gabe.paul.logan
Too old for this s***
damn...i could earn that fortune that Moyes does these days and MU would be still this shite
Manchester United Thread
- Thread starter Vannizzlefashizzal
- Start date
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Seriously just resign Moyes, end this nightmare.
dplane
Big Kahuna Burger
Seriously just resign Moyes, end this nightmare.
You know things are in the crapper when even the staunchest Moyes believers are turning...and that's exactly what seems to be happening. Hell, im a pretty optimistic guy but breaking wrong record after wrong record stings a lot more than just a little now. Beach put into simple terms quite succinctly a few times: there is zero improvement or reason for hope that there will be improvement. I don't agree with the folks who also say we simply need a squad overhaul as well..yes some players need to go and come in but we still have a few of the world's supposed finest players in this team and despite the Smallings, Young's and Cleverly s of the world we did not just a little..but a lot better last year. Show anger, take responsibility.. Do something Moyes. I don't even really see that he cares..well..other than looking completely confused and depressed that is. Great role model that.
/rant over for now
On a positive note: RvP should have plenty of energy left for the Dutch at the WC
gerd
Retired Footballer
Rarely read as much bullshit as what was written here since my last post (no offence meant).
I remember lacklustre performances like this under Ferguson too.
We all knew that this was a weak squad, i never understood how it was possible that this squad (minus Januzaj, Mata and Fellaini) could win the EPL with a very large margin... As a neutral since Ronaldo left, Man Utd are a very mediocre team that play boring football but that somehow won things...now they don't win anymore. I know it is a world of difference, but this was Always bound to happen sooner or later...
Give me a couple of names that in your opinion could turn this situation around ?
IMO the only mistake Moyes made was accepting the job now...every other manager would have done exactly the same after Ferguson and his après moi le délugue-attitude...he stopped building for the future for a couple of years now...it might also have happende under him (but it didn't , i know).
I remember lacklustre performances like this under Ferguson too.
We all knew that this was a weak squad, i never understood how it was possible that this squad (minus Januzaj, Mata and Fellaini) could win the EPL with a very large margin... As a neutral since Ronaldo left, Man Utd are a very mediocre team that play boring football but that somehow won things...now they don't win anymore. I know it is a world of difference, but this was Always bound to happen sooner or later...
Give me a couple of names that in your opinion could turn this situation around ?
IMO the only mistake Moyes made was accepting the job now...every other manager would have done exactly the same after Ferguson and his après moi le délugue-attitude...he stopped building for the future for a couple of years now...it might also have happende under him (but it didn't , i know).
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Rantboy
International
- 27 December 2002
- Team
- Fluminense FC / Arsenal
How about our boy Joel Campbell, eh? I want that lad back at Arsenal after this 
gerd
Retired Footballer
And what should happen know ?
Well probably the board should sack Moyes. I'm quite sure this is not the best solution, but it might appeace quite a lot of people in and around the club.
And then ?
Look at Liverpool. They sacked Hodgson who never got a fair chance by the fans (unlike Moyes who did get support of the fans) and they brought in a club legend. Did it get better ? No, things got worse, but when Dalglish was brought in the fans were over the moon (how silly) because he was a club legend. Now Liverpool fans only talk about Hodgson and they try to forget that Dalglish made things much worse...
So what should United do ?
Sack Moyes and ask Cantona.
Then go for a real investor and a real manager.
People will blame Cantona's failure to the current owners (but not Moyes' failure, the Glaziers had nothing to do with that, that was entirely Moyes own ineptitude).
My point is: in current football a club like Man Utd shouldinvest a couple of hunderd millions in the team...look at your noisy neigbours and clubs like PSG, Chelsea and even Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern...those are the real big clubs...there is (unfortunately) no secret in nowadays football. Money equals success...
"Decently managed" clubs like Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool might win one or two successes, but in the end they don't stand a chance against the clubs i mentioned. Dreamers like Pipa might not agree, but one day they will awake and see the sad truth of football nowadays.
All this has far less to do with David Moyes...i bet Olympiakos invested more in their current team than Man Utd.
Well probably the board should sack Moyes. I'm quite sure this is not the best solution, but it might appeace quite a lot of people in and around the club.
And then ?
Look at Liverpool. They sacked Hodgson who never got a fair chance by the fans (unlike Moyes who did get support of the fans) and they brought in a club legend. Did it get better ? No, things got worse, but when Dalglish was brought in the fans were over the moon (how silly) because he was a club legend. Now Liverpool fans only talk about Hodgson and they try to forget that Dalglish made things much worse...
So what should United do ?
Sack Moyes and ask Cantona.
Then go for a real investor and a real manager.
People will blame Cantona's failure to the current owners (but not Moyes' failure, the Glaziers had nothing to do with that, that was entirely Moyes own ineptitude).
My point is: in current football a club like Man Utd shouldinvest a couple of hunderd millions in the team...look at your noisy neigbours and clubs like PSG, Chelsea and even Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern...those are the real big clubs...there is (unfortunately) no secret in nowadays football. Money equals success...
"Decently managed" clubs like Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool might win one or two successes, but in the end they don't stand a chance against the clubs i mentioned. Dreamers like Pipa might not agree, but one day they will awake and see the sad truth of football nowadays.
All this has far less to do with David Moyes...i bet Olympiakos invested more in their current team than Man Utd.
United are obviously lacking in a few areas of the pitch, but they're not this bad. That's the real failing of Moyes.
I don't dislike the guy. He seems like a genuinely decent bloke. He's not a hypocritical egomaniac like Mourinho. But he is a football manager, not someone I want to hang out with. So in the end it has to come down to how well he does his job. And the answer is - badly.
I don't have a great answer as to who United should hire. But this isn't working. I can understand why we hired him - in Soccernomics he's the third highest ranked manager that has ever managed in the prem based on points per dollar spent (Ferguson, Wenger). It could have worked for a multitude of reasons. But it hasn't, and it isn't going to. Rather than keep going down a road that is leading in the wrong direction, sometimes you have to turn around. That's what United need to do.
I don't dislike the guy. He seems like a genuinely decent bloke. He's not a hypocritical egomaniac like Mourinho. But he is a football manager, not someone I want to hang out with. So in the end it has to come down to how well he does his job. And the answer is - badly.
I don't have a great answer as to who United should hire. But this isn't working. I can understand why we hired him - in Soccernomics he's the third highest ranked manager that has ever managed in the prem based on points per dollar spent (Ferguson, Wenger). It could have worked for a multitude of reasons. But it hasn't, and it isn't going to. Rather than keep going down a road that is leading in the wrong direction, sometimes you have to turn around. That's what United need to do.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Roy Keane's reaction to Carrick's post-match interview on ITV was classic. Slightly terrifying too.
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BobbyBox
WING NUT!
- 10 October 2003
- Team
- Arsenal
But with attacking players he has 3 world class players and Januzaj, Kagawa.
I can understand the defence needs replacing but they should be scoring more goals than letting in.
Confidence just looks shot at the moment.
Even a midfield of say Carrick, Fellaini along wih Mata/Kagawa is a good midfield at least.
You could then have Rooney up front, Van Persie on the left and Januzaj on the right or whatever, with Young etc as back up.
That midfield and attack should be doing much better and is a lot better than most in the league, apart from the obvious.
It is not as if his whole team is crap.
I can understand the defence needs replacing but they should be scoring more goals than letting in.
Confidence just looks shot at the moment.
Even a midfield of say Carrick, Fellaini along wih Mata/Kagawa is a good midfield at least.
You could then have Rooney up front, Van Persie on the left and Januzaj on the right or whatever, with Young etc as back up.
That midfield and attack should be doing much better and is a lot better than most in the league, apart from the obvious.
It is not as if his whole team is crap.
gabe.paul.logan
Too old for this s***
maybe the most of the players want Moyes out
zeemeister
foxy engine
I honestly believe that is the case as well
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
The players may well have downed tools.
gabe.paul.logan
Too old for this s***
was not the first time i saw tho that reason about back in the days Ferguson had some bad series with the team in the beginning....
but really, nowdays the club has a lot of money, quality manageres everywhere and some upcoming potential quality managers aswell, Manu has a lot of money, why not spend it well then? why wait it out what the future comes? 1-2 season is really long time and thats not sure that Moyes will deliver, he hasnt done anything besides keeping Everton on midd table for 10 yrs
im not a MU fan so i dont really care, just wondering that the board has some patience and time, because the club is an investment and a business not just a ...club and MU is a top club, its like Heineken would deliver shitty beer for the next 2 yrs probably
but really, nowdays the club has a lot of money, quality manageres everywhere and some upcoming potential quality managers aswell, Manu has a lot of money, why not spend it well then? why wait it out what the future comes? 1-2 season is really long time and thats not sure that Moyes will deliver, he hasnt done anything besides keeping Everton on midd table for 10 yrs
im not a MU fan so i dont really care, just wondering that the board has some patience and time, because the club is an investment and a business not just a ...club and MU is a top club, its like Heineken would deliver shitty beer for the next 2 yrs probably
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gerd
Retired Footballer
Heineken always delivers shitty beer...
Apart from Januzaj (who came from Brussels and Anderlecht), Man Utd doesn't seem to produce youth products...that is also worrysome imo...
Apart from Januzaj (who came from Brussels and Anderlecht), Man Utd doesn't seem to produce youth products...that is also worrysome imo...
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Really Gerd? I personally don't think are youth products are one of our weak points, barring Barcelona we do quite as well as any team really.
The problem last night is Moyes got it completely wrong, no excuses and he even admitted this himself, the idea that Young and Valencia was the pairing to go with was diabolical.
Why didn't Fellaini and Kagawa start, we haven't got another game for 10 days! so why wasn't Januzaj atleast an option on the bench.
The problem last night is Moyes got it completely wrong, no excuses and he even admitted this himself, the idea that Young and Valencia was the pairing to go with was diabolical.
Why didn't Fellaini and Kagawa start, we haven't got another game for 10 days! so why wasn't Januzaj atleast an option on the bench.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Who ?
Wellbeck and Evans.
Don't see any other...
And althoug i personally like Wellbeck, they aren't exactly superstars.
Godotelli
Stroking Silva's Hair
De Gea made more passes to RVP than Carrick, Cleverly, Young, Welbeck, Kagawa
Utd pretty much need a whole new back 6, imo.
-Rafael is decent but he always seems to be injured so a decent RB needs to be signed.
-Rio is so past it it's not funny
-Vidic is ok but on the decline and leaving anyway.
-Evra is alright going forward but is another on the decline.
Others like Evans, Smalling, to me are, at best, backup CB's for a top team. Jones could become a quality CB but he's another one that seems to get injured quite a lot.
-Carrick is 33 in the summer and should really be 3rd choice, from next season onwards certainly. He's another who is only going to decline and pickup more injuries.
-Fellaini doesn't look good enough to me to be part of a midfield 2. He fancies himself a DM but he's not one. Too slow, not enough defensive nous and doesn't have the brain or passing ability for a deep lying playmaker. He was perfect for Everton in the hole and he'd be perfect for a West Ham or Palace. He's probably only worth keeping as a sub for when you're desperate for a goal and just lumping the ball into the box.
Giggs is obviously finished and Cleverly is a player for the likes of Hull despite the brief promise he showed at the start of our title-winning season.
The frontline is fine, tho RVP is only going to decline and be more injury prone. He could go on another season or 2 but as good a player as he is I wouldn't fancy him as my main striker.
Valencia and Young are ok as backups.
In my estimation, the makeup of the squad is just as much to blame as Moyes is. You can get away with 2 or 3, maybe 4, players in the squad being on the decline but utd have too many all at the same time. I do not buy this "we were champions last year so it's all Moyes' fault", football can change quickly, especially when alot of your players are declining at the same time. You might look at 1 player and say "he hasn't declined that much" but add 5, 6 or 7+ important players together and the sum total is quite large. Football at the top level is all about the margins (as they say) and let's not forget that Utd weren't anything special last year. RVP turned poor performances into wins time and again.
Cleverly is a bit of a scapegoat for Utd fans on the pitch. Off it, Moyes has been made a bit of a scapegoat by Ferguson. You can look at the stats and point out the negative points swing etc. but looking at the squad chances are that was always going to be case. Could a fit RVP have made up for some of the decline and had you in and around Liverpool? IMO, yes, but that's the gamble Ferguson took to go out on a high.
Utd pretty much need a whole new back 6, imo.
-Rafael is decent but he always seems to be injured so a decent RB needs to be signed.
-Rio is so past it it's not funny
-Vidic is ok but on the decline and leaving anyway.
-Evra is alright going forward but is another on the decline.
Others like Evans, Smalling, to me are, at best, backup CB's for a top team. Jones could become a quality CB but he's another one that seems to get injured quite a lot.
-Carrick is 33 in the summer and should really be 3rd choice, from next season onwards certainly. He's another who is only going to decline and pickup more injuries.
-Fellaini doesn't look good enough to me to be part of a midfield 2. He fancies himself a DM but he's not one. Too slow, not enough defensive nous and doesn't have the brain or passing ability for a deep lying playmaker. He was perfect for Everton in the hole and he'd be perfect for a West Ham or Palace. He's probably only worth keeping as a sub for when you're desperate for a goal and just lumping the ball into the box.
Giggs is obviously finished and Cleverly is a player for the likes of Hull despite the brief promise he showed at the start of our title-winning season.
The frontline is fine, tho RVP is only going to decline and be more injury prone. He could go on another season or 2 but as good a player as he is I wouldn't fancy him as my main striker.
Valencia and Young are ok as backups.
In my estimation, the makeup of the squad is just as much to blame as Moyes is. You can get away with 2 or 3, maybe 4, players in the squad being on the decline but utd have too many all at the same time. I do not buy this "we were champions last year so it's all Moyes' fault", football can change quickly, especially when alot of your players are declining at the same time. You might look at 1 player and say "he hasn't declined that much" but add 5, 6 or 7+ important players together and the sum total is quite large. Football at the top level is all about the margins (as they say) and let's not forget that Utd weren't anything special last year. RVP turned poor performances into wins time and again.
Cleverly is a bit of a scapegoat for Utd fans on the pitch. Off it, Moyes has been made a bit of a scapegoat by Ferguson. You can look at the stats and point out the negative points swing etc. but looking at the squad chances are that was always going to be case. Could a fit RVP have made up for some of the decline and had you in and around Liverpool? IMO, yes, but that's the gamble Ferguson took to go out on a high.
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
That's part of the problem - none of the 'top' teams in England at the moment are able to rely on home grown talent, so you to buy it.
United's undoubtedly the best of the 'big' teams though. Cleverley, Welbeck, Smalling, Rafael, Evans, Janujaz have all at some point played for our youth team.
But are they as good as the players City and Chelsea have bought? Probably not. That's kind of the issue.
PIPA23
retired :)
- 21 June 2007
Wasn´t Smalling already Fulham first team player before you bought him? i wouldn´t consider him United youth team player tbf..
PIPA23
retired :)
- 21 June 2007
now the fans being threaten?!
He was a youth player in non-league football, then signed for Fulham but basically played 2 times in his half a season there. He was never really part of their team.
Godotelli
Stroking Silva's Hair
jobey
Boooo
- 18 January 2007
- Team
- Manchester United
I actually think anyone who still believes Moyes is the right man now is just living off false hope, there is no bloody hope.
That man has destroyed what Fergie did in 27 years, he installed fear, that no die attitude with arrogance and attacking football with technical brilliance has all vanished. We just lost to a pretty average team in the UCL, this stage last season we gave Real Madrid a bloody good game of football.
Moyes deserves no more time, the only reason he gets more time is because the man who is bigger than the club instructed to stand by the manager. Sadly I now believe we have stood long enough.
Time for Moyes to go before thinks get worse than this absolute shambles of a fucking season.
That man has destroyed what Fergie did in 27 years, he installed fear, that no die attitude with arrogance and attacking football with technical brilliance has all vanished. We just lost to a pretty average team in the UCL, this stage last season we gave Real Madrid a bloody good game of football.
Moyes deserves no more time, the only reason he gets more time is because the man who is bigger than the club instructed to stand by the manager. Sadly I now believe we have stood long enough.
Time for Moyes to go before thinks get worse than this absolute shambles of a fucking season.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Ferguson himself destroyed much.
I agree with Godotelli's post about players in decline.
The best example is his solution for the midfield problem. He called Scholes back from retirement. What a long term solution ! United fans are as blind for the mess Ferguson made of his lat years as Liverpool fans refused to see that Dalglish was calamitous for their club.
Cantona to succede Ferguson !
I agree with Godotelli's post about players in decline.
The best example is his solution for the midfield problem. He called Scholes back from retirement. What a long term solution ! United fans are as blind for the mess Ferguson made of his lat years as Liverpool fans refused to see that Dalglish was calamitous for their club.
Cantona to succede Ferguson !
jonnyluvrod
Championship
Nothing lasts forever.
No team, club, manager etc have a divine right to success.
Maybe it's just time for Manchester United to not be as successful as they have become accustomed to.
Manchester United have had very little competition each year from more than one other team. Blackburn, Arsenal, Chelsea and more recently Manchester City have been United's only real competition domestically each league campaign.
It's refreshing to see a more diverse spread of challengers this year, regardless of United's position or performances.
No team, club, manager etc have a divine right to success.
Maybe it's just time for Manchester United to not be as successful as they have become accustomed to.
Manchester United have had very little competition each year from more than one other team. Blackburn, Arsenal, Chelsea and more recently Manchester City have been United's only real competition domestically each league campaign.
It's refreshing to see a more diverse spread of challengers this year, regardless of United's position or performances.
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Team
- Liverpool
J'sus Gerd, you do go on about Dalgish as if he destroyed Liverpool.
Look at the stats and football in that time, they were poor in the final season with Benitez (6th place finish?), although different circumstances.
Hodgson was very much old school and the team didn't respond to his methods. Very much like Utd now.
Dalglish took over and had Liverpool playing some of the best football they had played for quite some time and got a contract because of that. Him and Commolli wasted a lot of money (about 50-60mil in the end I think) and Liverpool won the CC and reached the final of the FA cup (and an incorrectly dissallowed 85th min goal away from extra time) and finished 7th or 8th in the league.
Rodgers came in and had a poor start (worse than Hodgson at a certain point) but we could see he was trying to create a playing style and since the turn of the last year has had Liverpool mostly playing great football with a 7th place finish last season (but with a top4 form) and hopefully a 4th this season with a top4 form.
Dalglish may have been a poor appointment in the end, but not that bad to paint him with the blame.