Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
3rd place!!!!!
3rd place!!!!!
Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season
- Thread starter Professor Nutmeg
- Start date
sauce
Warriors
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Thanks mate, I've been trying to watch more Serie A and Bundesliga these days, these two were my first European leagues I followed.
Bundesliga pace changed a bit its very similar to the EPL now,
Serie A still quality, the pace sometimes might look slow, but the passing and tactical still amazes me.
Been watching a lot of Milan games, including the two games against Madrid, that could be resumed in 90 fantastic minutes, last 45 of Madrid and first 45 at Milan.
Saw todays match too, a bit disappointed with Lazio though,
I was surprised when I saw where they are at the table.
I'll try to keep up with the thread, but this is by far the most complete thread for a league and sometimes is too much for reading, but I'm not complaining
Thats why it took me a while to jump in the Luis Fabiano and Carlos Alberto topic.
thanks for the contribution sauce. u should really pop in this thread more often pal... i always enjoy reading your posts
Thanks mate, I've been trying to watch more Serie A and Bundesliga these days, these two were my first European leagues I followed.
Bundesliga pace changed a bit its very similar to the EPL now,
Serie A still quality, the pace sometimes might look slow, but the passing and tactical still amazes me.
Been watching a lot of Milan games, including the two games against Madrid, that could be resumed in 90 fantastic minutes, last 45 of Madrid and first 45 at Milan.
Saw todays match too, a bit disappointed with Lazio though,
I was surprised when I saw where they are at the table.
I'll try to keep up with the thread, but this is by far the most complete thread for a league and sometimes is too much for reading, but I'm not complaining
Thats why it took me a while to jump in the Luis Fabiano and Carlos Alberto topic.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
some years ago I read it in an interview to Maradona
I know I knowthanks for the contribution sauce. u should really pop in this thread more often pal... i always enjoy reading your posts
Gerd.... is that phrase in your signature what i think it is?... and if it's what i think it is... where the hell did u hear about it ?!?
i would expect an italian napoli fan to know about it.... but i believe even some italians (non napoli fans) don't know what that phrase refers to.
some years ago I read it in an interview to Maradona
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
bundi had an unbelievable evolution indeed.... and it's not just about a pace growth (fortunately
). the quality of the football improved. they must have improved something in the coaches education process, as from a tactical point of view, bundesliga teams had a dramatic step up in the last 10 years. and they even learned how to defend! ( 
).
seriously though, bundesliga is better than premier league and serie a on many levels.... infact that is probably the most "all-around" league in europe today. from an athletic point of view, they're pretty close to epl... from a technical point of view they're not so far from serie a and la liga, from a tactical point of view, they're easily the only league which gets close to serie a (today in bundi, almost every team plays its own football....almost each teams has its own tactical imprinting and plays in a different way and this variety makes all the difference in the world).... and the "environmental factor" (quality of the stadia and facilities, stadia expectance, fans contribution to the atmosphere of the match) are top notch too.
they're not "the best ones" in any particular aspect... but they come second in almost every aspect, and that makes bundi the most balanced league in europe. they don't have the highest techinical level of la liga, neither the the unreachable tactical variety of serie a, but their football is still light years ahead of epl football in terms of quality.... while, concerning the athletic aspect, they're not really on par with epl, but still much better than serie a and la liga.
in the end, when u watch a bundesliga, u know u're watching a football match... and not a horrible pinball game with no logical sense, no plot, no quality at all...(sorry.. this week end i watched man city-burnley and west ham-everton....and i'm still pissed off for wasting 180 minutes of my life like that).
---------------------------------------------------------------
yeah, lazio is having one of his worst seasons in history... they have some serious dressing room issues, as some players who wanted to leave this summer (pandev and ledesma) are causing some big problems to the whole club.
milan, on the other side, is with no doubts the weirdest football team i've seen in the last few years. this new tactic of leonardo is soo old fashioned, so outmoded... yet it seems to be working like a charm.
anyhow it's not gonna last imo (don't wanna jinx milan fans). this gameplan is just too peculiar, and leaves too much room to the opponents for the break at midfield...... every serie a coach who is about to face milan is studying leonardo's tactic now..... and in 1 month (tops) someone will find the right countermeasures...
that's the toughest law of serie a... it's some sort of darwininan theory applied to football tactics; only those who can adapt will survive!
@ Leo: u heard about that graffiti years ago in an interview and u still remember it? u have quite a memory, sir!
p.s. as i wrote before, this week i decided to get back in touch with some proper british football, by watching 2 mid-class teams matches......(last season i promised to myself i would have never watched any epl match other than the top teams match)
well, the only thing i wanna say is that i'll never complain anymore about zenga's coaching skills.... never!
bundi had an unbelievable evolution indeed.... and it's not just about a pace growth (fortunately
). the quality of the football improved. they must have improved something in the coaches education process, as from a tactical point of view, bundesliga teams had a dramatic step up in the last 10 years. and they even learned how to defend! ( ).seriously though, bundesliga is better than premier league and serie a on many levels.... infact that is probably the most "all-around" league in europe today. from an athletic point of view, they're pretty close to epl... from a technical point of view they're not so far from serie a and la liga, from a tactical point of view, they're easily the only league which gets close to serie a (today in bundi, almost every team plays its own football....almost each teams has its own tactical imprinting and plays in a different way and this variety makes all the difference in the world).... and the "environmental factor" (quality of the stadia and facilities, stadia expectance, fans contribution to the atmosphere of the match) are top notch too.
they're not "the best ones" in any particular aspect... but they come second in almost every aspect, and that makes bundi the most balanced league in europe. they don't have the highest techinical level of la liga, neither the the unreachable tactical variety of serie a, but their football is still light years ahead of epl football in terms of quality.... while, concerning the athletic aspect, they're not really on par with epl, but still much better than serie a and la liga.
in the end, when u watch a bundesliga, u know u're watching a football match... and not a horrible pinball game with no logical sense, no plot, no quality at all...(sorry.. this week end i watched man city-burnley and west ham-everton....and i'm still pissed off for wasting 180 minutes of my life like that).
---------------------------------------------------------------
yeah, lazio is having one of his worst seasons in history... they have some serious dressing room issues, as some players who wanted to leave this summer (pandev and ledesma) are causing some big problems to the whole club.
milan, on the other side, is with no doubts the weirdest football team i've seen in the last few years. this new tactic of leonardo is soo old fashioned, so outmoded... yet it seems to be working like a charm.
anyhow it's not gonna last imo (don't wanna jinx milan fans). this gameplan is just too peculiar, and leaves too much room to the opponents for the break at midfield...... every serie a coach who is about to face milan is studying leonardo's tactic now..... and in 1 month (tops) someone will find the right countermeasures...
that's the toughest law of serie a... it's some sort of darwininan theory applied to football tactics; only those who can adapt will survive!
@ Leo: u heard about that graffiti years ago in an interview and u still remember it? u have quite a memory, sir!
p.s. as i wrote before, this week i decided to get back in touch with some proper british football, by watching 2 mid-class teams matches......(last season i promised to myself i would have never watched any epl match other than the top teams match)
well, the only thing i wanna say is that i'll never complain anymore about zenga's coaching skills.... never!
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gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Ben, i don't know what you are thinking...but i think you think right because you mention Napoli...so all i have to mention is "graveyard"....
It's not because i can't see much Italian football, that i don't read about it...i read lots about it and the more i read, the more i love it and the country where it's played...
Ben, i don't know what you are thinking...but i think you think right because you mention Napoli...so all i have to mention is "graveyard"....
It's not because i can't see much Italian football, that i don't read about it...i read lots about it and the more i read, the more i love it and the country where it's played...
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
no I read it a couple of years ago in an italian forum, BTW for italians you can read here the interview I talked
no I read it a couple of years ago in an italian forum, BTW for italians you can read here the interview I talked
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
That is exactly the reason why i maintain that the Premiership isn't the best league in the world. The big four are among the 10 best teams in the world, but there is an abyss gaping between the big four and the rest of the teams.
p.s. as i wrote before, this week i decided to get back in touch with some proper british football, by watching 2 mid-class teams matches......(last season i promised to myself i would have never watched any epl match other than the top teams match)
well, the only thing i wanna say is that i'll never complain anymore about zenga's coaching skills.... never!
That is exactly the reason why i maintain that the Premiership isn't the best league in the world. The big four are among the 10 best teams in the world, but there is an abyss gaping between the big four and the rest of the teams.
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
That used to be the case but at least a few of them are catching up now. Aston Villa, Tottenham and nowadays Man City with their money-bags have closed the gap somewhat in my opinion.
@sauce, I know what you mean. But that 'spirit' also had its downside right, it got him in trouble.... I guess for players like him, it's really hard to play passionately without turning into a total dickhead! lol
Damiano Tommassi! Remember him guys? One of my fav players ever. Now this guy played with PASSION. Always gave a 100% and was a very effective player but also very classy. He still plays I hear... hasn't retired yet... maybe he'll return to Roma one day as a non-player!
@Ben, Agree except I'd say 2 things,
1) In terms of 'environment' factor that you mentioned, Bundesliga IS the best I believe. Not 2nd best. And I think they have the highest average attendances in their league in all of Europe if not world and by a good amount of difference to 2nd place league as well.
2) There ARE good EPL mid-table/lower-table matches as well. You can't really give it a fair evaluation based on two games and get pissed off and come back next season and maybe by accident watch a couple bad ones again and confirm that opinion. But yah maybe not AS many good matches from those teams as you'd see in Serie A. I get your point but I honestly think you're being too harsh/unfair.
That used to be the case but at least a few of them are catching up now. Aston Villa, Tottenham and nowadays Man City with their money-bags have closed the gap somewhat in my opinion.
@sauce, I know what you mean. But that 'spirit' also had its downside right, it got him in trouble.... I guess for players like him, it's really hard to play passionately without turning into a total dickhead! lol
Damiano Tommassi! Remember him guys? One of my fav players ever. Now this guy played with PASSION. Always gave a 100% and was a very effective player but also very classy. He still plays I hear... hasn't retired yet... maybe he'll return to Roma one day as a non-player!
@Ben, Agree except I'd say 2 things,
1) In terms of 'environment' factor that you mentioned, Bundesliga IS the best I believe. Not 2nd best. And I think they have the highest average attendances in their league in all of Europe if not world and by a good amount of difference to 2nd place league as well.
2) There ARE good EPL mid-table/lower-table matches as well. You can't really give it a fair evaluation based on two games and get pissed off and come back next season and maybe by accident watch a couple bad ones again and confirm that opinion. But yah maybe not AS many good matches from those teams as you'd see in Serie A. I get your point but I honestly think you're being too harsh/unfair.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Well Sina, as a Spurs fan, i have to say that i do not agree with you: Spurs, Villa and Man City haven't closed the gap IMHO.
Spurs started the season very good, if you watched the match against Arsenal you will know that they are nowhere near the 4 big clubs.
Man City is having draw after draw against fairly mediocre teams, so that is far from a top team too.
Aston Villa (and maybe Everton) are closer to the top four IMHO, but they have not enough financial resources to close the gap...both teams have a squad that is too narrow, hence the fact that Villa failed to capitalise last season...
It could be that at the end of this year's competition, one of the teams you mentioned breaks in the top 4, but that will be because teams like Liverpool and Man Utd are making mistakes...so it would be less their merits. Liverpool and (less) Man Utd seem vulnerable this year...
Well Sina, as a Spurs fan, i have to say that i do not agree with you: Spurs, Villa and Man City haven't closed the gap IMHO.
Spurs started the season very good, if you watched the match against Arsenal you will know that they are nowhere near the 4 big clubs.
Man City is having draw after draw against fairly mediocre teams, so that is far from a top team too.
Aston Villa (and maybe Everton) are closer to the top four IMHO, but they have not enough financial resources to close the gap...both teams have a squad that is too narrow, hence the fact that Villa failed to capitalise last season...
It could be that at the end of this year's competition, one of the teams you mentioned breaks in the top 4, but that will be because teams like Liverpool and Man Utd are making mistakes...so it would be less their merits. Liverpool and (less) Man Utd seem vulnerable this year...
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
well maybe "catching up" is a bit of a stretch, they're surely closing the gap. Gerd u're right when u say they're still far from the top 4... but to notice if they're moving in the right direction, u gotta compare theese teams to what they were a few years ago. is man city a stronger team than 10 years ago? and tottenham? and aston villa?..... sure they're "improving" in the stupidest way... without a real footballing project, without a tactical guide, without competent team directors.... they just throw their money away overpaying players they don't even know if they actually need (and it's not coz of the domestic market prices... as they overpay even foreing players who come from abroad)........ anyway, just look at the final result. 5 years ago tottenham was a poor team, with average players, which used to play poor football.... today (at least investments\results wise) they're still quite a poor team (coz honestly the quality of their football had a ridiculous improvement, especially compared to the financial efforts they went through), but they have some great players... and even though u can often feel the same "randomness" in their football, we just can't deny they're closer to the top 4 than they were 5 years ago.
anyhow i gotta say i'm referring to last season tottenham, as so far this season i watched just 2 spurs match (wich is not enough to say i know how they play of course), so as far as i know, today they might even be playing like sampdoria, genoa or fiorentina (although i find it hard to believe that ).
the problems with theese "almost top clubs" is that u will inevitably tend to compare them with their italian counterparts.... and that's where their failure is more evident.
global market value, incomes, transfer market outcomes, wages balance...... according to each of theese entries tottenham, aston villa, man city and even everton (!) are much bigger clubs than fiorentina (wich is the richest "almost top club" in italy). everton spent twice the money fiorentina spent in the last 2 years...wich means about 4 times the money udinese spent.... and i'm not even mentioning a comparison with sampdoria, as that would be just too embarassing.....and that's talking about everton (which is seen as a "club without much financial resources" in england!).
tottenham, money wise (market value, transfer outcomes, wages) is on par with juventus (!) and pretty much on another planet compared to the likes of genoa, samp fiorentina, udinese and napoli.
so as soon as u throws all theese points into the equation... and as soon as u compare tottenam's football or aston villa's football to, say fiorentina or genoa, well....
and mind u, i'm not trying to establish any sort of "ranking between leagues"... i'm not really into theese nationalistic bullishit. besides, just a few pages ago, i was remarking how epl top 4 teams became better than their italian counterparts in just every possible aspect (even the ones where the italians used to rule, like tactical imprinting).
but, exactly as i'm aware of serie a's issues, i can easily notice epl's issues too.
the thing is i got to know pretty well man city last season..... and what i saw this week end is exactly the same team i watched (several times) last season.... wich brings me to believe that this team playes exactly the same nonsense, appalling football they used to play last season. run-long ball, run-long ball, run-long ball.... jeez after 90 minutes of that shit u must be going nuts.... and all my respect goes to their stoic fans, who pay money to support their team and subject themselves to such a painful treatment every week... i know i could never bare this.... after a couple of minutes i would start screaming "start playing some football, for crying out loud! stop running with your eyes on the ball like donkeys! and have the ball running! keep the ball on the ground and stop wasting your plays with those long balls that always end in a possession loss!"
if that were the first time i've seen man city playing this way, of course it would be extremely shortsighted to label them already..... but what i saw yesterday, is pretty much the same pathetic show i've been watching last season on a pretty consistant basis.
how can a team with so many quality players play this way is something that goes beyond my understanding..... i mean, i' not expecting them to play like cagliari or parma or chievo (even though, roster-wise they're supposed to.... actually they should be even better than those teams).
i don't expect them to have the technical flair of spanish midclass teams or the passing game of italian midclass teams.... but why can't they play some good english football.
there's this wrong stereotype that english football is all about physical impact and pressing.... no quality, no technique or tactical sophistication, just long balls and runs.... that is just not true. there is quality english football, as hodgson proved last season. his fulham wasn't really on par with its italian and spanish counterparts, but it still was very enjoyable to watch..... and it still was the very best team in premiership, behind the top 4, football wise.... even compared to aston villa and everton (wich were the only "almost decent" teams in terms of playing style, out of the top 4) that little mighty fulham was on another league.
and since that was also a very succesful team (last season fulham did great things), why nobody is studiyng it? why they all keep spending and buying fancy players they don't even need and don't even bother noticing that this strategy is not helping them playing better football.... why nobody thinks "what's the point in buying fine passers, if we keep bypassing the entire midfield with those long balls?" how can they watch fulham playing and not realise what a massive failure they are. how can they keep spending money on the transfer market, without noticing that the roster they already have should already guarantee so much more quality than they actually display? shouldn't this evident, undenyable fact persuade them that the roster is not the issue to address to, in order to improve their football? that their problems lie in other departments?
and u know what? i'm also sure that if u would ask to all the epl teams sport directors who are the epl best coaches, beside the top 4, they would all come up with hughes, redknapp, o'neill.... no one would even think about "good old Roy Hodgson".
i stand corrected
i didn't even know he was still playing. it would be great to know what he's up to, so guys, if u have any news, report!
well maybe "catching up" is a bit of a stretch, they're surely closing the gap. Gerd u're right when u say they're still far from the top 4... but to notice if they're moving in the right direction, u gotta compare theese teams to what they were a few years ago. is man city a stronger team than 10 years ago? and tottenham? and aston villa?..... sure they're "improving" in the stupidest way... without a real footballing project, without a tactical guide, without competent team directors.... they just throw their money away overpaying players they don't even know if they actually need (and it's not coz of the domestic market prices... as they overpay even foreing players who come from abroad)........ anyway, just look at the final result. 5 years ago tottenham was a poor team, with average players, which used to play poor football.... today (at least investments\results wise) they're still quite a poor team (coz honestly the quality of their football had a ridiculous improvement, especially compared to the financial efforts they went through), but they have some great players... and even though u can often feel the same "randomness" in their football, we just can't deny they're closer to the top 4 than they were 5 years ago.
anyhow i gotta say i'm referring to last season tottenham, as so far this season i watched just 2 spurs match (wich is not enough to say i know how they play of course), so as far as i know, today they might even be playing like sampdoria, genoa or fiorentina (although i find it hard to believe that
).the problems with theese "almost top clubs" is that u will inevitably tend to compare them with their italian counterparts.... and that's where their failure is more evident.
global market value, incomes, transfer market outcomes, wages balance...... according to each of theese entries tottenham, aston villa, man city and even everton (!) are much bigger clubs than fiorentina (wich is the richest "almost top club" in italy). everton spent twice the money fiorentina spent in the last 2 years...wich means about 4 times the money udinese spent.... and i'm not even mentioning a comparison with sampdoria, as that would be just too embarassing.....and that's talking about everton (which is seen as a "club without much financial resources" in england!).
tottenham, money wise (market value, transfer outcomes, wages) is on par with juventus (!) and pretty much on another planet compared to the likes of genoa, samp fiorentina, udinese and napoli.
so as soon as u throws all theese points into the equation... and as soon as u compare tottenam's football or aston villa's football to, say fiorentina or genoa, well....
and mind u, i'm not trying to establish any sort of "ranking between leagues"... i'm not really into theese nationalistic bullishit. besides, just a few pages ago, i was remarking how epl top 4 teams became better than their italian counterparts in just every possible aspect (even the ones where the italians used to rule, like tactical imprinting).
but, exactly as i'm aware of serie a's issues, i can easily notice epl's issues too.
and i can definitely understand why u get this feeling. indeed i would be a complete fool if i pretended to express any sort of judgement on a team after just a couple of matches.....PLF said:
the thing is i got to know pretty well man city last season..... and what i saw this week end is exactly the same team i watched (several times) last season.... wich brings me to believe that this team playes exactly the same nonsense, appalling football they used to play last season. run-long ball, run-long ball, run-long ball.... jeez after 90 minutes of that shit u must be going nuts.... and all my respect goes to their stoic fans, who pay money to support their team and subject themselves to such a painful treatment every week... i know i could never bare this.... after a couple of minutes i would start screaming "start playing some football, for crying out loud! stop running with your eyes on the ball like donkeys! and have the ball running! keep the ball on the ground and stop wasting your plays with those long balls that always end in a possession loss!"
if that were the first time i've seen man city playing this way, of course it would be extremely shortsighted to label them already..... but what i saw yesterday, is pretty much the same pathetic show i've been watching last season on a pretty consistant basis.
how can a team with so many quality players play this way is something that goes beyond my understanding..... i mean, i' not expecting them to play like cagliari or parma or chievo (even though, roster-wise they're supposed to.... actually they should be even better than those teams).
i don't expect them to have the technical flair of spanish midclass teams or the passing game of italian midclass teams.... but why can't they play some good english football.
there's this wrong stereotype that english football is all about physical impact and pressing.... no quality, no technique or tactical sophistication, just long balls and runs.... that is just not true. there is quality english football, as hodgson proved last season. his fulham wasn't really on par with its italian and spanish counterparts, but it still was very enjoyable to watch..... and it still was the very best team in premiership, behind the top 4, football wise.... even compared to aston villa and everton (wich were the only "almost decent" teams in terms of playing style, out of the top 4) that little mighty fulham was on another league.
and since that was also a very succesful team (last season fulham did great things), why nobody is studiyng it? why they all keep spending and buying fancy players they don't even need and don't even bother noticing that this strategy is not helping them playing better football.... why nobody thinks "what's the point in buying fine passers, if we keep bypassing the entire midfield with those long balls?" how can they watch fulham playing and not realise what a massive failure they are. how can they keep spending money on the transfer market, without noticing that the roster they already have should already guarantee so much more quality than they actually display? shouldn't this evident, undenyable fact persuade them that the roster is not the issue to address to, in order to improve their football? that their problems lie in other departments?
and u know what? i'm also sure that if u would ask to all the epl teams sport directors who are the epl best coaches, beside the top 4, they would all come up with hughes, redknapp, o'neill.... no one would even think about "good old Roy Hodgson".
oups, completely forgot about that, when i wrote "they're not the best ones in any particular department".... my bad... i absolutely agree with u. their facilities must be even more top class than the english ones (and i'm saying "must" just coz i haven't been in germany since the palermo-shalcke draw in uefa cup a few years ago, so i haven't been in a german stadium since the world cup), the average attendance is indeed the highest in europe and the fans are great.PLF said:
i stand corrected
oh boy i haven't heard of damiano in a while! where did he end up? he's such a nice fella... he's such a gentle, kind and polite person, del piero would seem marilyn manson compared to him!PLF said:
i didn't even know he was still playing. it would be great to know what he's up to, so guys, if u have any news, report!
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Hey there
Band Geek Mafia
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Damiano Tommasi is now playng in Tianjin Teda, a chinese team (The same where Stig Tøfting - do you remember him? - used to play).
Probably will go back to Hellas Verona this year
Damiano Tommasi is now playng in Tianjin Teda, a chinese team (The same where Stig Tøfting - do you remember him? - used to play).
Probably will go back to Hellas Verona this year
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
What a great post Ben, i couldn't agree more...
What a great post Ben, i couldn't agree more...
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
actually I heard is playing in a team in 1st category (or 2nd or 3rd?), which is the 8th level in Italian leagues I think this means he can't run at all anymore 
and it's probably near to his home so he takes it easy and plays some football.
But the question is, do those mid-cat italian teams beat the crap out of the english ones in a match thanks to the tactics? Or do the sheer strenght and pace of the english football have the win?
actually I heard is playing in a team in 1st category (or 2nd or 3rd?), which is the 8th level in Italian leagues
I think this means he can't run at all anymore and it's probably near to his home so he takes it easy and plays some football.But the question is, do those mid-cat italian teams beat the crap out of the english ones in a match thanks to the tactics? Or do the sheer strenght and pace of the english football have the win?
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
it is not about being a better football team; it's about playing good football. palermo this season is slightly better than last season. yet last season we played a much better football. there's no doubt man city was better than fulham last season. but that doesn't change the fact that watching man city playing was pure pain, while that fulham was a nice little clockwork. if they would have met each others in 10 consecutive matches, maybe man city would have even won most of em (thanks to individual efforts or any other possible variable)..... but, again, that doesn't change the fact that is a shame to watch so much potential wasted.
and by the way, by good football, i don't necessarily mean tactically evoluted football. a high pace can be a winning factor, when u put that pace to good use, while tactics, on the other side, can sometimes become a loosing factor when they're so invasive to harness the players instinct.
spanish mid class teams aren't really much more sophisticated than their english counterparts, speaking of tactics.... but they still play good football, as they put their own qualities (which are different from the italian team's qualities and the english ones) to good use.
u watch getafe playing, say, 5 matches, and u get to know them. u understand what's the team's "footballing personality", how they play, what they will tend to do when they get the ball. it doesn't take a great tactical strategist to give an indentity to a team. u just have to know how do u wanna your players to play and be able to explain it to them (and have them following your directives, of course)..... i've been watching dozens of mid class british teams in the last 5 years, and i never had the feeling any of their coaches had any idea about how having them playing...... because no matter how many times i watched the same teams playing i just couldn't figure out any sort of pattern....... because there wasn't any patter at all.
a couple of years ago montella during an interview told a story quite significant about his premiership experience. he said "we just lost this match in such a bad way.... i could realise how serious our mistakes were even from the pitch.... after the match, once in the dressing room, i obviously expected the coach to come and yell at us, i expected him to show us the video of the match to remark all the wrong movements we did on the pitch.... coz that's what usually happens.... the coach notices the issues and, after the match, he shows the players their mistakes with some video support... so they won't do it again...... well the coach (if i remember well it was coleman) popped in the dressing room for a sec.... and told us "too bad guys, but u did your best out there.... see you monday at the training"
now that's what i'm talking about! this is not coaching.
bottom line, i'm not trying to establish a supremacy of italian football qualities over english football qualities.... i say play spanish football, german football, english football, play your own football..... but play football! coz what i saw sathurday (and during the whole last season) from man city is just not football... not english football, nor spanish or italian... that's nothing.
and unfortunately, most of mid\low class epl teams play (or should i say "don't play") this way.
it is not about being a better football team; it's about playing good football. palermo this season is slightly better than last season. yet last season we played a much better football. there's no doubt man city was better than fulham last season. but that doesn't change the fact that watching man city playing was pure pain, while that fulham was a nice little clockwork. if they would have met each others in 10 consecutive matches, maybe man city would have even won most of em (thanks to individual efforts or any other possible variable)..... but, again, that doesn't change the fact that is a shame to watch so much potential wasted.
and by the way, by good football, i don't necessarily mean tactically evoluted football. a high pace can be a winning factor, when u put that pace to good use, while tactics, on the other side, can sometimes become a loosing factor when they're so invasive to harness the players instinct.
spanish mid class teams aren't really much more sophisticated than their english counterparts, speaking of tactics.... but they still play good football, as they put their own qualities (which are different from the italian team's qualities and the english ones) to good use.
u watch getafe playing, say, 5 matches, and u get to know them. u understand what's the team's "footballing personality", how they play, what they will tend to do when they get the ball. it doesn't take a great tactical strategist to give an indentity to a team. u just have to know how do u wanna your players to play and be able to explain it to them (and have them following your directives, of course)..... i've been watching dozens of mid class british teams in the last 5 years, and i never had the feeling any of their coaches had any idea about how having them playing...... because no matter how many times i watched the same teams playing i just couldn't figure out any sort of pattern....... because there wasn't any patter at all.
a couple of years ago montella during an interview told a story quite significant about his premiership experience. he said "we just lost this match in such a bad way.... i could realise how serious our mistakes were even from the pitch.... after the match, once in the dressing room, i obviously expected the coach to come and yell at us, i expected him to show us the video of the match to remark all the wrong movements we did on the pitch.... coz that's what usually happens.... the coach notices the issues and, after the match, he shows the players their mistakes with some video support... so they won't do it again...... well the coach (if i remember well it was coleman) popped in the dressing room for a sec.... and told us "too bad guys, but u did your best out there.... see you monday at the training"
now that's what i'm talking about! this is not coaching.
bottom line, i'm not trying to establish a supremacy of italian football qualities over english football qualities.... i say play spanish football, german football, english football, play your own football..... but play football! coz what i saw sathurday (and during the whole last season) from man city is just not football... not english football, nor spanish or italian... that's nothing.
and unfortunately, most of mid\low class epl teams play (or should i say "don't play") this way.
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gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I think i know why most British "coaches" are not articulated where tactics are concerned. Simply because they are managers, directors of football....i think they are doing too much different things. I think they simply don't have enough time to devote themselves to the tacticale side of things...This has changed with the arrival of foreign managers like Wenger (the most important transfer in the history of English football).
I think i know why most British "coaches" are not articulated where tactics are concerned. Simply because they are managers, directors of football....i think they are doing too much different things. I think they simply don't have enough time to devote themselves to the tacticale side of things...This has changed with the arrival of foreign managers like Wenger (the most important transfer in the history of English football).
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
a coach assignment doesn't take more than 35 hours a week (plus they got a staff).... it's definitely not a matter of time...
plus if they would be so busy coz of the "management" aspect, u would expect them to be pretty good at that (at the very least).
yet, when it comes to the financial part of the job, the team building aspect, the management aspect, epl clubs are by far the worst in europe.....
and i'm not trying to compare english managers to genius like corvino, monchi, marino, marotta or leonardi.....i'm talking about the average level of spanish team directors (wich is better than the english) of the italian team directors (which is much better than the english) and the german team directors (which is hugely better than the english).
now that i think about, Sina, i just remembered another department where german teams lead the way: sport directors.... they don't have any genius (like corvino or marino) but the average level is extremely high.... i'm not sure if it's even higher than the italian standard but at the very least, they're on par with us.
the huge number of unknown talents discovered by italian and german teams.... the amazing squads italian and german team directors built with 1/5 of the funds everton can count on (nevermind man city) is there to remark the average quality of english team managers and coach-managers, i'm afraid.
a coach assignment doesn't take more than 35 hours a week (plus they got a staff).... it's definitely not a matter of time...
plus if they would be so busy coz of the "management" aspect, u would expect them to be pretty good at that (at the very least).
yet, when it comes to the financial part of the job, the team building aspect, the management aspect, epl clubs are by far the worst in europe.....
and i'm not trying to compare english managers to genius like corvino, monchi, marino, marotta or leonardi.....i'm talking about the average level of spanish team directors (wich is better than the english) of the italian team directors (which is much better than the english) and the german team directors (which is hugely better than the english).
now that i think about, Sina, i just remembered another department where german teams lead the way: sport directors.... they don't have any genius (like corvino or marino) but the average level is extremely high.... i'm not sure if it's even higher than the italian standard but at the very least, they're on par with us.
the huge number of unknown talents discovered by italian and german teams.... the amazing squads italian and german team directors built with 1/5 of the funds everton can count on (nevermind man city) is there to remark the average quality of english team managers and coach-managers, i'm afraid.
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Hey there
Band Geek Mafia
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Yeah, you're right, he plays in 2nd category (I misunderstood the meaning of "goin' back to Verona"), my bad
actually I heard is playing in a team in 1st category (or 2nd or 3rd?), which is the 8th level in Italian leagues
Yeah, you're right, he plays in 2nd category (I misunderstood the meaning of "goin' back to Verona"), my bad
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
hey Sina, do u remember that lil conversation we had last year about biondini? i remember u said something along the line of "who knows, if he keeps going like this, he might even get a call up from lippi"..... well he just got it.
he played tonite with the azzurra jersey (can't say how he played though, as i didn't watch the match).
edit:
after a quick search i found it:
the ginger italian made it! sure it was a pretty meaningless friendly test (with lost of testing pick ups like candreva and palladino), but still it takes some feat to make into the italian squad, even theese days.... and even for just a friendly match
hey Sina, do u remember that lil conversation we had last year about biondini? i remember u said something along the line of "who knows, if he keeps going like this, he might even get a call up from lippi"..... well he just got it.
he played tonite with the azzurra jersey (can't say how he played though, as i didn't watch the match). edit:
after a quick search i found it:
PLF said:
the ginger italian made it! sure it was a pretty meaningless friendly test (with lost of testing pick ups like candreva and palladino), but still it takes some feat to make into the italian squad, even theese days.... and even for just a friendly match
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Aboutreika18
Too Black, Too Strong
- 5 September 2006
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I heard Candreva started as well.
A couple of names in that Italy squad that I hadn't seen much of TBH.
I heard Candreva started as well.
A couple of names in that Italy squad that I hadn't seen much of TBH.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
yeah, i friend of mine told me he was great. this kid looks very, very very promising. lippi even said he might bring him in south africa, wich, given how tough is to get lippi's appreciation, says a lot about his talent.
yeah, i friend of mine told me he was great. this kid looks very, very very promising. lippi even said he might bring him in south africa, wich, given how tough is to get lippi's appreciation, says a lot about his talent.
Aboutreika18
Too Black, Too Strong
- 5 September 2006
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I thought it was a bit strange to put him in that 4-3-3 because there was already a creative force, Pirlo, in that side and I expected there to be Palombo and maybe another player like Marchisio or Dessena to replace De Rossi.
Looks like Lippi was definitely experimenting, it might have been a variation of one of the formations he used at the last World Cup, where Totti played behind Toni, in this case Candreva playing in the "Trequartista" role behind Gilardino but I have no idea since I didn't watch the match.
I thought it was a bit strange to put him in that 4-3-3 because there was already a creative force, Pirlo, in that side and I expected there to be Palombo and maybe another player like Marchisio or Dessena to replace De Rossi.
Looks like Lippi was definitely experimenting, it might have been a variation of one of the formations he used at the last World Cup, where Totti played behind Toni, in this case Candreva playing in the "Trequartista" role behind Gilardino but I have no idea since I didn't watch the match.
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Yes, I remember it very well Ben. Was it last year? wow.. it didn't seem THAT long ago too me... time flies!
I didn't watch the match either, so I'm not sure how he played but it's definitely great to see a Ginger Italian!
Congratulations to Davide Biondini! Hardwork pays off! And although I haven't had the pleasure of watching him that many times in my life, when I have, the guy who looks like a 'foreigner' has always tried hard and did his best!
Yes, I remember it very well Ben.
Was it last year? wow.. it didn't seem THAT long ago too me... time flies! I didn't watch the match either, so I'm not sure how he played but it's definitely great to see a Ginger Italian!
Congratulations to Davide Biondini! Hardwork pays off! And although I haven't had the pleasure of watching him that many times in my life, when I have, the guy who looks like a 'foreigner' has always tried hard and did his best!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Biondini played 20'... he took his first 5' doing only useless running, then he entered the game and pretty well i'd say
Candreva also played good, but didn't convince me totally... he plays too "difficult"... but he surely showed himself up there pretty often.
Palladino instead played a bad match... even if some say he did well. He didn't. But we have many better players in that role so I'm not sad for that
btw, I just remembered why Pirlo is just so important and I'm beginning to believe that the reason Grosso is SO much better in NT may well be him.
Biondini played 20'... he took his first 5' doing only useless running, then he entered the game and pretty well i'd say
Candreva also played good, but didn't convince me totally... he plays too "difficult"... but he surely showed himself up there pretty often.
Palladino instead played a bad match... even if some say he did well. He didn't. But we have many better players in that role so I'm not sad for that
btw, I just remembered why Pirlo is just so important
and I'm beginning to believe that the reason Grosso is SO much better in NT may well be him.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
sounds kinda weird indeed. so u're saying we displayed a 3 men midfield with candreva lined up as one of the midfielders? that's really weird (i didn't even watch the highlights, so i really have no idea of what happened on the pitch).
Dafrenz, so biondini played just 20 minutes. i thought he was a starter.
as for candreva, he's still so young, it's a pretty natural tendency for a talented youngster to go for the tricky play. being italian (and playing in italy) he'll definitely learn to go for the tricky play just when the situation needs it eventually.
actually playing the "show off" role, at this stage of his carreer, during his first game with the national team, against an important team such netherland.... it's a good sign as it means he's got personality.... infact this is one of the very main issues of our national team today; despite the very high technical average level of our players, they always tend to go for the "easy play", they rarely look for 1 on 1 situations (except grosso, pirlo and rossi). so, until giovinco and balotelli will join the team, it might be good to have a gutsy player on the pitch.
reading your last statement i assume pirlo and grosso had a good match. and yeah u might have a point about how pirlo's game has an impact on grosso's performance.
anyhow it's a 2 way street, as not only a player like grosso can take big advantage of a sublime passer as pirlo.... but also pirlo becomes much more effective when he has a very mobile target, who always tries to get rid of his marking, like grosso.... while on the other side, the fullbacks poor contribution to the game made pirlo's game a lot less effecxtive in milan in the last few years (hopefully abate and antonini will sort this situation out).
sounds kinda weird indeed. so u're saying we displayed a 3 men midfield with candreva lined up as one of the midfielders? that's really weird (i didn't even watch the highlights, so i really have no idea of what happened on the pitch).
Dafrenz, so biondini played just 20 minutes. i thought he was a starter.
as for candreva, he's still so young, it's a pretty natural tendency for a talented youngster to go for the tricky play. being italian (and playing in italy) he'll definitely learn to go for the tricky play just when the situation needs it eventually.
actually playing the "show off" role, at this stage of his carreer, during his first game with the national team, against an important team such netherland.... it's a good sign as it means he's got personality.... infact this is one of the very main issues of our national team today; despite the very high technical average level of our players, they always tend to go for the "easy play", they rarely look for 1 on 1 situations (except grosso, pirlo and rossi). so, until giovinco and balotelli will join the team, it might be good to have a gutsy player on the pitch.
reading your last statement i assume pirlo and grosso had a good match. and yeah u might have a point about how pirlo's game has an impact on grosso's performance.
anyhow it's a 2 way street, as not only a player like grosso can take big advantage of a sublime passer as pirlo.... but also pirlo becomes much more effective when he has a very mobile target, who always tries to get rid of his marking, like grosso.... while on the other side, the fullbacks poor contribution to the game made pirlo's game a lot less effecxtive in milan in the last few years (hopefully abate and antonini will sort this situation out).
yeah, he looks like a viking, rather than an italianPLF said:
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Jumbo_
-
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Don't forget the other one Alessandro Carlo Gazzi!
Don't forget the other one Alessandro Carlo Gazzi!
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
jeez, u even got is middle name right! i just knew him as "alessandro gazzi"
an "A+" for Jumbo!
edit:
yesterday i was talking with a friend about this henry-incident, and he actually made an interesting point. He told me "can u imagine what would have been the world's reaction if an italian player would have done that?"
i mean henry did it, a player who is\was considered classy and nice and who is loved by most of the football fans around the globe.... and yet he's generated such a chaos and such a crazy and angry reaction (with all those genius who pretend to have the right solution for all the issues in football and so on....)..
but what if gila or iaquinta would have done the same thing.... nevermind the video replays, the retrospective bans, and all those bullshits... other countries all over the world would have asked our embassadors to leave their soil for good!
Don't forget the other one Alessandro Carlo Gazzi!
jeez, u even got is middle name right! i just knew him as "alessandro gazzi"
an "A+" for Jumbo!
edit:
yesterday i was talking with a friend about this henry-incident, and he actually made an interesting point. He told me "can u imagine what would have been the world's reaction if an italian player would have done that?"
i mean henry did it, a player who is\was considered classy and nice and who is loved by most of the football fans around the globe.... and yet he's generated such a chaos and such a crazy and angry reaction (with all those genius who pretend to have the right solution for all the issues in football and so on....)..
but what if gila or iaquinta would have done the same thing.... nevermind the video replays, the retrospective bans, and all those bullshits... other countries all over the world would have asked our embassadors to leave their soil for good!
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Zeem
Wonder Boy
- 15 July 2006
- Team
- AC Milan
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
It's Henry against the world. The guy is very nice and I have seen a lot of interviews for him and he is such a classy player and human being. Don't know what happened, he just got caught up in the moment. After all he is playing for his country which is a totally diffrent sensation.
Trappatoni will not shut up. Can't blame. He just gets screwed out of world cup's.
It's Henry against the world.
The guy is very nice and I have seen a lot of interviews for him and he is such a classy player and human being. Don't know what happened, he just got caught up in the moment. After all he is playing for his country which is a totally diffrent sensation.Trappatoni will not shut up.
Can't blame. He just gets screwed out of world cup's.
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Borriello proving to be our most useful center forward. His presence is just too important in supplying our other players.
Borriello proving to be our most useful center forward. His presence is just too important in supplying our other players.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
not only your most important foward... along with nesta he's your most important player right now.
this really weird tactical formula leonardo is displaying lately strongly depends on having a benchmark upfront and a God leading the back 4.... everytime nesta isn't playing (like today) the rossoneri look so shaky at the back.
btw how nice is this cagliari!! their football is so beautiful to watch... i wish my palermo would play that good (side note: after the home draw vs catania this week, zenga is in serious troubles.... and with ballardini risking his job at lazio aswell.... we might see the bald genius back in sicily soon enough
).
anyhow after a great campaign last season, allegri is proving himself as a very very good coach (2nd sidenote; anyone who watched today's game vs milan will easily understand why marchetti jumped ahead of amelia as italy's backup gk).
anyhow milan fans, how do u guys feel about your team lately? this new tactic leonardo is testing is definitely unique. no one (or at least no one i saw) in europe plays that kind of football.... it's extremely old fashioned, yet fresh (as it's different from the football we saw in europe in the last 10 years).... it's pretty horrible, from a tactical point of view... yet the result on the pitch (in terms on excitement) is definitely enjoyable.... and it also allowed milan to put on a pretty nice streak......
so stef, zeem, hey there, everybody, wich are your thoughts on it? coz i just can't make up my mind on it.
congrats ernestito. big win today
not only your most important foward... along with nesta he's your most important player right now.
this really weird tactical formula leonardo is displaying lately strongly depends on having a benchmark upfront and a God leading the back 4.... everytime nesta isn't playing (like today) the rossoneri look so shaky at the back.
btw how nice is this cagliari!! their football is so beautiful to watch... i wish my palermo would play that good (side note: after the home draw vs catania this week, zenga is in serious troubles.... and with ballardini risking his job at lazio aswell.... we might see the bald genius back in sicily soon enough
).anyhow after a great campaign last season, allegri is proving himself as a very very good coach (2nd sidenote; anyone who watched today's game vs milan will easily understand why marchetti jumped ahead of amelia as italy's backup gk).
anyhow milan fans, how do u guys feel about your team lately? this new tactic leonardo is testing is definitely unique. no one (or at least no one i saw) in europe plays that kind of football.... it's extremely old fashioned, yet fresh (as it's different from the football we saw in europe in the last 10 years).... it's pretty horrible, from a tactical point of view... yet the result on the pitch (in terms on excitement) is definitely enjoyable.... and it also allowed milan to put on a pretty nice streak......
so stef, zeem, hey there, everybody, wich are your thoughts on it? coz i just can't make up my mind on it.
congrats ernestito. big win today