Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
From the other thread. I find this amusing!
From the other thread. I find this amusing!
Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season
- Thread starter Professor Nutmeg
- Start date
Hey there
Band Geek Mafia
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Ibra is probably still trying to understand how to properly play football.
Puns apart, even if I am an AC Milan fan I'm pretty happy Internazionale made it to Madrid, they surely deserved it more than Barça.
No one can say a DAMN THING. Not a damn thing. Where are the Barca fans out there? We were those who said Barca would rip us apart? Where is Ibra and his 4 goals
Ibra is probably still trying to understand how to properly play football.
Puns apart, even if I am an AC Milan fan I'm pretty happy Internazionale made it to Madrid, they surely deserved it more than Barça.
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Even I, as a Milan fan, am happy for Inter. We now need Fulham to do their job and Inter to beat Bayern, for the sake of the Serie A!
Even I, as a Milan fan, am happy for Inter. We now need Fulham to do their job and Inter to beat Bayern, for the sake of the Serie A!
Hey there
Band Geek Mafia
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
He's a badass motherfucker, I must admit that I kind of like his cocky attitude.
He's a badass motherfucker, I must admit that I kind of like his cocky attitude.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Keep it up mate, you know it's going to happen. Now, lets party, EVERYBODY...
Keep it up mate, you know it's going to happen. Now, lets party, EVERYBODY...
bebo
Looking for a Manager
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I can`t stop laughing at that mourinho like a 10 year old its great for football that celebration. valdes pwned!!!!!
I can`t stop laughing at that mourinho like a 10 year old its great for football that celebration. valdes pwned!!!!!
cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Mourinho does seem to know how to give teams sensational confidence, he got his tactics spot on vs Barca, and it's hard to think of another team who could have been down to ten men in so many matches and still won.
I really think Inter v Bayern will be a special final, it's two great teams of world class players who are in some ways the sleeping giants of European football. All I hope for is an epic game.
Mourinho does seem to know how to give teams sensational confidence, he got his tactics spot on vs Barca, and it's hard to think of another team who could have been down to ten men in so many matches and still won.
I really think Inter v Bayern will be a special final, it's two great teams of world class players who are in some ways the sleeping giants of European football. All I hope for is an epic game.
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Congratulations to Inter, Mourinho (when its not against your team) has this charm which wins you over to want his team to win.
I think the tactics were spot on and even with the shocking dismissal of Motta they defended brilliantly (reminded me of our performance at the Nou Camp).
Could be a battle for the treble in the final, Good Luck.
Congratulations to Inter, Mourinho (when its not against your team) has this charm which wins you over to want his team to win.
I think the tactics were spot on and even with the shocking dismissal of Motta they defended brilliantly (reminded me of our performance at the Nou Camp).
Could be a battle for the treble in the final, Good Luck.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Analysis from Zonal Marking:
My Italian isn't great (actually it's non-existent) but apparently Moggi has been banned from italian football, FOR LIFE http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/28-04-2010/corte-figc-moggi-radiato-603799590710.shtml
Analysis from Zonal Marking:
My Italian isn't great (actually it's non-existent) but apparently Moggi has been banned from italian football, FOR LIFE http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/28-04-2010/corte-figc-moggi-radiato-603799590710.shtml
Zeem
Wonder Boy
- 15 July 2006
- Team
- AC Milan
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Do they get points for winning the CL?
Anyway, Congrats to Inter, much deserved victory.
Do they get points for winning the CL?
Anyway, Congrats to Inter, much deserved victory.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
But I still hope it won't happen
Well, it's a game after all, so.. Congrats!! (I hope none of my Milanisti fellows sees this
)
I know, I know: well, out of the two finalists Inter is by far the best team, so you somehow deserve to win this CL..
But I still hope it won't happen
Well, it's a game after all, so.. Congrats!! (I hope none of my Milanisti fellows sees this
)
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
that's a joke right? it's impossible that somebody had the balls to write down that unbelievable load of bullshits and then called it an "analysis". UNBELIEVABLE. as i said yesterday, some people shouldn't be allowed to write about football.
anyway congrats to all the inter fans in here. your guys got the job done. sure it wasn't pretty... but it was never supposed to be a pretty game, as the 3-1 win in the first leg obviously had an impact on the plot of this second leg. enjoy the final, u earned it
tactics is about finding a good balance, it's about harmonizing the possession phases with the non-possession phases. it's about coordinating the players movement so they are always in the right position to recover the ball and about giving the basic guidelines to the players about the "construction" of the plays.
sometimes the tactical aspect can get more sophisticated, when a coach tries to mix up things (switching the markings, sliding the coverage assignementes, modifying the natural routes of the wings or the inside forwards, mixing up zone coverage with man marking assignements...).
there was nothing of that yesterday. no balance, no coordination between attacking and defending.... it was all about 11 guys defending the 1st leg result. and it's ok, as that was the right thing to do (no arguments here)..... but we really can't talk about tactics, as no tactical aspect was involved in yesterday's match....
the truth is, if an italian coach would have done that, the whole world would be criticizing him for such a defensive attitude. but when mourinho does it, then it's a tactical masterpiece. i mean, that imbecile who wrote that "analisys" rfu posted had the balls to compare yesterday's match to sacchi's football, for crying out loud!!!
to our inter fans here; i'm not trying to bring u down or underestimate such a great result. i'not even trying to argue with the gameplan mourinho picked (as that was the right gameplan). and, as i already wrote, i think mourinho has done a great job this season and i also think he had a major role in inter's transformation (as now we can say this is a completely different team from last year).
my only point is; yesterday's game had nothing to do with tactics.
and let me add one thing: mourinho is a cocky bastard, needlessly confrontational, with no class whatsoever and a pretty poor understading of the tactical aspect of the game. but no one can deny he's done a great job, and no one can deny he has a natural charisma. i mean, i can't think of a single valid reason to like this man..... i can't stand his attitude, but, for some reasons that go beyond my understanding, i actually like him (just like hey there said)
edit:
oh rfu, yes Moggi has been officially banned for life from italian football. but it's not like this decision was taken yesterday. the federcalcio just asked for a proper interpretation of the 2006 sentence and the court made its own sentence more clear, turning an unofficial life-time ban into an official life-time ban. another good news for serie a (although it was already pretty clear moggi and and his associates would have never been offered an occupation in football again from any italian team).
that's a joke right? it's impossible that somebody had the balls to write down that unbelievable load of bullshits and then called it an "analysis". UNBELIEVABLE. as i said yesterday, some people shouldn't be allowed to write about football.anyway congrats to all the inter fans in here. your guys got the job done. sure it wasn't pretty... but it was never supposed to be a pretty game, as the 3-1 win in the first leg obviously had an impact on the plot of this second leg. enjoy the final, u earned it
i agree with u edmundo, except for the bold part. that was not a tactical masterpiece, and mourinho didn't pick the best tactic. he didn't pick a tactic at all.edmundo said:
tactics is about finding a good balance, it's about harmonizing the possession phases with the non-possession phases. it's about coordinating the players movement so they are always in the right position to recover the ball and about giving the basic guidelines to the players about the "construction" of the plays.
sometimes the tactical aspect can get more sophisticated, when a coach tries to mix up things (switching the markings, sliding the coverage assignementes, modifying the natural routes of the wings or the inside forwards, mixing up zone coverage with man marking assignements...).
there was nothing of that yesterday. no balance, no coordination between attacking and defending.... it was all about 11 guys defending the 1st leg result. and it's ok, as that was the right thing to do (no arguments here)..... but we really can't talk about tactics, as no tactical aspect was involved in yesterday's match....
the truth is, if an italian coach would have done that, the whole world would be criticizing him for such a defensive attitude. but when mourinho does it, then it's a tactical masterpiece. i mean, that imbecile who wrote that "analisys" rfu posted had the balls to compare yesterday's match to sacchi's football, for crying out loud!!!
to our inter fans here; i'm not trying to bring u down or underestimate such a great result. i'not even trying to argue with the gameplan mourinho picked (as that was the right gameplan). and, as i already wrote, i think mourinho has done a great job this season and i also think he had a major role in inter's transformation (as now we can say this is a completely different team from last year).
my only point is; yesterday's game had nothing to do with tactics.
and let me add one thing: mourinho is a cocky bastard, needlessly confrontational, with no class whatsoever and a pretty poor understading of the tactical aspect of the game. but no one can deny he's done a great job, and no one can deny he has a natural charisma. i mean, i can't think of a single valid reason to like this man..... i can't stand his attitude, but, for some reasons that go beyond my understanding, i actually like him (just like hey there said)
edit:
oh rfu, yes Moggi has been officially banned for life from italian football. but it's not like this decision was taken yesterday. the federcalcio just asked for a proper interpretation of the 2006 sentence and the court made its own sentence more clear, turning an unofficial life-time ban into an official life-time ban. another good news for serie a (although it was already pretty clear moggi and and his associates would have never been offered an occupation in football again from any italian team).
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cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I think you could say that changing the formation, and swapping Pandev out for Chivu was a good move from a tactical point of view. I know that, in theory, this was a decision based on an injury (to Pandev) rather than tactics.
But he changed the system as well as the player. For instance he could have started with a more attacking player as Pandev's replacement, the likes of Mariga, Balotelli or even Arnautovic would have been a more similar replacement than Chivu.
With Chivu for Pandev he seemed to change from the three attackers (Pandev, Etoo and Milito) to just two and he supplimented his wide midfield with the addition of Chivu. Also when down to 10 men it must have been very tempting to make a defensive change (e.g. Muntari for Etoo or Milito) to preserve the system. However, he didn't make any subs (until around 65 mins) and simply repositioned his players with Etoo being withdrawn and playing a bit further back. This was a good tactical decision. Etoo and Milito were able to exchange roles, with playing as a wider player and as a more direct striker. Also taking a player off on 20 mins with only 10 players would have been bad from a stamina point of view. For instance had Muntari come on at 27 mins, by around 70 he would have been tired (chasing a game with one less team mate), instead Mourinho was able to save his substitutions, take Schneidjer off on 60 mins (after he had run out of stamina), and then Cordoba to add a defensive edge on 80 mins, and finally Mariga to use up time and also to replace Etoo who had also run out of stamina.
I think you could say that changing the formation, and swapping Pandev out for Chivu was a good move from a tactical point of view. I know that, in theory, this was a decision based on an injury (to Pandev) rather than tactics.
But he changed the system as well as the player. For instance he could have started with a more attacking player as Pandev's replacement, the likes of Mariga, Balotelli or even Arnautovic would have been a more similar replacement than Chivu.
With Chivu for Pandev he seemed to change from the three attackers (Pandev, Etoo and Milito) to just two and he supplimented his wide midfield with the addition of Chivu. Also when down to 10 men it must have been very tempting to make a defensive change (e.g. Muntari for Etoo or Milito) to preserve the system. However, he didn't make any subs (until around 65 mins) and simply repositioned his players with Etoo being withdrawn and playing a bit further back. This was a good tactical decision. Etoo and Milito were able to exchange roles, with playing as a wider player and as a more direct striker. Also taking a player off on 20 mins with only 10 players would have been bad from a stamina point of view. For instance had Muntari come on at 27 mins, by around 70 he would have been tired (chasing a game with one less team mate), instead Mourinho was able to save his substitutions, take Schneidjer off on 60 mins (after he had run out of stamina), and then Cordoba to add a defensive edge on 80 mins, and finally Mariga to use up time and also to replace Etoo who had also run out of stamina.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
A momentous achievement.
Well it's not much of "analysis", more of an observation, and quite a good one. I think Sacchi was brought up for discussion, not comparison. I agree Mou wasn't forced into making many tactical changes, even after going down to 10 men. But we can at least agree that Inter's defensive organization last night (or day for me) was simply astounding. The reason why no one gives a toss about Xavi was made evident: limit the movement of the players around him and Xavi becomes ineffectual. He accumulated 100 plus passes and one of those led to a goal. Messi wasn't even man-marked, yet he could even manage to run at the defence at full pace, simply because there was no space for him to run into. Not sure what Ibra was upto.
That's because no Italian manager has achieved the impossible vs the greatest team on the planet, over a two-legged bout, and with Inter
A momentous achievement.
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lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
seriously mate, that man has absolutely no idea what he's talking about... there isn't a single line i couldn't bitch about.
he tried to make a connection between ball possession and scoring chances (wich is ridiculous).
he claimed mourinho showed some tactical brilliance by going for a zone coverage setup.... (like this wasn't the standard approach to defending, applied by the 99,9% of the coaches all over the world since the early '90s).
seriously this is ridiculous.
yesterday's game was not a showcase of brilliant defending. the first leg was. defending is a challenge when u have to attack aswell. in that case u must find a compromise, the right balance between pressing and covering at midfield, the right harmony between the players tendencies and movements. then defending (well) becomes a real challenge. and that's when tactics comes into play.
but when u give up to attack, then defending is no challenge at all. if u set your side midfielders to pressing duties ONLY, your central midfielders to coverage duties ONLY and your entire defensive line (sidebacks included) on coverage (ONLY), then u will always have an advantage over the opponent, as u will always have a double coverage... pretty much everwhere (on the pitch) and on any possible ball carrier.
of course this way it becomes virtually impossible to create some football, to build a play (but then again inter didn't need that yesterday).
tactics is about harmonizing defending with attacking. that's the real challenge. what happened yesterday has absolutely nothing to do with tactics.
once again, i'not trying to bring mourinho down or to say he's done something wrong. that was exactly what u had to do yesterday. i'm just saying that was not a matter of tactics. that was not good defending strategy. it was just defending. great defending i would add... but from an individual point of view (considering the players performances).. not considering the whole defensive line performance. coz the defensive line had a huge help by the entire midfield yesterday. and that gave them an advantage, wich made the defensive line work much easier.
u wanna see a great display of tactics applied to defense? then watch the 2 legs against chelsea, or the first leg against barca. but sure not this one
@edmundo: the chivu\pandev move was determined only by pandev's supposed injury. mourinho did that coz he was forced to do it. and chivu was the only real option. mariga and arnautovic have not the experience to handle a semifinal at the nou camp. and balotelli could have never played yesterday. he doesn't deserve to play, after what he's done.... the players would have been very disappointed in mourinho if he would have lined up balotelli in the starting 11. besides, given balotelli's poor work rate, that would have been a disgraceful decision anyway.
and as for the fact that he didn't put in another defender after the red card to motta.... it's no big deal... he was already defending with 9 players... from 9 to 8 it doesn't change that much in terms of coverage. that obviously compromised any chance to counter attack, but that's a different topic.
mourinho didn't have any critical decision to make yesterday. all his moves were "forced". and since he's not a complete jackass, he did all those (obvious) moves he was supposed to do.
the players won this matchup, not the coaches. samuel, cambiasso, zanetti, they were simply IMMENSE. mourinho didn't have much to do yesterday. he didn't make any mistake as he did everything he was supposed to do. but we certainly can't say the coach won the matchup with some particular move.
and once again. i'm not saying this to underestimate mourinho's work. his moves have granted inter many important wins... it's just that yesterday was not the case, as he didn't have any tough decision to make, that's it.
really? that a good observation? so he mentioned a coach who never defended with more than 4 men... and then talks about a team wich defended with 9 players? where's the connection? i don't see it. he wrote that game was a "version" of sacchi's football (his words). i can tell u, u have no idea what sort of verbal abuses sacchi would yell at that idiot for that observation. sacchi labelled his successor (capello) as "a too defensive-minded coach", just coz he added 1 single defensive midfielder to milan's defensive setup.rfu said:
seriously mate, that man has absolutely no idea what he's talking about... there isn't a single line i couldn't bitch about.
he tried to make a connection between ball possession and scoring chances (wich is ridiculous).
he claimed mourinho showed some tactical brilliance by going for a zone coverage setup.... (like this wasn't the standard approach to defending, applied by the 99,9% of the coaches all over the world since the early '90s).
seriously this is ridiculous.
absolutely no. there was no organization whatsoever. defensive organization implies "coachcraft", it implies tactics. yesterday's game had absolutely nothing to do with tactics.rfu said:
yesterday's game was not a showcase of brilliant defending. the first leg was. defending is a challenge when u have to attack aswell. in that case u must find a compromise, the right balance between pressing and covering at midfield, the right harmony between the players tendencies and movements. then defending (well) becomes a real challenge. and that's when tactics comes into play.
but when u give up to attack, then defending is no challenge at all. if u set your side midfielders to pressing duties ONLY, your central midfielders to coverage duties ONLY and your entire defensive line (sidebacks included) on coverage (ONLY), then u will always have an advantage over the opponent, as u will always have a double coverage... pretty much everwhere (on the pitch) and on any possible ball carrier.
of course this way it becomes virtually impossible to create some football, to build a play (but then again inter didn't need that yesterday).
tactics is about harmonizing defending with attacking. that's the real challenge. what happened yesterday has absolutely nothing to do with tactics.
once again, i'not trying to bring mourinho down or to say he's done something wrong. that was exactly what u had to do yesterday. i'm just saying that was not a matter of tactics. that was not good defending strategy. it was just defending. great defending i would add... but from an individual point of view (considering the players performances).. not considering the whole defensive line performance. coz the defensive line had a huge help by the entire midfield yesterday. and that gave them an advantage, wich made the defensive line work much easier.
u wanna see a great display of tactics applied to defense? then watch the 2 legs against chelsea, or the first leg against barca. but sure not this one
@edmundo: the chivu\pandev move was determined only by pandev's supposed injury. mourinho did that coz he was forced to do it. and chivu was the only real option. mariga and arnautovic have not the experience to handle a semifinal at the nou camp. and balotelli could have never played yesterday. he doesn't deserve to play, after what he's done.... the players would have been very disappointed in mourinho if he would have lined up balotelli in the starting 11. besides, given balotelli's poor work rate, that would have been a disgraceful decision anyway.
and as for the fact that he didn't put in another defender after the red card to motta.... it's no big deal... he was already defending with 9 players... from 9 to 8 it doesn't change that much in terms of coverage. that obviously compromised any chance to counter attack, but that's a different topic.
mourinho didn't have any critical decision to make yesterday. all his moves were "forced". and since he's not a complete jackass, he did all those (obvious) moves he was supposed to do.
the players won this matchup, not the coaches. samuel, cambiasso, zanetti, they were simply IMMENSE. mourinho didn't have much to do yesterday. he didn't make any mistake as he did everything he was supposed to do. but we certainly can't say the coach won the matchup with some particular move.
and once again. i'm not saying this to underestimate mourinho's work. his moves have granted inter many important wins... it's just that yesterday was not the case, as he didn't have any tough decision to make, that's it.
GoonerLover66
Pascal Cygan Fan #.06
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I wouldn't say that there wasn't a tactic going on per se. Strictly speaking, a tactic is an expedient for achieving a goal. Inter's goal for this match was to defend at all costs and to try and prevent Barcelona from scoring, and their method for doing so involved playing a back-line of 5, occasionally 6, players with a line of 3 in-front of them. It's not ground-breaking, in fact it's inherently flawed and comparable to an Under 11's football match. But the principle fact is that this method worked and achieved a victory accrued on aggregate. Therefore it is a tactic.
It wasn't great, and at times it seemed scrappy. A simple case of getting the ball away at all costs, retain this blocking shape and bear the brunt of the attacks without risking a hole emerging. Hence why Victor Valdes enjoyed the freedom of the middle of the pitch without being troubled. What this meant was that Barcelona - who generally love to attack from deep, utilise the flanks and burst past a defender - were forced to play in front of these lines. It worked enough to frustrate Messi, who simply resorted to trying passes - which nearly worked were it not from Bojan's crappy connection with the aerial ball. And Inter were very fortunate that Yaya Toure played rather poorly and uncharacteristically; when Yaya has space for a shot in midfield, you generally know that he's going to hit that shot with malice towards the upper regions of the goal, and so Inter were lucky that Yaya's aim was abismal.
But again, it worked. It wasn't innovative. Heck, Tottenham did the exact same against Arsenal just a few weeks ago and shut out Arsenal mostly - bar a few incidents which provoked some stunning saves from Gomes. But against a team like Barcelona such a method works.
And you have to give credit to the consistent structure of the Inter back-line. Not many teams dip back while retaining that shape - at least from the perspective of a fan like me who mostly watches English, Spanish and French football - but, on the other hand, I suppose organisation isn't an issue if you're instructed to defend just in front of the goal.
What did amuse me was the "If in doubt, pass it to Maicon" method that seemed to be going on, and how he tried his uttermost to burst past the two or three Barcelona that were standing right in front of him.
What infuriated me was the English commentators persistence in saying that Pep Guardiola should bring on Henry. Seemingly unaware that the whole purpose of Henry's success over his career was that he'd attack from deep and aim for the space behind the defender, thus resulting in the defender back-pedalling because they fear his pace and terrific ball control. If Inter are playing with almost zero space between the defence and the goal then bringing Henry on would be totally futile. Bringing him on to "shake things up a bit" is stupid and a meaningless phrase.
I wouldn't say that there wasn't a tactic going on per se. Strictly speaking, a tactic is an expedient for achieving a goal. Inter's goal for this match was to defend at all costs and to try and prevent Barcelona from scoring, and their method for doing so involved playing a back-line of 5, occasionally 6, players with a line of 3 in-front of them. It's not ground-breaking, in fact it's inherently flawed and comparable to an Under 11's football match. But the principle fact is that this method worked and achieved a victory accrued on aggregate. Therefore it is a tactic.
It wasn't great, and at times it seemed scrappy. A simple case of getting the ball away at all costs, retain this blocking shape and bear the brunt of the attacks without risking a hole emerging. Hence why Victor Valdes enjoyed the freedom of the middle of the pitch without being troubled. What this meant was that Barcelona - who generally love to attack from deep, utilise the flanks and burst past a defender - were forced to play in front of these lines. It worked enough to frustrate Messi, who simply resorted to trying passes - which nearly worked were it not from Bojan's crappy connection with the aerial ball. And Inter were very fortunate that Yaya Toure played rather poorly and uncharacteristically; when Yaya has space for a shot in midfield, you generally know that he's going to hit that shot with malice towards the upper regions of the goal, and so Inter were lucky that Yaya's aim was abismal.
But again, it worked. It wasn't innovative. Heck, Tottenham did the exact same against Arsenal just a few weeks ago and shut out Arsenal mostly - bar a few incidents which provoked some stunning saves from Gomes. But against a team like Barcelona such a method works.
And you have to give credit to the consistent structure of the Inter back-line. Not many teams dip back while retaining that shape - at least from the perspective of a fan like me who mostly watches English, Spanish and French football - but, on the other hand, I suppose organisation isn't an issue if you're instructed to defend just in front of the goal.
What did amuse me was the "If in doubt, pass it to Maicon" method that seemed to be going on, and how he tried his uttermost to burst past the two or three Barcelona that were standing right in front of him.
What infuriated me was the English commentators persistence in saying that Pep Guardiola should bring on Henry. Seemingly unaware that the whole purpose of Henry's success over his career was that he'd attack from deep and aim for the space behind the defender, thus resulting in the defender back-pedalling because they fear his pace and terrific ball control. If Inter are playing with almost zero space between the defence and the goal then bringing Henry on would be totally futile. Bringing him on to "shake things up a bit" is stupid and a meaningless phrase.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
i'd rather say tactic is the "coach craft" wich comes into play when a team has to satisty 2 needs: score and prevent the opponent from scoring. in this situation (wich is the normal situation) each and every directive from the coach is aimed to find the right balance between the moves required to achieve theese 2 opposite goals.
but when u don't have to achieve one of those 2 goals (scoring, in yesterday's case), then u just line up 2 defensive lines and set all the defenders and the midfielders on coverage, without even asking them to start an action whenever they get the ball.
there's no craft in that.
u can't say it ceases to be a matter of organization. it becomes a matter of focus and attention by the players. and they showed an unvelievable composure and focus yesterday. all of em.
i also agree with u about yaya. and it's not just that; we can say (without diminishing inter's merits) inter was pretty lucky on many occasions yesterday. but then again, luck is always a big factor in cup matches.
what i found really funny was to think that ibra said he moved to barca coz he felt he would have never had a chance to play a champions league final playing for inter... LOL! karma is a bitch!
yeah, we might even put it in theese terms. but then, by this logic, everything becomes tactic. even just putting 11 players on the pitch.Goonerlover said:
i'd rather say tactic is the "coach craft" wich comes into play when a team has to satisty 2 needs: score and prevent the opponent from scoring. in this situation (wich is the normal situation) each and every directive from the coach is aimed to find the right balance between the moves required to achieve theese 2 opposite goals.
but when u don't have to achieve one of those 2 goals (scoring, in yesterday's case), then u just line up 2 defensive lines and set all the defenders and the midfielders on coverage, without even asking them to start an action whenever they get the ball.
there's no craft in that.
exactlygoonerlover said:
u can't say it ceases to be a matter of organization. it becomes a matter of focus and attention by the players. and they showed an unvelievable composure and focus yesterday. all of em.i also agree with u about yaya. and it's not just that; we can say (without diminishing inter's merits) inter was pretty lucky on many occasions yesterday. but then again, luck is always a big factor in cup matches.
yep. i certainly agree on that.goonerlover said:
what i found really funny was to think that ibra said he moved to barca coz he felt he would have never had a chance to play a champions league final playing for inter... LOL! karma is a bitch!
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GoonerLover66
Pascal Cygan Fan #.06
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Hmmm...that's an interesting definition of tactic. But surely every formation and every line up is a tactic, but it is only the truly successful ones that satisfies both of those needs? Although it's not your speciality, I'd like to know what your opinion is of the ideaology that Tony Pulis adopts at Stoke - a high octane, tight marking, hard pressing, aerially secure, energetic football who rely mostly on throw-ins to provide assists (but are also quite adept at scoring from set-pieces. More often than not they ignore the need to score in order to make sure they defend securely and do not allow a counter-attacking break. Hence why they've had the most 0-0 draws of any Premier League side and joint top of overall draws.
I'm just glad that I was able to use Inter's ascent to the final to piss of a mate, a big Barcelona fan. I asked him how he felt after last night's event, he said that he could cry, so I said "That's okay, I've got something you can wipe your tears on" and pulled out an Inter shirt. I was somewhat proud of that.
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As for the pieces I've worked on for The Guardian, the one I feel most proud of was for their 2008-09 Premier League Season supplement. I worked on the Club Previews with another journalist, helped slap in some of the humour and came up with, and wrote, the idea of comparing the clubs to dogs (Don't ask, my mind comes up with some insane concepts and images. Their surreal nature would surely intrigue some psychiatrists).
Here's a link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2008/aug/11/theseason0809. The problem is that you can't submit anything substantial or of a meaty subject nature to a newspaper, it's the not the right kind of literary form. For that, I'd have to submit something to FourFourTwo.
Hmmm...that's an interesting definition of tactic. But surely every formation and every line up is a tactic, but it is only the truly successful ones that satisfies both of those needs? Although it's not your speciality, I'd like to know what your opinion is of the ideaology that Tony Pulis adopts at Stoke - a high octane, tight marking, hard pressing, aerially secure, energetic football who rely mostly on throw-ins to provide assists (but are also quite adept at scoring from set-pieces. More often than not they ignore the need to score in order to make sure they defend securely and do not allow a counter-attacking break. Hence why they've had the most 0-0 draws of any Premier League side and joint top of overall draws.
I'm just glad that I was able to use Inter's ascent to the final to piss of a mate, a big Barcelona fan. I asked him how he felt after last night's event, he said that he could cry, so I said "That's okay, I've got something you can wipe your tears on" and pulled out an Inter shirt. I was somewhat proud of that.
-----
As for the pieces I've worked on for The Guardian, the one I feel most proud of was for their 2008-09 Premier League Season supplement. I worked on the Club Previews with another journalist, helped slap in some of the humour and came up with, and wrote, the idea of comparing the clubs to dogs (Don't ask, my mind comes up with some insane concepts and images. Their surreal nature would surely intrigue some psychiatrists).
Here's a link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2008/aug/11/theseason0809. The problem is that you can't submit anything substantial or of a meaty subject nature to a newspaper, it's the not the right kind of literary form. For that, I'd have to submit something to FourFourTwo.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Team
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
yes, i guess we could define any deployment of players on the pitch (no matter how basic is the tactical idea behind it) as "tactic". and then move forward in some sort of a sophistication ladder.
but even then, any tactic (basic though it may be) must still be instrumental to win a game (wich means both aspect, the defensive one and the offensive one, must come into play).
stoke city definitely has a tactic imprint. and pulis probably went for the plan that suits best his squad. he clearely favours the defensive aspect, but afterall this becomes quite "natural" when u have many players with a very good work rate (like faye, wilkinson, delap, etherington, lawrence, just to mention a few). they have a big, heavy, tall and strong backline, wich obviously means the line will tend to stay pretty deep (and, as a consequence of that, the midfield won't be able to "stretch the pitch" very much and will be forced to a very hard work (in terms of pressing). that would obviously frustrate any team's offensive wills. they also have some pretty good long range passers (like delap, etherington, lawrence and even shawcross isn't bad in that department) and that might be another reason of their basic-sitting deep kinda football. and clearely when u have delap on your team, throw ins become an important asset aswell.
i think all theese factors play a role in their lazy offensive gameplan (i mean "lazy" only under the offensive perspective.... stoke as a team is everything but lazy of course.... actually they're probably the most "hardworking" and "die hard" team in the league).
but still, u can see an offensive pattern, basic though it may be (delap's throw ins, whelan's free kicks, etherington's runs on the left flank). i know it's not much, but at least there's a (minimal) focus on scoring opportunities.
what we saw wednesday instead was a team confortable with the 3-1 advantage, a team that had absolutely no offensive pattern whatsoever, no offensive will at all. it was all just about protecting the box.
if pandev would have been available, we would have probably seen something more from inter in terms of passing and possession. they would have at least tried to hit barca on the counter. but when mourinho was forced to put chivu instead of pandev, it was clear the team gave up to any possible offensive inspiration.
even the so called "calcio all'italiana" ("football a la italian"... that's an expression used to describe that horrible, boring, conservative kinda football italian teams used to play in the '60s, 70's and '80s, and which is unappropriately identified with the catenaccio) still had (just like stoke) a glimpse of offensive pattern in it: italian teams used to defend deep to attract the opponent teams in their own midfield and then hit them on the counter with a long pass.
well wednesday's inter didn't even get to this (very basic) level of tactical sophistication. it was all about pressing (to frustrate barca's passing game) and covering, and no offensive pattern whatsoever.
so, yeah, on second thought u're right when u say that ANY pattern and gameplan (as simple and basic it might be) can be defined "tactic". but any gamplan (defensive and conservative though it might be) will always at least consider the opportunity to deploy an offensive scheme (even if it's nothing more than a long pass, a free kick or a throw in).... inter didn't even do that against barca.... so it's hard to talk about tactics.
but as i said, this doesn't want to be a criticize to mourinho. he did the right thing. and obviusly if the 1st leg would have ended differently (a 1-1, a 2-2 or even a 3-2 win for the nerazzurri) we would have seen a completely different inter at the nou camp.
my only point is: let's not talk about a great showcase of defensive strategy or about a tactical masterpiece.
no tactical masterpiece could be completely focused on one aspect of the game alone (defending or attacking).
and we can't certainly talk about a great showcase of defensive strategy when a team defends with more than 7 players.
sacchi's football was a real marvel of tactics applied to defending, even though his football was much more focused on attacking.... actually we might say it was a marvel precisely because sacchi's football was mostly an offensive football. he used to defend with 4, 5 players (tops), hence his milan never had a clear numeric superiority in defense (over the opponent's attacking players). but he used to cope with the lack of defending personnel with his defensive patterns, his diagonals. there was some "coachcraft" at work.
defending with 8 men instead means u'll always have a numeric superiority. that'll give u a chance to have a double coverage on each zone of your own midfield. it ceases to be a matter of "coach craft", a matter of tactics. it becomes just a matter of numeric superiority.
----------------------------------------------------------
i got a put a disclaimer though. my knowledge of stoke city is quite limited as i've watched just about 3 or 4 potters match this season (therefore everything i wrote about them should be taken with a pinch of salt ).
yeah, i can see where you're going and the fact that u mentioned stoke city makes me get your point even better.Goonerlover said:
yes, i guess we could define any deployment of players on the pitch (no matter how basic is the tactical idea behind it) as "tactic". and then move forward in some sort of a sophistication ladder.
but even then, any tactic (basic though it may be) must still be instrumental to win a game (wich means both aspect, the defensive one and the offensive one, must come into play).
stoke city definitely has a tactic imprint. and pulis probably went for the plan that suits best his squad. he clearely favours the defensive aspect, but afterall this becomes quite "natural" when u have many players with a very good work rate (like faye, wilkinson, delap, etherington, lawrence, just to mention a few). they have a big, heavy, tall and strong backline, wich obviously means the line will tend to stay pretty deep (and, as a consequence of that, the midfield won't be able to "stretch the pitch" very much and will be forced to a very hard work (in terms of pressing). that would obviously frustrate any team's offensive wills. they also have some pretty good long range passers (like delap, etherington, lawrence and even shawcross isn't bad in that department) and that might be another reason of their basic-sitting deep kinda football. and clearely when u have delap on your team, throw ins become an important asset aswell.
i think all theese factors play a role in their lazy offensive gameplan (i mean "lazy" only under the offensive perspective.... stoke as a team is everything but lazy of course.... actually they're probably the most "hardworking" and "die hard" team in the league).
but still, u can see an offensive pattern, basic though it may be (delap's throw ins, whelan's free kicks, etherington's runs on the left flank). i know it's not much, but at least there's a (minimal) focus on scoring opportunities.
what we saw wednesday instead was a team confortable with the 3-1 advantage, a team that had absolutely no offensive pattern whatsoever, no offensive will at all. it was all just about protecting the box.
if pandev would have been available, we would have probably seen something more from inter in terms of passing and possession. they would have at least tried to hit barca on the counter. but when mourinho was forced to put chivu instead of pandev, it was clear the team gave up to any possible offensive inspiration.
even the so called "calcio all'italiana" ("football a la italian"... that's an expression used to describe that horrible, boring, conservative kinda football italian teams used to play in the '60s, 70's and '80s, and which is unappropriately identified with the catenaccio) still had (just like stoke) a glimpse of offensive pattern in it: italian teams used to defend deep to attract the opponent teams in their own midfield and then hit them on the counter with a long pass.
well wednesday's inter didn't even get to this (very basic) level of tactical sophistication. it was all about pressing (to frustrate barca's passing game) and covering, and no offensive pattern whatsoever.
so, yeah, on second thought u're right when u say that ANY pattern and gameplan (as simple and basic it might be) can be defined "tactic". but any gamplan (defensive and conservative though it might be) will always at least consider the opportunity to deploy an offensive scheme (even if it's nothing more than a long pass, a free kick or a throw in).... inter didn't even do that against barca.... so it's hard to talk about tactics.
but as i said, this doesn't want to be a criticize to mourinho. he did the right thing. and obviusly if the 1st leg would have ended differently (a 1-1, a 2-2 or even a 3-2 win for the nerazzurri) we would have seen a completely different inter at the nou camp.
my only point is: let's not talk about a great showcase of defensive strategy or about a tactical masterpiece.
no tactical masterpiece could be completely focused on one aspect of the game alone (defending or attacking).
and we can't certainly talk about a great showcase of defensive strategy when a team defends with more than 7 players.
sacchi's football was a real marvel of tactics applied to defending, even though his football was much more focused on attacking.... actually we might say it was a marvel precisely because sacchi's football was mostly an offensive football. he used to defend with 4, 5 players (tops), hence his milan never had a clear numeric superiority in defense (over the opponent's attacking players). but he used to cope with the lack of defending personnel with his defensive patterns, his diagonals. there was some "coachcraft" at work.
defending with 8 men instead means u'll always have a numeric superiority. that'll give u a chance to have a double coverage on each zone of your own midfield. it ceases to be a matter of "coach craft", a matter of tactics. it becomes just a matter of numeric superiority.
Goonerlover said:
----------------------------------------------------------
i got a put a disclaimer though. my knowledge of stoke city is quite limited as i've watched just about 3 or 4 potters match this season (therefore everything i wrote about them should be taken with a pinch of salt
).
Aboutreika18
Too Black, Too Strong
- 5 September 2006
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
How was Hodgson as a manager when he had those two spells at Inter?
Was he a success or a failure?
How was Hodgson as a manager when he had those two spells at Inter?
Was he a success or a failure?
vasilios
Greek God of Football
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Agreed.
I also find it amusing that Real Madrid essentially forced both Robben and Sneijder out and now they're both playing in the CL final at El Bernabeu.
what i found really funny was to think that ibra said he moved to barca coz he felt he would have never had a chance to play a champions league final playing for inter... LOL! karma is a bitch!
Agreed.
I also find it amusing that Real Madrid essentially forced both Robben and Sneijder out and now they're both playing in the CL final at El Bernabeu.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I was an Inter fan after his first stint so I can't really say, although I hear we were in a rebuilding phase at that point. From a fulham website:
Season he left Inter (with newly signed Ronaldo) went on to win the Uefa cup. His second stint was brief, I can hardly remember. It was only for a few months, to steady the ship before the subsequent arrival of Lippi.
More on Balotelli....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXpAMa-Zjio
He's lucky this after the Barca game and we progressed, Inter fans were in a generous mood. Not me though.
I was an Inter fan after his first stint so I can't really say, although I hear we were in a rebuilding phase at that point. From a fulham website:
Season he left Inter (with newly signed Ronaldo) went on to win the Uefa cup. His second stint was brief, I can hardly remember. It was only for a few months, to steady the ship before the subsequent arrival of Lippi.
Don't forget Eto'o too was a former Real Madrid player. One of life's many ironies.
More on Balotelli....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXpAMa-Zjio
He's lucky this after the Barca game and we progressed, Inter fans were in a generous mood. Not me though.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I really hate these "let's speak about me" things (in general). He did the shirt thing after first Barça match, now even if he didn't play the second match he find a way to let people talk about him. I stopped talk about him 2 weeks ago, I won't take part on Balotelli&Raiola game.
what an actor.....really Raiola style.
I really hate these "let's speak about me" things (in general). He did the shirt thing after first Barça match, now even if he didn't play the second match he find a way to let people talk about him. I stopped talk about him 2 weeks ago, I won't take part on Balotelli&Raiola game.
cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
It was a pretty poor show.
It was a pretty poor show.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Luckily enough, Lippi actually likes Di Natale
And with Cannavaro returning to a brilliant form, the Italy NT doesn't seem so bad anymore 
Oh, and just what did you expect from a safe team which just nearly avoided relegation, to be hyped for helping their hated enemies?
Luckily enough, Lippi actually likes Di Natale
And with Cannavaro returning to a brilliant form, the Italy NT doesn't seem so bad anymore Oh, and just what did you expect from a safe team which just nearly avoided relegation, to be hyped for helping their hated enemies?