Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Btw, that Lavezzi goal was really nicely worked. Straight off the training ground.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Interesting statistic I just read about Milan's age when we played Cagliari a week or 2 ago.

Amelia 28; Abate 24, Bonera 29, T. Silva 26, Antonini 28; Strasser 20, Seedorf 34, Rino 33; Robinho 26; Pato 21, Ibra 29

Take Gattuso off and put in Flamini, and that's another player in his mid 20s, so are Boateng and Sokratis.. Emanuelson is 24, Cassano is 28. We're not as old as some people think.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Yep, it's a 6 month contract. Seedorf, Gattuso, Flamini and Boateng are injured, so it was quite a last minute signing. I assume it's cheap too, since his contract was going off soon.

So now we've signed Cassano for nothing, Van Bommel for nothing, and Emanuelson for something like £2m. Not bad - I think we will sign Mexes too.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Ben, funny you were talking about Udinese and their own style of football.
As you know well, i'm an avid listener of the Guardian's football podcast.
Yesterday James Richardson (somebody who lived in Italy and knows Italian football very well) that in his opinion, Udinese is one of the most attractive playing teams in Europe, if not the most attractive team.
What are your thoughts about this?
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Milanista said:
Yep, it's a 6 month contract. Seedorf, Gattuso, Flamini and Boateng are injured, so it was quite a last minute signing. I assume it's cheap too, since his contract was going off soon.

So now we've signed Cassano for nothing, Van Bommel for nothing, and Emanuelson for something like £2m. Not bad - I think we will sign Mexes too.
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Give Galliani a couple of bucks and he'll sign the world, has always been so.

Good job yellow tie, good job indeed.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Van Bommel's joining the only club where he could (nearly) be below the average age of the rest of the starting eleven :) . He's a good player but I don't know if his game will suit Serie A.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

cfdh_edmundo said:
Van Bommel's joining the only club where he could (nearly) be below the average age of the rest of the starting eleven :) . He's a good player but I don't know if his game will suit Serie A.
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Actually he's the oldest with Super Mario Yepes.:))

You've been confusing the two Milan teams, broski.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

gerd said:
Ben, funny you were talking about Udinese and their own style of football.
As you know well, i'm an avid listener of the Guardian's football podcast.
Yesterday James Richardson (somebody who lived in Italy and knows Italian football very well) that in his opinion, Udinese is one of the most attractive playing teams in Europe, if not the most attractive team.
What are your thoughts about this?
Click to expand...

From what I've seen Udinese is certainly one of the most attractive teams. No surprise in here, having Sanchez and Di Natale in the same side the quality is guaranteed. They totally outplayed Inter last Sunday.

Pablo Armero surprised me a lot. I used to watch him at Palmeiras and he always seemed to me nothing more than a normal player but I must admit he had a fantastic journey last week.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

lo zio said:
bundi too is slightly more competitive than serie a imo (although serie a is seriously closing the gap with ligue un and bundesliga on this department).

actually you're right, napoli has 40 pts, not 38.... but everything else remains the same... from the 3rd (roma 38 pts) to the 8th (udinese 33 pts) there is a 5 points gap.
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as for la liga, yeah, we're probably better than la liga on the "competitiveness department" right now, but that obviously doesn't mean serie a is better than liga overall.... there's so much more than competitiveness to look for in a league (atmosphere, football quality, tactical variety and so on).

plus u have to take into account that this barca side is probably the greatest football team of the "sacchi era"..... infact this barca side is probably the only team wich managed to reach the same level of "almost perfection" of sacchi's milan. the blaugrana would destroy the competition in every european league (although they wouldn't win every match by such a huge goal margin here in italy). and as for madrid, they're one of the very best top teams in europe. they've spent an enourmous ammount of money over the last 2 years (and that's obviously paying off).... plus mourinho is doing an excelllent job......... actually excellent isn't quite enough (i believe what he's doing in madrid right now is the best job in his carreer).

and finally there's probably the most important factor to consider. the spanish game knows no strategy at all. the mere idea of "adjusting your gameplan according to your opponent" is sacrilegious in spain.
spanish consider football as some sort of a showcase. u have to display your own football and prove it better.... trying to neutralize your opponent with any sort of tactical adjustment is conceived as a "loser attitude"... an "unfair way to achieve victory".
every sunday, every team goes on the pitch and plays "his football".... now there's nothing wrong with that. actually that's great, as it gives the league variety...... but the problem is, that's all they care about... playing their own football, without changing anything, no matter which team they're facing. but when u only care about playing your game.... and u play it the same way every week, then the best team will always inevitably win, there's no chance u'll see an upset.

look at udinese or parma. they have their very own football identity, and they do play "their own" football every week. however it's never the exact same parma or udinese that u get to see on the pitch. every week there's something slightly different (from a tactical point of view)... variations on a same theme.
the udinese team we saw against inter was slightly different from the udinese we saw against fiorentina. the parma team we saw against juve was slightly different from last week parma....it's obviously still "parma's football", the big picture is always the same, but every week u can notice small (but decisive) adjustements based on the opponent's gameplan.

at the end of the day, tactic is what allows upsets. tactic is what allows the davids (like parma and udinese) to beat the goliaths (like inter or milan).
la liga is like a drag race. if u have more brakehorse power, u will inevitably win. whereas serie a is more like formula 1 (it's not just about having the best car, but also about having the best strategy).

so yes, there sure is a big gap between the top 2 and the other teams in spain. but that's not the main difference between serie a and liga. the main difference (imo) is that italian midclass teams try to "think of something" to compensate this gap every week, while spanish midclass teams usually don't.
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Spot on and something i actually find amazing about Italians. The before game for them must be something ridiculous, in a studying and analysing point of view. The staff of each manager must work their ass off just for that single game. Analysing it as if it was a final. Thats exactly what i see from you guys week after week. Something that is also interesting to watch is when the other team studies the other side carefully and then they come to the pitch with a different strategy then they expected and therefore have to adjust to it or else they lose the game. This as been quite common around Italy, that element of surprise that you guys add with the "will they play the same way or will they change?" makes it so much more interesting.

Another thing that you guys are fantastic and which amazes me the most is your ability to not lose your pose and concentration even when you don't have the ball. Your off the ball defensive movement, your positioning, the concentration and composure you have is superb. Its something that really makes me wow. That sure must be characteristic of your history as the "catennaccio guys". lol Because no other team does that in Europe, even a small team in Italy makes it to perfection and yet a top side in England or Spain can't do it well without conceding 1 goal. Defensive whise you are simply outstanding, no wonder that when you add to that a fantasista and some puntas that know how to work the ball you have 50% done to win the scudetto. Like Inter did last year and Milan seems about to this season.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Hey there said:
Actually he's the oldest with Super Mario Yepes.:))

You've been confusing the two Milan teams, broski.
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A quick glance would suggest otherwise:

Also 33: Abbiati, Ambrosini, Zambrotta, Jankulovski, Gattuso

Older than 33: As you pointed out Yepes (35), Oddo (34), Nesta (34), Seedorf (34), Inzaghi (37), Flavio Roma (36).

But yeah it's a very young team apart from those players.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Well apparently Inter have the oldest first-team squad in Europe (29.61 years), so Hey there might have a point.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

oh come on edmundo! that's an extremely misleading post (and i'm sure u know that). the players u mentioned are bench warmers.... actually some of them don't even sit on the bench on sunday.

everyone knows inzaghi is a backup in milan today...and he has been for quite a few years now. according to wikipedia oddo played only 2 matches this season! and jankulovski played 1 single game!!! zambrotta played 13 matches, and i'm quite sure none of them as a starter. yepes was signed as a backup, a "utility player" for when nesta gets injured..... and as for nesta, well he might be 34 but name 1 team in europe where a fit nesta woudn't be an unquestionable starter (seriously i challenge u to do that!).
and are u seriously mentioning Flavio Roma (milan's 3rd gk) to prove the point that milan is an old team??? really? i mean should we even consider roma as part of the team??? according to wikipiedia he's played only twice with a milan shirt... only 2 matches ever since he was signed by milan (2 seasons ago).... and u're using him to establish milan's average age...... that's hardly fair :P
and finally u can't use a 33 years old goalkeeper (abbiati) to increase milan's average age, as each role has different standards. a 33 years old forward is old, a 33 years old midfielder is old, a 33 years old defender is not necessarily old and a 33 years old goalkeeper is absolutely NOT old!!!

if u really wanna figure out how old\young this milan team is, then pick the real milan team. nesta (34), thiago silva (26), abate (24), antonini (28), gattuso (33), flamini (26), pirlo (31), ambrosini (33), boateng (23), seedorf (34), pato (21), ibra (29), strasser (20), robinho (27), cassano (28).
this is by all means NOT an old team. actually milan has probably one of the youngest defensive lines among the top teams in europe..... and certainly one of the youngest offensive setups.
neoexodus said:
Spot on and something i actually find amazing about Italians. The before game for them must be something ridiculous, in a studying and analysing point of view. The staff of each manager must work their ass off just for that single game. Analysing it as if it was a final.
Something that is also interesting to watch is when the other team studies the other side carefully and then they come to the pitch with a different strategy then they expected and therefore have to adjust to it or else they lose the game. This as been quite common around Italy, that element of surprise that you guys add with the "will they play the same way or will they change?" makes it so much more interesting.
Another thing that you guys are fantastic and which amazes me the most is your ability to not lose your pose and concentration even when you don't have the ball. Your off the ball defensive movement, your positioning, the concentration and composure you have is superb. Its something that really makes me wow. That sure must be characteristic of your history as the "catennaccio guys
Click to expand...
all very good points, and yes, all those factors come straight from our conception of the game (just like catenaccio).
like i said, spanish consider football as an "artistic essay" (you have to prove "your art is better"), in the spanish conception of the game, the single match is just a tool to prove their point, a scenario where they can show their better ability and supremacy.... the italian conception of the game is completely different.

for the italians, the single match is not just a tool, an instrument to prove a point, a way to reach a purpose or a scenario to display their art..... for the italians the single game is all it matters! for the italians there's no bigger purpose in football, u don't have to prove any supremacy.... u just have to win a single match.
even the approach is different; while english and spanish tend to focus more onthe big picture (the "season", the league table), for the italians "season" is an abstract concept, and they also disavow any knowledge of the league table (and i'm serious here.... ask any italian coach about his team position in the league table and they will all reply the same way... "i don't know. i don't even bother watching the table. i don't care about that. the only thing i care is our next opponent, our next match"). for the italians the league, the season, is just a "series of single matches". they have a completely different perspective. the single games are what matters, not the final results (the season, the table league).

it might seem just a silly irrilevant difference in the way italians approach football, but actually it makes all the difference.
because u see, if a league is nothing but a series of single matches and if all that matters is the single match (each of them), well since every match implies a different challenge (because u face a different opponent every time), then u have to change your tactical approach every time according to the opponent u'll face.

to sum that up, we might say that the spanish school is a bit dogmatic; they believe there's an universal formula to win football games. that's why they don't strategize; because in the spanish school, a coach's duty is not to win single games... it's to find out that "sacred formula". winning will just be a natural consequence, once u found that formula.
the italian are absolutely non dogmatic instead. they believe there's no such thing as a universal formula to play football. there's not a superior truth to discover. each team has its own formula (according to the abilities and weaknesses of its players). and that formula will only work for that team alone. udinese plays some beautiful counter-attacking football. they are indeed very fun to watch (and effective). but that's only their formula, it works with udinese, it won't work with every other team. if u have palermo playing udinese's football, the result will be a disaster (the same way udinese wouldn't be able to play palermo's football as well as palermo does).

and moreover, like u said, having a tactical formula doesn't mean u're gonna play the very same script each and every week. each team adapts and modifies its own tactical formula every week... for 2 reasons.
1- to adjust it to the opponent team distinctive features.
2- to prevent the opponent from strategizing against u (by not giving him any specific tactical benchmark or formula to strategize against).

now, when u look at it this way, the italian school might seem better..... but it's not that easy. because even though all the italian points are valid - there's no bigger purpose in football; there's not an universal truth, a "right way" to play football (as opposed to a supposedly "wrong way"); it's all about single matches: the tactic has to adjust to each opponent - even if theese are all very valid points, this logic brought us to a very bad conclusion.
think of that.... the spanish school had a very shortsighted starting point, and never really changed. "there's only one way to play football. every other way is dirty, is unfair, is "anti-football".
the italians on the other side, moved on from a very non-dogmatic, open minded point "there's not an universal truth in football. every coach has to study the game to find the most appropriate formula for his own team".

that brought us many good things.
- our coaches developed a passion for "studying the game", they got to know football better than anyone else. they built the so called "university of football" (Coverciano);
- then they taught football to their players (it doesn matter how well the coach knows the game... the players are the ones who have to apply his ideas, so they have to know everything he knows), and that created generation of players with an unimmaginable knowledge and understanding of the game (hence our player's great positioning, tactical awareness, sense of rhythm and timing).
- we developed generations of hugely talented and skilled offensive players, as our mezze punte, our fantasistas and our trequartista had to get used to work in very tight spaces, against the most skilled defensive lines in the world.

but it also brought us 1 single bad consequence..... wich is more important than all those "good aspects" i mentioned before. our footall became boring and outdated.
the beginning of the evolution of the italian school was completely different from the spanish one. the spanish mentality was dogmatic and shortsighted, while we were more open minded. (there's no universal truth or formula in football).
but at the end of that long tactical-pondering process, we eventually got to the real essence of football; the simplest, most effortless way to win: a 1-0 result.
so at the end of our study, we eventually found out that the spanish were (almost) right, that there actually is a "golden formula", a tactical eldorado, a way to get a win wich is more simple and effective of all the others: and that's how catenaccio was born.

so at the end of this long studying process (a study wich began with a very open minded approach), the italian coaches resolved to play catenaccio..... all of them. we eventually became more dogmatic, more shortsighted than anyone else in the world.
the catenaccio became our "universal truth". and indeed catenaccio is the closest u'll get to a perfect tactical formula. but that doesn't make it the best formula.

because, u see, what we didn't realise is that football isn't just a sport, it's also a show, an event. the result isn't the only thing that matters. the quality of the football (the "entertaining aspect") is just as important. because a more entertaining football attracts more fans and increase your appeal. more fans equals more money.... and more money means better chance to sign high quality players.
also the appeal of your football will attract more easily high quality players.

so playing some high quality and entertaining football is as important as playing an effective football.
but since we were too focused on mastering our "ultimate tactical formula" we didn't realise that.
our league became the most boring in europe. the goal per games ratio became the lowest in europe and since all our teams were playing the same kind of football, there was no tactical variety anymore. that was probably the darkest moment in italian football.
then sacchi came and saved us all :))

sorry for the longest post :P
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

little off topic.
me said:
like i said, i just can't find a logic in this.... and i also can't understand how theese people manage to mantain their jobs! infact that's probably the biggest mistery of them all.
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just heard andy gray got fired..... man, am i a jinx or what!!!:DD
good riddance however. it's ridiculous to label this tool as a football pundit.
i'm just a football fan with no specific football knwledge at all. i haven't been a professional football player, neither i had any sort of specific football education.... yet i'm fairly sure i understand the game much better than this idiot (wich really says it all about his football knowledge).
moreover, despite not being an english native speaker, i'm also fairly confident my english is much better than his :P
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Any chance you could explain Sacchi's impact on the Italian game, Ben? He was before my time so would be interesting to read your take on him.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

u got a pm abou ;)

stef, milan-samp is on today. i just realised if milan wins this round, we'll play each others in the semifinals :)

like all italians, i'm not really bothered by coppa italia at all, but i must admit, it would be nice to win a trophy for once :P
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I'd only really watch to see Emanuelson and Van Bommel ben - but I actually want to win this trophy. I know people make fun of it, but I want to win. It's an extra touch and it's always nice to win a trophy.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

That was a fantastic read, Ben, really appreciate that. It's funny how important some of the concepts Sacchi brought to the table are ingrained in the modern interpretation of football and second nature to many football fans, and yet a large majority of them probably know very little about Sacchi.

He's very similar to Lobanovskyi in how he interpreted the "team unit" rather than eleven different individuals. The interaction and connection between the players was given higher regard than the actual individuals themselves.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

It seems the Coppa is having more attention this year than the previous ones, or maybe just the milan fans. Treble is a target now. :D Anyway Thiago Silva has all it takes to become an awesome defensive midfielder. Ancelotti talked in the past about it and now Allegri experimented it in preseason and is implemeting it now step by step.

Another thing, why are Sampdoria selling so much good players. Now, Pazzini is on the way out and Ziegler is moving to Lazio.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I think it might be the CL effect because they failed to qualify..... I heard Emanuelson's doing a good job - setting up the first goal.

Edit- sexy goal by Pato. Nutmegged the defender.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

He just passed to Pato and Pato did all the work. Sampdoria have no chance today.

EDIT - Oh well you never know.

btw, van Bommel is giving directions to players like he has been at the team for years.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Nice game, I wasn't expecting it to be somewhat interesting let alone exciting.

I really liked Van Bommel, great experience and great substance, really dominating the midfield.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Very fun game to watch! Great news guys!!!!! Milan bought Parma's half of Paloschi. He's definitely coming back this summer - I'm certain. He now moves to Genoa, but I'm sure it was a favour to Preziozi and also one hand on Criscito.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

This must be some kind of bizarre alternate universe in which AC Milan is capable to make good signings.
If this is so, don't wake me up, I'm somewhat enjoying this.
Or probably they're doing it merely to have a massive team on PES, can't exclude that option.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Not the best finish. :P But great nutmeg and Urby had to hussle a little too before the pass so he does deserve the assist.

p.s. Great series of posts as usual Ben. :)
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Aboutreika18 said:
...It's funny how important some of the concepts Sacchi brought to the table are ingrained in the modern interpretation of football and second nature to many football fans, and yet a large majority of them probably know very little about Sacchi.
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it's always like that with people who make history (in every department). everybody knows them but just a few know what they actually did to become immortal legends.
even though only a few people, and what's most funny, probably also a few coaches (at least outside italy), realise how deep was sacchi's impact on modern football, most of them still acknowledge him as the "father of today's football".
as for your Lobanovskyi reference, thats indeed a good one. asked about whether he had any teachers or inspirations, sacchi once replied he didn't have any, but that, if there would have been no michels, liedholm and lobanovskyi before him, his job would have been much more difficult.
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so it'll be palermo-milan :) shame napoli lost at the penalties yesterday. it would have been coll to have 2 top teams clashing against 2 midclass teams in the semis.
btw pato's goal per matches ratio is simply unreal.... him and balotelli almost make pazzini look like a "normal" player.
milanista said:
I actually want to win this trophy. I know people make fun of it, but I want to win. It's an extra touch and it's always nice to win a trophy.
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yeah me too stef. i mean, once u get so close to a final, it doesn't really matter if it's a lousy coppa italia or a champion league... nobody gives up to the chance of winning a trophy once u're so close.
besides if we would actually win it (wich is not gonna be an easy task, given the quality of the other contenders), that would be the first trophy in palermo's history!! LOL!!! we are soo small time!
btw do u know when the semifinals will take place?

as for the palermo-parma clash, i gotta say i'm surprised by parma. i knew they were good, but i didn't realise they were this good. they fielded many backups (they actually have much more depth than palermo), they were playing in palermo, and yet they came out with a very good performance. and it's not like palermo wasn't trying hard enough. we had pretty much all our starters playing, and they were all in "playstation mode" (that's how we call it when delio rossi has his guys playing like they were barcelona :P ). very impressive stuff from parma. :) oh and btw pastore was sick!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcTz2yhlybs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDWXG1epBhk
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Some big transfers/rumors today:

Pazzini headed to Inter for 12m + Biabiany.
Rosina to Cesena (Cesena's signings have been pretty solid!)
Ruiz to Napoli for 6m + Datolo
Criscito to Milan - I think the Paloschi deal has something to do with this
Barzagli to Juve (seems done)

I feel that Pazzini will be wasted at Inter. They have Diegol, Eto'o and Pandev.... I wonder if Pazzo will get space to play. I really hope he stays at Samp, because he has potential to be a goal machine (he already is) that will score 20 a season.
 
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