RVP perhaps), have had to be relied upon more than they should but a decent amount has been spent the last few years from a position of strength. Ferguson doesn't seem to have had much of a long term approach with his signings in that regard, probably knowing he wouldn't be around much longer, only Jones looks like a possible cert for a core role in the future. No idea about Zaha as yet

But I don't think Utd look in as bad shape as many seem to think, at least not in the short term (and not in the long term, they will spend money, and they have Januzaj). 6 pts off City with a busy xmas period coming up. One loss atm and everyone rounds on the manager, whether it be Moyes, Pellegrini, Mou, AVB, funnily enough only Wenger is safe from criticism, which would have been unthinkable a few months ago :LOL:
 
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Godotelli said:
I think it's a bit off to say that Utd haven't spent like a top team. Id guess that the last few transfer windows would look something like

Chelsea 160
City 130
Utd 100
Liverpool 90
Southampton 70

Perhaps they haven't spent enough in the sense that aging core players, like Rio, Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Scholes (soon to be Carrick and RVP perhaps), have had to be relied upon more than they should but a decent amount has been spent the last few years from a position of strength. Ferguson doesn't seem to have had much of a long term approach with his signings in that regard, probably knowing he wouldn't be around much longer, only Jones looks like a possible cert for a core role in the future. No idea about Zaha as yet
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Last 5 seasons looks like this according to transferleague.co.uk:
City = 640m
Chelsea = 390m
Spurs = 310m
Liverpool = 304m
United = 230m
Arsenal = 188m
Villa = 179m (!!!)

All gross, but that's the 'investment' bit. So we've definitely spent a lot, don't get me wrong, but it's not really what you'd expect from a team with the most premier league titles in that time. So we're 5th compared to English teams, but we'd also be behind: Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG, Monaco at least.

So we've maybe been the 10th highest investor recently. Something like that. And as before, our wages are miles behind the European giants.

It's remained under the radar because of Fergie, but the Glazers really have stopped us being a major force in terms of spending. We still spend more than lots of clubs of course, but we're no longer at the very top of European football in terms of spending.

And as you say, the real problem is that our earlier 'splurges' are finally breaking down. Rio was arguably the best 30m we've ever spent (Ronnie at 12m?) but he's done. Carrick was relatively expensive back in the day when we bought him, but is on his way out. Rooney has been great business at 26m, and will soon become the highest scoring United player ever, which is amazing.

But would we go out and buy another Rooney today? Blow everyone out of the market with a huge bid for a truly star talent? I'm not convinced. We balked at Lucas Moura when that was almost a done deal. We ran away from Herrera's asking price. And rumor is we made a much lower offer than Real for Bale.

Anyway, maybe a better coach than Moyes could have us doing well - Fergie last season shows that - but I think we should be patient with him. This squad's inadequacies are not his fault, and he should be given time to fix them.
 
The thing is though, looking at Utd's 200ish mil versus, say, Spurs' 300ish mil, on the face of it, you'd say Utd have done well to be so far above Spurs despite Spurs spending 50% more, but, as we know, Utd were in a lot stronger position during that time so, depending on how you quantify league positions etc., it's not quite so clear.

If we're to compare the spending of "top teams", the teams Utd have had to compete with, I don't think it's crazy to say that a club like City weren't a top team recently until arguably the year before the title win when we finished 3rd. With that it mind, you'd have to cut a large portion out of the 600m if the exercise is just to quantify Utd's spending vs top teams.

(The above two reasons are why I looked at the last 4 or 5 transfer windows)

Obviously Chelsea would be in that boat for the entirety and Utd have done very well to hold them at bay, even if Roman may have had a say in part of that with his chopping and changing, and absolutely did well to take the title back off City with relative ease.

I think you will spend but the question is how much would a Rooney cost today? I can't see Utd spending 50m on a young star - especially since young foreigners are a gamble to pay high fees for (there are no English Rooney's atm as far as I can see) -, no. I can, however, see you spending 50m on an established star, tho not until the summer.

I think we agree tho that the issue is the replacement of some core players. And i definitely agree that Moyes should be given time to do just that. The goal should be to make sure of CL football and use this season as an audition for next. There's a lot of Utd fans crying and demanding Moyes be sacked but the majority of the real Utd fans will give him plenty of time.
 
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beachryan said:
This is excellent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb_c4Dmkzwg
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A lot of what he says is true. Ferguson knew too well about the cracks on the pavement, knew it was a transitional period, which is a normal thing, it happens from time to time - the last time he had to do an overhaul was around 2005/2006?

Truth is he was getting too old and probably wanted out in 2012, but there was no way he would have retired after City won the league! :LOL:
So he signed Van Persie to win the title back, and as a parting gift to the fans (and a welcoming gift to Moyes).

But no doubt there's a massive work of rebuilding for Moyes to carry out. And I'm not sure he's getting it right. I gotta agree about Fellaini there as well. Quite underwhelming so far.
 
Rentboy said:
Truth is he was getting too old and probably wanted out in 2012, but there was no way he would have retired after City won the league! :LOL:
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That's exactly what he wanted to do, as his wife's sister had passed away and he felt obliged to spend more time with her but he put it on hold for one last hurrah.
 
I will give Moyes time, but it worrys me with the way we play and of course how bad some off our players are.

The transfer shambles in the summer was a shambles. If we had got someone like Herrera and another player along with Fellaini we wouldn't be doing so poor.

Big rebuilding needs to be done for this team as alot of players are either past it or just not good enough.
 
I watched Fellaini against Everton, he played a very good match.
Don't forget that he is a holding midfielder. This is not the player who will change everything in terms of creativity. That is what some of the fans expect him to do. He will never do that.

It also took him some time to do well when he arrived at Everton, but Moyes had patience with him (because he was the most expensive player in the club's history). In the end he did reasonably well in an attacking position, but that is not his natural position.
 
I know he wants to play a holding role, but I don't see it. He doesn't have the passing ability to do what Carrick does or have the football intelligence of a Makelele.

IMO he's a box to box midfielder who creates opportunities for himself and others through sheer drive/strength and aerial ability. He's a good player in that regard but, whilst he will improve, he's not suited to Utd unless he's going to get on the end of crosses by playing up front or just behind.
 
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With a litle bit of patience he will deliver for Man Utd.
I agree with you that he is no Makelele, but that was a very unique player...i don't see any Makelele in any team at the moment.
Against Everton he looked good and solid, you should have seen him against Japan with our national team, he had absolutely no confidence, failed in everything he did...
 
I only saw the MOTD highlights but we seemed pretty unlucky from an attacking perspective.

I think even some of us knew we were fucked when it was announced Carrick was out for 6 weeks, he's been the glue to our setup for years now.

January can't come soon enough though as we need to bring in one or two.
 
It's true Fellaini wasn't awful, but I think a big part of being a holding player is mobility - and the big fella just isn't quick enough really. If it's a high ball that's fine, he has time to get under it, but in a United shirt opposition players have found it seriously easy to just run past him.

Some reporters were saying that he's actually really shy, so is probably just taking time to settle in. Hopefully that's the case.

@ YoungGun - It's incredible that we didn't score against Everton. Some serious bad luck with deflections, crossbars and Welbeck finishing.

Oh and I'd imagine it'll be Danny and Hernandez up front tomorrow. Yay!
 
A draw would have been a fair result, but you can't really say that United should have won the match. When Welbeck missed that header Everton were Lucky, United should have scored then, but Everton also had chances.
A win is perhaps an unlucky result for United, but Everton certainly played a good match too...
 
Kagawa is ill apparently, so potentially another one of our creative players will be missing against The Geordies.

So it's 4 if RVP doesn't make it and we're left with a Portuguese winger who's been a bit too greedy imo hence having to be benched so often, and an 18 year old, on whom lies the heavy burden of actually delivering something interesting in the final third. :)
 
being optimistic It could be OK, get Hernandez upfront and let Nani and Rafael get crosses into the box with Januzaj being given the license from the number 10 spot.

at least its a gameplan!
 
Godotelli said:
Really thought Newcastle would win today but RVP starts so they're off my accumulator
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Yeah even though we ve been pretty toothless thus far, it's amazing how RvP I able to disguise our midfield weakness a bit with his physical strength and the runs he makes to spread the play. Still he doesn't look fit at all. Unfortunately Nani, Januzaj and Hernandez keep getting pushed around by Newcastle s defense.

Btw never realized Cabaye was such a dirty little shit.
 
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giphy.gif


:P
 
Only watched the last 30 mins or so but thought Newcastle were excellent. Impressed with Remy. Newcastle have some very good players and were in a completely false position last year

RVP looks a bit chubbier in the face :/

From what I saw, Utd were poor and only threatened from set pieces. Without Carrick there's no decent passing. It's all very obvious and slow. Ben Arfa apart, Newcastle kept the ball moving much better and the stats back that up.

Wish I had kept Newcastle in my bet now :(
 
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Yep, were a bit shit.

not sure were you start really? the players? the manager? lack of quality?

I think you have to really question all of it at this stage.
 
I was thinking it was ok to lose at Old Trafford, but now everybody wins there! I'm pissed off Arsenal didn't. Wenger should give his players a good old bollocking :P

Interestingly, one of the teams who did it recently, Everton, will visit the Grove tomorrow, so that will help the players concentrate even more knowing how Everton can be dangerous.

Today I just watched the last 10 minutes, but I'm under the impression Van Purse strings is struggling with his injury. He still needs to get match fitness.
And you must have missed Rooney badly too. BTW, how on earth a striker has already accumulated 5 yellow cards at this stage in the league?
 
so do you guys think Moyes will stay untill the end of season? i realy am curious about the next transfer window in united...
 
"They are coming to Old Trafford and we will make it as hard and as difficult for them as possible."

We sure did! really made Newcastle work for that win today. :))
 
PIPA23 said:
so do you guys think Moyes will stay untill the end of season? i realy am curious about the next transfer window in united...
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Yes, no doubt in my mind.

The transfer window will be important, every manager needs to bring in a few of their own signings and sadly Moyes was let down in the previous transfer window.
 
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