Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

yup nice celebration by mou... if only he weren't always so serious i'm sure he'd be quite a nice fella.

speaking ot the inter-juve match, rfu, i'd say "owned" is a bit of a stretch. inter certainly deserved and were obviously the better team, but juve looked pretty decent till sissoko's second yellow card.

concerning the upcoming barca match, yeah, xavi will defeinitely be double marked, and yes, one of the markers will be set on man marking (while snejder will probably be set on zone coverage in xavi's area).
as sina said a few days ago, that won't really nullify barca, but if u do prevent xavi from getting any clean passing trajectory (wich is an enourmous feat!), then barca's plays-construction will have to go through busquets or yaya, wich would make things a lot easier for inter.

of course barca can still be terrificly dangerous from the flanks.... but on that department, there's not much u can do.

the thing is, if u go for the diamond midfield, u can make things pretty complicated for xavi, but u're also in pain on the sides, as u can't deploy the attacking trio upfront (wich would be vital to keep dani busy and to test barca's defense in their main weak point wich is the left side).
if u go for the 3 guys upfront setup instead, u can try to keep the possession line in barca's territory (wich would be great), but then u also have to defend high (to keep the lines tight) and that might turn out to be a suicide (as arsenal proved.... yeah i know inter's defence is a completely different thing from arsenal's... but still i would really feel unconfortable keeping the defensive line high against messi).

i think a great idea to beat barca would be to kidnap messi, xavi, ibra, dani, pique and puyol..... :P
or better yet, a great plan b would be to.....

just call moggi :D
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

lo zio said:
if u go for the 3 guys upfront setup instead, u can try to keep the possession line in barca's territory (wich would be great), but then u also have to defend high (to keep the lines tight) and that might turn out to be a suicide (as arsenal proved.... yeah i know inter's defence is a completely different thing from arsenal's... but still i would really feel unconfortable keeping the defensive line high against messi).
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Yeah same.

With Iniesta out though, I think taking Xavi out of the game IF it can be managed successfully and I think Inter can do that better than most, would be the #1 step to stopping Barca. It doesn't mean, you'll be successful but it does seem like the most important thing to do as Mr. Hernandez has always been a god anyway but in recent weeks, some of the passes he's provided is just !!! :SHOCK: :WORSHIP: :SHOCK: And he's just controlled the match with his excellent performances and 'influence' on dictation of the play.

Anyhow, I don't know if we'll get to see it, perhaps not, but if so, I'm really looking forward to the battle of the Milito brothers! (who look nothing alike by the way lol! ).

Diego vs. Gabriel!

Now that would be nice to see! Being former team-mates and brothers and I imagine very close and both being two of the best in their respective positions, it'd be great to see them go head to head perhaps as they once did as children to see who comes out on top!

I think Diego would give his injury-prone brother some trouble this time. :) But perhaps we won't see this battle anyway with Pique and Puyol in middle... just gonna have to wait and see.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

lo zio said:
if u go for the 3 guys upfront setup instead, u can try to keep the possession line in barca's territory (wich would be great), but then u also have to defend high (to keep the lines tight) and that might turn out to be a suicide (as arsenal proved.... yeah i know inter's defence is a completely different thing from arsenal's... but still i would really feel unconfortable keeping the defensive line high against messi).
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It was not just the high defensive line that resulted in Arsenal being destroyed. The fact that Messi wasn't man-marked didn't help (but that's easier said than done, who can truly keep up with his pace once he has swivelled past you?), but also that Barcelona were allowed so much space in wider areas and to have a lot of space in general in the centre of the pitch- particularly towards the end. And let's not forget that Arsenal were using Silvestre, which is like playing with two men down. Arsenal's biggest weakness, the back-line, is Inter's biggest strength and I don't thnk you can truly compare Arsenal's fate to how the match will pan out for Internazionale.

Hopefully Julio Cesar won't do what Aranzubia allowed Pedro to do last Wednesday :P
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I heard him one time keep calling Seedorf Willy 3 years ago in a match against Napoli or Palermo I think. Why Willy? :D
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Zeem said:
I heard him one time keep calling Seedorf Willy 3 years ago in a match against Napoli or Palermo I think. Why Willy? :D
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Willy for Willy Wonka. And what was Willy Wonka famous for? It's a very un-politically correct nick-name, and can be considered quite offensive.

Besides, surely Willy Wonka is a more suitable nickname for Kaladze? After all, he must live in a "world of pure imagination" if he can't understand why he hasn't been a mainstay in the Milan back-line.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

GoonerLover66 said:
It was not just the high defensive line that resulted in Arsenal being destroyed. The fact that Messi wasn't man-marked didn't help (but that's easier said than done, who can truly keep up with his pace once he has swivelled past you?)
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He could.

GENTILE.jpg
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

GoonerLover66 said:
It was not just the high defensive line that resulted in Arsenal being destroyed.
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of course it wasn't just about that. ;) that was just one of the topics of interest in that match, and i remarked only that one just coz it might be a factor in the inter-barca match aswell.

the problem about man marking a player like messi is that by doing that u "gift" a player to your opponents. the player who is set on man marking can't be involved in the plays: and i'm not just talking about the plays u build... i'm also talking about reacting to the opponent's plays; assigning a defender a specific man to mark means losing something in terms of coverage.
so the point is, if u wanna go for man marking, then u need a defender who can man mark for real. when u go for man marking u're sacrificing a player, so at the very least, u have to be sure he'll get the job done. but u can't be sure of that coz there are NO players who know how to man mark today.

sacchi's revolution "banned" man marking from football. zone coverage was a great conquest for football, no doubt about it.
but we exagerated and started considering man marking as something negative, and that was our big mistake.
we didn't notice the consequences of this mistake till the end of the 90s, coz, even though man marking was getting out of vogue, our "football teachers", our defender's coaches were still the same who used to educate the likes of Gentile (the man hey there wisely mentioned). so even though our defenders used to cover the zone, they still knew how to man mark (coz they were thought how to).
but in 10 years, all of those great coaches retired or died, and the new generation of defenders coaches had no idea what man marking was all about.

as a result our defenders today can't man mark.... coz no one ever taught them the "craft"..... and no one ever taught what the art of defending really is about (man marking) coz their teachers don't know it either.

last year i had the chance to have a conversation on the matter with zeman. i was telling him my expectations about barzagli and how andrea disappointed me.
zdenek enlightened me. he explained me i was wrong in the first place. he told me barzagli could have never become the defender i thought he would have become, because that kind of defenders doesn't exist anymore... and it will never exsist anymore coz there are no coaches who could teach barzagli the things Mariani taught to Gentile (for example).

he told me "u can't blame barzagli for that. he was never supposed to become a difensore, coz no one could teach him the craft of being a difensore. he's a stopper, like all the defenders out there today. he belongs to the new zone coverage generation, so there's no way he'll ever be a difensore. the world is full of stoppers today. some of them are world class stoppers, but still, they're nothing more than stoppers. they read the plays, but they can't read the players movements, coz no one taught them how to".

that's why today it's almost impossible to man mark a player with short legs, great touch and huge acceleration like messi. coz u need craft to do that.

i think the best way to deal with barca today would be to "go rinus michels" on them. man marking at midfield and zone coverage in defense.
coz if u put a defender on man marking over messi, u won't be able to really contain messi and u will also leave some huge holes in the defensive line.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

lo zio said:
i think the best way to deal with barca today would be to "go rinus michels" on them. man marking at midfield and zone coverage in defense.
coz if u put a defender on man marking over messi, u won't be able to really contain messi and u will also leave some huge holes in the defensive line.
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An interesting point and a very well presented and erudite post. But wasn't Lionel Messi effectively marked out of the first leg by Vermaelen, although, granted, it is equally feasible that Messi was simply off form for that game. Obviously the problem in the first leg was that whilst Vermaelen was off, sticking to Messi like glue, that Song didn't really slot into the gap to cover for Vermaelen - Messi decided to take Vermaelen for a bit of a ride by taking him all over the pitch, a little bit like Alfredo Di Stefano of old - and so Xavi and Pique, being the intelligent passers we know them to be, slotted balls into this space that Ibrahimovic, being the intelligent striker we know him to be, could test the keeper with.

But yes, the art of defending has changed vastly in the modern game. Yes, players tend to read plays and not player movements. If we cast our minds back to, say, the 1994 World Cup we remember a young Maldini (Okay he was 26, but that was young for Maldini :D) we remember a player who seemed to embody the bright side of Italian defending; not cynical or violent, but a player who used an acute understanding of angles to channel a player away - defending using mathematics, but as an art. Nowadays you're more likely to see a player perform a last-ditch sliding tackle or, depending on their ability, a body-check. But I don't believe it's forgotten, there were numerous times in Manchester United versus Arsenal matches over the last couple of years in which Clichy would use these angles to "close the lock" on a Ronaldo run or where Evra would channel Nasri or Walcott to running the ball off of the pitch. So in my opinion, the "technology" still exists but it's only being used by the more skilled terzino's of the world (and maybe Sagna).

What I believe has changed radically is the communication of back-line and goalkeeper. For many years defenders and keeper a like would bellow at each other to try and organise the back-line whether it be to keep the shape of the line, to organise a sudden rush to catch an opposing striker offside or to simply get them into position. I can remember vividly from Premier League games in the 90s Peter Schmeichel straining his throat and going hoarse whilst organising the Manchester United defence, even when they weren't in action and when they were playing well. But this wasn't anything spectacular. That's what defenders were supposed to do, they were supposed to command the backline, and countless defenders did precisely this - if you didn't you were inexperienced or so intuitive that you could do it all yourself. But if you were to compare to the Premier League matches now, the number of people that do command the back-line and who are vocal seems to be dwindling. I'm not sure why this is. Perhaps with people marking zones everyone is entrusted with their own unique responsibility and should give their sole focus to that and not the actions of others?

I dunno, I'm just really pissed off with today's result. How the hell can you turn being 2-0 up into being 3-2 down over the course of 10 minutes against a team who hasn't won in such a long time that Titus Bramble is their best defender?!

@Hey there: No he didn't really have the pace. But he was tactically astute and was probably the greatest man-marker of his generation. Actually no, he wasn't. This guy was the greatest:
chuck-norris-002-thumb-400x498.jpg
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

goonerlover said:
@Hey there: No he didn't really have the pace. But he was tactically astute and was probably the greatest man-marker of his generation. Actually no, he wasn't. This guy was the greatest:
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:LOL: nice one. it must be said though, Gentile kept quiet maradona very well on several occasions.... and maradona's pace was just as crazy and frenzy as messi's :))
goonerlover said:
But wasn't Lionel Messi effectively marked out of the first leg by Vermaelen, although, granted, it is equally feasible that Messi was simply off form for that game
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true. the point is, if messi is on form, man marking him becomes a nightmare. and since, by putting a man over him u lose something in terms of coverage, the game may not be worth the candle. :))
Goonerlover said:
But I don't believe it's forgotten, there were numerous times in Manchester United versus Arsenal matches over the last couple of years in which Clichy would use these angles to "close the lock" on a Ronaldo run or where Evra would channel Nasri or Walcott to running the ball off of the pitch. So in my opinion, the "technology" still exists but it's only being used by the more skilled terzino's of the world (and maybe Sagna).
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yeah, that's true. but the thing is (as you correctly pointed out in that last statement), it's not a matter of craft anymore. it's a matter of talent, of skill. there are some cbs who have an innate ability to read and interpretate the movements (of the legs and shoulders) of their opponents. those defenders can indeed man mark pretty well.

but till 15 years ago every centre back (especially in italy) could man mark. coz even the less talented cbs used to receive an education by coaches who used to teach man marking. of course they weren't as good as the great ones, but still they knew what to do. today instead man marking became some sort of a "secret art", wich is prerogative of just a few defenders.
goonerlover said:
What I believe has changed radically is the communication of back-line and goalkeeper. For many years defenders and keeper a like would bellow at each other to try and organise the back-line whether it be to keep the shape of the line, to organise a sudden rush to catch an opposing striker offside or to simply get them into position
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that's a very good point indeed. there aren't many vocal goalkeepers today... or at least not as many as there were till 10 years ago. schmeichel is indeed a great example. peruzzi too belongs to that category of "leading goalkeepers"

as for the comunication between defenders instead, i dunno. i can think of many vocal defensive line leaders to be honest.
goonerlover said:
Perhaps with people marking zones everyone is entrusted with their own unique responsibility and should give their sole focus to that and not the actions of others?
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mmmh no, i don't think that's the reason. if anything, zone coverage implies a more collaborative effort between defenders, hence comunication should be even more important than it was during the man marking era (in the man marking era, defending was all about "1 on 1" situations). the discover of zone coverage turned defending into a group effort and the intensive use of the offside trap in modern football should increase the player's urge to coordinate their movements even more.

maybe it might be down to the training sessions increase? till 10 years ago the clubs had from 2 to 4 training sessions per week, while today there is a training session scheduled every day except monday (the day after the match)..... maybe the higher number of practices and traning sessions built a deeper chemistry between the players and brought them to know each others so well that they don't need to talk each others as often as they used to???
i don't know, i'm just merely guessing here. :))

edit:
right now i'm watching the pre match of roma-lazio... WOW! simply unbelievable.... that's even more impressive than the genova derby. just fantastic. if the game itself will be half as exciting as this crowd is, this will be a great show! :))
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

There was an interesting blog by Tim Vickery regarding the use of Messi as a decoy in that first leg and how Maradona uses him there for Argentina.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Aboutreika18 said:
There was an interesting blog by Tim Vickery regarding the use of Messi as a decoy in that first leg and how Maradona uses him there for Argentina.
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Pffft....Maradona doesn't know how to use him. Maradona plays Messi, for Argentina, as one of two strikers who doesn't recieve support from the centre of midfield and in which the wide midfielders stay wide, scarcely ever cutting inside. With Barcelona it's a stark contrast; he has two forwards in constant support with him, he has Xavi and Iniesta joining him and he has Dani Alves bombing past. With Barcelona Messi gets the ball when the team has had countless touches and he always has the option to pass to a supporting player or he gets placed into a position where he's one-on-one with the keeper or a lone defender. With Argentina they just give him the ball and pray that Messi can worm his way around.

If Maradona knew how to use Messi then he'd try and centre the team around him rather than constantly try out all these new players. By the end of his first year in charge he had called up 78 players, he has a scatter-gun policy of squad selection and so there's never any cohesion. The player's never have a chance to gel and to play together for a while because Maradona's always thrusting someone different into that place. If Maradona knew how to use his players properly or how to manage players properly then Argentina wouldn't have struggled so much during the World Cup qualification.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

GoonerLover66 said:
Pffft....Maradona doesn't know how to use him. Maradona plays Messi, for Argentina, as one of two strikers who doesn't recieve support from the centre of midfield and in which the wide midfielders stay wide, scarcely ever cutting inside. With Barcelona it's a stark contrast; he has two forwards in constant support with him, he has Xavi and Iniesta joining him and he has Dani Alves bombing past. With Barcelona Messi gets the ball when the team has had countless touches and he always has the option to pass to a supporting player or he gets placed into a position where he's one-on-one with the keeper or a lone defender. With Argentina they just give him the ball and pray that Messi can worm his way around.

If Maradona knew how to use Messi then he'd try and centre the team around him rather than constantly try out all these new players. By the end of his first year in charge he had called up 78 players, he has a scatter-gun policy of squad selection and so there's never any cohesion. The player's never have a chance to gel and to play together for a while because Maradona's always thrusting someone different into that place. If Maradona knew how to use his players properly or how to manage players properly then Argentina wouldn't have struggled so much during the World Cup qualification.
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I've criticised Maradona's incompetence enough in the past, Tom, so I can't be bothered going into that again.

The specific quote regarding Messi's role in the Argentina team is below:

On the evidence of last month's 1-0 win away to Germany, Argentina have also worked out how to use Messi as a decoy. He drags the opposing defence over to the right, creating space for Angel Di Maria to fly down the other flank.

This is something that national team coach Diego Maradona understands well. In his finest hour, the 1986 World Cup, he took out England and Belgium single handedly on the way to the final, where he met the full force of the German marking.

What did he do? He dragged his markers all over the field and provided passes for his team-mates, like the one from which Jorge Burruchaga scored the winning goal. It was superb individual talent placed at the service of the collective - and that is the mark of the truly great player.
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

rfU said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68We5LDB69U

:CURSE:
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From football-italia:

Francesco Totti has apologised for the ‘thumbs down’ gesture that infuriated Lazio, as clashes outside the Olimpico marred the derby.

The Roma captain repeatedly made the gesture after the final whistle of the 2-1 victory, which many took to mean Lazio were ‘going down.’

“I’m sorry if someone was offended by my way of celebrating. I let myself get caught up in the passionate atmosphere of this triumph, but didn’t want to hurt anyone,” said Totti.

He revealed it was aimed at Roberto Baronio, who had made the same gesture to him after the derby earlier this season with the words “you’re finished.”

“The truth is that celebration and amusing sarcasm at the end of the game lightens the atmosphere that is felt so intensely in the city.”

Certain supporters did not see it that way, as there were violent clashes around the Stadio Olimpico.

Four Roma fans were stabbed, one in a serious but stable condition, while cars were set alight and objects thrown.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

yeah that surprised me aswell.
anyway, the usual disgraceful stuff by roma\lazio ultras after the match... what a shame. they should send those criminals in prison and throw away the key... bloody bastards. what a shameful way to ruin the beautiful show the crowd offer before and during the game.
as for totti's gesture, the "thumbs down" doesn't just mean "u're going down". it's the gesture the emperor used to do to order the gladiator to show no mercy and kill the defeated rival (back in the roman empire days). it's traditional ancient (very ancient) roman folklore.... it was not a really classy thing to do, but folklore has nothing to do with class afterall. the thing is it wasn't a very clever thing to do, coz lazio's ultras are very bad sports and went mad because of that mocking gesture.
francesco is a good guy.... but he's never been a clever man. and certainly he's far from being classy.

anyhow, the man of the week is definitely Claudio Ranieri! check out the balls on this man!!!! calling off de rossi and totti at halftime??!! sure both were playing very bad.... actually they weren't playing at all. i've never seen de rossi and totti playing like this in their entire careers. being romani and romanisti they obviously feel the derby against lazio way too much.... but this time it was even worse, as this derby was also a key match for the scudetto race... too much tension, too much pressure. they just couldn't deliver.

but still, i can guarrantee (and every journalist, commentator, coach who was interviewed yesterday said the same) NO ONE would have ever subbed totti and de rossi in a derby. it doesn't matter how bad they were playing, u just can't do that.... it's like swearing in church or drinking wine in a mosque.. it's like going for a trip in texas wearing a turban and with a nice arab-style beard or like going in india wearing a pakistan cricket team jersey... u just don't do that, no matter what.

u see, if ranieri would have left things the way they were, if he wouldn't have changed the whole line up and subbed de rossi and totti, then he would have certainly lost the game.... but no one would have blamed him for that.
but this man is so confident and has such a grip on his players that he could afford to do something no one else would have even thought. as ranieri himself admitted after the game "when i decided to call de rossi and totti off the game, i knew that if i wouldn't have won the game, my coaching carreer would have been pretty much over"..... and yet he did it. now THIS IS CONFIDENCE guys! risking to destroy your reputation for a single move, going "all in" knowing u don't even have such a good hand. jeopardazing an entire season to follow your instinct and guts. that was great. and the most impressive thing is that the team followed him. totti and de rossi didn't go have a shower. they both sit on the bench cheering like they were normal fans.... and their teammates showed their total trust in their coach by coming up with an impressive second half (wich was the only good thing of a pretty disappointing and boring match, to be honest).

at this point we can say that this team is not anymore the former spalletti's roma. this is officially ranieri's roma. and if roma will actually manage to win this scudetto (wich, given the circumstances, would be the most impressive achievement and the greatest comeback in the history of serie a), then ranieri will have to get all the credits for this MIRACLE!

there would be many other things to talk about. napoli came out with an impressive performance in bari. genoa had very important win against this fantastic parma. samp beated milan and got the 4th spot, while palermo (luckily) managed to get an unexpected (at least by me) draw at cagliari. but i don't have enought time and i thought ranieri deserved the "head line" this week.

that's how the table looks right now
immaginehz.png


So, sina, tom, stef, leo, rfu, abou, everybody... any thoughts on this weekend games? which one did u watch? i'm actually quite curious about how the samp-milan game unfolded. :))
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Not much to say Ben. I didn't really expect anything more than a draw seeing as Sampdoria needed the win more than us. I never expected Milan to win the league ever since the 1-1 tie with Napoli. We had a player sent off for a stupid challenge and tried to create with what we had, and we got close to scoring. But we didn't score and got tired, with Oddo as center back and Borriello lone striker so the rest of the team could defend. I'm already waiting for next season.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

According to lot of Roma fans I know, De Rossi never played a good Derby (he feels too much the game) and Totti's last good Derby was something like 5 years ago. So they agreed with Ranieri, both them were ghosts, so respect for Ranieri's idea, he did a good but hard thing.

About Scudetto race, I believe Roma is finishing fuel. In last matches it's thanks to individual players that Roma won (Vucinic for example). But Inter is not that better, because they have to play a match more than Roma (Inter have to play 2 CL matches, and Roma a CI match) and this can let go away important energies. Plus, Roma is going to play with teams that already are on holidays (Parma, Cagliari and Chievo) and only a team who is fighting for a CL place, so as they (fans + journalists) accused Inter to did a "biscotto" (for english mates: we say "biscotto" when in our sick minds two teams agreed to final result, like Sweden-Denmark 2-2 in Euro 2004 for example) with Fiorentina (but then we draw 2-2...LOL, a perfect "biscotto" for us, indeed) we can do the same with them in the last 3 matches....oh, unuseful journalists...

About Totti's thumbs down, I want only to say he's the same kid as ever. I never saw a Juventus, Milan or Inter player do all those things in a Derby or important match, and I never saw that war outside San Siro or Delle Alpi, but seeing what Radu and Totti did after the match we could expect that war; it's a civility problem that in Rome always existed, and lot of idiots are fomented by these acts by their favourite players.

About next week, Ben pardon me but I'm really hoping for a Sampdoria victory :P
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Leo Messi said:
I never saw a Juventus [...] player do all those things in a Derby
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Well, Maresca anyone?
200472.jpg

For the ones that don't know what he's doing, he's mocking a bull: Torino is confidentially called "the bull" (because of the assonace between "Torino" and "toro", the Italian word for bull), so I think this is even worse than Totti's thumbs down..

Anyway, about "biscotti", Leo.. I'm very worried that HUGE "biscotti" could happen with Bologna, seriously.. Bologna (apart from the match @ Atalanta) have to face teams that have nothing to say anymore to this championship, so..
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

*aLe said:
Well, Maresca anyone?
200472.jpg
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hehe...Maresca :P The fact is he did it once, Totti how many times mocked Lazio supporters? This is what I wanted to say :)
To me, in general, the problem is that if a "totem" do something wrong, so all the supporters will do it or something related. I'm one of who thinks that supporters violence is generated also by players violence, and if Radu started a riot, if Totti made that act, you can't expect fans will not take example from them.
I strongly hope that there are disqualifications for what happened yesterday outside the stadium. but knowing that in previous years never happened (related to these 2 teams), I do not hope so much. What a shame.

*aLe said:
Anyway, about "biscotti", Leo.. I'm very worried that HUGE "biscotti" could happen with Bologna, seriously.. Bologna (apart from the match @ Atalanta) have to face teams that have nothing to say anymore to this championship, so..
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Maybe, it will be a bad news for Atalanta and maybe Lazio. BTW I quoted "biscotto" only to criticize a kind of journalism that everywhere there is something strange (or strange in their opinion) always start to talk about conspiracy.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Anyone watch Mugini storm out of Controcampo yesterday?? I really don't like all this calciopoli debating on tv - leave it to the legal system! Its just going to cause more confusion and anger...
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

leo said:
I'm one of who thinks that supporters violence is generated also by players violence, and if Radu started a riot, if Totti made that act, you can't expect fans will not take example from them.
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i got to disagree on this one leo. we can't blame totti for what happened after the match. those scumbags who stabbed some fans weren't at the stadium (coz u can't even get into the stadium with a glass bottle, nevermind a knife!). those bastards decided it was a good idea to carry a knife with themselves before the match even began.... BEFORE totti made the thumbs down gesture. u don't carry a knife if u don't plan on using it.... that's what they wanted to do in the first place.

i also strongly disagree on blaming the players for fans violence. We're grown people... i can't stab someone and then blame totti for this, for crying out loud!

besides i like those mocking gestures. totti didn't insult anybody... exactly as maresca didn't insult anybody when he made the "bull thing". this is folklore. it's fun and it adds some spice to the competition. both those gestures weren't rude or ill-mannered. it's a healthy way of making fun of the rivals.
years ago, after scoring a screamer in a palermo catania match, mascara run through the pitch moving his arms as if they were wings. it was another kind of mocking gestures (palermo's emblem is an eagle). well i can tell u the whole palermo curva was laughing... sure they were also screaming "u bastard son of a bit..." but they were amused and were laughing while yelling at him... they didn't cause any incident because of that... they just started thinking what kind of mocking chant they could sing, once palermo would have scored.

this is what rivalries are about. it's not just about beating your rival... it's also about mocking him and rubbing it in until next season... this is folklore. it's one of the things that makes this league unique and nice.... other clubs in other leagues don't have this habit of making fun of each others, coz in other leagues most of the players come from abroad, so they don't feel that special bond with their club and fans.
i like this... and i don't wanna give up to our folklore, to our habit of laughing at our own weaknesses, just coz some petty criminals (coz that's what those people are) wanna use a football match as a chance to tear apart a city.

we (italians) are not politically correct. we've never been. and we should be proud of this. why should we change our good habits? for those bastards? u think those bastards wouldn't have done what they did if totti wouldn't have made that gesture? believe me mate, that's not the case. they would have done it in any case... they would have done it even if lazio would have won the match..... normal, civilized people don't carry knives with themselves.... and those scumbags already planned what to do with those knives BEFORE seeing totti's gesture... they planned it when they thought it was a good idea to put a knife in their pockets.

after the raciti incident years ago, italian stadia became much safer places... today i can't even carry a bottle of water in palermo's stadium..... but the problem is still there. since those criminals can't cause incidents inside the stadia anymore, they moved outside the stadia.
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as for the "biscotti" issue, i think we have really nothing to worry about. serie a is not what it used to be... something it's changed in the last 3 seasons...
just look at parma... they have nothing to fight for, yet they play each and every match like a world cup final.... cagliari too has nothing to fight for anymore, and yet yesterday they litterally kicked our asses in the first half. and what about chievo? they beated samp less then 2 weeks ago.... and bologna draw with udinese this week.
there are no easy games in this league anymore. even those clubs who have no goals to achieve anymore keep playing at their best :))
milanista said:
Anyone watch Mugini storm out of Controcampo yesterday?? I
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u really watch that shit? i haven't watched a single episode of controcampo in years. :))
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Its good football entertainment. I'm not sure if you get this stuff in Palermo, but here we have stuff on Telelombardia that is so funny some times.... I like watching football debates because they are so Italian and in the UK I haven't seen anything as similar as this. Anyway, they usually have nice girls.

Last night Inter's Scarpini was on with this other guy who were fully arguing with Mugini, who ended up calling someone a coglione! They were talking about Inter's 'awarded' scudetti.


Edit - if anyone has Mediaset Premium, I highly recommend watching Milan games with Pellegatti commentary ... it was the funniest thing ever. Antonini "leali della liberta" and Borriello "Jack Sparrow" :LOL:
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

lo zio said:
they just started thinking what kind of mocking chant they could sing, once palermo would have scored.
Click to expand...
Lo scemo non vola più, Lo scemo non vola più,
Lo scemo lo scemo lo scemo lo scemo, lo scemo non vola più!!
(singing on the music of Popeye's theme.. Mocking the famous "lo scemo non canta più" chant)
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

exactly. this sort of humorism is tipically italian, and it's nice. this sort witty, folkloristic and creative mockeries have always been part of italian football.
i remember years ago during a napoli-verona match, the verona fans made fun of napoli with their chants for the entire match... and napoli fans displayed a huge banner "giulietta era 'na zoccola" (litterally "juliet was a bitch").... Juliet, one of the main characters of romeo and juliet, "was born" in verona. that character represents verona's sweet and romantic soul.
can u imagine a more witty way to make fun of your rivals? :))

i don't want us to change our politically uncorrect nature and our derisory attitude because of those scumbags... also because that wouldn't change anything. those people act like this coz they're petty criminals.... having a more composed attitude, a more "british" attitude (that doesn't wanna sound like an offense to british people, it's just to remark a temperamental difference between italians and english), won't turn those bastards into civilized people.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

If Inter had to take a coach to Barcelona, I'm sure Mourinho would've praised Barcelona for their 'sneakyness'. Or declared war on the volcano :LOL:
 
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