Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

[jmg721]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Agreed. But versus Inter he wasn't his usual self. By the way, I read an interview by Zenga and apparently Palermo played in a 3-4-1-2 formation, with Migliaccio playing in defence alongside Kjaer and Bovo, Simplico and Bresciano as defensive midfielders, Cassani and Balzaretti wide, Pastore in the hole behind Miccoli and Cavani. I watched the game and I thought it was there typical 4-3-1-2, with Simplico starting out in the hole and Pastore wide left, and then Pastore playing in the hole, Simplico playing as the regista and Bresciano out wide?? I'm so confused. Anyway it was a great game... Cavani finally got one on target And Sirigu, where'd he come from? Good keeper, excellent save vs Diego (yes he did touch it) .

I'm half way through the game and taking notes, and the starting line-ups were so wrong. Zenga is correct. Migliacco was playing LCB. I wouldn't say Bresciano or Simplicio were "defensive" midfielders...but there were playing the deepest initially, and were very involved in the attack. At least early on Cavani stuck to the right side, Miccoli was attacking from the left, and Pastore was right behind the forwards(very advanced midfield role). Balz and Cassani were looking great as WB(i think especially Cassini is a natural WB), and they were a VERY attack minded squad. I'm interested in seeing how Juventus couldn't take advantage of that. Is it possible Bresciano, Simplicio and Migliacco's defensive abilities are being overlooked?

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

really, you under estimate Palermo. They're really belong in the top half of the table, around 6th or 7th position, but they've had problems including the injured Liverani and Cavani's shooting

that is way too generous mate. in an hypothetical power ranking i would put palermo at the 10th place, after inter, juve, samp, genoa, roma, fiorentina, napoli, lazio and milan.
the thing is, being the 10th team in serie a isn't the same of being the 10th club in other leagues (as i wrote many times). and that's why i don't think this is about underestimating palermo.
this is infact an absolutely normal approach for a guy who is getting in contact with serie a. u read about juve being destroyed by a team with 9 points, and, based on your other leagues experience, your first thought is "damn juve must have failed big time".... that's because this is what u would think if real madrid (second in spain as juve) would loose 2-0 to getafe (9 points as palermo).... or if man utd (2nd in epl) would loose 2-0 to stoke city (9 points like palermo).

when stoke plays against man utd, u will hardly see more than 2 stoke players beyond the ball line... as they will most likely park the bus in front of the box and try some long ball counters.... wich would make a 2-0 victory for stoke city quite a crazy result.

while in spain a 3-2 or a 2-1 would be much more likely than a total domination (like a 2-0) as getafe will try, regardless their opponents higher quality, to play his usual football, hoping to score at least once before madrid get its 3rd goal.

the 10th team in serie a instead, a club wich has 9 points (exactly as stoke city or getafe) is still a club which can display every week the likes of miccoli, simplicio, nocerino, liverani, kjaer, bovo, balzaretti, pastore ( ).... and that's where the difference lies.

He's okay. Bolzoni was a much more refined player with better passing skills.

quite the opposite mate. bolzoni is on is way to become a good player.... Poli belongs to a different category. he's a legend in the making..... which, obviously doesn't mean he will actually become a legend.... as far as we know, 6 years from now, bolzoni might end up to be a much better player... or maybe they will both fail to step up....
but what we can say at the moment is that andrea poli is the hottest midfield italian prospect since de rossi (and theese aren't my words... theese are corvino's, marino's, marotta's and gerolin's words.... on a gazzetta dello sport of last season). after giovinco (3 seasons ago), balotelli (2 seasons ago) and santon (last season) he's this season's next best thing.
i mean, there's a reason if bolzoni has been loaned to frosinone, while poli stayed in serie a and already got 4 presences despite the competition of palombo and tissone.

and the most impressive thing of this guy is his personality. he is so cool, so composed, so ridiculously aware on the pitch, he looks everything but a 20 years old kid. u watch him playing along with an amazing player like palombo and u can hardly tell who is the newbie between them.
and it's not like he plays along the sidelines... he plays in the centre of the pitch, in the middle of the traffic and in the core of the game, where it's most difficult to keep your coolness and to find the right position. he has the same unnatural coolness cigarini has.

and that was about his personality. talking about skills, for passing, technique, vision, shooting, stamina and pace, Poli is just on a different level than bolzoni. his passing technique is just excellent, his ball control his already almost top notch, his shooting accuracy is very very good (his shooting power isn't that great yet, but that's absolutely normal coz, being 20 he's just at the beginning of the muscular growth process). his vision is nowhere as good as cigarini's one, of course.... but other than cigarini, i can't think of any other under 23 italian player who has a better vision (and this is crazy, coz he's not even a natural regista).

very good long pass, great through balls, great short quick passing game, he can use both feet.... if only his dribbling was on par with his other skills, he would be a little iniesta.

i saw this Andrea Poli kid against inter, he played very well. he kept making good off the ball runs into the opponent's penalty box, seemed pretty fast and has some good dribbling. most importantly he continually tracked back and harassed the Inter midfielders and kept nicking the ball off them. Could you enlighten me more on this kid's game, lo zio?

his dribbling is pretty decent, maybe slightly above average, but nothing more (at least at this early stage of his carreer)... and yes, he has a very high "commitment ratio" so he tends to track back and try to help his teammates during non-possession phases... however talking about pressing and covering skills he still has a lot to learn. anyhow he definitely puts some effort in recovering the ball, so i can see him improving this aspect of his game in the next few years.

as for his role, right now he's just too good at too many things (wich is not a good thing in italy), so his coaches haven't yet given him a specific role imprinting.
he is a natural mezz'ala, namely an offensive kinda midfielder, wich is slightly different from a pure trequartista (just to make it easy to understand his natural role is gerrards' one, aquilani's one, iniesta's one, hamsik's one).
but he also has a great vision and a very good long passing accuracy, wich allows him also to stay deep and play as a regista (like pirlo or cigarini). in the next 2 years he will develop into a specific direction\role, but at the moment it's impossible to label him with a specific role.

Congrats on the big 3 points vs Juve Ben. It allowed me to not be too upset with Fiorentina getting screwed out of 2 points on a ball that appeared to go over the line. When will they allow for technology to step in on a play that seems easy to get right. Did the ball cross the plane of the goal line. It really shouldn't be subjective. Can't they make sensors like in hockey...grrr.

you're right jason. that's indeed the only technologic addition that i believe might actually be useful in football.

I read an interview by Zenga and apparently Palermo played in a 3-4-1-2 formation, with Migliaccio playing in defence alongside Kjaer and Bovo, Simplico and Bresciano as defensive midfielders, Cassani and Balzaretti wide, Pastore in the hole behind Miccoli and Cavani. I watched the game and I thought it was there typical 4-3-1-2, with Simplico starting out in the hole and Pastore wide left, and then Pastore playing in the hole, Simplico playing as the regista and Bresciano out wide?? I'm so confused. Anyway it was a great game... Cavani finally got one on target And Sirigu, where'd he come from?

jason pretty much replied to your question as for sirigu, i got to say i'm sincerely impressed by him. it's quite a few years i hear this kid sirigu is meant to become a great keeper.... but, to be honest, i already heard this about so many keepers (who eventually failed and never step up) that i don't even pay attention to theese rumours anymore. let's hope he'll keep going like this.... for now, putting rubinho out of the starting formation, well that's already an extraordinary achievement!

It may have been in reference to Melo's touches on the ball. He tends to over elaborate on the ball and get dispossessed easily. But for me he has been quite disappointing so far this season, Juve would've been much better off with D'Ago.

i'm pretty sure melo will improve (a lot!) in the next 2 years and fix the major flaws in his game.
what really amazes me is how on earth juventus (which already got marchisio, sissoko and poulsen) thought he could have been an useful addition to the team.
and even more crazy than that, how for God's sake, at 25 millions, they thought it was a good investment.... especially since they thought 24 millions were too much for xabi alonso (last season) and 20 millions were too much for d'agostino (this summer).
it just makes no sense. however big news for juve; cobolli has been removed from his president role.... maybe this means secco is the next one on the departures list? maybe marotta taking over as juventus general manager next season?? that would really be a great news for juve fans.

speaking of boards revolutions, de laurentis appointed montali as napoli's new general manager.... what a joke!!!

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Ben, how is Pastore doing with Palermo.
When i heard that they bought him, i was overjoyed...i think he can become one of the best players in Serie A.

 

[jmg721]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Ben, how is Pastore doing with Palermo.
When i heard that they bought him, i was overjoyed...i think he can become one of the best players in Serie A.

I heard them calling him "The New Kaka". I think he has an unusual balance of technical skills, passing skills, vision and pace. He's definitely not a star yet. But with him and Kjaer at 20 yrs old...Palermo has to be a scouts dream.

@ Ben - Amazing post as usual. I truely now understand Poli, and can't wait to watch him some more.

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

that is way too generous mate. in an hypothetical power ranking i would put palermo at the 10th place, after inter, juve, samp, genoa, roma, fiorentina, napoli, lazio and milan.

Thing is with Samp, as soon as Palombo hits a rough patch in form or Cassano, then there's not much left. God forbid Castellazi gets injured. Same problem with Lazio, there's isn't enough quality depth in key positions like midfield. I suppose Palermo have the same problem in Miccoli and Liverani, take those two out and Palermo would be lucky to finish in the top half of the table. Pity Palermo didn't deem it necessary to invest in a replacement 'regista' for Liverani, Cigarini for example would have been a terrific signing.

As for Poli, to me he seemed another Dessena or Darren Fletcher (somewhat) not cool-headed and deeplying like Cigarini. I don't think he's naturally an attacking player, furthermore he doesn't appear to have that attacking 'intelligence' or creativity. Versus Inter he just looked ready to 'disrupt' our play by hurling himself about in midfield. I was more impressed with vs Siena. Good to see he's getting playing time with a top team and surrounded by top players.

 

[jmg721]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Thing is with Samp, as soon as Palombo hits a rough patch in form or Cassano, then there's not much left. God forbid Castellazi gets injured. Same problem with Lazio, there's isn't enough quality depth in key positions like midfield.

You can say that about every team except Inter, Juve and Milan. Even Fiorentina are down to a midfield of Zanetti, Montolivo and Donadel. God for bid one of them get injured it looks like Gobbi or Jorgensen will be thrown into the CMF/DMF role.

I suppose Palermo have the same problem in Miccoli and Liverani, take those two out and Palermo would be lucky to finish in the top half of the table. Pity Palermo didn't deem it necessary to invest in a replacement 'regista' for Liverani, Cigarini for example would have been a terrific signing.

Cigarini could have been a terrific signing by any team. How can you get one Palermo for not getting a "back-up" regista incase Liverani get's injured when just about most teams lack 1 quality regista. I think Simplicio has done a great job filling in for Liverani. I think no Miccoli would be pretty devistating...but you can always move Simplicio back to AMF, and Pastore on the wing. Just can't have Liverani, Simplicio and Miccoli getting injured at the same time.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Thing is with Samp, as soon as Palombo hits a rough patch in form or Cassano, then there's not much left. God forbid Castellazi gets injured. Same problem with Lazio, there's isn't enough quality depth in key positions like midfield. I suppose Palermo have the same problem in Miccoli and Liverani, take those two out and Palermo would be lucky to finish in the top half of the table. Pity Palermo didn't deem it necessary to invest in a replacement 'regista' for Liverani, Cigarini for example would have been a terrific signing.

i think u're looking at the situation from the wrong point of view. we're talking about mid class clubs here. particular mid class teams, with great starters but still mid class.... if they had backups as good as their starters, then we shouldn't be talking about mid class teams anymore. if samp had a backup for palombo, who is as good as palombo, a backup for cassano who is on his same level, a backup gk as good as castellazzi... they would be title contender.... besides if there were some players so good to deserve to be compared to the likes of palombo, cassano or castellazzi, or pazzini or tissone (i'm taking samp as an example here, the same could be said about genoa or napoli or palermo players etc,)... well theese players definitely wouldn't accept to be a backup in samp... and even if they would, samp couldn't afford them.

i don't blame palermo for not getting cigarini, for example. because it would have been impossible. napoli bought cigarini for 8 millions euros!! which club could ever spend 8 million euros for a backup? maybe real madrid and chelsea.... sure not palermo...
besides a player so good as cigarini...he would never accept the backup role in palermo, coz dozens of other clubs in italy and europe could offer him much more money than palermo and a starter spot.

i'm not sorry coz we don't have a backup for miccoli who is as good as miccoli, or a backup for balzaretti as good as him, or a second liverani or a second kjaer.
i feel lucky coz we were able to get theese great players, coz having the chance to field so much talent is some extraordinary for a mid class team. and i'm sure jason feels the same about fiorentina, which has an enourmous share of great players, most of them being starters...
afterall in wich other league, a club whose natural habitat is between the 5th and the 10th spot, can field so many great players as palermo can? how many foreign mid class teams can display players like..
felipe, zapata, d'agostino, inler, pepe, di natale, sanchez (udinese)
santacroce, campagnaro, zuniga, maggio, hamsik, cigarini, lavezzi, quagliarella (napoli)
amelia, criscito, jankovic, mesto, palacio, crespo, palladino, floccari (genoa)
castellazzi, mannini, tissone, palombo, pazzini, cassano (samp)
bovo, simplicio, balzaretti, kjaer, nocerino, liverani, miccoli (palermo)
kolarov, mauri, foggia, ledesma, zarate, pandev, rocchi (lazio)

if each of theese clubs would have great backups aswell, they wouldn't be mid class clubs anymore, as they would be fighting with inter for the scudetto.

we (mid class clubs fans) aren't disappointed by the lack of depth of our teams... we are grateful for the huge loads of talent in our starting formations....
i mean let's take this point to the extreme... Parma, a neo promoted team... they got mirante, zaccardo, lucarelli, castellini, dzemaili, pisanu, galloppa, mariga, biabany, amoruso, bojinov....
anywhere in europe (epl, bundes, liga) this would be a mid class roster (a great one too) not a neo promoted team roster.... and look at the amazing roster torino and empoli (both relegated teams) had. do u think they complained for not having backups as good as their starters?

As for Poli, to me he seemed another Dessena or Darren Fletcher (somewhat) not cool-headed and deeplying like Cigarini. I don't think he's naturally an attacking player, furthermore he doesn't appear to have that attacking 'intelligence' or creativity. Versus Inter he just looked ready to 'disrupt' our play by hurling himself about in midfield. I was more impressed with vs Siena. Good to see he's getting playing time with a top team and surrounded by top players.

well, of course, playing against siena he had much more freedom than facing inter!. anyhow he's completely different from fletcher (also because fletcher is already a complete grown up player, while andrea is a footballer "in becoming"). he might turn out to be a mezz'ala like hamsik or a regista like cigarini... it's just to early to tell it now. it's even impossible to judge him or rate him at this stage of his carreer. the only thing we can say is that he has something very special. i can't tell if he's a creative player (but i think he's not) but he definitely has that attacking intelligence u mention

Ben, how is Pastore doing with Palermo.
When i heard that they bought him, i was overjoyed...i think he can become one of the best players in Serie A.

well, the kid knows how to play football, that's for sure. despite the huge role-competition, he already got 5 presences with the rosanero shirt. and i have to say i'm really impressed.
as for poli, it's impossible to rate him, as he's still too young and unexperienced... he's like an uncut diamond... it's impossible to tell how good he'll turn out to be.... but sure he's off to a very good start

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Cassano still left out of the national team then. If Cassano doesn't make the World Cup it will be one of the biggest football shame's in a while. He's played out of his skin for a while now and even (mostly ) kept a lid on things. Would be a shame to the big stage if he wasn't present.

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

You can say that about every team except Inter, Juve and Milan. Even Fiorentina are down to a midfield of Zanetti, Montolivo and Donadel. God for bid one of them get injured it looks like Gobbi or Jorgensen will be thrown into the CMF/DMF role.

Difference is Gobbi and Jorgensen are accomplished in those roles. You can throw them in the latter stages of the game and feel confident they will perform even versus tough teams. Udinese have Asamoah and Isla. Genoa of Milanetto and Kharja. Samp only have Franceshni (a side midfielder) and Poli who no one has even heard until now.

How can you get one Palermo for not getting a "back-up" regista incase Liverani get's injured when just about most teams lack 1 quality regista.

Most teams don't rely so heavily on an old, injury prone 'regista' like Liverani. One could argue that purchasing Cigarini should have been a priority instead of Pastore (lets pretend for a minute we didn't know how good Pastore would become

i mean let's take this point to the extreme... Parma, a neo promoted team... they got mirante, zaccardo, lucarelli, castellini, dzemaili, pisanu, galloppa, mariga, biabany, amoruso, bojinov....
anywhere in europe (epl, bundes, liga) this would be a mid class roster (a great one too) not a neo promoted team roster.... and look at the amazing roster torino and empoli (both relegated teams) had. do u think they complained for not having backups as good as their starters?

I was about to bring up Parma. I mean Tissone didn't even get much play time yet he's a starter at Samp. Couldn't have Samp invested in a player like Carmona of Reggina and then sign Tissone as back up? They're tons of capable players in serie B. Couldn't they have signed one on loan like Parma did Džemaili? Or maybe resign Volpi, I'm sure he would sign on a free, no problem. One thing I can't figure out is why sell Sammarco?

You mid table clubs are quite lucky. ALready Inter have injury problems (Milito, Motta, Sneijder and Cambiasso earlier in the month) it's very irritating because these are key players, without them we can't play good football.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I mean Tissone didn't even get much play time yet he's a starter at Samp. Couldn't have Samp invested in a player like Carmona of Reggina and then sign Tissone as back up? They're tons of capable players in serie B. Couldn't they have signed one on loan like Parma did Džemaili? Or maybe resign Volpi, I'm sure he would sign on a free, no problem. One thing I can't figure out is why sell Sammarco?

rfu, tissone is one nice football player... i'm not sure who would be the best pick between him and carmona... but sure he's not as bad as u imply he's been a key player at atalanta for 2 years.. and he's also young. volpi was a great player back in the days... (i remember when real madrid asked about him)... but now he's 35 and he's not the same player he was. he definitely wouldn't have given the contribution tissone can give.

and they also have all the depth they might need. palombo, tissone, franceschini, poli.... 4 players for 2 spots, 1 backup for each central midfielder...... that's more than enought for a team who doesn't have to play any competition other than serie a and coppa italia..... u definitely don't wanna any more good central midfielders, as they would complain for the lack of playtime.

and that's probably why they loaned sammarco to udinese (sammarco wasn't sold to udinese ). marotta probably wanted to leave space for the rookie Poli this season, so, in order to make room for him, he sent sammarco to udine.... this way no one is gonna complain in sampdoria's dressing room, Poli will have his playtime, sammarco will keep growing at udine (wich is a great place to improve as a football player) and samp won't loose him.... and they won't even have to play his wage for this season.....
it makes sense to me

Most teams don't rely so heavily on an old, injury prone 'regista' like Liverani. One could argue that purchasing Cigarini should have been a priority instead of Pastore (lets pretend for a minute we didn't know how good Pastore would become

i told u mate, it doesn't work like that. there's no way cigarini would come to palermo to be a backup... even if zamparini would be so silly to waste 8 millions on a backup (we hardly spend 8 millions on our starters) cigarini would have said no. why accepting a backup role in palermo, when u can be a starter in almost any other team in serie a?
i agree with u is a risk to rely on an injury prone regista like liverani.... but the problem is.. how many resgistas as good as liverani u can count out there? d'agostino won't leave udine for less than a top club, cigarini wouldn't accept the backup role...... i wouldn't mind getting xavi, xabi alonso or pirlo.... but i don't think we can afford them
we tried (very hard) to get dzemaili this summer (and mind u, dzemaili is good, but nowhere near liverani's level), but even dzemaili preferred a starting spot in parma rather than a backup role in palermo (and honestly i can understand him).

besides try to tell prandelli is risky to rely on a player like liverani.... he's been missing him ever since he left fiorentina

You mid table clubs are quite lucky. ALready Inter have injury problems (Milito, Motta, Sneijder and Cambiasso earlier in the month) it's very irritating because these are key players, without them we can't play good football.

that's mother nature trying to find its balance....i'm starting to believe serie a works like an ecosystem.... whenever a club buys too many good players, then injuries rain down on them to preserve the balance.
natural law theory... it seems that aristotele, hobbes, locke and tommaso d'aquino were right afterall

If Cassano doesn't make the World Cup it will be one of the biggest football shame's in a while

totally agree mate
that's even worse than domenech leaving frey and mexes out of france.

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I agree with Ben on Tissone, he's a very good player.
About Liverani-Cigarini: if im' not mistaken Cigarini is good deal younger than Liverani. Why not transfer Leverani and buy Cigarini (now that i type this, this maybe seems a rather simplistic solution).

Oh and can anybody tell why Mesto was sent off in the match against Bologna ?

Ben, i really loved that Fabio Simplicio goal against Juve, what a good and opportunistic run...great.

 

[jmg721]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Most teams don't rely so heavily on an old, injury prone 'regista' like Liverani. One could argue that purchasing Cigarini should have been a priority instead of Pastore (lets pretend for a minute we didn't know how good Pastore would become

In watching the Argentina League and highlight shows, there was no doubt Pastore was going to be this good(remember he rejected a Man U bid). The fact that he got an opportunity from day one is fantastic for him, because his development started right away. It'll be interesting to see who will get relegated to the bench upon Liverani's return.

About Liverani-Cigarini: if im' not mistaken Cigarini is good deal younger than Liverani. Why not transfer Leverani and buy Cigarini (now that i type this, this maybe seems a rather simplistic solution).

Yeah...I'd have to disagree with this logic. Even though they are both Regista's they provide different qualities. And not to mention Liverani's their captain, and pulls the strings for the whole team. So its not that easy to just sell him, and probably for a fraction of the cost of Cigarini. Plus, they already have youth with Cavani, Abal Hernandez, Pastore, Kjaer, Succi, Levan....why not have some experience and leadership surrounding them instead of trying to get younger at every position. Also, isn't Cigarini just as injury prone of late as Liverani?

@ rfuna - I agree with lo zio. I don't know why you have hatred toward Tissone. He was a very good player on Atalanta, and just didn't get much of a run at it last season with Udinese. Very good player that I'm keeping in eye on. I like his contributions so far on the season better than Franchescini.

 

[Leo Bax]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

totally agree mate
that's even worse than domenech leaving frey and mexes out of france.

at least Domenech leaved Frey because he made a bad mistake in a match (and he have Mandanda and Lloris who are very promising) and started calling Mexes last year

I become crazy when I read Lippi said: "Cassano? Mi avete stufato" (bad translation for non-italian members: "Cassano? You tired me!") To me he's becoming annoying, firstly he reject to call him, now he don't want to reply to journalists questions (always the same, though)
I'm always thinking someone in FIGC is boycotting him, I think someone of Totti's clan (Zio in future I want to start a talk about this), he hate him, and De Rossi today said they don't need Cassano "because other NT forwards scored more than him in last years"

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

rfu, tissone is one nice football player... i'm not sure who would be the best pick between him and carmona... but sure he's not as bad as u imply

I wasn't implying he's a bad player. I was just saying he was hardly used at Udinese so he shouldn't demand a starting berth at Samp.

volpi was a great player back in the days... (i remember when real madrid asked about him)... but now he's 35 and he's not the same player he was. he definitely wouldn't have given the contribution tissone can give.

I meant bring in Vopli as back up. I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

palombo, tissone, franceschini, poli.... 4 players for 2 spots, 1 backup for each central midfielder...... that's more than enought for a team who doesn't have to play any competition other than serie a and coppa italia..... u definitely don't wanna any more good central midfielders, as they would complain for the lack of playtime.

and that's probably why they loaned sammarco to udinese (sammarco wasn't sold to udinese ). marotta probably wanted to leave space for the rookie Poli this season, so, in order to make room for him, he sent sammarco to udine.... this way no one is gonna complain in sampdoria's dressing room, Poli will have his playtime, sammarco will keep growing at udine (wich is a great place to improve as a football player) and samp won't loose him.... and they won't even have to play his wage for this season.....
it makes sense to me

But Franceschini isn't even a real central midfielder, he can't defend, certainly he isn't better than Sammarco. And I doubt Sammarco will get minutes at Udinese, Tissone hardly got a look in and they were competing in the UEFA cup at the time. Even now, with injuries, Udinese have reverted to a 4-4-2 formation when they could've easily slotted Sammarco into their usual 3-man midfield. Wait, was Sammarco part of the deal for Tissone? poor guy. Otherwise I would kept him over Franceschini, definitely, bring in Volpi to warm up the bench (plus he's a bit of playmaker, so he'd be very useful). I think Sammarco + Volpi makes more sense than Tissone.

i told u mate, it doesn't work like that. there's no way cigarini would come to palermo to be a backup... even if zamparini would be so silly to waste 8 millions on a backup (we hardly spend 8 millions on our starters) cigarini would have said no. why accepting a backup role in palermo, when u can be a starter in almost any other team in serie a?

Yeah, okay Ben but you understand its a mistake relying on Liverani for a whole season? Why not bring in Cigarini to replace Liverani? Either immediately or eventually. Why not give them both a starting place, like Scholes and Carrick at Man U? Wait, how much was Pastore?

besides try to tell prandelli is risky to rely on a player like liverani.... he's been missing him ever since he left fiorentina

Perhaps but at least they had continuity, an ever present midfielder in Felipe Melo. But seems they didn't learn their lesson when they decided to bring in another injury prone player for their midfield, Cristiano Zanetti

 

[jmg721]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

How is Liverani injury prone? He played 70+ games over 2 seasons with Fiorenina, and then 30+ last season with Palermo. This meniscus seems to be more of a recent injury rather than a trend.

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

How is Liverani injury prone? He played 70+ games over 2 seasons with Fiorenina, and then 30+ last season with Palermo. This meniscus seems to be more of a recent injury rather than a trend.

That is true. I think it's of late, since last season and now so far this season. It's very disruptive as we can see, they're currently lying 10th. Also I predicted Palermo would finish 6th and this doesn't help my credibility.

Also consider it is more than likely that his best years are behind him, Palermo will be in the market soon anyway.

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I don't really like Sammarco. Never have.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Sina not liking a footballer??! What has the world come to?!

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

yeah leo, the cassano-lippi situation is getting ridiculous... as for de rossi, being part of the azzurri group he couldn't say anything else of course....he certainly couldn't contraddict lippi.
as for the "cassano boycotting" point, i don't know... if totti's entourage really had such an influence, totti would be picked up again (it's pretty obvious he would like to be an azzurro again), while lippi made it very clear that totti is not gonna wear the azzurra shirt again (wich says a lot about totti's and his entourage influence).
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as for sampdoria's midfield, my only point is 4 central midfielders for a club which doesn't play in any european competition is definitely enough. as for the individual picks, those are pretty much unquestionable, as there's not a huge quality gap between tissone, francheschini and sammarco, so other factors (that we don't know) can steer the club's choices... maybe sammarco wanted to move, maybe udinese asked for sammarco, maybe del neri thought franceschini and tissone were more suitable to his tactical project.
when the gap between the players is not wide, there are so many other factors wich can effect the club's decisions, it's impossible to tell "that is definitely a mistake".
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as for the liverani-cigarini debate, imo there's not much to discuss really... a club like palermo has to deal every season with a very small budget... and with that budget u have to build a team which can compete in a league where every team, even the last one, can be a pain in the ass (as bari proved so far). that means that u have to spend your money wisely.
selling liverani and getting cigarini wouldn't have been a smart play. first of, because, despite being a great regista, liverani's value is extremely low (he's 33 afterall). we would hardly get 2 millions for him today.... and that would have meant spending 6 millions on cigarini..... and spending 6 millions to sign a player for a position which is already covered wouldn't be smart at all.

the age factor is pretty much irrilevant.... being a regista, liverani can still mantain his standards for about 2 more years (regista's decline is much slower, given the duties they have to absolve).
cigarini is 23... but that doesn't mean he would stay in palermo for much longer than liverani.... infact there are 2 possible options.
1- cigarini fails to step up.... in which case selling liverani for him would turn out to be a very bad move.
2- cigarini becomes a star (wich is much more likely)..... in this case, he's not gonna stay in palermo for more than 2 years, as top clubs will start knocking on zamparini's door.

besides, as jason remarked, we have a very young team (liverani, miccoli and simplicio are the only over 29 we have and the average age is about 26), so a bit of experience in the starting 11 is much needed.

as for the other option (signing cigarini, holding liverani and have both of them playing in the starting formation) that would be absolutely impossible. liverani is a real maestro, but he's one of the slowest midfielders in serie a (probably the slowest), and defensively, he's really not reliable. therefore, he needs to be paired with a pure defensive midfielder (nocerino, migliaccio).... little note; the man utd example isn't really appropriate, as carrick isn't a "pure regista" and scholes is definitely not a regista

bottom line, with liverani, nocerino, simplicio and bresciano we have one of the most talented, balanced, versatile and complete midfields in italy.... so we definitely don't need to make any adjustment in that department (at the moment).

besides, let's not go too far with this injury prone thing. liverani is a 33 years old player, wich, i agree, makes it risky to put him on the fulcrum of your game..... but his injury record is really nothing special. last year he was ok all season long and played 34 matches! and according to his official data, in the past 7 years, he never played less than 30 matches per season.... this is not the record of an injury prone player

if we had 8 millions left to spend, i'd rather look for a big benchmark striker to pair with miccoli

Wait, how much was Pastore?

it was a 6 millions deal... and it was by far the most expensive signing we did this summer

Sina not liking a footballer??! What has the world come to?!

btw Sina, did any serie a club\player\story catch your interest a so far?

 

[Leo Bax]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

yeah leo, the cassano-lippi situation is getting ridiculous... as for de rossi, being part of the azzurri group he couldn't say anything else of course....he certainly couldn't contraddict lippi.
as for the "cassano boycotting" point, i don't know... if totti's entourage really had such an influence, totti would be picked up again (it's pretty obvious he would like to be an azzurro again), while lippi made it very clear that totti is not gonna wear the azzurra shirt again (wich says a lot about totti's and his entourage influence).

today in a radio a journalist fan of Roma said De Rossi always hated Cassano, since Roma times. He also said De Rossi sent a lot of provocations to him after he went to Madrid. And journalist also suggested to see the tackle De Rossi made to Cassano after 3 minute in Roma-Samp match.
About Totti's influence, I think nowadays he's the most protected footballer in Italy. I remember when Fiorenelli's lawyer criticized him: all italian politicians made an Usain Bolt sprint to defended him (I believe it's the first time in our republic's history that all politicians agreed on something). Every sunday on TV there is someone who will defend him or came with strange standings to praise him; for example I don't see that "love" to another legend like Del Piero, a gentleman who never spit, never gave an elbow and maybe never made a simulation to have a penalty. And even Roberto Baggio didn't have that protection. Sounds a lot strange to me.
About NT, I doubt he want to come back. He never shine with NT shirt, also in WC2006 he was a shadow (because of injury, clear) and IMO he decided to give all to his club (he's a totem for lot of Roma fan boys) where he's appreciated even if he play bad. A call in WC2010 will destroy his reputation: IMO he will never play good in high level football and he will easily become the most criticized player of team (with Lippi, of course)

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

as for sampdoria's midfield, my only point is 4 central midfielders for a club which doesn't play in any european competition is definitely enough. as for the individual picks, those are pretty much unquestionable, as there's not a huge quality gap between tissone, francheschini and sammarco, so other factors (that we don't know) can steer the club's choices... maybe sammarco wanted to move, maybe udinese asked for sammarco, maybe del neri thought franceschini and tissone were more suitable to his tactical project.
when the gap between the players is not wide, there are so many other factors wich can effect the club's decisions, it's impossible to tell "that is definitely a mistake".

You're right. I guess we'll never know. And so far so good for Samp, but I really hope they keep it up.

Regarding Cigarini-Liverani, I agree with most of what you say. Especially playing Liverani-Cigarini in midfield. Zenga might attempt to play Cigarini as a trequartista but that is a bit of a gamble as he's more suited to a deeplying role. It would definitely interfere with the balance of the team which you definitely don't want to do in serie A.

About Scholes not being a 'regista', I think at the moment, from what I've seen, he's the best english player in that role. The role might not be natural to him, but he does sit deep like Liverani for example, and his passing range/accuracy is phenomenal, perhaps better than Liverani he's that good.

besides, let's not go too far with this injury prone thing. liverani is a 33 years old player, wich, i agree, makes it risky to put him on the fulcrum of your game..... but his injury record is really nothing special. last year he was ok all season long and played 34 matches! and according to his official data, in the past 7 years, he never played less than 30 matches per season.... this is not the record of an injury prone player

I starting to wonder where this "injury prone" talk came from. I think Jason is to blame here I guess because when he doesn't play Palermo miss him badly, and I hardly ever see him in big games.

if we had 8 millions left to spend, i'd rather look for a big benchmark striker to pair with miccoli

Definitely. And I hear Cavani is linked with Juventus. If you can get a good price for him, I would definitely consider. Thoughts on bringing in Toni from Bayern, on loan perhaps?

it was a 6 millions deal... and it was by far the most expensive signing we did this summer

Pfft, Inter could've signed three of him if we wanted

today in a radio a journalist fan of Roma said De Rossi always hated Cassano, since Roma times.

Hmm, why is this? I guess if playing Cassano would destabilize the team, then Lippi is right to leave Cassano out.

I remember when Fiorenelli's lawyer criticized him: all italian politicians made an Usain Bolt sprint to defended him (I believe it's the first time in our republic's history that all politicians agreed on something).

Interesting comparison between Totti and Del Piero. I'm not sure but could be there's a bit of anti-Juve going on. Or maybe because Del Piero hasn't done anything worth noting for the NT (Totti at least has that back-heel pass in Euro 2000 ). But even Inter fans respect and admire Del Piero, I even own a jersey with his name printed on the back (Italian jersey, NEVER Juve).

And I hear there has been another between Lavezzi and Napoli management. I really think its down hill from here for Napoli.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Scholes is indeed a "regista", these days, having played in that role from late 2006.

He very rarely tends to make those characteristic late runs into the penalty area anymore, I suppose he doesn't have the required stamina to do that on a consistent basis these days, compared to the goal scoring midfielder he was in his heyday.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

today in a radio a journalist fan of Roma said De Rossi always hated Cassano, since Roma times. He also said De Rossi sent a lot of provocations to him after he went to Madrid. And journalist also suggested to see the tackle De Rossi made to Cassano after 3 minute in Roma-Samp match.

hate is a bit too much, but definitely every roma player (daniele included) doesn't like cassano, coz of his unacceptable attitude during his roman days.... back in the days his only friend in the dressing room was mancini.
anyhow, as i said, we really can't expect any italia player (daniele included) to contraddict lippi and admit it's a mistake not to call him up.
actually thinking to cassano's roma years, it's almost unbelievable how much antonio changed in the last 2 years

btw i'm absolutely sure de rossi wouldn't create any problems if cassano would be called up... afterall there weren't any problems in the dressing room during euro 2008.

About Totti's influence, I think nowadays he's the most protected footballer in Italy

u're definitely right here. through all his carreer, totti has always been admired and protected... some might say he deserved that admiration, for his enourmous skills.... but then again, the same could be said about del piero and baggio..... still, as u remarked, alessandro and roberto had to fight many battles in their carreers.... despite being legendary players, they always had to prove themselves (wich makes me respect them even more).

as for the national team, i'm absolutely sure totti wants back in.
just consider this. after the world cup, when donadoni was given the job, he said he wanted to retire from international football. we all thought he felt he couldn't give much more to the team and wanted to dedicate himself to roma.... but then, as soon as lippi got the job back, he started saying in interviews that he might reconsider his position. Lippi pretended he didn't notice totti's interviews, so totti made himself even more clear, by saying that if lippi would ask him, he would definitely be an azzurro again. So Lippi (in a very kind, polite and diplomatic way) said that he didn't wanna call back totti (fortunately, i'd say, as his ankles are just too messed up today, to make him a reliable asset for italy).

Interesting comparison between Totti and Del Piero. I'm not sure but could be there's a bit of anti-Juve going on. Or maybe because Del Piero hasn't done anything worth noting for the NT (Totti at least has that back-heel pass in Euro 2000)

i don't know the reason of people's different attitude towards del piero and totti..... but it's not an anti juve feeling, coz even juve fans sometimes questioned del piero (a few years back)... and i wouldn't even consider the national team factor, as totti has always been pretty much useless for italy's national team... he never really perform on his usual standards with italy's jersey.

Definitely. And I hear Cavani is linked with Juventus. If you can get a good price for him, I would definitely consider. Thoughts on bringing in Toni from Bayern, on loan perhaps?

i would definitely consider any serious offer for cavani.... as for toni, he could never come back in palermo, as the fans here can't stand him.

About Scholes not being a 'regista', I think at the moment, from what I've seen, he's the best english player in that role. The role might not be natural to him, but he does sit deep like Liverani for example, and his passing range/accuracy is phenomenal, perhaps better than Liverani he's that good.

Scholes is indeed a "regista", these days, having played in that role from late 2006.
He very rarely tends to make those characteristic late runs into the penalty area anymore, I suppose he doesn't have the required stamina to do that on a consistent basis these days, compared to the goal scoring midfielder he was in his heyday.

i'm afraid i'll have to disagree with u guys here. scholes game changed a little, of course, as he's not a kid anymore, and yes, he has a nice passing game.... but being a regista isn't just about sitting deep and displaying some nice passes.
scholes can provide some brutal accelerations to the flow of the game with his vertical passes. but raising the tempo of the game is something different from providing single accelerations.
plus he could never slow down the tempo of the game.
infact the player who absolves registas duties in man utd is not scholes, but carrick. carrick too isn't really a proper regista, but he's definitely the closest thing to a regista in man utd
paul scholes is a legend... i mean an all time legend, but he's a different kinda player... he's much closer to the young de rossi (wich was a different kinda player from the current de rossi)

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

The Cassano issue is taking more momentum than it deserves. I heard a lot of former Italian coaches(Maldini, Sachi,..) give there views on the issue and all of them said to lay off Lippi saying that coaching is a tough job and focusing on one player is wrong. Diego is also not being called up in Brazil if I am not wrong.

Here is an example, Some players just can't sit on the bench like Raul so the coach simply doesn't call them cause they might cause trouble in the group. Raul 2 years ago was in great form and was snubbed for the EURO's cause of that issue. Also the Baggio Trappatoni issue in 2001. I don't know what the situation is with Cassano.

I would love to see him but I think Lippi has made up his mind. Also Pazzini, but Lippi has a lot of faith in Gilardino, Iaquinta has been great, and I think he wants Amauri.

 

[Leo Bax]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

hate is a bit too much, but definitely every roma player (daniele included) doesn't like cassano, coz of his unacceptable attitude during his roman days....

he was referring to Cassano's last year in Rome. when he played only some matches and then went to Madrid. And he said in post months De Rossi sent some procovations to him (praticamente ha detto che negli ultimi mesi non lo sopporta più e che da gennaio in poi in alcune interviste gli lanciò delle provocazioni, alla luce anche delle 11 vittorie consecutive e della ritrovata armonia nello spogliatoio. ed ha oltretutto parlato del tackle che ho detto prima)

as for the national team, i'm absolutely sure totti wants back in.
just consider this. after the world cup, when donadoni was given the job, he said he wanted to retire from international football. we all thought he felt he couldn't give much more to the team and wanted to dedicate himself to roma.... but then, as soon as lippi got the job back, he started saying in interviews that he might reconsider his position. Lippi pretended he didn't notice totti's interviews, so totti made himself even more clear, by saying that if lippi would ask him, he would definitely be an azzurro again. So Lippi (in a very kind, polite and diplomatic way) said that he didn't wanna call back totti (fortunately, i'd say, as his ankles are just too messed up today, to make him a reliable asset for italy).

This can be true. But IMO this can be his ultimate flop: we are not going to shine in next WC

i don't know the reason of people's different attitude towards del piero and totti..... but it's not an anti juve feeling, coz even juve fans sometimes questioned del piero (a few years back)... and i wouldn't even consider the national team factor, as totti has always been pretty much useless for italy's national team... he never really perform on his usual standards with italy's jersey.

I'm an Inter "fan" (simpatizzante), so basically I have to hate both of them, because Del Piero is the Juventus flag and Totti say too much times that "we steal matches" (and they are angels, obliviously ). But apart performance they did, I can't deny who is a gentleman and who is rude: Del Piero is a player known for his correct behavior, Totti instead have an hard career, with spitting, elbowing, 3-times "fu** you" to the refeer, punchs to Portanova or Manninger, simulations, questionable interviews... They haven't the same character and that's why IMO a "I have to hate both of them"-man like me is now appreciating Del Piero and despising Totti. Obliviously for the same reasons I will forever appreciate Maldini who was the Milan flag, or Scholes or Giggs or other players like them.

Raul 2 years ago was in great form and was snubbed for the EURO's cause of that issue. Also the Baggio Trappatoni issue in 2001. I don't know what the situation is with Cassano.

No mate, Baggio wanted to be called only to be part of that group. he surely knowed Totti had his peak, so Totti and Vieri was the incredible duo that we had that year (plus Del Piero and Montella). Saldy there wasn't space for Baggio

and I think he wants Amauri.

who doesn't score since 7 months

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Yeah I'm definitely a bigger fan of Del Piero than Totti.

Ben, I haven't had opportunities to watch that many full Serie A matches. A little bit here and there and sometimes half a match or highlights, but from the bits of I've seen, I think the Japanese kid Moritomo from Catania definitely has something about him though! He's already shown some of what he can do and last night in his debut for Japan had a hand in both goals against Scotland. Might become a very good player.

Sina not liking a footballer??! What has the world come to?!

Lol, well I don't have anything against him personally but what I mean is, Sammarco never impressed me. Even when he was being featured regularly in Italy U-21, when I watched him, I never got the sense that, THIS guy will make the senior Azzuri squad and he'll turn out special. He was always quite mediocre from what I saw and even when he did a couple nice things, he disappointed as well with many other 'decision-makings'.

So overall, I personally am not one who rates him highly or would care much for having him in my squad let alone my team. But he is a decent player, certainly not a BAD one.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT:

By the way, about the whole Cassano fiasco going on, I'm not TOO bothered. Yes, I acknowledge that he has been superb for awhile now and even his attitude has improved (though I don't think he'll ever exactly become a role model lol) and he DOES deserve to be in the team based on his stellar performances.

Having said that, this is not the first nor the last time that a player won't be in the dressing room/squad because either the coach feels, he may defy his authority and he might lose some control over the whole group (especially an authoritative man like Lippi who would not risk anything to see his authority possibly diminish) or that for one reason or probably more, despite his special skills as a footballer, he will actually be a detriment to team overall. Everything else considered.

So as a neutral and one who admires Antonio's talent, do I want to see him selected and deliver his exemplary skills on the pitch for the Azzuri? I Do. But do I also understand Lippi's stubbornness and not wanting to gamble on this type of character despite what some people say about how his attitude is supposedly SOooo much better (as if suddenly Antonio is now a SAINT haha) , Yes I do that too. So I say let the coach do what he thinks is best and if that means no Cassano, then no Cassano. Though I personally would like to see him get called up, I respect Lippi to follow his heart and what he thinks is best. After all, he's the one who's been appointed the job based on real qualifications, not the journalist, not the media guy, not the millions of fans who are all entitled to their opinion and certainly not me and he's delivered before. This of course doesn't mean Lippi is always right nor any coach for that matter. I personally disagree with him on this matter for example and would give Cassano another chance. But I think his decision needs to be respected and not consistently brought up and discussed over and over again.

I don't know what his deal with Pazzini is though!? Does he not like his style of play? Or is that somehow Cassano related as well seeing as how probably by now, Giampaolo and Antonio are very good friends and of course lead the Sampdoria attack together. Either way, these are two players who I rate highly as footballers but NOT as human beings or attitude wise. Giampaolo included, he's also a bit of a cunt like Cassano imo.

 

[jmg721]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Ben, I haven't had opportunities to watch that many full Serie A matches. A little bit here and there and sometimes half a match or highlights, but from the bits of I've seen, I think the Japanese kid Moritomo from Catania definitely has something about him though! He's already shown some of what he can do and last night in his debut for Japan had a hand in both goals against Scotland. Might become a very good player.

I like Taka a lot. I watched him a lot last season, and a little this season. I really hope he gains a little size, because he is a straight forward CF, and it is hard to succeed at this level with mainly your good positioning(unless you are Pippo). He seems to have a really good feel for getting him self in the right positions(IMO better than Lanzafame, Cavani, Acquafresca...maybe on par with Paloschi), and has improved his finishing qualities a little. He is very quick, and does well to draw fouls with that. He also puts in a ton of effort on the field, and is likely the main reason he has been a mainstay in the starting 11 for Catania.

Either way, these are two players who I rate highly as footballers but NOT as human beings or attitude wise. Giampaolo included, he's also a bit of a cunt like Cassano imo.

I am as the emoticon suggests...shocked. I never got that impression of him from his time at Fiorentina. Seemed to be a very selfless player, just one who was unable to create goals on his own. Never game across as a "cunt" on the pitch. But I really never paid attention to articles or anything like that. His understanding on the pitch with Cassano makes me think they are on the same page in more than just football. Not surprised they are good friends...because they play like it. But really surprised to hear him being a cunt...common isn't he good friends with Montolivo?? And Montolivo seems like a pussy cat

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Yah Ricardo is like that lol but I don't even know if they are good friends with Antonio or Ricardo or not, that was just my guess too and yah I think him and Cassano are sorta on the same page. More than just footballing wise.. I get that feeling too.

Reading back on it now, I was a little bit harsh on Giampaolo but he does have a bit of attitude, a bit of temper and for me is no class act nor a selfless player. But yah he's not that bad or anything, that's why I called him a little 'bit' of a cunt lol. But perhaps and probably calling him a cunt is harsh altogether as there are thousands of worse players.

 

[gigimarulla]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

a little offtopic from cassano's discussion...
look at this: it represents how football is dead, substituted by money and merchandising... this is a black & light blue scarf of juventus , sold in juve's store in these days

YouTube - La sciarpa nerazzurra della Juventus

 

[Leo Bax]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I will buy it