Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I bet Totti goes to South Africa! Which disappoints me.
I bet Totti goes to South Africa! Which disappoints me.
Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season
- Thread starter Professor Nutmeg
- Start date
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
oh btw, i forgot to write about something that happened to me a few hours ago.
i had an hearing to attend to this morning and i was quite concerned, coz after yesterday's match (in hindsight i admit it wasn't really clever to sing for about 90 minutes the day before a hearing) my voice had grown weak. so i step into the courtroom and it turns out the prosecutor had no voice left too (wich was quite a relief).
after a few minutes the judge shows up, and as soon as he opened his mouth, both me and the prosecutor realised the judge was at the match too yesterday, as he had no voice left aswell. it was such a weird and hilarious situation, even the journalists burst into laughters.
the judge had to postpone the hearing coz none of us could speak. LOL!
i don't think he will, ste
oh btw, i forgot to write about something that happened to me a few hours ago.
i had an hearing to attend to this morning and i was quite concerned, coz after yesterday's match (in hindsight i admit it wasn't really clever to sing for about 90 minutes the day before a hearing) my voice had grown weak. so i step into the courtroom and it turns out the prosecutor had no voice left too (wich was quite a relief).
after a few minutes the judge shows up, and as soon as he opened his mouth, both me and the prosecutor realised the judge was at the match too yesterday, as he had no voice left aswell. it was such a weird and hilarious situation, even the journalists burst into laughters.
the judge had to postpone the hearing coz none of us could speak. LOL!
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Ben, why is it you always have the coolest experiences every week??
Ben, why is it you always have the coolest experiences every week??
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
cool isn't exactly the word i'd use. i made a complete idiot of myself. it was freaking embarassing. i'm just glad i wasn't the only one who couldn't speak
and i'm even more glad my client wasn't at the hearing this morning, as it would have been even more embarassing to explain him why the hearing was postponed. no need to say i told the secretary to call him and tell him the hearing was postponed coz the judge and the prosecutor (but not me) had no voice left. now i just gotta dodge his phone calls for the rest of the day
cool isn't exactly the word i'd use. i made a complete idiot of myself. it was freaking embarassing. i'm just glad i wasn't the only one who couldn't speak
and i'm even more glad my client wasn't at the hearing this morning, as it would have been even more embarassing to explain him why the hearing was postponed. no need to say i told the secretary to call him and tell him the hearing was postponed coz the judge and the prosecutor (but not me) had no voice left. now i just gotta dodge his phone calls for the rest of the day
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
i don't like it at all. just too many weird call-ups. quagliarella has been in a horrible form this season, calling gattuso ahead of nocerino makes no sense at all, grosso, zambrotta and cannavaro shouldn't be there. the right back position is already well covered with maggio and cassani. calling up fabio cannavaro and not his younger brother paolo (who has been simply stunning this season) is ridiculous. and not picking balzaretti is simply OUTRAGEOUS! how the hell grosso made the squad and balzaretti didn't? that's just crazy!
the world cup is the craziest, most unpredictable competition in football. the timing of the competition, its duration, the format, the fact that the squads are formed by players coming from different clubs, all theese factors make it impossible to just look at the call-ups and say "okay, this team might turn out to be the winner". it's mostly a matter of chemistry between the players, determination (hunger, if u like) flexibility and tactical wisdom (tactics are more important in a world cup than in every other football competition).
so even though this is NOT the best italy has to offer right now (and i'm afraid the starting 11 is gonna be even worse than that, wich is a shame, as we could line up a pretty good team), even with this team we might actually come out with a good performance...................
..but to be honest, i really don't think so.
actually this may be an interesting topic. what players would u guys call-up and how would u have them playing? why don't u guys put down a starting 11 (with the backups for each position).... i'm quite curious to see how would YOUR italy look like.
i don't like it at all. just too many weird call-ups. quagliarella has been in a horrible form this season, calling gattuso ahead of nocerino makes no sense at all, grosso, zambrotta and cannavaro shouldn't be there. the right back position is already well covered with maggio and cassani. calling up fabio cannavaro and not his younger brother paolo (who has been simply stunning this season) is ridiculous. and not picking balzaretti is simply OUTRAGEOUS! how the hell grosso made the squad and balzaretti didn't? that's just crazy!
the world cup is the craziest, most unpredictable competition in football. the timing of the competition, its duration, the format, the fact that the squads are formed by players coming from different clubs, all theese factors make it impossible to just look at the call-ups and say "okay, this team might turn out to be the winner". it's mostly a matter of chemistry between the players, determination (hunger, if u like) flexibility and tactical wisdom (tactics are more important in a world cup than in every other football competition).
so even though this is NOT the best italy has to offer right now (and i'm afraid the starting 11 is gonna be even worse than that, wich is a shame, as we could line up a pretty good team), even with this team we might actually come out with a good performance...................
..but to be honest, i really don't think so.
actually this may be an interesting topic. what players would u guys call-up and how would u have them playing? why don't u guys put down a starting 11 (with the backups for each position).... i'm quite curious to see how would YOUR italy look like.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
the squad is a discgrace but I wont and cant accept the non-consideration of miccoli. lippi is an arrogant idiot, 2006 it was lucarelli and 2010 its miccoli. so if you see these names side by side you can assume what lippis problem is (among other things for sure).
the squad is a discgrace but I wont and cant accept the non-consideration of miccoli. lippi is an arrogant idiot, 2006 it was lucarelli and 2010 its miccoli. so if you see these names side by side you can assume what lippis problem is (among other things for sure).
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I'll just go out and say that Italy is gonna surprise a lot of people. And I'd NEVER question Lippi. He obvious has huge amount of faith in the players he selected, and why won't he, they're the ones who got him the World Cup last time around. And really, playing for your national team is completely different. Germany might look an average side on paper, but you bet they'll reach the semis. It's Germany, they're winners. So is Lippi.
I'll just go out and say that Italy is gonna surprise a lot of people. And I'd NEVER question Lippi. He obvious has huge amount of faith in the players he selected, and why won't he, they're the ones who got him the World Cup last time around. And really, playing for your national team is completely different. Germany might look an average side on paper, but you bet they'll reach the semis. It's Germany, they're winners. So is Lippi.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
i'm not questioning lippi either abhi. i never would. marcello has been one of the greatests coaches in the last 20 years (the whole post-sacchi era). the only ones who would deserve to be mentioned along him are ferguson, capello, hiddink and ancelotti. the thing is, marcello lippi is not a football coach anymore. he retired 4 years ago, after winning the world cup. and even though he got back, after that 2 years stop he wasn't the same coach anymore. he lost that mental edge, that gutsyness that, along with his unmatchable ability to read the game, made him one of the best ever.
it's pretty normal afterall. i remember the same thing happened to sacchi, when he got back to coaching after retiring.... he just wasn't the same coach anymore (but, unlike lippi, sacchi realised it pretty soon and retired again).
his nostalgia, his attachment to the players that won 4 years ago is understandable, but it's also causing us some serious damages. 4 years are a long time in football. gattuso is not the same player he was and the same goes for zambrotta. cannavaro is the shadow of his former self. 4 years ago grosso was a pretty good leftback for his club, but he used to just transform himself into a world class monster whenever he wore italy's jersey..... sadly in the last season, grosso has been awful with both juve and italy's shirt.
it would be easier to understand his call-ups if we didn't have better options....but we do!
i agree with with ernestito. if lippi will line up the starting 11 i think he will line up, then a quarter final would be a good result for us. but as i said earlier, the world cup is the most unpredictable competition in football, so u never know.
it's just sad to think that we could line up a much better formation though.
anyhow how would your italy team look like ernesto?
i'm not questioning lippi either abhi. i never would. marcello has been one of the greatests coaches in the last 20 years (the whole post-sacchi era). the only ones who would deserve to be mentioned along him are ferguson, capello, hiddink and ancelotti. the thing is, marcello lippi is not a football coach anymore. he retired 4 years ago, after winning the world cup. and even though he got back, after that 2 years stop he wasn't the same coach anymore. he lost that mental edge, that gutsyness that, along with his unmatchable ability to read the game, made him one of the best ever.
it's pretty normal afterall. i remember the same thing happened to sacchi, when he got back to coaching after retiring.... he just wasn't the same coach anymore (but, unlike lippi, sacchi realised it pretty soon and retired again).
his nostalgia, his attachment to the players that won 4 years ago is understandable, but it's also causing us some serious damages. 4 years are a long time in football. gattuso is not the same player he was and the same goes for zambrotta. cannavaro is the shadow of his former self. 4 years ago grosso was a pretty good leftback for his club, but he used to just transform himself into a world class monster whenever he wore italy's jersey..... sadly in the last season, grosso has been awful with both juve and italy's shirt.
it would be easier to understand his call-ups if we didn't have better options....but we do!
i agree with with ernestito. if lippi will line up the starting 11 i think he will line up, then a quarter final would be a good result for us. but as i said earlier, the world cup is the most unpredictable competition in football, so u never know.
it's just sad to think that we could line up a much better formation though.
anyhow how would your italy team look like ernesto?
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Italy is one of these teams who always have a slow start in WC's.
If they can survive the group stage everything is possible. They could well win the WC.
Like Ben said the WC is a very strange and unpredictable competition. Some teams have what it takes to win the WC, even if they have a fairly uninspiring team: Germany, Brazil and also Italy have proven thatv they can do it. On paper Spain are the logical favourites, but somehow the usually fail in WC's...as daft as this sounds now, i think Italy have as much chance winning the World Cup than the fantastic Spanish team...
Italy is one of these teams who always have a slow start in WC's.
If they can survive the group stage everything is possible. They could well win the WC.
Like Ben said the WC is a very strange and unpredictable competition. Some teams have what it takes to win the WC, even if they have a fairly uninspiring team: Germany, Brazil and also Italy have proven thatv they can do it. On paper Spain are the logical favourites, but somehow the usually fail in WC's...as daft as this sounds now, i think Italy have as much chance winning the World Cup than the fantastic Spanish team...
Zeem
Wonder Boy
- 15 July 2006
- AC Milan
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
No Pato in Brazil squad, that ruins it for me.
About the Italy squad, just the squad I expected except Legrottaglie which is a relief.
Gatusso has officialy lost his heart. I think he played like only 4-5 full games this season, but I doubt we will see him much in this tournament except screaming and dancing on the bench. No way Lippi can rely on him as a starter. He has been awful. Leonardo has only used him in unimportant games.
As for Zambrotta and Grosso, I think having their spot in the squad secured from 2 years ago made them not feel the need to impress in friendly national games. Zambrotta has had a long injury this year, but before that he was good and still made some good runs and solid on defence, but no doubt Antonini showed more heart and enthusiasm and there by a starting
position in the final games.
For me Balzaretti is the biggest blow taking into consideration Cassano and Miccoli we not even considered. He has been awesome this season.
For me the most possible squad will be:
---------------buffon----------------
Zambrotta--Canna--Chiellini---Grosso-
------De Rossi---Pirlo--Marchisio----
--Pepe/Camoranesi---Di Natale/Rossi--
--------Gilardino/many options-------
No Pato in Brazil squad, that ruins it for me.
About the Italy squad, just the squad I expected except Legrottaglie which is a relief.
Gatusso has officialy lost his heart. I think he played like only 4-5 full games this season, but I doubt we will see him much in this tournament except screaming and dancing on the bench. No way Lippi can rely on him as a starter. He has been awful. Leonardo has only used him in unimportant games.
As for Zambrotta and Grosso, I think having their spot in the squad secured from 2 years ago made them not feel the need to impress in friendly national games. Zambrotta has had a long injury this year, but before that he was good and still made some good runs and solid on defence, but no doubt Antonini showed more heart and enthusiasm and there by a starting
position in the final games.
For me Balzaretti is the biggest blow taking into consideration Cassano and Miccoli we not even considered. He has been awesome this season.
For me the most possible squad will be:
---------------buffon----------------
Zambrotta--Canna--Chiellini---Grosso-
------De Rossi---Pirlo--Marchisio----
--Pepe/Camoranesi---Di Natale/Rossi--
--------Gilardino/many options-------
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I'm sure Ben is secretly happy no palermo players have been called up, just so they can be fresh and healthy beginning of next season. But lets be honest, most are lacking international quality. We've seen what Di Natale is capable of in the calcio, but he has very rarely delivered on the international stage. Nocerino is brimming with energy but little more than that. I have my doubts abotu Cassani and Balzaretti too. Playing for Italy is different from playing for Sampdoria or Palermo where the expectations are lower. We saw what happened with Zaccardo and Balzagri, but then Grosso was able to surprise. It's difficult one to call.
I dunno. If only lippi had taken them over to SA for the confed cup. At least then we could guage whether they are ready to contest versus top class opposition. The way I see it, the quality of Italian players since 2006 has been poor (relative to the 90s), so there isn't much to chose from with certainty. Players like Marchetti, Candreva, Marchisio and Rossi have failed to impress this season, Bochetti hasn't emerged as we had hoped, Montolivo is still too timid-a-player, Gilardino and Boriello haven't seized the opportunities they have been given.... I don't envy Lippi. Remember when we had to choose between Inzaghi, Vieri, Totti, Del Piero and Montella
Hey Ben, what do you think of Thiago Motta being drafted in into the squad? I'm sorry, I just don't rate De Rossi. He's the type of midfielder who should be taking the reigns and assuming leadership in midfield. And that's with Roma. No doubt Pizarro is the orchestrator in midfield but for me De Rossi doesn't pull his weight on the creative end. I suppose you can't have it all (neither Lampard or gerrard can tackle) but De Rossi is a rare specimen of footballer that can deliver on either end of the field (play like a sweeper almost), dominate the midfield, guard the back for as well create scoring chances, and in effect control the game. There's no doubting De Rossi is a better player, but Motta makes more of an attempt to command the midfield (well, the only other option is cambiasso, so there's not much choice). I would like to see Motta as De Rossi's back up, better yet Montolivo's. I can picture a three man midfield of Motta, De Rossi and Pirlo (my personal preference is D'Ago, but he's unavailable).
It's weird Gattuso would get a call up instead Ambrosini, but if it were up to me, neither would be included. I would gamble with Balzaretti at left back, not sure about right back, it's too bad about Santon. I would include Antonini because he is a solid performer and we can know what to expect with him. Not sure about this 4-3-3 formation, it has largely been ineffective when used. I dunno. This Italy is screwed. I forget what group there in, but I would be at all surprised if they get knocked out in the group stages.
I'm sure Ben is secretly happy no palermo players have been called up, just so they can be fresh and healthy beginning of next season. But lets be honest, most are lacking international quality. We've seen what Di Natale is capable of in the calcio, but he has very rarely delivered on the international stage. Nocerino is brimming with energy but little more than that. I have my doubts abotu Cassani and Balzaretti too. Playing for Italy is different from playing for Sampdoria or Palermo where the expectations are lower. We saw what happened with Zaccardo and Balzagri, but then Grosso was able to surprise. It's difficult one to call.
I dunno. If only lippi had taken them over to SA for the confed cup. At least then we could guage whether they are ready to contest versus top class opposition. The way I see it, the quality of Italian players since 2006 has been poor (relative to the 90s), so there isn't much to chose from with certainty. Players like Marchetti, Candreva, Marchisio and Rossi have failed to impress this season, Bochetti hasn't emerged as we had hoped, Montolivo is still too timid-a-player, Gilardino and Boriello haven't seized the opportunities they have been given.... I don't envy Lippi. Remember when we had to choose between Inzaghi, Vieri, Totti, Del Piero and Montella
Hey Ben, what do you think of Thiago Motta being drafted in into the squad? I'm sorry, I just don't rate De Rossi. He's the type of midfielder who should be taking the reigns and assuming leadership in midfield. And that's with Roma. No doubt Pizarro is the orchestrator in midfield but for me De Rossi doesn't pull his weight on the creative end. I suppose you can't have it all (neither Lampard or gerrard can tackle) but De Rossi is a rare specimen of footballer that can deliver on either end of the field (play like a sweeper almost), dominate the midfield, guard the back for as well create scoring chances, and in effect control the game. There's no doubting De Rossi is a better player, but Motta makes more of an attempt to command the midfield (well, the only other option is cambiasso, so there's not much choice). I would like to see Motta as De Rossi's back up, better yet Montolivo's. I can picture a three man midfield of Motta, De Rossi and Pirlo (my personal preference is D'Ago, but he's unavailable).
It's weird Gattuso would get a call up instead Ambrosini, but if it were up to me, neither would be included. I would gamble with Balzaretti at left back, not sure about right back, it's too bad about Santon. I would include Antonini because he is a solid performer and we can know what to expect with him. Not sure about this 4-3-3 formation, it has largely been ineffective when used. I dunno. This Italy is screwed. I forget what group there in, but I would be at all surprised if they get knocked out in the group stages.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
gk: buffon, sirigu, amelia
defenders: cassani, chiellini, balzaretti, criscito, motta, p. cannavaro, bocchetti
midfielders: de rossi, marchisio, montolivo, maggio, pepe, pirlo, perrotta, palombo
forwards: pazzini, cassano, miccoli, borriello, gilardino, di natale
this would probably be my team. as and when required, just remove a forward player and add a defender or midfielder. I think di natale could also play as a right midfielder though.
buffon (not the old buffon anymore but still)
cassani-chiellini-p.cannavaro-balzaretti (criscito)
marchisio-de rossi-pirlo
pepe-gilardino-miccoli (di natale)
anyhow how would your italy team look like ernesto?
gk: buffon, sirigu, amelia
defenders: cassani, chiellini, balzaretti, criscito, motta, p. cannavaro, bocchetti
midfielders: de rossi, marchisio, montolivo, maggio, pepe, pirlo, perrotta, palombo
forwards: pazzini, cassano, miccoli, borriello, gilardino, di natale
this would probably be my team. as and when required, just remove a forward player and add a defender or midfielder. I think di natale could also play as a right midfielder though.
buffon (not the old buffon anymore but still)
cassani-chiellini-p.cannavaro-balzaretti (criscito)
marchisio-de rossi-pirlo
pepe-gilardino-miccoli (di natale)
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
i like your team ernestito
rfu, i don't agree with the "lack of international experience" argument. if serie a were a minor league, then not playing in european cups might actually be a factor..... but balzaretti, aswell as all our others midclass team players, has been playing against some of the best players in the world. balzaretti handled very well the likes of maicon, eto'o, vucinic, ronaldinho and so on. he faced world class players week in week out and proved himself as the best and most complete leftback in the league over the last 2 years.
u mention di natale, barzagli and zaccardo, but i wouldn't use them to prove the point. di natale was great with donadoni in charge. then after euro 2008 he didn't perform that well, but that's because the whole italy team has been awful in the last 2 years. barzagli faced a trmendous downfall in his last 6 months in palermo.... he was horrible in that 1 match he played in euro 2008.... but once again, the whole team didn't play well... plus 1 single match certainly isn't enough to say he's been a failure with italy's shirt. and zaccardo too played a single match with italy (the WC 2006 match against USA)... poor fella he scored an owngoal... but 1 single match is not enough to judge him. besides zaccardo was never supposed to be a great addition to the club, to be fair. he was just a useful backup.
right now we couldn't line up a team full ot big stars (like we used to do in the past)....but we could line up a young, hungry and extremely talented team, which would be much better than this amarcord team lippi is bringing to south africa.
we don't have "fancy stars" coz our best players right now are playing for midclass teams (hence many people doesn't know em or rate em).
the italy team i have in my mind wouldn't be an amazing team packed with world class players like the teams we had in 2006, 2002, '98, '94 and '90.... but it would be a very good team, which would probably have bigger chances in a world cup than the current team.... and which would definitely play a much better football (wich is the most important thing).
as for thiago motta, he's a very nice player (when he's fit). but de rossi is just on another planet in terms of personality, consistancy, leadership, technique, fitness, strenght and pace. u don't look for an alfa romeo, when u have a ferrari in your garage
oh and i disagree (strongly) about the fact motta is more of a leader than de rossi. commanding the midfield is probably de rossi's best asset.
btw what would be your italy team rfu? put down a starting formation
i like your team ernestito
rfu, i don't agree with the "lack of international experience" argument. if serie a were a minor league, then not playing in european cups might actually be a factor..... but balzaretti, aswell as all our others midclass team players, has been playing against some of the best players in the world. balzaretti handled very well the likes of maicon, eto'o, vucinic, ronaldinho and so on. he faced world class players week in week out and proved himself as the best and most complete leftback in the league over the last 2 years.
u mention di natale, barzagli and zaccardo, but i wouldn't use them to prove the point. di natale was great with donadoni in charge. then after euro 2008 he didn't perform that well, but that's because the whole italy team has been awful in the last 2 years. barzagli faced a trmendous downfall in his last 6 months in palermo.... he was horrible in that 1 match he played in euro 2008.... but once again, the whole team didn't play well... plus 1 single match certainly isn't enough to say he's been a failure with italy's shirt. and zaccardo too played a single match with italy (the WC 2006 match against USA)... poor fella he scored an owngoal... but 1 single match is not enough to judge him. besides zaccardo was never supposed to be a great addition to the club, to be fair. he was just a useful backup.
the 2006 one was a world class team with lots of players on their prime. marchetti, candreva, marchisio, bocchetti... they're all youngsters, so obviously they're still far from their prime..... but they're already better than many of our old glories..... besides, i really don't think rossi, marchisio and bocchetti failed to impress. rossi had a troubled season coz of his father's death, but he's been great till that familiar tragedy. candreva had some problems in juve (but then again, even messi wouldn't perform in this juve team)... as for marchisio, he's been absolutely fantastic!!rfu said:
right now we couldn't line up a team full ot big stars (like we used to do in the past)....but we could line up a young, hungry and extremely talented team, which would be much better than this amarcord team lippi is bringing to south africa.
we don't have "fancy stars" coz our best players right now are playing for midclass teams (hence many people doesn't know em or rate em).
the italy team i have in my mind wouldn't be an amazing team packed with world class players like the teams we had in 2006, 2002, '98, '94 and '90.... but it would be a very good team, which would probably have bigger chances in a world cup than the current team.... and which would definitely play a much better football (wich is the most important thing).
as for thiago motta, he's a very nice player (when he's fit). but de rossi is just on another planet in terms of personality, consistancy, leadership, technique, fitness, strenght and pace. u don't look for an alfa romeo, when u have a ferrari in your garage
oh and i disagree (strongly) about the fact motta is more of a leader than de rossi. commanding the midfield is probably de rossi's best asset.
btw what would be your italy team rfu? put down a starting formation
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I think Grosso and Iaquinta proved that you don't necessarily need international experience to be awesome. In 2006 they were absolutely crucial to our team.
I think Grosso and Iaquinta proved that you don't necessarily need international experience to be awesome. In 2006 they were absolutely crucial to our team.
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Thiago Motta is a very useful player and under-rated for most of his career. But I would NOT get him in the squad. He's close to 30 now, isn't he? and Brazilian (Italian roots of course like many Brazilians tho). It's one thing when players naturalize at younger age and have many useful years ahead like Camoranesi, but I'm against the idea of guys like Amauri or Motta turning out for Italy at this stage of their careers.
If they were the world's very best and Italy had no other decent options then sure maybe but they do. And this isn't just about Italy. I'm generally against players playing for different nations (other than one where they really come from) unless there's a great reason for it.
Anyway, I don't like Lippi's squad either. There are a lot of changes I'd make! Not one or two! But having said all that, it's hard for me to disapprove of what Marcelo does.
So while I would go about things differently, I do have faith in him and think he'll still do better than most expect. But of course I'm disappointed because in my opinion, Italy has better players to represent them than the ones that will in this world cup.
p.s. Am I right to think that at this stage, the Roma vs. Inter rivalry (hatred between fans etc.) is perhaps the strongest/most heated it's ever been with everything that has gone on in recent memory and in general over the last 5 years or so? Would it be fair to say this rivalry is now at its peak? or at least as intense as it's ever been in Italian football history?
Thiago Motta is a very useful player and under-rated for most of his career. But I would NOT get him in the squad. He's close to 30 now, isn't he? and Brazilian (Italian roots of course like many Brazilians tho). It's one thing when players naturalize at younger age and have many useful years ahead like Camoranesi, but I'm against the idea of guys like Amauri or Motta turning out for Italy at this stage of their careers.
If they were the world's very best and Italy had no other decent options then sure maybe but they do. And this isn't just about Italy. I'm generally against players playing for different nations (other than one where they really come from) unless there's a great reason for it.
Anyway, I don't like Lippi's squad either. There are a lot of changes I'd make! Not one or two! But having said all that, it's hard for me to disapprove of what Marcelo does.
So while I would go about things differently, I do have faith in him and think he'll still do better than most expect. But of course I'm disappointed because in my opinion, Italy has better players to represent them than the ones that will in this world cup.
p.s. Am I right to think that at this stage, the Roma vs. Inter rivalry (hatred between fans etc.) is perhaps the strongest/most heated it's ever been with everything that has gone on in recent memory and in general over the last 5 years or so? Would it be fair to say this rivalry is now at its peak? or at least as intense as it's ever been in Italian football history?
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
The Inter-Roma rivalry is the same Juventus-Roma rivalry there was 5 years ago. From my point of view it all was born because Roma fans can't lose. According to them, they are always victim of refereers or "the system", and again according to them Inter is the new Juve (robbers). Plus add the Milano-Roma rivalry and North-South one, and the fact that in general winners are always hated.
The "fight club" match of Coppa Italia remembered me the older Roma-Juventus matches of some years ago, for example the one where Cufré punched Del Piero in the face (if you don't remember it, it's on youtube). If I don't remember wrong, in recent years there wasn't a such violent Roma-Inter match.
The problem is Roma fans hate almost everyone. They hate Lazio, Juventus, Inter, Catania, Livorno, Napoli, Atalanta and other teams (I think also Milan). They feel too much the rivalry with other teams.
The Inter-Roma rivalry is the same Juventus-Roma rivalry there was 5 years ago. From my point of view it all was born because Roma fans can't lose. According to them, they are always victim of refereers or "the system", and again according to them Inter is the new Juve (robbers). Plus add the Milano-Roma rivalry and North-South one, and the fact that in general winners are always hated.
The "fight club" match of Coppa Italia remembered me the older Roma-Juventus matches of some years ago, for example the one where Cufré punched Del Piero in the face (if you don't remember it, it's on youtube). If I don't remember wrong, in recent years there wasn't a such violent Roma-Inter match.
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I think the Italy squad has good players but what worries and annoys me is the players Lippi will choose to start. Gattuso will probably start, as will Cannavaro..... which will be disappointing.. he was a clown vs Parma.
I think the Italy squad has good players but what worries and annoys me is the players Lippi will choose to start. Gattuso will probably start, as will Cannavaro..... which will be disappointing.. he was a clown vs Parma.
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
But there are cases where the quality is just evident, for example Diego Milito, a chance can be taken and the player will deliver. Grosso is another one. May be in some cases players are unlucky or experiencing difficulty (for example Rossi). But then there are others who have been given countless opportunities, Peppe, Gilardino, Boriello, Amelia, and they haven't succeeded when given the chance.
As for my starting 11, I'm still to busy trying to figure out what England will do, haven't had much time for Italy. I would like to see a counter-attacking 5-3-2 formation that transforms into a 4-3-3 when in possession. I would take a gamble on Bonucci. Maybe Maggio as a WB slash Winger but he's been somewhat disappointing this half of the season. My two forwards would be Pazzini and Di Natale because they offer good off the ball movement and can be tricky to mark.
Your arguement falls short when you look former england players, Paul Robinson, David James, Upson, Shorey, Bent, Lee Bowyer, Alan Smith, etc, they've all played against world class players in the EPL on a weekly basis BUT on the international stage their form as been sub-par. It's just a different level of football. And those playing for mid-table clubs, expectations are less, there's much less pressure, you can take more risk. Look at Burdisso. Horrible with Inter, but at Roma he's a consistent performer, even managing to oust Mexes from the starting 11.
But there are cases where the quality is just evident, for example Diego Milito, a chance can be taken and the player will deliver. Grosso is another one. May be in some cases players are unlucky or experiencing difficulty (for example Rossi). But then there are others who have been given countless opportunities, Peppe, Gilardino, Boriello, Amelia, and they haven't succeeded when given the chance.
As for my starting 11, I'm still to busy trying to figure out what England will do, haven't had much time for Italy. I would like to see a counter-attacking 5-3-2 formation that transforms into a 4-3-3 when in possession. I would take a gamble on Bonucci. Maybe Maggio as a WB slash Winger but he's been somewhat disappointing this half of the season. My two forwards would be Pazzini and Di Natale because they offer good off the ball movement and can be tricky to mark.
We've played them in the coppa and super coppa numerous times over the last 8-10 years. Our match ups are always exciting (our 4-3 win after going 3-0 down in the 1st half is a personal favorite). It's rarely violent but very intense. And either entertaining or high scoring. For me it has surpassed the derby d'italia because those are rarely interesting anymore.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
whoa, rfu! we're talking about the likes of balzaretti, miccoli and cassano here! u can't throw in players like shorey, upson, bowyer or alan smith... i mean come on!
look, this whole thing about the "international experience" or the fact that international football is on a different quality is just a nonsense bullshit. u wanna know what this is really about? hype. the truth is when a player does marvel for a midclass team, no one notice it, coz even if that player is outplaying, say maicon, just a few people in the world will be watching that match.
let's make an example. balzaretti played against some of the very best players in the world in the last 2 years, always coming out with great performances.... and yet if lippi would have called him, most of the fans in the world would have said "and who the hell is this guy? man, italy must have some serious problems if even a nobody like this blondie can make the national team!".....then, let's imagine palermo plays in champions league next season.... they face debreceni (or maccabi, or zurich, or any other of those "international high quality teams") in a group stage match. he obviously tears his opponents apart. and the very next day everyone in the world praises the new world class leftback federico balzaretti!
that's how it always goes... that's the "international higher quality" u're talking about.... it's just a bunch of idiots getting carried away. we see this every year..... jovetic was a nobody until his match against liverpool.... and then after that single performance, he went from being a nobody to a potential world class player. and the year before it happened with benzema. he was scoring for fun in ligue un, and yet most of the fans in the world thought he was overrated (even though they probably never saw him playing).... then he played a good match in champions league and, MARVEL! he suddenly becomes one of the best young strikers in the world.... and it only took 1 single european match!!!!
till the match between spain and england (i seem to remember it was last year) many people in here used to write villa was hugely overrated.... then after watching villa playing that match, one of those people who labelled him as an overrated player wrote he was the best striker in the world! LOL!
this is what "international experience" really means rfu: hype. nothing more than that. internationa football (champions league) is not "a different level" like u said. because those few top clubs don't really represent the average quality of champions league. sure there are man utd, chelsea, arsenal, real madrid, barca, valencia, bayern.... but those are just 7 clubs.... champions league has 32 clubs.... if those few top clubs are definitely on par (if not better) than their italian counterparts, the rest of them are other leagues midclass clubs, which certainly aren't better than italian midclass clubs..... and then u have about 10 clubs (1\3 ot the total number of clubs in CL) like debreceni, zurich, maccabi haifa, apoel, cluj, unirea urziceni and so on, which would probably be fighting to avoid relegation if they were playing in serie a.
so let's be honest. all this "international quality" crap, it's just a matter of visibility. u play great for palermo against serie a teams for an entire season? no one will even notice it. u play great in a single champions league match against cluj? then the world is at your feet. that's just ridiculous.
4 years ago lippi picked a team with lots of players who had absolutely no "international experience" at all. toni, grosso, perrotta, iaquinta, barzagli, zaccardo, barone...... we won a world cup with those "nobodies". i still remember some friends of mine (who obviously weren't palermo fans, hence didn't really know our players coz they lacked "international experience") having a laugh at lippi when he first called-up the likes of toni and grosso... they were both palermo players those days and they were in their prime... i remember telling them "toni and grosso are actually among the best players in the world in their roles"...they thought i was joking. yeah, sure.... afterall how could they be "good stuff" if they didn't even play in champions league.... they lacked "international quality". LOL!
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little note: why u think gila didn't failed with whenever given a chance with italy's shirt? take a look at this. that's the all time italy scorers chart Classifica dei marcatori della Nazionale di calcio italiana - Wikipedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:1leftarrow.png" class="image"><img alt="1leftarrow.png" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/1leftarrow.png/16px-1leftarrow.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/8/8e/1leftarrow.png/16px-1leftarrow.png gilardino is the 14th best scorer in the history of italy's national team.... and he's still 27. he's probably gonna reach the top 10 before his 30th birthday. he will probably reach monsters like baggio and altobelli (wich means having score more than legends like rossi, mazzola, bettega and rivera) by the time he retires. how is that a failure?
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whoa, rfu! we're talking about the likes of balzaretti, miccoli and cassano here! u can't throw in players like shorey, upson, bowyer or alan smith... i mean come on!
look, this whole thing about the "international experience" or the fact that international football is on a different quality is just a nonsense bullshit. u wanna know what this is really about? hype. the truth is when a player does marvel for a midclass team, no one notice it, coz even if that player is outplaying, say maicon, just a few people in the world will be watching that match.
let's make an example. balzaretti played against some of the very best players in the world in the last 2 years, always coming out with great performances.... and yet if lippi would have called him, most of the fans in the world would have said "and who the hell is this guy? man, italy must have some serious problems if even a nobody like this blondie can make the national team!".....then, let's imagine palermo plays in champions league next season.... they face debreceni (or maccabi, or zurich, or any other of those "international high quality teams") in a group stage match. he obviously tears his opponents apart. and the very next day everyone in the world praises the new world class leftback federico balzaretti!
that's how it always goes... that's the "international higher quality" u're talking about.... it's just a bunch of idiots getting carried away. we see this every year..... jovetic was a nobody until his match against liverpool.... and then after that single performance, he went from being a nobody to a potential world class player. and the year before it happened with benzema. he was scoring for fun in ligue un, and yet most of the fans in the world thought he was overrated (even though they probably never saw him playing).... then he played a good match in champions league and, MARVEL! he suddenly becomes one of the best young strikers in the world.... and it only took 1 single european match!!!!
till the match between spain and england (i seem to remember it was last year) many people in here used to write villa was hugely overrated.... then after watching villa playing that match, one of those people who labelled him as an overrated player wrote he was the best striker in the world! LOL!
this is what "international experience" really means rfu: hype. nothing more than that. internationa football (champions league) is not "a different level" like u said. because those few top clubs don't really represent the average quality of champions league. sure there are man utd, chelsea, arsenal, real madrid, barca, valencia, bayern.... but those are just 7 clubs.... champions league has 32 clubs.... if those few top clubs are definitely on par (if not better) than their italian counterparts, the rest of them are other leagues midclass clubs, which certainly aren't better than italian midclass clubs..... and then u have about 10 clubs (1\3 ot the total number of clubs in CL) like debreceni, zurich, maccabi haifa, apoel, cluj, unirea urziceni and so on, which would probably be fighting to avoid relegation if they were playing in serie a.
so let's be honest. all this "international quality" crap, it's just a matter of visibility. u play great for palermo against serie a teams for an entire season? no one will even notice it. u play great in a single champions league match against cluj? then the world is at your feet. that's just ridiculous.
4 years ago lippi picked a team with lots of players who had absolutely no "international experience" at all. toni, grosso, perrotta, iaquinta, barzagli, zaccardo, barone...... we won a world cup with those "nobodies". i still remember some friends of mine (who obviously weren't palermo fans, hence didn't really know our players coz they lacked "international experience") having a laugh at lippi when he first called-up the likes of toni and grosso... they were both palermo players those days and they were in their prime... i remember telling them "toni and grosso are actually among the best players in the world in their roles"...they thought i was joking. yeah, sure.... afterall how could they be "good stuff" if they didn't even play in champions league.... they lacked "international quality". LOL!
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little note: why u think gila didn't failed with whenever given a chance with italy's shirt? take a look at this. that's the all time italy scorers chart Classifica dei marcatori della Nazionale di calcio italiana - Wikipedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:1leftarrow.png" class="image"><img alt="1leftarrow.png" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/1leftarrow.png/16px-1leftarrow.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/8/8e/1leftarrow.png/16px-1leftarrow.png gilardino is the 14th best scorer in the history of italy's national team.... and he's still 27. he's probably gonna reach the top 10 before his 30th birthday. he will probably reach monsters like baggio and altobelli (wich means having score more than legends like rossi, mazzola, bettega and rivera) by the time he retires. how is that a failure?
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that sounds quite similar to what i have in my mind. and btw picking bonucci wouldn't be a gamble... the real gamble is benching bonucci and lining up cannavaro.rfu said:
yeah it probably is. but as rfu pointed out, there isn't any real hatred between the fans. it's just pure rivalry. when i think about fans who hate each others my mind goes to juve and parma, or roma and lazio or juve and inter or juve and fiorentina or milan and genoa. those are definitely "unhealthy" rivalries. it's not like that between inter and roma. there's never been any sort of troubles with the fans.PLF said:
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Yeah I'm big fan of the LEGENDARY Fabio Cannavaro! But c'mon, if there was to be a Cannavaro in NT this year, it'd have to be Paolo and not Fabio if anything lol. Still the legend's experience will be vital to the group. So I'm not pissed off that he's in the team. But realistically, he shouldn't be a 1st-teamer. But he will be.
Completely agree with you on the whole 'hype / Int'l quality' thing Ben. It's very true.
Only thing is, I think what rFu and others might mean by lack of Int'l experience is not so much the 'quality' of the player because like you said, we're talking about high quality players here, and Bowyer was btw also a real top quality player in his prime at Leeds, but the pressure of playing at the highest level like in Int'l football.
For me, that can be a valid point for SOME players depending on personalities. Otherwise their quality is undeniable like you said. Now whether someone who's never played CL football in his life tho can suddenly perform up to his usual quality and standard when being watched by more people than he could EVER imagine in a spectacle as global and as grand as World Cup or would he freeze, get nervous or make mistakes, that's a whole other topic and an interesting as well as valid one.
In those cases, it's true that because CL football like World cup though still not even as much, gets MASSIVE coverage/hype and viewers, players who are used to it are more likely to cope well with the pressure of their every move being watched by millions! But even then, it doesn't necessarily mean anything as it depends on the players' personality more than anything.
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About Roma vs. Inter, yah I mean the rivalry between them itself is probably as big as it's ever been now in both clubs' respective history.
p.s. No Cambiasso nor Zanetti in Fn Maradona's Argentina! Gutted for those 2 players. Wonder how they're feeling right about now and what they're thinking. Oh well at least Milito looks like he'll get what he deserves!
Yeah I'm big fan of the LEGENDARY Fabio Cannavaro! But c'mon, if there was to be a Cannavaro in NT this year, it'd have to be Paolo and not Fabio if anything lol. Still the legend's experience will be vital to the group. So I'm not pissed off that he's in the team. But realistically, he shouldn't be a 1st-teamer. But he will be.
Completely agree with you on the whole 'hype / Int'l quality' thing Ben. It's very true.
Only thing is, I think what rFu and others might mean by lack of Int'l experience is not so much the 'quality' of the player because like you said, we're talking about high quality players here, and Bowyer was btw also a real top quality player in his prime at Leeds, but the pressure of playing at the highest level like in Int'l football.
For me, that can be a valid point for SOME players depending on personalities. Otherwise their quality is undeniable like you said. Now whether someone who's never played CL football in his life tho can suddenly perform up to his usual quality and standard when being watched by more people than he could EVER imagine in a spectacle as global and as grand as World Cup or would he freeze, get nervous or make mistakes, that's a whole other topic and an interesting as well as valid one.
In those cases, it's true that because CL football like World cup though still not even as much, gets MASSIVE coverage/hype and viewers, players who are used to it are more likely to cope well with the pressure of their every move being watched by millions! But even then, it doesn't necessarily mean anything as it depends on the players' personality more than anything.
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About Roma vs. Inter, yah I mean the rivalry between them itself is probably as big as it's ever been now in both clubs' respective history.
p.s. No Cambiasso nor Zanetti in Fn Maradona's Argentina!
Gutted for those 2 players. Wonder how they're feeling right about now and what they're thinking. Oh well at least Milito looks like he'll get what he deserves!
Zeem
Wonder Boy
- 15 July 2006
- AC Milan
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
I don't know about Milito. Maradona's insistance on Palermo and he likes Lavezzi makes it not so safe. He can't drop Aguero,Messi,Higuain, and Tevez so that leaves 1 max 2 spots.
The drop of many big names in this tournament is some what disappointing. Some of my mates don't watch football everyweek and do not have knowledge about some new not very known players are very disappointed not to see the likes of Ronaldinho,Zanetti,Benzema and others. But hey that's just an entertainment not a team going to win view of the game.
I don't know about Milito. Maradona's insistance on Palermo and he likes Lavezzi makes it not so safe. He can't drop Aguero,Messi,Higuain, and Tevez so that leaves 1 max 2 spots.
The drop of many big names in this tournament is some what disappointing. Some of my mates don't watch football everyweek and do not have knowledge about some new not very known players are very disappointed not to see the likes of Ronaldinho,Zanetti,Benzema and others. But hey that's just an entertainment not a team going to win view of the game.
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Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Cambiasso is imo one of Inter's best players in the last 3 years... dropping him is a huge mistake.
Cambiasso is imo one of Inter's best players in the last 3 years... dropping him is a huge mistake.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Maradonna is an ass hole...Zanetti and Cambiasso should go to the WC.
Maradonna is an ass hole...Zanetti and Cambiasso should go to the WC.
Hey there
Band Geek Mafia
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Wait, Martin Palermo in and Milito out?
I would have called more Maxi Lopez, if the heavy forward was what Maradona needed. :\
Also, Gattuso. Why? I can name at least 5 defending midfielder who are actually better, and I can start with Pazienza from Napoli, who's mediocre at best but still he runs, Cristiano Zanetti, Antonio Nocerino, Massimo Ambrosini and, why not, Thiago Motta.
Gattuso's call reminds me of Antonio Di Livio in 2002, hope the result isn't the same :|
Wait, Martin Palermo in and Milito out?
I would have called more Maxi Lopez, if the heavy forward was what Maradona needed. :\
Also, Gattuso. Why? I can name at least 5 defending midfielder who are actually better, and I can start with Pazienza from Napoli, who's mediocre at best but still he runs, Cristiano Zanetti, Antonio Nocerino, Massimo Ambrosini and, why not, Thiago Motta.
Gattuso's call reminds me of Antonio Di Livio in 2002, hope the result isn't the same :|
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
For example, Di Natale is undoubtedly a better player technically than Eto'o. He's a much more complete forward who can manage pin point passes, can move intelligently, and place his shots nicely. He has managed twice as many goals than Eto'o playing for a team near the relegation zone. Where Eto'o has the edge is again that mental toughness. He can go a month not scoring goals and yet manage to not let that affect his form. He knows the fans are restless, he knows Mou will get on his back later, but he manages to keep his cool and wait for that one opportune moment to make a difference (see the 2nd leg goal vs Chelsea). This is what I mean. This is why the German's make it to the latter stages of tournaments, they maintain their cool in all situations, like they have ice water running through their veins. They don't panic when they go a goal down, miss a tackle or when they miss a string of easy chances. Not every player needs this, but it is important that the core of the team do, so to carry the rest.
This mental toughness is mostly important to the top teams who are expected to go far in the tournament. Other teams play with heart, can take risks and not over think things because they are expected to lose and go home. The same applies to UCL, teams like maccabi haifa, apoel, cluj who according to you wouldn't stand a chance in serie a. That maybe true, but in knock out tournaments where every game is a must win, nothing is expected off them, so they are able to relax, and play freely, without much care. Balzaretti and co. are used to that playing with Palermo (a top four finish is your scudetto), but in the WC they will playing for the current champions and they will have to perform like it.
And having that int'l experience would certainly help nurture that 'calm' and ability to maintain focus because you encounter an array of players across the continent with different skill levels who may play at a different tempo and employ different styles of play. You learn how to adjust and differentiate your tactics.
And I wouldn't be too quick to point out goal scoring form on the international stage. Crouch has 20 in 37 appearances. What matters is when and against whom.
Precisely. What I'm referring to is that 'mental toughness', that ability to remain calm and maintain focus and obtain a positive result no matter the opponent.
For example, Di Natale is undoubtedly a better player technically than Eto'o. He's a much more complete forward who can manage pin point passes, can move intelligently, and place his shots nicely. He has managed twice as many goals than Eto'o playing for a team near the relegation zone. Where Eto'o has the edge is again that mental toughness. He can go a month not scoring goals and yet manage to not let that affect his form. He knows the fans are restless, he knows Mou will get on his back later, but he manages to keep his cool and wait for that one opportune moment to make a difference (see the 2nd leg goal vs Chelsea). This is what I mean. This is why the German's make it to the latter stages of tournaments, they maintain their cool in all situations, like they have ice water running through their veins. They don't panic when they go a goal down, miss a tackle or when they miss a string of easy chances. Not every player needs this, but it is important that the core of the team do, so to carry the rest.
This mental toughness is mostly important to the top teams who are expected to go far in the tournament. Other teams play with heart, can take risks and not over think things because they are expected to lose and go home. The same applies to UCL, teams like maccabi haifa, apoel, cluj who according to you wouldn't stand a chance in serie a. That maybe true, but in knock out tournaments where every game is a must win, nothing is expected off them, so they are able to relax, and play freely, without much care. Balzaretti and co. are used to that playing with Palermo (a top four finish is your scudetto), but in the WC they will playing for the current champions and they will have to perform like it.
And having that int'l experience would certainly help nurture that 'calm' and ability to maintain focus because you encounter an array of players across the continent with different skill levels who may play at a different tempo and employ different styles of play. You learn how to adjust and differentiate your tactics.
And I wouldn't be too quick to point out goal scoring form on the international stage. Crouch has 20 in 37 appearances. What matters is when and against whom.
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lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
ohh, i see. so u weren't talking about quality but about mental coolness. now i get it. yeah, that's a valid point indeed. when u line up unexperienced players there's always a chance they might crack under the pressure and screw everything up. but then again, what is our alternative? we have 2 options, from where i sit.
1 - display a defensive line with grosso and zambrotta on the sides and cannavaro on the centre. then put gattuso at midfield. we already know what this means, right? coz we already saw it last year in confederations cup.... and this time chances are the situation is gonna be even worse, as cannavaro and grosso faced a staggering downfall this season.
2 - pick the best players this season has to offer and line them up as starters, regardless their lack of experience. maybe they'll panic, maybe they won't. the only thing we know is what will happen if we go for the "old glories"... coz we already tried that. i'd take my chances with the youngsters rather than face a certain failure with the experienced champions.
besides there are some things we should also consider.
first of, coolness it's not always related to experience. totti has loads of experience, he's close to the end of his carreer, and he's played international matches and champions league matches for about 12 years now. did experience turn him into a "mentally composed" player? absolutely not. he's everything but cool. then let's take giuseppe rossi for instance. he has very little experience, compared to totti. but that kid has more balls than talent (and he has quite a lot of talent). he's carried on his shoulders parma and dragged the team out of the relegation zone (almost on his own). i still remember the look on his face when he kicked that penalty that saved parma from relegation. it was unreal. rossi was the youngest player in that team... he was the newcomer, he wasn't supposed to lead the team in such a stressing situation (with all the respect for champions league, rfu, this kind of pressure just doesn't compare to a match against debreceni or cluj).... and yet he acted like a veteran.
and i'm sure u also remember last year's confederations cup. rossi (along with pirlo and chiellini) was one of the few players who stood out.
so having more experience doesn't necessarily means having a better ability to remain cool. experience infact is just a small factor. it's most about personality. u either got it or u don't. montolivo might become a world class player (and i hope so), but he will always have some problems with his shy low profile attitude, and that's not gonna help him to stay cool in critic situations....totti has all the experience u might want, but all that international experience didn't turn him into a cool player. guys like rossi, pazzini, palombo, on the other side, they have no international experience at all... but they are as cool as ice!!! there's no way those 3 guys can crack under pressure. absolutely no way.
and the second point is, some of the guys who were written off by lippi actually do have international experience. miccoli probably played more champions league matches than many of lippi's protegeès. balzaretti too played in champions league; and it wasn't even a single experience (we're talking about 3 seasons playing in champions league).
when capello brought balzaretti to juve, many juve fans i knew were concerned. they were worried by his lack of experience, by the fact he had never played for a top club before, so they didn't know if he was good enough to play along gods like thuram, cannavaro and zambrotta......... he turned out to be the one of the most reliable players in juventus during those 2 seasons. by the end of his first season as a juve player he was an unquestionable starter in juventus defensive line. he played 28 matches in the first season, then 40 the following season. he even scored a few goals and had 2 monster performances in champions league against bayern and werder (if i remember right).
ask any juve fan and they'll tell u how pissed off they were when juve sold balzaretti.
so yes, long story short, being used to play on the big stage and for important trophies is one of many factors which comes into play, when u have to consider the mental coolness of a player (but not even the most important factor, as your personality is much more important than your experience in this department, as i proved when i mentioned totti and compared him with less experienced players like rossi, pazzini or palombo).
but balzaretti did play on the big stage. he did play champions league matches and he did play for a top club.
actually he played for the very same top club (juve) his role contender is playing for (grosso)... and funnily he played for juve much, much better than grosso did.
so that can't be a valid reason to pick grosso ahead of balzaretti either.
Classifica dei marcatori della Serie A - Wikipedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Current_sport.svg" class="image"><img alt="Current sport.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Current_sport.svg/48px-Current_sport.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/ac/Current_sport.svg/48px-Current_sport.svg.png
those numbers really speak for themselves. the only players who scored more goals than him are retired (wich means it took an entire carreer to those legends to score all those goals).... the only still active players ahead of him in that chart are all over 34 years old (totti, del piero, crespo and inzaghi). gilardino is still 27 and if he will keep scoring at his current goals per season average, he will be ahead of all of em by the time he's 33!!!
actually it's even more impressive than this. gila has a 16 goals per season average right now. if he would keep going like this he would be the 3rd best scorer in serie a's history, by the time he's 33 (wich means he will still be 1 year younger than totti is right now by the time he'll reach such a stunning achievement).
but let's not be this optimistic. let's imagine that, from next season on, he will score each season 3 goals less than the previous season. that would be an unrealistc average, of course as that would mean he will score just 3 goals per season when he'll be 32 (and i don't think any of us believes he will score only 3 goals in an entire season when he'll be 32)..
well, even by this ridiculously low goals per season average, he would still have 178 goals on his curriculum by the time he's 33 years old.... that would make him the 10th best scorer in serie a's history. that would already put him ahead of players like vieri (142 goals), inzaghi (153), riva (156), boninsegna and del piero!!!
and even if we don't go that far, even if we stick to his current position, he's already scored more than shevchenko, vialli, rivera, trezeguet, mazzola.... and he's still 27.
there's really no questioning gilardino.
btw i'm not saying this to make the point he should be our starter. in my ideal starting 11 pazzini would be the starting cf (as gila had a bad form in the second half of this season). i'm just writing this to remark how hugely underrated gilardino is.
ohh, i see. so u weren't talking about quality but about mental coolness. now i get it. yeah, that's a valid point indeed. when u line up unexperienced players there's always a chance they might crack under the pressure and screw everything up. but then again, what is our alternative? we have 2 options, from where i sit.
1 - display a defensive line with grosso and zambrotta on the sides and cannavaro on the centre. then put gattuso at midfield. we already know what this means, right? coz we already saw it last year in confederations cup.... and this time chances are the situation is gonna be even worse, as cannavaro and grosso faced a staggering downfall this season.
2 - pick the best players this season has to offer and line them up as starters, regardless their lack of experience. maybe they'll panic, maybe they won't. the only thing we know is what will happen if we go for the "old glories"... coz we already tried that. i'd take my chances with the youngsters rather than face a certain failure with the experienced champions.
besides there are some things we should also consider.
first of, coolness it's not always related to experience. totti has loads of experience, he's close to the end of his carreer, and he's played international matches and champions league matches for about 12 years now. did experience turn him into a "mentally composed" player? absolutely not. he's everything but cool. then let's take giuseppe rossi for instance. he has very little experience, compared to totti. but that kid has more balls than talent (and he has quite a lot of talent). he's carried on his shoulders parma and dragged the team out of the relegation zone (almost on his own). i still remember the look on his face when he kicked that penalty that saved parma from relegation. it was unreal. rossi was the youngest player in that team... he was the newcomer, he wasn't supposed to lead the team in such a stressing situation (with all the respect for champions league, rfu, this kind of pressure just doesn't compare to a match against debreceni or cluj).... and yet he acted like a veteran.
and i'm sure u also remember last year's confederations cup. rossi (along with pirlo and chiellini) was one of the few players who stood out.
so having more experience doesn't necessarily means having a better ability to remain cool. experience infact is just a small factor. it's most about personality. u either got it or u don't. montolivo might become a world class player (and i hope so), but he will always have some problems with his shy low profile attitude, and that's not gonna help him to stay cool in critic situations....totti has all the experience u might want, but all that international experience didn't turn him into a cool player. guys like rossi, pazzini, palombo, on the other side, they have no international experience at all... but they are as cool as ice!!! there's no way those 3 guys can crack under pressure. absolutely no way.
and the second point is, some of the guys who were written off by lippi actually do have international experience. miccoli probably played more champions league matches than many of lippi's protegeès. balzaretti too played in champions league; and it wasn't even a single experience (we're talking about 3 seasons playing in champions league).
when capello brought balzaretti to juve, many juve fans i knew were concerned. they were worried by his lack of experience, by the fact he had never played for a top club before, so they didn't know if he was good enough to play along gods like thuram, cannavaro and zambrotta......... he turned out to be the one of the most reliable players in juventus during those 2 seasons. by the end of his first season as a juve player he was an unquestionable starter in juventus defensive line. he played 28 matches in the first season, then 40 the following season. he even scored a few goals and had 2 monster performances in champions league against bayern and werder (if i remember right).
ask any juve fan and they'll tell u how pissed off they were when juve sold balzaretti.
so yes, long story short, being used to play on the big stage and for important trophies is one of many factors which comes into play, when u have to consider the mental coolness of a player (but not even the most important factor, as your personality is much more important than your experience in this department, as i proved when i mentioned totti and compared him with less experienced players like rossi, pazzini or palombo).
but balzaretti did play on the big stage. he did play champions league matches and he did play for a top club.
actually he played for the very same top club (juve) his role contender is playing for (grosso)... and funnily he played for juve much, much better than grosso did.
so that can't be a valid reason to pick grosso ahead of balzaretti either.
fair enough. then, let's consider the entire carreer of gilardino. when we consider single seasons or international appearances, the scenario is indeed an important factor (scoring in a final certainly doesn't compare to scoring in a summer friendly). but if we consider the entire league carreer of a player, then obviously the scenario gets almost irrilevant and u can get to a proper objective valutation. that's serie a's all time top scorers chartrfu said:
Classifica dei marcatori della Serie A - Wikipedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Current_sport.svg" class="image"><img alt="Current sport.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Current_sport.svg/48px-Current_sport.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/ac/Current_sport.svg/48px-Current_sport.svg.png
those numbers really speak for themselves. the only players who scored more goals than him are retired (wich means it took an entire carreer to those legends to score all those goals).... the only still active players ahead of him in that chart are all over 34 years old (totti, del piero, crespo and inzaghi). gilardino is still 27 and if he will keep scoring at his current goals per season average, he will be ahead of all of em by the time he's 33!!!
actually it's even more impressive than this. gila has a 16 goals per season average right now. if he would keep going like this he would be the 3rd best scorer in serie a's history, by the time he's 33 (wich means he will still be 1 year younger than totti is right now by the time he'll reach such a stunning achievement).
but let's not be this optimistic. let's imagine that, from next season on, he will score each season 3 goals less than the previous season. that would be an unrealistc average, of course as that would mean he will score just 3 goals per season when he'll be 32 (and i don't think any of us believes he will score only 3 goals in an entire season when he'll be 32)..
well, even by this ridiculously low goals per season average, he would still have 178 goals on his curriculum by the time he's 33 years old.... that would make him the 10th best scorer in serie a's history. that would already put him ahead of players like vieri (142 goals), inzaghi (153), riva (156), boninsegna and del piero!!!
and even if we don't go that far, even if we stick to his current position, he's already scored more than shevchenko, vialli, rivera, trezeguet, mazzola.... and he's still 27.
there's really no questioning gilardino.
btw i'm not saying this to make the point he should be our starter. in my ideal starting 11 pazzini would be the starting cf (as gila had a bad form in the second half of this season). i'm just writing this to remark how hugely underrated gilardino is.
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Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Made a WC Azzurri thread; http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1936032#post1936032
Made a WC Azzurri thread; http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1936032#post1936032
Dominic
Serie A
- 19 August 2003
Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
Milanista, any ideas on who will replace Leonardo? Who would you like to see?
@Ben My eleven for Italy(If I could select anyone):
Buffon
Maggio ????? Chiellini Balz/Cris
De Rossi Pirlo Marchisio
Cassano Miccoli
Gilardino
Based on Lippi's selection, considering the somewhat fantasyless front; i'd go for crossing Gallore.
Buffon
Maggio ????? Chiellini Criscito
Camoranesi De Rossi Pir/March Di Natale
Gilardino Iaquinta
Whats yours?
P.S. I would've taken neither of Gattuso and Nocerino
Milanista, any ideas on who will replace Leonardo? Who would you like to see?
@Ben My eleven for Italy(If I could select anyone):
Buffon
Maggio ????? Chiellini Balz/Cris
De Rossi Pirlo Marchisio
Cassano Miccoli
Gilardino
Based on Lippi's selection, considering the somewhat fantasyless front; i'd go for crossing Gallore.
Buffon
Maggio ????? Chiellini Criscito
Camoranesi De Rossi Pir/March Di Natale
Gilardino Iaquinta
Whats yours?
P.S. I would've taken neither of Gattuso and Nocerino
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