Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season
- Thread starter Professor Nutmeg
- Start date
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
yeah i agree with u Sina.... it would be crazy to leave milito out, but we can expect just about everything from maradona. and i also agree he's probably argentina's biggest weaknesses, but that's just a mere assumption, as i haven't watched argentina a lot lately (and that's also the reason why i can't answer to your question, neoexodus).
yeah i agree with u Sina.... it would be crazy to leave milito out, but we can expect just about everything from maradona. and i also agree he's probably argentina's biggest weaknesses, but that's just a mere assumption, as i haven't watched argentina a lot lately (and that's also the reason why i can't answer to your question, neoexodus).
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I have a bad feeling about Maradonna, Argentina and Messi.
The fact that people are claiming that Messi already is the best player of all times could be a serious handicap for Argentina. There could well be some kind of "jealousy" involved...Maradonna feeling threatened as best player ever (which he never was, that's Pele) by Messi and doing some guerilla thing.
Winning a world cup would give Messi an even higher status.
I think it's pretty much possible that Maradonna will have a somewhat schizophrenic attitude towards Argentina and the WC.
I don't really trust Maradonna as a person.
I have a bad feeling about Maradonna, Argentina and Messi.
The fact that people are claiming that Messi already is the best player of all times could be a serious handicap for Argentina. There could well be some kind of "jealousy" involved...Maradonna feeling threatened as best player ever (which he never was, that's Pele) by Messi and doing some guerilla thing.
Winning a world cup would give Messi an even higher status.
I think it's pretty much possible that Maradonna will have a somewhat schizophrenic attitude towards Argentina and the WC.
I don't really trust Maradonna as a person.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
ok, the following was supposed to be a reply to a pm abou sent me. but since it wasn't really a "private content" conversation and since the topic might actually interest some of u guys i asked abou if i could reply in here (instead of sending him a pm).
hope u don't mind Auwais
the topic of the conversation was the evolution of the number 10s in football. that was his question.
but first things first. what does the number 10 really refers to? most of the people tend to link the number 10 to the trequartista.... it's the simplest way to define a number 10 and i have to admit i do it too sometimes. but truly, the number ten doesn't refer to a role, but to a conception of football. the number 10 is the number of the fantasista, the player who gives fantasia to the game, the creative player, the genious, the one who lives the game on a different tempo than his teammates, the one who can foresee the future development of the play and anticipate..... and also the one with the highest technique.
the fantasista of the team is most of the times the trequartista. but it doesn't always have to be the trequartista. infact, in the very beginning it wasn't.
the primeval number 10 (back in the '40s\50s) was the regista. the central midfielder who had the highest quality in the team, the one who had to lead the team with his visionary passing game.
then something happened. in the '60s, while the rest of europe was experimenting with the "new" 4-4-2 in all his shapes and sizes, italy took a different path. the catenaccio system required a very strong and muscular midfield that could apply some serious pressing. the midfield those days was formed by a mediano (a holding midfielder) and a regista. now a regista isn't exactly the kind of player u would ask to press (afterall the genious is lazy by definition). so many italian coaches decided to go for a 2 mediani midfield (that could give all the phisycal strenght and pressing they needed), moving the number 10 upwards.
and that's how the fantasista of the team (the nr. 10) became a trequartista (namely a player whose spot is on the "trequarti".... the 3/4 of the pitch).
u remember this pic don't u? it's the one i used to explain to u the basics of catenaccio. this time i also added the forwards to make u understand how the evolution of the nr. 10 (from regista to trequartista) worked.
that's the most basic form of catenaccio with a regista and a mediano at midfield. mind u that's not the only catenaccio... it's just the simplest. catenaccio is like 4-4-2.... it's not a formation, it's a system, hence it's opened to many different interpretations.
now as i said, in order to give more strenght to the midfield, some coaches put another mediano in the regista's place (so u have 2 medianos covering at midfield). but u can't just bench such a quality player as the number 10, the fantasista, the one who actually builds the plays. so those coaches decided to line up just 1 forward in order to create space for the number 10. that really didn't make the formation more defensive (although that's what the rest of the world thought those days).... it was just about subbing a pure forward with a more talented player (the number 10) and putting this player slightly behind the cf.
a new role was born: the trequartista.
in the invention of the trequartista there's all the genious of the italian tactic. follow me. the most used formation in europe those days was Chapman's WM.
looking at the pic u can clearely understand why this formation was called "WM".
anyway the WM formation had 3 defenders, who used to man mark (zone coverage is yet to come)
now, if u try to match that 2nd catenaccio image (the one with the trequartista) with the WM formation image, u'll discover something crazy. the trequartista has no one marking him.... he's completely free. just think about this. the 2 side fullbacks are on man marking over the italian "inside forwards" (those 2 midfielders on the sidelines), while the central fullback is on man marking over the italian cf.
20 meters ahead of them there are the halfbacks (wich are 2 holding midfielders)... but they can't take care of the trequartista either, coz they have to battle with their italian counterpart (2 italians medianos).
so the trequartista is completely alone. and mind u, u can't use today's logic to analyse that football. today a defender would notice the trequartista is heading to the box unmarked, so he would leave his assigned man to mark to go on coverage and stop the trequartista...... but people didn't even know what the word coverage mean those days (the only ones who were already discovering the concept of coverage were the italians with their liberos). the defenders only concern was to follow their assigned opponent like a shadow. and that was all they had to do. they couldn't switch the man to mark, they couldn't leave him... not even if their man was not involved in the current play and there was another player (the trequartista) heading to the box with the ball.
as u can imagine, by inventing this new role, italy (once again) changed football as it was conceived. it was not anymore just a matter of bombing ahead the ball to allow the wingers or the inside forwards (btw the inside forwards were the closest thing to an italian mezz'ala) to cross the ball to the 2 cf.
football became more "complete". having such a telented player playing right behind the cf gave the italian teams some new offensive options. they didn't have to attack necessarily from the sidelines... they could create something from the center aswell (funnily people all around the world didn't realise this. they tought the italian game was one dimensional and defensive, while the catenaccio with the trequartista was actually more offensive than the WM formation itself in some aspects.... but that's another story.... a story about ignorance and prejudices i won't talk about now).
by putting the number 10 (the fantasista) on the trequarti (3/4 of the pitch) the italian coaches lined up their most talented and dangerous player in a "no man's land". the trequartista was too far from the box to become a defenders's problem.... but was also too far from the midfield to become a halfbacks's problem.
but football's evolution changed this situation. 2 were the factors that determined the end of the trequartistas era. the invention of zone coverage and the athleticism of the players.
with the zone coverage invention, the defenders weren't forced to follow their assigned men to mark anymore. they still had to man mark, but they didn't have to mark a specific player: just everyone who enters into their assigned zone. the invention of the zone coverage gave much flexibility to the art of defending. the defenders now can double the marking or slide the marking, according to the evolution of the plays. so now trequartistas aren't free from marking anymore. as soon as they get the ball, they can have 1 or even 2 men marking them. and that obviously has an effect on their impact on the game.
and then there's a second factor. the atleticism of the players itself. try to compare a picture of a player from the 60s to a modern footballer...... old days players didn't even look like athletes, coz the athletic preparation of a player wasn't that important those days. today fitness is a science and the athletic preparation is as important as the technique education and the tactical aspect. players are stronger, faster, they have more stamina. as a consequence the pace of the game grew drastically. and obviously the higher is the pace of the game, the smaller becomes the pitch.
that means that the "no man's land" the trequartista used to live his game in, became smaller and smaller. his vital spaces, his operation zone became smaller and smaller..... till it disappeared.
modern football teams act as a "spring". the distance between the sectors (midfield and defence) can get shorter or longer, according to the plays. u can have a winger tracking back till his own box to provide some coverage.
long story short, there isn't any separation between the sectors. and that means there's no more space, no more room for a trequartista in the modern game.
so it happened exactly the same thing that already happened in the '60s. the number 10, the fantasista had to reinvent themselves and find a new spot.
that means that the number 10s, the fantasista didn't really disappear. they just moved somewhere else. there are plenty of number 10s today. some of them moved backwards and became mezz'ali (iniesta, veron, riquelme, hamsik, benayoun, joe cole). some others moved upwards and became supporting strikers (del piero, mancini, baggio, miccoli, mutu, jovetic, pandev). some others moved to the side and became wingers (messi, robben, ribery). some others became very unconventional CF (totti, rooney, ibra).
they're not in the 3/4 of the pitch anymore... but they didn't disappear from the game.
finally there's another way to approach this topic (the evolution of the number 10). an anthropological way.
u see the number 10, in his old trequartista conception, was a nightmare to any coach. coaches tend to rationalize the game. it's important for them to be able to control every single aspect of the game from the bench. therefore every player must have some very specific assignements and duties. each player has to give a very specific contribution. the game must be rational.
but the number ten represents the genious. and the genious is never rational. it's something that flees, escapes from any form of logic, any form of control. it refuses the control. afterall, the fantasista plays with his fantasia (in english: imagination, creativity). u can't control creativity. it's an irrational process.
and that's why the fantasistas, the number 10s tend to refuse any sort of control, they don't tolerate orders from the coach. they just want to be lined up so they can "do their magic". fantasistas are "anarchists" by nature.
this deprives the coaches of part of their power, their influence, their control..... and they don't like it. that's why most of the fantasisti always had problems with their coaches (baggio, mancini, rivera). coaches don't like the idea of a player doing just want he wants, a player who follows his instinct rather than the coach directives.
so moving the fantasisti from the trequartistas area to others (well defined) roles was a blessing in disguise for the coaches, coz it allowed the coaches to demand something more from the fantasista.
today they can say "hey, u're a winger, hence i expect u to track back in coverage during non possession phases of the game" or "hey, u're a mezz'ala now, so i expect u to put some pressing on the opponent's ball carrier too! u can't just wander around the pitch, waiting for your creativity to give u the right inspiration!"
by moving the fantasistas to others positions, the coaches turned the fantasistas into "team players".... wich was something "against their nature" back in the days when they used to play as trequartisti.
hope that satisfied your curiosity abou
i don't think there's a single person that trusts maradona, mategerd said:
ok, the following was supposed to be a reply to a pm abou sent me. but since it wasn't really a "private content" conversation and since the topic might actually interest some of u guys i asked abou if i could reply in here (instead of sending him a pm).
hope u don't mind Auwais
the topic of the conversation was the evolution of the number 10s in football. that was his question.
well mate, the fact that u mentioned the growth of the pace, the evolution of tactics and the need of number 10s to find themselves a new spot, already tells me u know what we're talking about. so i'm not gonna waste your and mine time telling u things u already know.... i'll go a bit deeper and try to tell u something about the place of number 10s in football history. that will make u understand why they became such an important asset in some times, and why they became almost a problem to fix today.abou said:
but first things first. what does the number 10 really refers to? most of the people tend to link the number 10 to the trequartista.... it's the simplest way to define a number 10 and i have to admit i do it too sometimes. but truly, the number ten doesn't refer to a role, but to a conception of football. the number 10 is the number of the fantasista, the player who gives fantasia to the game, the creative player, the genious, the one who lives the game on a different tempo than his teammates, the one who can foresee the future development of the play and anticipate..... and also the one with the highest technique.
the fantasista of the team is most of the times the trequartista. but it doesn't always have to be the trequartista. infact, in the very beginning it wasn't.
the primeval number 10 (back in the '40s\50s) was the regista. the central midfielder who had the highest quality in the team, the one who had to lead the team with his visionary passing game.
then something happened. in the '60s, while the rest of europe was experimenting with the "new" 4-4-2 in all his shapes and sizes, italy took a different path. the catenaccio system required a very strong and muscular midfield that could apply some serious pressing. the midfield those days was formed by a mediano (a holding midfielder) and a regista. now a regista isn't exactly the kind of player u would ask to press (afterall the genious is lazy by definition). so many italian coaches decided to go for a 2 mediani midfield (that could give all the phisycal strenght and pressing they needed), moving the number 10 upwards.
and that's how the fantasista of the team (the nr. 10) became a trequartista (namely a player whose spot is on the "trequarti".... the 3/4 of the pitch).
u remember this pic don't u? it's the one i used to explain to u the basics of catenaccio. this time i also added the forwards to make u understand how the evolution of the nr. 10 (from regista to trequartista) worked.
that's the most basic form of catenaccio with a regista and a mediano at midfield. mind u that's not the only catenaccio... it's just the simplest. catenaccio is like 4-4-2.... it's not a formation, it's a system, hence it's opened to many different interpretations.
now as i said, in order to give more strenght to the midfield, some coaches put another mediano in the regista's place (so u have 2 medianos covering at midfield). but u can't just bench such a quality player as the number 10, the fantasista, the one who actually builds the plays. so those coaches decided to line up just 1 forward in order to create space for the number 10. that really didn't make the formation more defensive (although that's what the rest of the world thought those days).... it was just about subbing a pure forward with a more talented player (the number 10) and putting this player slightly behind the cf.
a new role was born: the trequartista.
in the invention of the trequartista there's all the genious of the italian tactic. follow me. the most used formation in europe those days was Chapman's WM.
looking at the pic u can clearely understand why this formation was called "WM".
anyway the WM formation had 3 defenders, who used to man mark (zone coverage is yet to come)
now, if u try to match that 2nd catenaccio image (the one with the trequartista) with the WM formation image, u'll discover something crazy. the trequartista has no one marking him.... he's completely free. just think about this. the 2 side fullbacks are on man marking over the italian "inside forwards" (those 2 midfielders on the sidelines), while the central fullback is on man marking over the italian cf.
20 meters ahead of them there are the halfbacks (wich are 2 holding midfielders)... but they can't take care of the trequartista either, coz they have to battle with their italian counterpart (2 italians medianos).
so the trequartista is completely alone. and mind u, u can't use today's logic to analyse that football. today a defender would notice the trequartista is heading to the box unmarked, so he would leave his assigned man to mark to go on coverage and stop the trequartista...... but people didn't even know what the word coverage mean those days (the only ones who were already discovering the concept of coverage were the italians with their liberos). the defenders only concern was to follow their assigned opponent like a shadow. and that was all they had to do. they couldn't switch the man to mark, they couldn't leave him... not even if their man was not involved in the current play and there was another player (the trequartista) heading to the box with the ball.
as u can imagine, by inventing this new role, italy (once again) changed football as it was conceived. it was not anymore just a matter of bombing ahead the ball to allow the wingers or the inside forwards (btw the inside forwards were the closest thing to an italian mezz'ala) to cross the ball to the 2 cf.
football became more "complete". having such a telented player playing right behind the cf gave the italian teams some new offensive options. they didn't have to attack necessarily from the sidelines... they could create something from the center aswell (funnily people all around the world didn't realise this. they tought the italian game was one dimensional and defensive, while the catenaccio with the trequartista was actually more offensive than the WM formation itself in some aspects.... but that's another story.... a story about ignorance and prejudices i won't talk about now).
by putting the number 10 (the fantasista) on the trequarti (3/4 of the pitch) the italian coaches lined up their most talented and dangerous player in a "no man's land". the trequartista was too far from the box to become a defenders's problem.... but was also too far from the midfield to become a halfbacks's problem.
but football's evolution changed this situation. 2 were the factors that determined the end of the trequartistas era. the invention of zone coverage and the athleticism of the players.
with the zone coverage invention, the defenders weren't forced to follow their assigned men to mark anymore. they still had to man mark, but they didn't have to mark a specific player: just everyone who enters into their assigned zone. the invention of the zone coverage gave much flexibility to the art of defending. the defenders now can double the marking or slide the marking, according to the evolution of the plays. so now trequartistas aren't free from marking anymore. as soon as they get the ball, they can have 1 or even 2 men marking them. and that obviously has an effect on their impact on the game.
and then there's a second factor. the atleticism of the players itself. try to compare a picture of a player from the 60s to a modern footballer...... old days players didn't even look like athletes, coz the athletic preparation of a player wasn't that important those days. today fitness is a science and the athletic preparation is as important as the technique education and the tactical aspect. players are stronger, faster, they have more stamina. as a consequence the pace of the game grew drastically. and obviously the higher is the pace of the game, the smaller becomes the pitch.
that means that the "no man's land" the trequartista used to live his game in, became smaller and smaller. his vital spaces, his operation zone became smaller and smaller..... till it disappeared.
modern football teams act as a "spring". the distance between the sectors (midfield and defence) can get shorter or longer, according to the plays. u can have a winger tracking back till his own box to provide some coverage.
long story short, there isn't any separation between the sectors. and that means there's no more space, no more room for a trequartista in the modern game.
so it happened exactly the same thing that already happened in the '60s. the number 10, the fantasista had to reinvent themselves and find a new spot.
that means that the number 10s, the fantasista didn't really disappear. they just moved somewhere else. there are plenty of number 10s today. some of them moved backwards and became mezz'ali (iniesta, veron, riquelme, hamsik, benayoun, joe cole). some others moved upwards and became supporting strikers (del piero, mancini, baggio, miccoli, mutu, jovetic, pandev). some others moved to the side and became wingers (messi, robben, ribery). some others became very unconventional CF (totti, rooney, ibra).
they're not in the 3/4 of the pitch anymore... but they didn't disappear from the game.
finally there's another way to approach this topic (the evolution of the number 10). an anthropological way.
u see the number 10, in his old trequartista conception, was a nightmare to any coach. coaches tend to rationalize the game. it's important for them to be able to control every single aspect of the game from the bench. therefore every player must have some very specific assignements and duties. each player has to give a very specific contribution. the game must be rational.
but the number ten represents the genious. and the genious is never rational. it's something that flees, escapes from any form of logic, any form of control. it refuses the control. afterall, the fantasista plays with his fantasia (in english: imagination, creativity). u can't control creativity. it's an irrational process.
and that's why the fantasistas, the number 10s tend to refuse any sort of control, they don't tolerate orders from the coach. they just want to be lined up so they can "do their magic". fantasistas are "anarchists" by nature.
this deprives the coaches of part of their power, their influence, their control..... and they don't like it. that's why most of the fantasisti always had problems with their coaches (baggio, mancini, rivera). coaches don't like the idea of a player doing just want he wants, a player who follows his instinct rather than the coach directives.
so moving the fantasisti from the trequartistas area to others (well defined) roles was a blessing in disguise for the coaches, coz it allowed the coaches to demand something more from the fantasista.
today they can say "hey, u're a winger, hence i expect u to track back in coverage during non possession phases of the game" or "hey, u're a mezz'ala now, so i expect u to put some pressing on the opponent's ball carrier too! u can't just wander around the pitch, waiting for your creativity to give u the right inspiration!"
by moving the fantasistas to others positions, the coaches turned the fantasistas into "team players".... wich was something "against their nature" back in the days when they used to play as trequartisti.
hope that satisfied your curiosity abou
Last edited:
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
i'm not sure about that, neo. personally i find much more exhausting and boring to go through a multitude of short posts with stupid comments about reeferee's wrong calls or penalties not given, rather than reading a longest post with some actual interesting content.
but then again u're right. netiquette requires forum's posts to be short, and, on this concern, i'm definitely one of the most unpolite members in here... and i apologise about that.
but u see, in that last post there are about 50 years of football. u just can't sum them up in a few lines can u? the only choice would be not to talk about some topics (those who require deeper argumentation). but that would probably make the quality of the conversation a lot lower and the posts more boring.
anyway it's not up to me to decide theese things. if u guys prefere it short and boring, then short and boring it'll be!
i'm not sure about that, neo. personally i find much more exhausting and boring to go through a multitude of short posts with stupid comments about reeferee's wrong calls or penalties not given, rather than reading a longest post with some actual interesting content.
but then again u're right. netiquette requires forum's posts to be short, and, on this concern, i'm definitely one of the most unpolite members in here... and i apologise about that.
but u see, in that last post there are about 50 years of football. u just can't sum them up in a few lines can u? the only choice would be not to talk about some topics (those who require deeper argumentation). but that would probably make the quality of the conversation a lot lower and the posts more boring.
anyway it's not up to me to decide theese things. if u guys prefere it short and boring, then short and boring it'll be!
Jumbo_
-
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Disagree totally, no need to cut your posts down at all Ben. Very insightful as always.
Disagree totally, no need to cut your posts down at all Ben. Very insightful as always.
Aboutreika18
Too Black, Too Strong
- 5 September 2006
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
That's fantastic, Ben.
I'm going to get a cup of tea, some biscuits and sit down and digest that post.
That's fantastic, Ben.
I'm going to get a cup of tea, some biscuits and sit down and digest that post.
Dominic
Serie A
- 19 August 2003
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
And sometimes fantasistas dissapear because the coach cant define a role for him (Giovinco).
Fantastic post by the way, Ben.
And sometimes fantasistas dissapear because the coach cant define a role for him (Giovinco).
Fantastic post by the way, Ben.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
No Lo Zio, there is no problem in making these kind of posts. I just think that a full page with these kind of posts is exhausting to read. 1 or 2 is acceptable, but like 4/5 posts that long is just tiring to read.
I have nothing on your long posts, i read through a couple, but making them in groups of 3/4 doesn't seem like a forum post, but a forum article.
Yet, i reaffirm that there is no problem in your posts.
i'm not sure about that, neo. personally i find much more exhausting and boring to go through a multitude of short posts with stupid comments about reeferee's wrong calls or penalties not given, rather than reading a longest post with some actual interesting content.
but then again u're right. netiquette requires forum's posts to be short, and, on this concern, i'm definitely one of the most unpolite members in here... and i apologise about that.
but u see, in that last post there are about 50 years of football. u just can't sum them up in a few lines can u? the only choice would be not to talk about some topics (those who require deeper argumentation). but that would probably make the quality of the conversation a lot lower and the posts more boring.
anyway it's not up to me to decide theese things. if u guys prefere it short and boring, then short and boring it'll be!
No Lo Zio, there is no problem in making these kind of posts. I just think that a full page with these kind of posts is exhausting to read. 1 or 2 is acceptable, but like 4/5 posts that long is just tiring to read.
I have nothing on your long posts, i read through a couple, but making them in groups of 3/4 doesn't seem like a forum post, but a forum article.
Yet, i reaffirm that there is no problem in your posts.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
u're absolutely right mate. besides when posts get too long, people might not have the time or the will to read them. and if no one reads them, there can't be any conversation on the topics (wich is the most important thing).
i'll try to "contain myself" and at least not to write consecutive longests posts.
if only he would have played on a constant basis (like he played in empoli), by now he would be considered a starter in most of the top teams in the world. if he would have realised that and left juve to go on loan somewhere else, today no juve coach could afford to keep him on the bench.
what a disgraceful waste of talent.
u're absolutely right mate. besides when posts get too long, people might not have the time or the will to read them. and if no one reads them, there can't be any conversation on the topics (wich is the most important thing).
i'll try to "contain myself" and at least not to write consecutive longests posts.
yep. but in giovinco's case, sebastian is the main responsible for his misfortunes. he should have known better. he should have asked to be sent on loan somewhere he would have been lined up as a starter.Dominic said:
if only he would have played on a constant basis (like he played in empoli), by now he would be considered a starter in most of the top teams in the world. if he would have realised that and left juve to go on loan somewhere else, today no juve coach could afford to keep him on the bench.
what a disgraceful waste of talent.
Last edited:
bebo
Looking for a Manager
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I might write a book about football using Ben`s memoirs... in Spanish though 
. Sorry to bring up past comments , but I think Roman was tired of Mourinho tactics too , the attacking of refs(forcing 1 to quit),coaches calling Voyeur Wenger in public is shockingly funny ,but disrespectful! and Roman wants Chelsea to have a class imagine and Mourinho already influencing Drogba w/ it`s a Fxxxing DISGRACE(comments) on national tv is proof even though he left that year.
I don`t think England loves him it`s more stories for the Media innit. SAF one of the most feared and respected Coaches doesn`t even talk to a network just because of the turning of words and such. Mourinho thrives on tv cameras...I mean what Coach takes his squad to Hollywood for training
and stays at the Brown Derby Hotel on sunset Blvd. FFS! Seeing Cech and Snoop at a party is ridiculous ...that`s endangering players inhaling Drugs
Mourinho is controversial and controversial sells and is in demand he will always find work unless he burns all his bridges and if Inter wins CL and he`ll be legend!
I might write a book about football using Ben`s memoirs...
in Spanish though . Sorry to bring up past comments , but I think Roman was tired of Mourinho tactics too , the attacking of refs(forcing 1 to quit),coaches calling Voyeur Wenger in public is shockingly funny ,but disrespectful! and Roman wants Chelsea to have a class imagine and Mourinho already influencing Drogba w/ it`s a Fxxxing DISGRACE(comments) on national tv is proof even though he left that year.I don`t think England loves him it`s more stories for the Media innit. SAF one of the most feared and respected Coaches doesn`t even talk to a network just because of the turning of words and such. Mourinho thrives on tv cameras...I mean what Coach takes his squad to Hollywood for training
and stays at the Brown Derby Hotel on sunset Blvd. FFS! Seeing Cech and Snoop at a party is ridiculous ...that`s endangering players inhaling Drugs Mourinho is controversial and controversial sells and is in demand he will always find work unless he burns all his bridges and if Inter wins CL and he`ll be legend!
Last edited:
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
u know i'm actually happy u brought back the mourinho topic bebo, coz it gives me the chance to say something i realised in the last 2 days.
i just finished to read a book about helenio herrera that simply blew me out and set my mind straight about a lot of things.
i always thought herrera was one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game.... and in some ways, that's true. but not in the way i always thought. let me make myself more clear.
helenio herrera didn't really change a lot in football. i know that sounds crazy and even i would have never believed such a statement till a few days ago.
and yet that's the truth. he just borrowed other coaches ideas and interpretated them with his personal approach. that sure is something, but is it enough to compare him to the all time greatests? i don't know honestly.
but what i do know now is that helenio herrera was a master in bluffing. he was charismatic and controversial. he was insecure, but he managed to hide this flaw behind an overly confident mask. he desperately needed media's attention and he needed people's admiration to feed his ego. and to do that he used to argue with everyone (journalists, players, other coaches).
he didn't really create a new system. he just used other people's systems and mixed them up to come up with something that could be defined (at the same time) "new and original" but also "not new at all and copied from others".
does that remind u of anybody?
however, like it or not, the image he created for himself and all the trophies he won made him a legend.
there's an amazing italian football journalist i have a huge respect for, mario sconcerti. he clearely can't stand mourinho, yet some months ago he said something that made me think "mourinho is actually a very very good coach, but he's just too different from us, so we will never fully understand him"
if anyone else would have said that, i wouldn't have given it such importance, but since this statement was coming from a great journalist who doesn't even like mourinho, i thought it was something interesting.
now i'm starting to realise what sconcerti meant to say. by the usual coaching standards, mourinho is an awful coach, as he's very bad in most of the aspects that define a great coach. but he's absolutely top class in some others aspects that we don't fully understand and appreciate.
is that enough to make him a top class coach? imo not. a top class coach must have the whole package and there's no way around this.
but it's sure enough to respect him and to realise that it would be wrong to judge mourinho by using the same standards and criteria we use to describe top class coaches like ferguson, lippi, capello, ancelotti, hiddink, prandelli, wenger or spalletti.
mourinho has his own standards, wich are probably very similar to herrera's standards. those standards don't make them better or on par with the greatest coaches. but they probably put them out of scale, in a category of their own.
maybe reading that book about herrera finally allowed me to really figure mourinho out.
i really hope this post was not too long
u know i'm actually happy u brought back the mourinho topic bebo, coz it gives me the chance to say something i realised in the last 2 days.
i just finished to read a book about helenio herrera that simply blew me out and set my mind straight about a lot of things.
i always thought herrera was one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game.... and in some ways, that's true. but not in the way i always thought. let me make myself more clear.
helenio herrera didn't really change a lot in football. i know that sounds crazy and even i would have never believed such a statement till a few days ago.
and yet that's the truth. he just borrowed other coaches ideas and interpretated them with his personal approach. that sure is something, but is it enough to compare him to the all time greatests? i don't know honestly.
but what i do know now is that helenio herrera was a master in bluffing. he was charismatic and controversial. he was insecure, but he managed to hide this flaw behind an overly confident mask. he desperately needed media's attention and he needed people's admiration to feed his ego. and to do that he used to argue with everyone (journalists, players, other coaches).
he didn't really create a new system. he just used other people's systems and mixed them up to come up with something that could be defined (at the same time) "new and original" but also "not new at all and copied from others".
does that remind u of anybody?
however, like it or not, the image he created for himself and all the trophies he won made him a legend.
there's an amazing italian football journalist i have a huge respect for, mario sconcerti. he clearely can't stand mourinho, yet some months ago he said something that made me think "mourinho is actually a very very good coach, but he's just too different from us, so we will never fully understand him"
if anyone else would have said that, i wouldn't have given it such importance, but since this statement was coming from a great journalist who doesn't even like mourinho, i thought it was something interesting.
now i'm starting to realise what sconcerti meant to say. by the usual coaching standards, mourinho is an awful coach, as he's very bad in most of the aspects that define a great coach. but he's absolutely top class in some others aspects that we don't fully understand and appreciate.
is that enough to make him a top class coach? imo not. a top class coach must have the whole package and there's no way around this.
but it's sure enough to respect him and to realise that it would be wrong to judge mourinho by using the same standards and criteria we use to describe top class coaches like ferguson, lippi, capello, ancelotti, hiddink, prandelli, wenger or spalletti.
mourinho has his own standards, wich are probably very similar to herrera's standards. those standards don't make them better or on par with the greatest coaches. but they probably put them out of scale, in a category of their own.
maybe reading that book about herrera finally allowed me to really figure mourinho out.
i really hope this post was not too long
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gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Could you try to give an example Ben?
And i know you probably won't believe me, but i've been thinking that yes Murinho has something of Herrera.
I was a litle boy when Fahetti, Mazzola, Corso, Burgnic, Domenghini e.a. played for Herrera's Inter, but i do remember that they were a pretty strong team in the second half of the sixties. And they were even better in the first half of that decade (but that's an era i do not remember).
Both Herrera and Mourinho play rather defensive and both attach much important to wide players...Herrera was one of the first to use what we now calle wing backs (Facchetti in particular). Look at Mourinho's teams and he has always had prety offensive lateral backs: Paolo Ferreira (Porto), Ashley Cole (Chelsea) and Maicon...
Could you try to give an example Ben?
And i know you probably won't believe me, but i've been thinking that yes Murinho has something of Herrera.
I was a litle boy when Fahetti, Mazzola, Corso, Burgnic, Domenghini e.a. played for Herrera's Inter, but i do remember that they were a pretty strong team in the second half of the sixties. And they were even better in the first half of that decade (but that's an era i do not remember).
Both Herrera and Mourinho play rather defensive and both attach much important to wide players...Herrera was one of the first to use what we now calle wing backs (Facchetti in particular). Look at Mourinho's teams and he has always had prety offensive lateral backs: Paolo Ferreira (Porto), Ashley Cole (Chelsea) and Maicon...
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
This is not a case of the referee making an error in officiating, because mistakes can happen when you have 1 second to make a decision, but this the FIGC who don't operate under the same pressure and have plenty of time to review an incident. This is bullshit. If we had quality in depth, I wouldn't give a fuck, but you saw what happened when Muntari came on versus Catania 
But I do agree that Mou is making a mountain out a molehill and needs to pipe down. However, I remember well that Roberto Mancini was just as much a whinger as Mou, only less loud
I think you're over simplifying things a bit. I wouldn't say he's an 'attention whore', just overly-expressive and rather impulsive. Were he at any other club he would simply be ignored but as the manager of the current no.1 team in Italy, he's under a lot of pressure to deliver. I do think he is going too far with these conspiracy theories, but when Cambiasso gets banned 3 games for nothing and Totti gets off scot-free for telling Nicola Rizzoli (the same ref who handed Sneijder the straight red for applauding him) to fuck-off, one must wonder... And HELLOOOO, Cambiasso's 3 game suspension
This is not a case of the referee making an error in officiating, because mistakes can happen when you have 1 second to make a decision, but this the FIGC who don't operate under the same pressure and have plenty of time to review an incident. This is bullshit. If we had quality in depth, I wouldn't give a fuck, but you saw what happened when Muntari came on versus Catania But I do agree that Mou is making a mountain out a molehill and needs to pipe down. However, I remember well that Roberto Mancini was just as much a whinger as Mou, only less loud
This the same Sconcerti Mou said he would not have dinner with if invited
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lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
anyhow it's funny how the mind of football fans works sometimes. they seem to have a very good memory of past events that caused a damage to their own team. but amazingly, when it comes to episodes that actually went in their favour.... it's black out.
rfu u mention that "old" 3 matches ban on cambiasso, that might well considered too harsh or just fair (i just can't express myself as i didn't even watch that match), but u conveniently forget about what happened just 7 days ago!
what about chivu's foul? there's no possible argument about that foul. it would be a straight red card for every ref in the world. yet chivu got away with it. shouldn't we talk about that? what about milito's goal last week? that was an offside... that shouldn't have been a goal... and once again, this is not questionable as it's a fact, no one can deny that offside.
and it's not like that wasn't an important goal either. hell that was the most important goal of the season. that goal allowed u to equalise, to keep roma 4 points away..... that goal, that referee call was pretty much handing u the scudetto! yeah sure, then roma scored again, but u can't blame the referee for inter not being able to equalise again..... afterall he already did everything he could to help u!
now, am i saying there's a big conspiracy against roma and that "someone" wants inter to win the scudetto? of course not. because inter also had to deal with wrong referee calls that didn't go in their favour.
what i'm trying to say is, how can u focus your mind only the events that damaged inter and completely ignore those events that helped inter?
i know, "the eyes see what the mind tells them to see"..... but please, that would be a stupid man's mind. only stupid people are entitled to act consequently. u're clever, hence u're not allowed to do that.
so please let's just change topic of conversation. i'm so tired of all this conspiration bullshits. let's talk about football instead
but that's not what mourinho did. he did exactly the opposite of what common sense would suggest. he subbed a mediano (motta) with a forward (balotelli). he didn't strenghten the midfield, he weaneked it.
now this might look the usual mourinho's mistake. the game isn't going like he wants, so he just goes stupid and starts throwing offensive players in the pitch (like a kid would do playing football manager in front of a pc)...... but that's not the case this time. this is a fantastic move indeed.
putting balotelli in, mourinho stretched cheslea's defensive line and forced the midfield to step 10 meters back, moving the possession line in chelsea's territory.
there's no doubt ancelotti is a way better coach than mou. ancelotti's got the "whole package".... plus he's a tactical genious, the only coach in the world that actually created something "new" in the last 10 years.......
... but ancelotti would have never made the decision mourinho made. and despite being lightyears behind ancelotti, in terms of tactical knowledge, that day mourinho beated him in carletto's own game.
that's just the first example that comes into my mind Gerd, but it gives an idea of what i'm referring to.
oh boy, i remember that interview. jose made such a fool of himself that day, it was so embarassing.rfu said:
anyhow it's funny how the mind of football fans works sometimes. they seem to have a very good memory of past events that caused a damage to their own team. but amazingly, when it comes to episodes that actually went in their favour.... it's black out.
rfu u mention that "old" 3 matches ban on cambiasso, that might well considered too harsh or just fair (i just can't express myself as i didn't even watch that match), but u conveniently forget about what happened just 7 days ago!
what about chivu's foul? there's no possible argument about that foul. it would be a straight red card for every ref in the world. yet chivu got away with it. shouldn't we talk about that? what about milito's goal last week? that was an offside... that shouldn't have been a goal... and once again, this is not questionable as it's a fact, no one can deny that offside.
and it's not like that wasn't an important goal either. hell that was the most important goal of the season. that goal allowed u to equalise, to keep roma 4 points away..... that goal, that referee call was pretty much handing u the scudetto! yeah sure, then roma scored again, but u can't blame the referee for inter not being able to equalise again..... afterall he already did everything he could to help u!
now, am i saying there's a big conspiracy against roma and that "someone" wants inter to win the scudetto? of course not. because inter also had to deal with wrong referee calls that didn't go in their favour.
what i'm trying to say is, how can u focus your mind only the events that damaged inter and completely ignore those events that helped inter?
i know, "the eyes see what the mind tells them to see"..... but please, that would be a stupid man's mind. only stupid people are entitled to act consequently. u're clever, hence u're not allowed to do that.
so please let's just change topic of conversation. i'm so tired of all this conspiration bullshits. let's talk about football instead
during the 1 leg against chelsea, when inter was beginning to suffer the pressure chelsea put at midfield, any other coach would have done the same thing. malouda was becoming a real threat, so anyone would have abandoned the diamond midfield and called in the game another holding midfielder to control florent.gerd said:
but that's not what mourinho did. he did exactly the opposite of what common sense would suggest. he subbed a mediano (motta) with a forward (balotelli). he didn't strenghten the midfield, he weaneked it.
now this might look the usual mourinho's mistake. the game isn't going like he wants, so he just goes stupid and starts throwing offensive players in the pitch (like a kid would do playing football manager in front of a pc)...... but that's not the case this time. this is a fantastic move indeed.
putting balotelli in, mourinho stretched cheslea's defensive line and forced the midfield to step 10 meters back, moving the possession line in chelsea's territory.
there's no doubt ancelotti is a way better coach than mou. ancelotti's got the "whole package".... plus he's a tactical genious, the only coach in the world that actually created something "new" in the last 10 years.......
... but ancelotti would have never made the decision mourinho made. and despite being lightyears behind ancelotti, in terms of tactical knowledge, that day mourinho beated him in carletto's own game.
that's just the first example that comes into my mind Gerd, but it gives an idea of what i'm referring to.
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Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
RIP Maurizio Mosca.
Was not a fan of his, but he was still a big football figure in the Italian media.
RIP Maurizio Mosca.
Was not a fan of his, but he was still a big football figure in the Italian media.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Actually what surprised me was that the Roma players were all cool about it. No one reacted. In anycase, Zanetti got a yellow card for nothing in that game, and subsequently misses tonight's game. That more than makes up for it 
Basically, the FIGC need to step it up and be consistent because there's a lot at stake.
That was one hell of a risk that paid off, fortunately enough for Mou. He won't get away with that one again though, I don't think.
Actually I brought it up not too long ago, if check my previous posts
Actually what surprised me was that the Roma players were all cool about it. No one reacted. In anycase, Zanetti got a yellow card for nothing in that game, and subsequently misses tonight's game. That more than makes up for it The FIGC can't exactly cancel goals now, can they? But they can overturn bans that are handed out unfairly. No conspiracy talk, I just don't want people on here thinking Mou is as stupid as he sounds
Basically, the FIGC need to step it up and be consistent because there's a lot at stake. That was one hell of a risk that paid off, fortunately enough for Mou. He won't get away with that one again though, I don't think.
cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Hopefully I get to see Inter v Juve on my birthday!
Hopefully I get to see Inter v Juve on my birthday!
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
yeah. i wasn't a fan of his either.... he was more of an opinionist than a journalist.... and not even such a good one (i mean for italian standards). but he was really a nice fella. riposi in pace
stef are u watching milan match?! WOW so entertaining! and how about cossu!!!!!
rfu, such a shame zanetti got that yellow card... he had an amazing streak of consecutives games... how many were they?
balotelli scored again as i write this post... first time back in the team.... and he's already back to score.... this kid is a marvel.
yeah. i wasn't a fan of his either.... he was more of an opinionist than a journalist.... and not even such a good one (i mean for italian standards). but he was really a nice fella. riposi in pace
stef are u watching milan match?! WOW so entertaining! and how about cossu!!!!!
rfu, such a shame zanetti got that yellow card... he had an amazing streak of consecutives games... how many were they?
yeah it was risky, but also very very smart. sure he was also lucky, but as they say, those who deserves their luck with their moves, eventually get it. so credit where it's due, that was a great move by mou. he's done moves like this before even in serie a afterall... and usually they paid aswell.rfu said:
balotelli scored again as i write this post... first time back in the team.... and he's already back to score.... this kid is a marvel.
nice! always wondered what's your nationality mate... where do u live?edmundo said:
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Ben did you see Huntelaar's goal? Sexy.
Ben did you see Huntelaar's goal? Sexy.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Sexier than Motta 2nd? It's funny, Motta only looks good when Sneijder is not on the pitch or is having a bad game. For the most part he looks average. He's a very useful player for us in that he's technical and can hold the ball for us in midfield helping us keep possession. This is something we've badly needed ever since Veron departed (so like 5 years
). But he isn't consistent enough to be in the starting 11.
Balotelli was great today but soon slipped back into old habits after the 2nd goal. Still there was a marked improvement in his behavior but IMO he will always be the same, i.e. if he doesn't get his way then he will act negatively, which is a shame. Good to see him celebrate with the rest of the team after the goals. Santon also put in a good display. Was good seeing Krhin given another run out, he needs more minutes though. I see plenty of potential in him, he's got good awareness, is calm in possession, solid in the tackle, technical and mobile in midfield, only he's rather 'raw' and doesn't have the required passing range just yet for this level of football.
All in all this was a great performance by Inter considering the suspensions (4 in total). And what a save by Viviano, our soon to be no.2 between the posts
Sexier than Motta 2nd? It's funny, Motta only looks good when Sneijder is not on the pitch or is having a bad game. For the most part he looks average. He's a very useful player for us in that he's technical and can hold the ball for us in midfield helping us keep possession. This is something we've badly needed ever since Veron departed (so like 5 years
). But he isn't consistent enough to be in the starting 11.Balotelli was great today but soon slipped back into old habits after the 2nd goal. Still there was a marked improvement in his behavior but IMO he will always be the same, i.e. if he doesn't get his way then he will act negatively, which is a shame. Good to see him celebrate with the rest of the team after the goals. Santon also put in a good display. Was good seeing Krhin given another run out, he needs more minutes though. I see plenty of potential in him, he's got good awareness, is calm in possession, solid in the tackle, technical and mobile in midfield, only he's rather 'raw' and doesn't have the required passing range just yet for this level of football.
All in all this was a great performance by Inter considering the suspensions (4 in total
). And what a save by Viviano, our soon to be no.2 between the posts 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Bad news for italian football world. Maybe he wasn't the prototype of journalist (how to forget his "market bombs"?) but was a nice person who made you laugh every time, plus he was the only reason to see the Sunday football show (Guida al campionato) during lunch. He was like a totem and it won't be easy to replace his figure in nowadays fu**ing TV. RIP Maurizio
He played 137 consecutive matches, since October 2006rfu, such a shame zanetti got that yellow card... he had an amazing streak of consecutives games... how many were they?
cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I live in London now Ben, well about 20km outside of it, I lived in italy for a bit when I was studying, firstly at Urbino then a place called Mondragone, a little north of Napoli, but that was almost a decade ago.
What happend with the netting on the goal tonight ? It seemed to come off, did the power of the shot of the second goal literally break the netting ?
I live in London now Ben, well about 20km outside of it, I lived in italy for a bit when I was studying, firstly at Urbino then a place called Mondragone, a little north of Napoli, but that was almost a decade ago.
What happend with the netting on the goal tonight ? It seemed to come off, did the power of the shot of the second goal literally break the netting ?
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
FREAK!
He played 137 consecutive matches, since October 2006
FREAK!
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
i don't know what happened exactly to the net.
@ Leo: 137 matches!! that's almost 3 consicutives seasons.
some very good matches yesterday. the situation is the same on top of the table as inter (stunning performance), roma and milan (very nice match against cagliari) all won.
the race for the 4th place instead is a mess once again.
as expected, palermo lost against catania. i knew we would have lost this one... but i didn't expect us to play so bad honestly...oh well that's the first bad performance ever since rossi took over, so i'm not gonna complain.
lucky us, napoli got away from the lazio match with just 1 point and juve was simply dismantled by udinese.... so juve didn't close the gap at all and napoli just got 1 point closer. sampdoria instead took advantage of our loss and got 3 points closer..... but to be honest the table looks better than i expected 2 days ago.
inter 66
roma 65
milan 63
palermo 51
samp 51
napoli 49
juveuntus 48
fiorentina 45
genoa 45
at the end of the day the teams that screwed up big time are fiorentina and genoa. they both got just 1 point. if they would have won, they would have finally joined the group with 47 points. they had a great chance and wasted it.
can't say i'm surprised by juve's loss. this udinese is just too superior. i know they're 15th, and they had some problems this season... but just look at their starting formation and u realise this team could kick the crap out of any team in europe (when in good form).... and since marino got back in charge they got back to their beautiful football.
there's an interesting note about the udinese-juve match. in 1996 a legendary udinese-juve game was played. that match too ended with a 3-0 win for udinese. zaccheroni was there too, but on the other side. he was udinese coach those days... a young creative coach, regarded by many as an innovator. that game has an historic importance because it was the first game zaccheroni displayed his famous, typical 3-4-3 formation. that formation will soon become a cornerstone in football.... Van Gaal was coaching barcelona those days.... he watched that match and was so astonished by the brilliance of that tactical display, he wanted to talk with zaccheroni to learn his system..... van gaal will become a famous for "his" 3-4-3.... much more famous (and praised) than the man who actually invented that system and tought him how to display it.
if u would ask to a fan today about van gaal, he would probably reply "he was that genious that created that pass and move 3-4-3 system"..... the same fan could hardly tell u anything about zaccheroni instead..... the irony. life can be cruel sometimes.
ah, urbino! what a wonderful little town. one of my best friends studied law at urbino university and that gave me a chance to discover the beauty of that place
i don't know what happened exactly to the net.
@ Leo: 137 matches!! that's almost 3 consicutives seasons.
some very good matches yesterday. the situation is the same on top of the table as inter (stunning performance), roma and milan (very nice match against cagliari) all won.
the race for the 4th place instead is a mess once again.
as expected, palermo lost against catania. i knew we would have lost this one... but i didn't expect us to play so bad honestly...oh well that's the first bad performance ever since rossi took over, so i'm not gonna complain.
lucky us, napoli got away from the lazio match with just 1 point and juve was simply dismantled by udinese.... so juve didn't close the gap at all and napoli just got 1 point closer. sampdoria instead took advantage of our loss and got 3 points closer..... but to be honest the table looks better than i expected 2 days ago.
inter 66
roma 65
milan 63
palermo 51
samp 51
napoli 49
juveuntus 48
fiorentina 45
genoa 45
at the end of the day the teams that screwed up big time are fiorentina and genoa. they both got just 1 point. if they would have won, they would have finally joined the group with 47 points. they had a great chance and wasted it.
can't say i'm surprised by juve's loss. this udinese is just too superior. i know they're 15th, and they had some problems this season... but just look at their starting formation and u realise this team could kick the crap out of any team in europe (when in good form).... and since marino got back in charge they got back to their beautiful football.
there's an interesting note about the udinese-juve match. in 1996 a legendary udinese-juve game was played. that match too ended with a 3-0 win for udinese. zaccheroni was there too, but on the other side. he was udinese coach those days... a young creative coach, regarded by many as an innovator. that game has an historic importance because it was the first game zaccheroni displayed his famous, typical 3-4-3 formation. that formation will soon become a cornerstone in football.... Van Gaal was coaching barcelona those days.... he watched that match and was so astonished by the brilliance of that tactical display, he wanted to talk with zaccheroni to learn his system..... van gaal will become a famous for "his" 3-4-3.... much more famous (and praised) than the man who actually invented that system and tought him how to display it.
if u would ask to a fan today about van gaal, he would probably reply "he was that genious that created that pass and move 3-4-3 system"..... the same fan could hardly tell u anything about zaccheroni instead..... the irony. life can be cruel sometimes.
bebo
Looking for a Manager
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
so seeing Mourinho in a different light allows you to have a different complex opinion toward him then I get it... Yeah I bet Mourinho took a leaf note of Herrera. He created a love/hate relationship ...you hate him but you love to have him around. That`s my opinion that England has of him. I think Phil Brown tried to do the same before Hull City sacked him . He had no charisma like Mourinho
.
maybe reading that book about herrera finally allowed me to really figure mourinho out.
i really hope this post was not too long
so seeing Mourinho in a different light allows you to have a different complex opinion toward him then I get it... Yeah I bet Mourinho took a leaf note of Herrera. He created a love/hate relationship ...you hate him but you love to have him around. That`s my opinion that England has of him. I think Phil Brown tried to do the same before Hull City sacked him . He had no charisma like Mourinho
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Legend.
Not "almost", but "more". According to math he played 3x38 matches + 23 matches (near 2/3 of another seeason)@ Leo: 137 matches!! that's almost 3 consicutives seasons.
Legend.Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
But they were tough side then, mentally at least.
Would you stop worrying already, as far as I'm concerned Palermo have got this one in the bag, wrapped up, and ready to go home. You might as well stop watching now and tune back in next season. Inter fans on the other hand...
Wow, did not know that. I remember that Udinese, with Bierhoff and Amoroso, Giannichedda (but who was his midfield partner??). Ironically, Juventus won the scudetto that season
But they were tough side then, mentally at least.
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