Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

lo zio said:
all the phone calls go pretty much like this. facchetti, poor fella, thought inter was just being "unlucky" with the refs and so took a phone, called bergamo (one of the referee selectors) and showed his complains to him, asking for some top class referees to be sent at inter's matches.
he had no idea that it wasn't a matter of "luck". he didn't know moggi was behind "inter's bad luck". and he also didn't know that bergamo, the referee selector he was talking to, was one of "moggi's partner in crime".
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I really don't like how they're dragging Fachetti (R.I.P.) into all this, it's a bit of a cheap shot and I'm sure most inter fans are fuming.

I think most english-speaking website are either pro-Juve or Anti-Inter, or even anti-Serie A because accodring to the these articles Fachetti ordered Bergamo to appoint Collina (which I don't understand anyway because he was the best and most fair referee of the lot) yet in the taped phone calls Fachetti says no such thing, as some Italian newspapers have already stated:

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it was in fact Bergamo who brought up Collina. This was the Mogsters... I mean Moggi's ace in the hole and it went to shit.

I think there's another hearing on Friday (right on time for the derby d'italia :APPLAUD:) so the Mogster... I mean Moggi may have more under his sleeve. Could be the phone call Fachetti made to Bergamo where he MAY have asked for a referee (Bertini) to not be assigned to any of our games. Could be because Bertini fucked us over in a game versus Perugia in 2003 :P . Another could be in regards to these so called 'gifts' (a ham, winter gloves and scarf) Moratti sent to Bergamo in December for Christmas, which Moratti has long admitted to. But even Sensi of Roma sent gifts (a Rolex) but this was in September :CONFUSE:

Let me just reaffirm, there were no 'fixed' games (at least not to my knowledge). What Moggi is guilty of is having an influence over referee designators. This is of course difficult to prove or interpret because the Mogster... I mean Moggi, could have in fact just been asking the designators to assign the best possible referees to officiate games. But then why would he use the Swiss SIM cards to make some of these phone calls? And then this, a phone call made to Pierluigi Pairetto, head of the Italian referees' association and a member of Uefa's referees' commission, in reference to a UCL match versus a Swedish team, Djurgarden:

Moggi: But what the fucking kind of referee did you send us?

Pairetto: Fandel is one of the best...

Moggi: Miccoli's goal was valid.

Pairetto: No it wasn't.

Moggi: It was valid, it was valid.

Pairetto: He was in front...

Moggi: What are you talking about in front? And anyway, all through the game he messed things up for us.

Pairetto: But he's one of the top...

Moggi: He can go and fuck himself. And for Stockholm [the return leg] I'm counting on you.
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:LOL:

And in a conversation between Pairetto and Paolo Dondarini, the referee he had selected to officiate a Serie A match between Juventus and Sampdoria.

Pairetto: You know what you have to do. Make sure you see everything. Even that which isn't there.
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If anything happens to Inter, then the same will befall at least 9 other serie A clubs including Milan (who were lucky to not have been relegated), Udinese, Bologna, Roma and Palermo.

All in all, if you're at all interested, stop reading the openly juventino goal.com and do your own research :))
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Milanista said:
If Leonardo does indeed leave, which would be a shame because he stands up to the board, then I'm sure Allegri will take his spot.
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Tassotti will probably takeover. It's time for him to step up. Plus he can be the board's dog :MAD:. Really frustrating to see a coach leave because he asked for more involvement in the transfer market. He is a young coach who has a vision and it seems like he can't achieve it at Milan. I would be really happy for him if he coached Brazil after the WC as he can do the attacking formation thing much better there and it is a better environment for his ego.

Anyway, he must have though he could rely on his relationship with Berlusconi to get him more signings but that didn't work.

About the Calciopoli II thing. I think they named it that so it can be luck for the NT at the WC. :D
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

yeah what they're doing to facchetti is disgusting. he was an honest man, a true gentleman, he spent his "director-carreer" fighting against moggi and his associates. it's really low. and i'm not even an inter fan. actually i'm not even a facchetti fan. i never really liked him.... but i have an enourmous respect for him.
also the thing thing about him asking to have collina for an inter match is ridiculous. first of, coz he didn't. i heard the conversation and it's absolutely evident that is bergamo to mention collina, not facchetti. besides, as u pointed out, collina was one of the referees who weren't involved in the scandal.... collina had nothing to do with this shit. facchetti was asking bergamo to assign inter some top flight referees. bergamo interrupted him while he was talking and said "oh yeah, collina, bertini, paparesta, for this sunday match u'll definitely have a top flight referee".
rfu said:
Let me just reaffirm, there were no 'fixed' games (at least not to my knowledge). What Moggi is guilty of is having an influence over referee designators. This is of course difficult to prove or interpret because the Mogster... I mean Moggi, could have in fact just been asking the designators to assign the best possible referees to officiate games.
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oh no, no, no mate. u're definitely misinformed on this concern. there were fixed games. the magistrates spotted about 13 matches fixed because of moggi's intervention from 2004 to 2006. Moggi didn't ask pairetto and bergamo to assign to juve some top class referees... he ORDERED pairetto and bergamo to assign the "his" referees to the other club's matches. and they always did it coz their carreers depended by moggi. those days the referees association president (lanese) and the referees selectors (bergamo and pairetto) were elected by the presidents. and since moggi could control the elections (as most of the small clubs presidents would have voted for moggi's protegeès, just to do him a favour and maybe get a good deal from one of GEA's represented players), he could use his influence to force them to do what he wanted.
(btw, today the selector and the president of the referees associations are elected by the referee themselves, so there's no risk calciopoli could happen again).

thanks to his influence over lanese (referee's association president) he could decide the referees carreers. many referees knew that lanese was a "Moggi's man" and that their carreer depended on moggi's will, and that obviously had an "effect on their performances".

thanks to his influence over the referee selectors instead (bergamo and pairetto), moggi could decide which referee had to referee wich match on a weekly basis.
mind u, moggi didn't use to "operate" on juve's matches. that would have been too obvious, so he went for a more subtle approach. let me make an example....

let's imagine palermo has to play with udinese this week and with juve next week. well moggi calls bergamo and tells him to send one of "moggi's referees" (like De Santis) to the palermo-udinese match. the ref won't try to change the course of the game with his calls (he won't let palermo loose, if they're winning)..... he will just make sure some of palermo's best players won't be able to play against juve next week.... for instance by giving a double yellow card to kjaer or liverani or pastore.
this way no one will ever blame juve for anything, no one will notice anything.... but palermo will be damaged even before the match against juve begins.

that was the escamotage moggi used to apply more frequently. and yeah rfu, he didn't use money or gifts to reach his goals, he used his power and influence..... but that doesn't mean he didn't fix matches. u see, the most common way to corrupt somebody is a bribe.... but that's not the only one. if i have the power to destroy your carreer and i use this power, this influence, to have u doing what i want u to do.... well that's intimidation and corruption. that's exactly how a mafia boss operates. mafia boss don't bribe, they don't need to bribe anyone, coz their influence and power is much more effective than a bribe.

moggi didn't just fix some matches. he had control of every aspect ot italian football.
he used his power against the players, forcing them to dump their agents and join GEA (his son's agents company). some players refused to do it (miccoli, grabbi, amoruso) and he destroyed their carreers. this is a fact that was proven during the trial... also thanks to miccoli's deposition.
that was a great depotision. miccoli simply OWNED moggi's lawyer. i was really proud he was a palermo player that day, as i realised what a honest corageous and nice person fabrizio miccoli is. :WORSHIP:

he used his power against his associates. in order to please moggi (and to get some good deals with the players represented by GEA agents) many small club presidents used to ask moggi who to vote for at the elections for the referees association president, or at the election for the Lega Calcio president (the Lega Calcio is some sort of a serie a parliament).

he used his power against his enemies. Della valle (fiorentina), Sensi (roma), Moratti (inter) Zamparini (palermo)..... all theese presidents had their battles with moggi during the Lega Calcio assemblies.... for different reasons. Sensi battled with him coz he wanted bergamo and pairetto out. Zamparini battled with him for a more fair tv-right money distribution. Della valle battled with him coz he thought the Lega Calcio wasn't as democratic as it should have been (and now we can say he was damn right).
Moggi used his influence over "his referees" to damange their clubs..... he almost kicked fiorentina in serie b! (that is a really disgusting story i won't talk about here coz it would make this post way too long)

so let's set the records striaght.... this whole show moggi is putting on is aimed to create confusion. he tried to make the point that also other club presidents used to call bergamo and pairetto to ask for better referees..... but that means nothing... there's no harm in asking for a quality ref..... and that's not what moggi used to do. he used to fix matches thanks to corrupted referees (the ones who were kicked out when the scandal blew up: De santis, Rodomonti, Babini and Puglisi), and his influence over the referee selectors allowed him to make sure those referees were always sent to "control" the matches he wanted them to fix.
he also used his power over the players (forcing them to join GEA), over small clubs presidents, over some Federcalcio directors (like Innocenzo Mazzini).

so make no mistake, Luciano Moggi is a criminal, as the guilty verdict already proved (and as this second appeal verdict will most likely confirm).

and mind u, all the things i'm saying here are undenyable. everything i wrote has been proved in a courtroom during the first instance trial (wich ended with a guilty verdict that will definitely be confirmed at the end of this appeal). this are facts.

and btw, i just scratched the surface here... i could have talked about many other things, like his control over some media, or like the threats against the players, or like the things he did in order to destroy della valle and send fiorentina in serie b... or like those famous untraceable sim cards he gave to his (corrupted) referees, in order to safely talk with them about his plans...... but that would really take too much time. :))
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

cheers, lo zio. thank you for the enlightenment on this case. rly helped a non-italian fan.

@rFu are you by chance a member of goal.com forums? i don't trust their articles, but they definitely have some forum members with footballing brains there. :D
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

fishball said:
@rFu are you by chance a member of goal.com forums? i don't trust their articles, but they definitely have some forum members with footballing brains there. :D
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Nope. Although I know of a few smart inter fans who are members. By the way, anyone see goal.com's latest headline: Inter Could Risk Relegation, Juventus Could Claim Compensation Of €200 Million :OOOH: :LOL: Too bad goal.com gets their info from the pro-Juve newspapers La stampa and tutto sport :BLEH: This will never, ever happen, I repeat, never, EVER happennot only because there hasn't been any real evidence presented, but because the time has already lapsed. This applies to the other serie a sides that are being accused.

By the way Lo Zio, are there any Pro-Inter newspapers in italy? The equivalents of the Pro-Real Madrid Marca? Possibly gazetta dello sport?

Oh, and did anyone catch this a few weeks back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tWXnkgCyGk

No conspiracy talk and it's not as if Camoranesi is Messi, but C'MON!! That was worth, at the very least, a yellow.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Jumbo_ said:
No, I think FIFA changed some rules somewhere and forgot to tell the public.

This was allowed too, the referee said he saw it and didn't feel it was worth a booking.

YouTube - Gerrard Elbows Brown [HD]
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Haha quality, brown is a bit of foulish twat himself. But according to the BBC: FA rules do not allow retrospective action against a player if the official sees the alleged offence. At least the ref gave Gerrard a talking to but NOTHING happened with Camoranesi. It was an ON-THE-BALL incident, Jugay were bearing down on goal... what's more the incident was simply forgotten.

And didn't Gerrard gesture a 'wanker' sign at a referee once and get away with it? Or a "V" sign? :APPLAUD:

Anyway, the reason I give a toss is because if Camo had been correctly red carded he would've missed tomorrows game versus Inter. It's probably a good thing otherwise Candreva might have instead played and being an unknown entity, the Inter midfield would have let him wreck too much havoc.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Yeah the week before that, he got booked by another ref so he told him to fuck off and stuck 2 fingers up and got away with that too. This ref didn't even give him a talking to for the punch though and how he can say he saw someone using violent conduct and didn't deem a card necessary is just wrong! The ref in question is very young (25) and has caused controversy before when he gave a 'phantom' goal to a team when the ball clearly went out for a goalkick so I guess we're dealing with incompetence here and he's probably intimidated by players like Gerrard! :LOL:
YouTube - Watford v Reading ghost goal

Anyway, sorry for the OT just thought I'd share the similarity between poor refereeing to make you feel a bit better!
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

rfU said:
FA rules do not allow retrospective action against a player if the official sees the alleged offence.
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yeah that's how it goes in italy aswell. anyhow the ref defintitely dropped the ball on camoranesi's foul.

btw, all this calciopoli talk made me forget we have 2 huge matches this week end!! roma-lazio and inter juve. both match might well turn out to be vital for the scudetto race. that's gonna be interesting.

rfu, about your newspapers question, no, there isn't another crappy-biased sport newspaper like tuttosport in italy... at least not that i recall. tuttosport is indeed the only sport newspaper that fits well in the average spanish\english newspapers category. the other main newspapers (la gazzetta dello sport and il corriere dello sport) are pure italian journalism (high quality and unbiased).
although i got to say i'm not much updated on the matter, as i haven't bought a sport newspaper in years now (i used to read il corriere till a few years ago).
fishball said:
cheers, lo zio. thank you for the enlightenment on this case. rly helped a non-italian fan.
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don't mention it mate. that's what this thread is about ;)
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

@Lo Zio
thanks for these fantastic posts.
I don't like nowadays situation. mainly bislusconis TVs are showing Moggi 1000 times every day, like he's the Messia, and obviously they don't say a word about Meani "new" interceptations or what the "new 74 interceptations" contain.
I'm really hating this misinformation, that's why nowadays in lot of italian forums you can find only juventus fanboys (or bimbominkia in italian slang) complainting Inter, or Roma saying they want 2006 Scudetto, etc.
Also in rfu's last video we can see Paparesta, obviously in a Mediaset show. And what makes me go crazy is what Moggi and his lawyers are doing with a dead person, it's too easy to accuse a person who can't reply to you, and I believe they can do it also with Franco Sensi if they need it. Oh, how many words can we say about Agnelli's family and all public money they got to save FIAT, and nowadays we have made in Poland italian cars and hundred or more italians without job.

rfU said:
By the way Lo Zio, are there any Pro-Inter newspapers in italy? The equivalents of the Pro-Real Madrid Marca? Possibly gazetta dello sport?
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For what I know, in Italy there is "Il Romanista" who is a Pro-Roma daily newspaper, I believe 90% of pages are about Roma and 51% about Totti.
Also "Il Corriere dello Sport" was founded in Rome but nowadays support 70% Roma and 30% Lazio.
"Tuttosport" was founded in Torino, and support 90% Juventus and 10% Torino (also because juventus supporters are way more than torino's)
"La Gazzetta dello Sport" is the more fair newspaper. It have a closer look to both Milano's teams (I believe in equal manner) but also in general Serie A and other sports. Surely the best italian sport newspaper, the most polite and historic with their pink colour :)
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Leo Messi said:
For what I know, in Italy there is "Il Romanista" who is a Pro-Roma daily newspaper, I believe 90% of pages are about Roma and 51% about Totti.
Also "Il Corriere dello Sport" was founded in Rome but nowadays support 70% Roma and 30% Lazio.
"Tuttosport" was founded in Torino, and support 90% Juventus and 10% Torino (also because juventus supporters are way more than torino's)
"La Gazzetta dello Sport" is the more fair newspaper. It have a closer look to both Milano's teams (I believe in equal manner) but also in general Serie A and other sports. Surely the best italian sport newspaper, the most polite and historic with their pink colour :)
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yeah i forgot about il romanista. as for il corriere, i always found it pretty balanced and unbiased. some of the greatest sport journalists in italy wrote for it: ghirelli, sconcerti, rizzo, tosatti and so on. i really can't stand their current editor in chief though (vocalelli).

la gazzetta too is a very good newspaper, but it talks a bit too much about the top clubs, snubbing the little ones like palermo, so i never really got into it. :))
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Don't know about newspapers but I use Gazzetta's website a lot.

Although that's mainly because it's one of the few to have an English alternative. :P
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Leo Messi said:
@Lo Zio
thanks for these fantastic posts.
I don't like nowadays situation. mainly bislusconis TVs are showing Moggi 1000 times every day, like he's the Messia, and obviously they don't say a word about Meani "new" interceptations or what the "new 74 interceptations" contain.
I'm really hating this misinformation, that's why nowadays in lot of italian forums you can find only juventus fanboys (or bimbominkia in italian slang) complainting Inter, or Roma saying they want 2006 Scudetto, etc.
Click to expand...

Haha the Roman's can go to hell, they've done much worse than us in terms speaking with referees and selectors, sending gifts, secret phone calls etc... But I think now a fair trial is impossible because of this media circus and Moggi's misinformation. For example, in his transcripts, he argues the Fachetti said "put Collina" in reference to an upcoming match, but when you listen to the actual audio it is in fact Bergamo who mentions Collina.

At this point, I think the absolute worst that could happen is that Inter get it's 2005/2006 championship revoked or possibly Moggi doesn't go to jail. But the biggest loser is Italian football. We're already branded as a boring, defensive league, we don't need more this match fixing, scandals, bribery, and whatever mafioso type tactics bullshit.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I believe there are two reasons:
1) Maybe he's bored of Berlusconi&Galliani dictatorship
2) Dunga said he will leave Brazil after WC...

BTW, Leo denied it some minutes ago.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I just heard a very good story about Totti.
There's this English journalist whose son goes to the same school as Totti's son.
Totti goes after his kid on a daily basis and has an almost daily chat with the school's caretaker who is a huge football fan but supports Juve.
Now after the match that Roma has won against Juventus, Totti's sees the caretaker and asks him if he enjoyed the match. The caretaker says he didn't and then Totti says, well i think you will enjoy this and produces a Juventus shirt from Del Piero, which issigned by the Juventus squad.

Beautifull story..nice chap Totti.
Cynics might doubt it, but i like those kind of stories and always pretend stubbornly that they are true.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

gerd said:
I just heard a very good story about Totti.
There's this English journalist whose son goes to the same school as Totti's son.
Totti goes after his kid on a daily basis and has an almost daily chat with the school's caretaker who is a huge football fan but supports Juve.
Now after the match that Roma has won against Juventus, Totti's sees the caretaker and asks him if he enjoyed the match. The caretaker says he didn't and then Totti says, well i think you will enjoy this and produces a Juventus shirt from Del Piero, which issigned by the Juventus squad.

Beautifull story..nice chap Totti.
Cynics might doubt it, but i like those kind of stories and always pretend stubbornly that they are true.
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On the field he sometimes lets his emotions get to him, but on tv he's quite a funny guy imo. He regularly does adverts for Vodafone with his wife Ilary (I think shes very hot).
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

*aLe said:
Well, I really hope he stays, but it's a site of Berlusconi's that gives the news:
http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/calcio/articoli/articolo31401.shtml

So sad if it's true.. :(

One of the players I adored the most along with Boban.. After the initial shock of having to see Ancelotti go I was SO happy Leo was AC's manager.. Well, NEVER SAY NEVER anyway!!
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You know, I can't even remember Leonardo in his playing days at Milan. But why make the announcement now and not at the end of the season? It's a needless distraction. They can still manage second. Oh well.

In other news... Jugay got OWNED :LOL: Fuck you chellini, you beak-nosed cunt :LOL: I admit, I was a bit worried. After all those Milito misses, I thought, it's going to be one of those nights (see Roma game). Anyone catch Mou's celebration after the second goal? :LOL: Too funny
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

gerd said:
I just heard a very good story about Totti.
There's this English journalist whose son goes to the same school as Totti's son.
Totti goes after his kid on a daily basis and has an almost daily chat with the school's caretaker who is a huge football fan but supports Juve.
Now after the match that Roma has won against Juventus, Totti's sees the caretaker and asks him if he enjoyed the match. The caretaker says he didn't and then Totti says, well i think you will enjoy this and produces a Juventus shirt from Del Piero, which issigned by the Juventus squad.

Beautifull story..nice chap Totti.
Cynics might doubt it, but i like those kind of stories and always pretend stubbornly that they are true.
Click to expand...

Good story, most footballers are just normal people, its the media and critics which label players as something their not.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

rfU said:
You know, I can't even remember Leonardo in his playing days at Milan. But why make the announcement now and not at the end of the season? It's a needless distraction. They can still manage second. Oh well.

In other news... Jugay got OWNED :LOL: Fuck you chellini, you beak-nosed cunt :LOL: I admit, I was a bit worried. After all those Milito misses, I thought, it's going to be one of those nights (see Roma game). Anyone catch Mou's celebration after the second goal? :LOL: Too funny
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I thought Lucio was a beast tonight. I know Maicon is an interista-di-merda but, I enjoyed his heart-thump. I really rate him as one of the best full backs around today. Balotelli came on for about 10 minutes and although he didn't do much, what he did was like gold.

Juve were unlucky and I think the commentators on Mediaset were extremely harsh on his performance. Sissoko was an idiot, I'd blame him.

I thought Cannavaro was quite good, which is good news for Lippi.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

:LOL: His reaction to Maicon's goal (and what a goal!!) was entertaining too! hahaha
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

rfU said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D79AmKl6qfM

:LOL: :LOL:
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Loving his rendition of Montella's aeroplane :LOL:

Back to business, lo zio and I were discussing how best to beat Barca, what formation and tactics to employ etc. Mou tried out a 4-1-4-1 formation midweek versus Fiorentina in a coppa match. It worked well in nullifying Fiore's wide men and Jovetic and Gilardino in the middle. I would field Maicon as a right midfielder and Eto'o wide left in order to keep Alves busy. The key is to man-mark Xavi without leaving too much of a gap between the midfield and defence for Messi to run rampant. With a 3-man midfield fixed centrally, we can do just that. Thoughts?
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

The thing about man marking Xavi is they tried it before. I was watching an analysis about Barcelona a while back that showed how they play very high up the field that the back line becomes very close to the midfield which is a help for Xavi since he always moves from team player to player following the ball waiting for the pass to make his killer one.

Lately, Guardiola started putting more players in midfield leaving Messi and Pedro who is turning into something up front. He did it against Real and Arsenal. Real actually played it physical but Messi's ability to handle his pace was just awesome.
 
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