Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

[ClassicD]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Roma, it's all about Roma - the Serie A side I love the most. Hopefully big Tommy DiBenedetto will chuck some money at the side in the summer to replace Mexes and probably half the starting 11, god knows they need replaced!

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

.

Anyway, I think we can post our formation of the season now. Many stand out players and some huge improvements this season. The amount of talent present in all Serie A teams just stands out IMO. Here is mine:

----------------Handanovic-------------------
Maggio----Nesta-------Silva--------Balzaretti
---------Inler---Hernanes---Boateng----------
--------Sanchez-----Eto'o----Di Natale-------

Great season also for: Abbiati,Storari,Lavezzi,Cavani,Cannavaro,Abate,Armero,Nagatomo...

Mine would be rather similar:

--------------------De Sanctis (Napoli)----------------------
---------------------------------------------------------
Abate (Milan)-------Nesta (Milan)---Silva (Milan)------Balzaretti (Palermo)
--------------------------------------------------------
----------Giaccherini (Cesena)--Hernanes (Lazio)--Boateng(Milan)------
---------------------------------------------------------
----------Eto'o (Inter)------Cavani (Napoli)---Di Natale/Sanchez (Udinese)
---------------------------------------------------------

Others:
Abbiati, Armero, Asamoah, Handanovic, Storari, Totti, Parolo, Migliaccio (THIS GUY IS A MACHINE), Robinho.... there are too many.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

aah, the seasonal top 11! i love theese things here's mine

--------------------------------abbiati--------------------------
----cassani-----------silva------------ranocchia----------balzaretti
---------------------------------------------------------------
-------------asamoah--------hernanes-------nocerino---------
-----------------------------------------------------------
------------------sanchez-------------------------------------
-------------------------cavani---------di natale

GK: storari, de sanctis and abbiati have all been absolutely stunning all season long. but i had to pick one so i chose abbiati coz he won the scudetto.

RB: this is a tough call. cassani hasn't been as consistant as last year. he's played on his standards only for half a season.... from jannuary on he has been on a very poor form... maicon hasn't been on his standards for the entire season. maggio has been a little more consistant than cassani, but also a little less good and decisive. rafinha has been extremely unconsistant. abate has grown hugely and has been the most consistant right back in the league. huge improvement for him, but he still has a long way to go reach cassani's standards imo. anyway it should be one beteween cassani, maggio and abate (and being a palermitano i obviously picked cassani).

CB: no arguments on silva. as for nesta, i disagree with u guys. he's been very good but "human". he's had some average games, he's made some mistakes, and although that would be absolutely normal for almost any other player in the world, it isn't for nesta. there are great players, there are world class players... and then there are gods. buffon, nesta, xavi, messi... their standards are so ridiculously high that anything less than spectacular becomes a failure. 30 goals in a season would be a great result for any world class forward... but it would be a disappointing result for messi; 50 misplaced passes in a season would be an astonishing achievement for any regista, but not for xavi. this season, for the very first time in his carreer, nesta has shown his age. mind u, it's no big deal, at 35 years he still is one of the 8\10 best cbs in europe (wich is crazy)... but performance wise i wouldn't say he's been among the best in serie a this season. cannavaro junior has been on great standards all season long, aswell as campagnaro. but i'm gonna go for ranocchia. he was hugely impressive. he had to deal with several challenges this season. new team, for the first time in a top club, huge expectations (especially after the amazing season he had last year). and that's just the start. despite being handled by a tactical nutcase like leonardo, despite being paired up with terrible partners like chivu and cordoba (because of the long injuries of lucio and samuel), he handled himself brilliantly, showing the composure and the confidence of a veteran

midfield: hernanes and nocerino had an amazing season. no surprise for nocerino (who has been playing on great standards for 3 seasons now). hernanes instead was a big and great surprise. asamoah has performed even better than last year.... wich is quite an achievement, as he was STUNNING last season. a real gem of a player.

trequartista: i didn't line up any trequartista at all, coz none of em deserved it. hamsik has been very consistant, but he hasn't been as good and decisive as the likes of menez, boateng and pastore. menez, boateng and pastore have been sensational, but unconsistant.
boateng has been great, but injuries stopped him for too long. besides, as great as he was, pastore and menez just belong to another level.
menez has been absolutely fantastic, right until he broke up with the club. what a shame, he could be one of the best players in the world if he weren't such an idiot.
pastore has been in "god-mode" till xmas. then from jannuary to march, when the entire squad fell apart, he had a form-drop aswell. from april to now he's been almost as good as usual, but that's not enough to pick him. mind u this still was an amazing season for pastore, as he had to face much more challenges than last year. this season every coach he played against strategised against him... and every defender knew his movements.... so when u take into account that, this was a great season for him.
actually there are 2 trequartista who might deserve a spot in that formation; mauri and cossu. but having already 3 strikers upfront, adding a trequartista would have made the lineup unrealistic.

strikers: pazzini would really deserve a spot there. he's been on fire ever since he joined inter.... but cavani has been on fire all season, and sanchez and di natale are absolutely unquestionable in that formation, so...

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

It's all about how you handle it. CL can damage you more than it helps if you focus too much. I just read Schalke grew a close 100 mill debt to compete in the CL and they are out of it next season.

yeah, i heard they have financial problems too. that is so weird. they have their own stadium (wich is btw, one of the very best stadia in europe), a pretty solid fanbase and a huge sponsor like gazprom. how did they get in trouble? besides german teams are known for their ability in taking care of the financial aspect of the management.
i even hear they don't have enough money to fix the roof of the stadium (wich was damaged by snow this winter). that's odd.

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

It's official, Pirlo's gone! He just said it on Sky Sport. Thanks for your services Andrea, really really great and important player for us.

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Damn! I am very pissed right now. He is too good to let go.

 

[Hey there]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Damn! I am very pissed right now. He is too good to let go.

He doesn't fit Milan gameplay anymore, as Allegri has found balance in a muscular midfield.
If he was 8 years younger and more dynamic it would have been a real shame, but as he is now it's better for him to leave.
P.S. That doesn't mean I'm happy he's gone, he's my favourite italian player and I even have a couple of Pirlo shirts at home :/

 

[Neoexodus]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

More dynamic? What? A player like Pirlo can play at any age, he isn't a winger that needs speed or anything to play well he just needs confidence and that can easily be achieved with a good coach. Besides confidence, he just needs a team built around him (like Barcelona with Xavi), if he has them both he could be 40 and still be on the top5 best midfielders in the world.

Come on Marrotta, please get him and Giovinco!

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

He doesn't fit Milan gameplay anymore, as Allegri has found balance in a muscular midfield.
If he was 8 years younger and more dynamic it would have been a real shame, but as he is now it's better for him to leave.
P.S. That doesn't mean I'm happy he's gone, he's my favourite italian player and I even have a couple of Pirlo shirts at home :/

I am totally aware of that but Pirlo is a very special player. He is at a level that no other Italian midfielder now might reach, maybe Aquilani. At the last WC, he was fielded for a single half and you can see how he made a huge diffrence, miles ahead of Montolivo.

I don't know. He was very dynamic in the cup match against Palermo when fielded in a wider role but sure he lacks the physical strength Allegri might be looking for. Real shame to see him leave for me and I don't feel offering him a 1 year extension was a right thing to do. He is 31 not 35. Anyway, wish him the best of luck wherever he goes. You got yourself quite a player Juve.

Inzaghi extended which was huge for me.

 

[Valon]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

--------------------------------abbiati--------------------------
----cassani-----------silva------------ranocchia----------balzaretti
---------------------------------------------------------------
-------------asamoah--------hernanes-------nocerino---------
-----------------------------------------------------------
------------------sanchez-------------------------------------
-------------------------cavani---------di natale

great formation just im not agree about ranocchia i think he didnt have a great season for be in top 11 of the year !

I love atack with sanchez , di natale and Cavani this players was one bad dream for defenders !

Inzaghi extended which was huge for me.

PIPO MIO hahah i hope to see him again playing I really miss watching him even if i hate Milan as a team !

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

He doesn't fit Milan gameplay anymore, as Allegri has found balance in a muscular midfield.
If he was 8 years younger and more dynamic it would have been a real shame, but as he is now it's better for him to leave.

i agree with your first statement mate. not with the second. dynamism has nothing to do with this (neither does age, as van bommel is older than pirlo). van bommel isn't more "dynamic" than pirlo. and milan as a team won't be more dynamic with van bommel instead of pirlo.
is van bommel faster than pirlo? no
is van bommel more agile than pirlo? oh boy, no!
does van bommel have better acceleration than pirlo? no way.
and, the most important question when it comes to dynamism (i said it before, the dynamism of a team doesn't depend on the physical skills of the players but on how well they get the ball moving)... is van bommel a more accurate passer than pirlo? well i guess i don't have to answer that question.

so by swapping pirlo with van bommel, milan has gained absolutely nothing in terms of dynamism (quite the opposite infact). it has only gained in protection, in filter at midfield, in "muscles". there's no doubt that 3 defensive midfielders offer more protection than 2 defensive midfielders and a regista.
is that what u'd call a balanced midfield setup? well, in theory no. 2 DMs and a regista is more balanced than 3 DMs on paper, there's no way around this. but in milan's case this solution actually does look pretty balanced.

i believe the main point here is that allegri realised something very important about this milan team.... it's not pirlo the problem..... it's the rest of the team.
milan just can't take advantage of a player like pirlo, because milan's offensive players don't fancy off the ball movement.
we said it many times, u may have the greatest regista in the world, he will be bloody useless if you don't provide him targets who do their part of the job and try to get rid of their markings. and milan's offensive players never do that. they like to play the ball, they like to get the ball on their feet and not on the run. and they're all like this.... ibra, seedorf, pato, robinho, cassano (boateng is the only exception). with theese players a regista is just useless.

what makes a regista a special player is his vision, sense of rhythm and passing accuracy. a regista can set the tempo for the entire team, he can pass the ball with extreme accuracy.... wich means he can pass the ball to almost every player on the pitch, at any moment, regardless of how far his target is or of how much pressing the regista himself has to deal with..... but he can only pass the ball to an available target! if nobody makes himself available, then there's nothing the regista can do.
the regista has a natural ability to scan the pitch and find the best way to develop a play (wich is what we call "vision")...... but if your teammates stand still and just wait for the ball, then u might aswell have "neo" from the matrix in the regista's position and he will still be useless.

allegri is not the kind of coach who values muscles over quality. conti was the key player in his cagliari, and conti is a pure regista. but he realised this milan is very different from his cagliari.... once he realised that he had to choose.
- change the entire team to suit pirlo;
- or change pirlo and swap him with a more useful player for the rest of the team.

the answer is pretty obvious. milan's offensive players don't do off the ball movement and don't track back. so i might aswell drop the regista (wich is useless) and line up another muscular player, to cope with the lazyness of my offensive players.
that's why an absolutely unbalanced midfield setup (3 defenensive midfielders) can actually become the most balanced solution in this particular case. van bommell gives more "beef" to milan's midfield and relieves the likes of ibra, robinho and pato from any defensive duty.

and that's the reason why i don't blame allegri for letting pirlo go. he just decided what's best for his team and probably would have preferred to hold pirlo as a "situation player". but obviously a player like pirlo could never accept a non-starter role.... not at his age anyway (31). and that's why pirlo and milan decided to say goodbye to each others.

this all sounds very reasonable.... but like i said a few weeks ago, not having pirlo will cause milan a whole new set of problems and the rossoneri will have really a hard time facing some specific kind of opponents next season (unless they get themselves another top notch regista).

so now we know why those rumours about juve not willing to pay 16 millions for aquilani came up a few weeks ago. this all thing was already decided. pirlo was gonna join juve and that obviously meant there was no space for aquilani anymore.
i'm surprised i hadn't realised it before. that was the only possible explanation. i mean, aquilani certainly didn't have his best season this year, but for 16 millions euros he still was too much of a bargain to let go. having a chance to grab pirlo for free was the only possible better alternative.

great formation just im not agree about ranocchia i think he didnt have a great season for be in top 11 of the year !

yeah there are several questionable calls in my lineup. some might prefere cannavaro to ranocchia or inler to nocerino or pazzini to cavani or abate to cassani.
but that's the beauty of theese top 11s afterall... everyone can come up with his own personal picks

 

[Hey there]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Well, the point is that Van Bommel actually "stole" the place from Ambrosini, not Pirlo. This season Andrea did not play as a deep regista, instead he played as an "interno" à la Iniesta, which already freed him from most defensive duties.
Another thing is that indeed Pirlo doesn't suit Milan's gameplay anymore: As Zio stated, Milan's three strating forwards are not exactly the ideal for a player like Pirlo (even if I have to disagree on a couple of things: Ibra may be considered an asshole in this forum, but boy he does create space and I've never seen a player so good in protecting the ball. And Robinho indeed does defensive duties). Having Ibra that can make the resolutive play well deep in the other team area, Pirlo becomes like a nice painting: I'ts nice to have it, but it doesn't do nothing pratically appealing anymore since the invention of photography. Seedorf, event being older and goin' all Seedorf on the games only 3/4 times for year, guarantees more dynamism and he's more prone in giving short balls to the attackers (he's going to go too this season btw: Who will replace him is a mystery, but that goes with Pirlo too. And Van Bommel).
About the age: My bad, I was thinking about Seedorf while writing: Read 5 years less.
About Montolivo, I just can't understand all the hype on him. Never impressed me, kinda mediocre player. I've seen more outstanding performances from the likes of Liverani (if only he had the physique of a proper football player), Poli and hell, even Cigarini back then.

But of one thing I'm sure: Juve is going to greatly improve its gameplay with Pirlo. And I use colons too much.

P.S. Last news say Milan is on Fabregas. That would be a nice replacement, I'd say.

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I think the main reason why we won't keep Pirlo is Allegri's style of 'press and pass' type of players. We're constantly being linked to these short passing midfielders like Asamoah, Hamsik, Fabregas, Sandro and Essien. These players are very intense but also very good at linking play on the ground. We need players to hold the midfield so our super-star attack can do what they want.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

A bit more "muscle" in their midfield might be what Milan need to stop getting knocked out by more "physical" teams in Europe.

 

[Valon]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

A bit more "muscle" in their midfield might be what Milan need to stop getting knocked out by more "physical" teams in Europe.

+1 just look what happen vs Tottenahm , i dont really see much quality on milan midelfeld , i dont say gattuso boateng or van bomel its bad player but i think there need a quality technique player fabgregas could be good i guess !

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

It's worth mentioning that van Bommel was cup-tied for them in Europe. I think he could have helped squeeze them past Spurs but really a club of Milan's stature, over two legs, should have beaten Spurs comfortably, with or without MvB.

 

[vasilios]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

strikers: pazzini would really deserve a spot there. he's been on fire ever since he joined inter.... but cavani has been on fire all season, and sanchez and di natale are absolutely unquestionable in that formation, so...

I'm not sure what my first 11 would be, as I haven't been able to watch as many matches as I would have liked this year, but I have seen every Inter match, and I don't see any way that Pazzini can be included before Eto'o, even if only taking Serie A matches into consideration. Eto'o is the team's leading goal and assist man and carried that attack by himself for long stretches before Pazzini arrived. With Milito injured and off form most of the year, Eto'o had to take over and has easily been Inter's most valuable player.

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I really rate Eto'o and think he's one of the world's most complete strikers. He has been consistent for years.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

good points hey there and stef. it's definitely a tricky situation, as there's not a real best call on this one. letting pirlo go is going to create some serious problem to milan next year (i believe much more problems than u milanisti seem to think right now), but on the other side this new milan is working like a charm and obviously a player like pirlo can't accept a backup role (as much as milan can't pay 5 millions per year to a non regular starter).

Ibra may be considered an asshole in this forum, but boy he does create space and I've never seen a player so good in protecting the ball. And Robinho indeed does defensive duties). Having Ibra that can make the resolutive play well deep in the other team area, Pirlo becomes like a nice painting: I'ts nice to have it, but it doesn't do nothing pratically appealing anymore since the invention of photography.

We need players to hold the midfield so our super-star attack can do what they want.

i disagree on those points guys. ibra is indeed a sublime player (i do consider him an asshole, but i also consider him one of the most complete offensive players of the last 25 years). but it doesn't matter how good he is... or how good every other milan's offensive player is. u still can't cope with the lack of quality at midfield by displaying more quality in attack. that's just not how it works.

plays are designed at midfield, not in the 3\4. and there's a simple reason for this. the higher up the pitch u go, the smaller becomes the pitch. the higher up the pitch u go, the more pressure u have to deal with.
there is only 1 single scheme in football wich is designed to start from the 3\4 in football (pressing on the defender-ball carrier, steal the ball, pass and shot... it's not even a proper scheme actually). schemes are always built at midfield, and if u don't have someone who can do that, it doesn't matter how many quality players u have upfront.

u might aswell have messi, cristiano ronaldo and maradona upfront... if they aren't supported by at least 1 proper passer at midfield, it becomes relatively easy to neutralize them. all u have to do is shift your defensive line higher up the pitch. by doing this u increase the pressure on the attackers and deprive milan of any depth whatsoever. with this simple adjustment u force milans strikers to drop back, shorten the distance between your defensive line and your midfielders and make it extremely difficult for ibra, robinho, pato and cassano to do their magic.

this way u have milan's forwards having to work in a very tiny space, stepping on their own teammates toes... in a small area crowded with opponents (by decreasing the distance between the defensive line and midfield, the opponent's filter at midfield becomes pretty much a wall).

i know this might sound to u a bit too easy and simplicistic, but trust me, it really is. u milanisti might not be aware of this coz u've always had a regista for the last 10 years, but ask any inter fan, they'll know exactly what i'm on about here.
this has indeed been the major issue of mancini's inter (or ibra's inter, if u like). all inter's major losses in that period came because of this very simple expedient.

and in milan's case this is going to be even more of a problem, coz, even though that inter didn't have a proper regista, they certainly didn't lack good passers and brains at midfield (stanko and cambiasso).... wich can't be said about a flamini-van bommel-gattuso midfield (or a flamini-van bommel-ambrosini midfield).

just by staying there, even without doing anything at all, a regista gives depth to the team. he stretches the pitch and gives his teammates in attack more space to work with with his bare presence. the only way u can achieve this result without a regista is by lining up very offensive sidebacks (on both sides) or by lining up side midfielders.... and u don't have any of theese.

next season coaches will strategize against milan. and it will be much easier than before. u will see many teams facing u with a high defensive line. many teams putting much pressure on your defenders\ball carriers (there won't be pirlo anymore helping them to build a play, so the opponents will try to exploit this situation).
u won't be able to stretch the pitch on a vertical line, because u don't have a single passer at midfield and u also don't have several threats coming from the sidelines (wich would be the only alternative to a regista in order to force the opponent's defensive line to stay deep).

u can quote me if i turn out to be wrong next season... but i'm sure i won't turn out to be wrong on this one.

I'm not sure what my first 11 would be, as I haven't been able to watch as many matches as I would have liked this year, but I have seen every Inter match, and I don't see any way that Pazzini can be included before Eto'o, even if only taking Serie A matches into consideration. Eto'o is the team's leading goal and assist man and carried that attack by himself for long stretches before Pazzini arrived. With Milito injured and off form most of the year, Eto'o had to take over and has easily been Inter's most valuable player.

LOL! i completely forgot about eto'o's fantastic season!!! i stand corrected

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I rate MvB as a very decent passer mate. He surely is not on Pirlo's level and he plays a lot of simple passes but his long ones are actually quite nice and fast. I wouldn't put Cambiasso ahead of him in that department.

Add to that, Galliani and Allegri said Milan will sign a top class midfielder to replace Pirlo but a more dynamic one. Raoila even said he has been working on the deal since January. There were reports on Fabregas but that is too good to be true. I am thinking someone like Aquilani could actually fix the problems you are talking about. Then there is Ganso who I hear is one of the most creative midfielders out there. We'll just have to see. I agree that a midfield consisting of Boateng,Gattuso,Ambrosini,and MvB is too defensive. Ambrosini will probably be rotated with van Bommel.

 

[Hey there]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

What I'm happy of is that no one dared to prove me wrong on Montolivo.
Also, apparently Milan is on a quality midfielder, who they will buy I don't know, but judging on Galliani's face when he talks he won't be no Lazzari/Constant.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I rate MvB as a very decent passer mate. He surely is not on Pirlo's level and he plays a lot of simple passes but his long ones are actually quite nice and fast. I wouldn't put Cambiasso ahead of him in that department.

oh no mate, cambiasso belongs to a whole different category in terms of vision. he's not a defensive midfielder like van bommel. he's a metodista (sorry for using an italian term, but there's no english translation for metodista unfortunately).
u see, it's not strictly about passing skills. the main difference between pirlo and cambiasso and van bommel lies in the way they interpretate and read their teammates movements. that's the difference between talking about "passing skills" and "passing game".

let me make an example with palermo. we did this season exactly what u're aiming at. a very dynamic midfield with no proper regista, but 3 good passers. liverani misssed almost the entire season because of injuries, so, since he's gettin way too old, rossi decided to "move on" and change our midfield setup.
but, unlike milan, we have 2 "rocket-lauchers" on the sidelines, who constantly storm towards the opposite box. cassani and balzaretti "nail" the opponent's defensive line in its own box. they force them to stay deep and that allows our offensive players to do their magic.

but as soon as balzaretti got injured and cassani hit a form drop, the entire team fell apart. that's when the absence of liverani became a problem. everyone started blaming our offensive players.... people thought it was pastore's and ilicic's, pinilla's and hernandez's fault. but they had nothing to do with our problems... and rossi himself once said it. he explained a journalist that our main issue was on the sidelines.
he said "as long as balzaretti and cassani were doing their job, we were able to keep the defensive lines at bait.... but now that balzaretti is injured and cassani isn't playing at his best, the absence of liverani is becoming a problem, because regardless how good migliaccio, bacinovic and nocerino are at passing, they're not architechts, they're not registi. and until balzaretti and cassani will be back, we will keep facing high defensive lines and that will make our entire offensive setup helpless".
this is what i'm talking about. van bommel might not be such a bad passer (although, by serie a standards, he is a pretty bad passer), but he will never be able to put pressure on the opponent's defensive line and hold them back like a regista. and abate alone won't be able to do that either.

in my honest opinion, now u desperately need either a brain at midfield or another very offensive sideback to help abate. if u do one of those 2 things u'll be ok

What I'm happy of is that no one dared to prove me wrong on Montolivo.

monto is a huge disappointment to me. he has extraordinary quality. in terms of pure skills, he's one of the best passers of the league... and he also got the same vision of a regista. but he's got no personality at all. technique-wise he could be a world class player.... but he'll never reach that status precisely coz of his lack of guts.

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

True. Simply said, Ricardo is just a big pussy!

Nice post about the Palermo example above Ben. I fully agree and I love that Delio Rossi apparently explained it so well to public/a journalist. You could always tell Palermo were gonna have their most problems not when playmaker is gone like Liverani or AMF like Pastore or even Miccoli, etc. but when the two side-backs like Roberto Carlos and Cafu on either side of Brazil go out injured/out of form. And of course it's hard to have good backup for players like that. You have backup but they just won't do what the 1st-teamers can do.

Very nice points and I agree except let's not forget one minor thing here. Though van Bommel is a DMF these days and has been for last few years, naturally, he was in fact more of an AMF in his peak/younger days than a DMF.

In reality and in his peak days where he was carrying that PSV team as not just star but captain and the guy who does it all, attack, defend, shoot, score, assist, tackle, he was the PERFECT CM. Does a bit of all, action-packed and constantly joins attackers and supplies them with delicious balls. Of course like most others, he got older and also dirtier and even rougher and slower and so he dropped deeper and deeper... and lost much of his skills/vision and then became one of the world's best DMF's and influential leaders given the magnificent player but cunt he is lol.

So I know what Zeem is talking about there too. van Bommel is not a bad passer at all. He's quite a good passer. The fact that these days he chooses to go for the simpler options is often to do with his position and sitting deeper. Otherwise his passing range and vision is def superior to the average DMF or someone like the legendary Makelele. Because naturally he was more of an attacking player than a defensive one in youth/peak anyway.

And like Zeem, I don't think there's much different in terms of vision/passing between him and one of my fav players and current fav Inter player after Zanetti, in Cambiasso. I do rate Esteban higher still but not by much. Both are good at it without it being their main forte or best skill.

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I was expecting a post from you PLF. I knew you had some points to add on MvB. He hasn't been a total scumbag at Milan yet. Now that his contract got sorted out, I expect some dirty plays from him next season.

Anyway, that is my point. You can't put van Bommel in the category of the likes of Gattuso,Flamini,and Ambrosini. He has better vision and can dictate the tempo of the game. He was like that at Bayern. Even with the presence of Schweinsteiger, van Bommel was more the brain of the team while Bastian was the more mobile energetic midfielder. I remember Robben saying after Mark left that Bayern lost the true leader and captain of the team and that is what he showed at Milan. His personality and ability to command is admirable.

Having said that, he is 34 and had his fair share of red cards. Milan shouldn't rely on him running the midfield alone. As I said, names like Hamsik and Fabregas are being thrown out, even Pastore by including Cassano in the deal(sorry Ben ). Personally, I would prefer if Allegri lined up Boateng as a LCM and a trequartista like Ganso being bought but apparently he has other ideas.

In other news, Diego is up for sale for 10mill. Come on Juve make this mistake twice. Also, Seedorf and Cassano not a certainty. Apparently, Seedorf wants to be a regular to renew.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Nice post about the Palermo example above Ben. I fully agree and I love that Delio Rossi apparently explained it so well to public/a journalist. You could always tell Palermo were gonna have their most problems not when playmaker is gone like Liverani or AMF like Pastore or even Miccoli, etc. but when the two side-backs like Roberto Carlos and Cafu on either side of Brazil go out injured/out of form. And of course it's hard to have good backup for players like that. You have backup but they just won't do what the 1st-teamers can do.

yeah, we could never afford backups as good as them. actually we shouldn't be able to afford starters like them either. we're a midclasss club half as rich as everton and yet we have one of the very best leftback-rightback combinations in europe. we got very lucky with balzaretti and cassani

speaking of van bommel instead, i got too say i can't talk about van bommel's psv period, as i don't follow dutch football. but obviously if u say he used to show some above average passing skills and play in a more "all around" CM role, then i certainly believe u.
but honestly from what i saw from him in the last 6\7 years, i really wouldn't rate him as an above average passer. i mean i can agree with the makelele comparison, but as for cambiasso, i've seen him handling himself in a 2 touches midfeld setup (in pekerman's argentina)...... i've never seen van bommel doing anything like that i his carreer..... and i REALLY can't imagine him doing anything like that at this stage of his carreer. but hey, who knows, maybe i'm wrong on this one and he's actually a better passer than i think (afterall it's not like i've watched him on a weekly basis).

but that still doesn't change the fact that he is no regista. because, like i said in my last post, being a regista isn't just about passing skills, it's about your passing game as a whole. let's make a few examples of different kind of midfielders with good passing game.

de rossi is a metodista with an above average passing game (actually above average is an understatement, but that's not rilevant here). yet he will never be able to play as a regista. i had endless conversations with rfu on this subject (where is he btw?). since de rossi is such a fantastic all around midfielder and has such a good passing, rfu was disappointed in him coz he expected daniele to build up plays.... but daniele will never do that because he's a different kind of player. he's not a regista. he has the passing accuracy of a regista, but not the ability to read the game of a regista.... neither the ability to raise the tempo of a regista (he can slow the tempo down, but he can't shift it up).

aquilani is a mezz'ala (inside forward) with an insanely good passing game. alberto is a freak, he could hit an orange from 25 meters with a first touch pass. but do his passing skills qualify him as a regista? no. because, whereas he does have the vision and passing skills of a regista, his passing game is different. he can raise the tempo of the game, but he can't slow it down (the exact opposite of de rossi).
and just like i woud say about de rossi, that doesn't mean he's worse than a regista, or that he isn't good enough to be a regista.... he's just different.

and after a DM and a CM, let's consider an AMF. Zidane had an exquisite passing game. he also was able to play with the tempo of the game and to tune the rhythm according to his wishes (he could slow it down AND shift it up). yet everytime lippi tried to move him backwards and line him up at center midfield to play as a regista, zizou miserably failed. why? because, whereas zizou had great passing skills, the ability to change the tempo AND a fantastic vision....... he didn't have a regista's vision. zizou was used to read the game from the 3\4 of the pitch, not from the midfield line. and that makes all the difference in the world.

there's a big difference between a trequartista's vision and a regista's vision. a trequartista plays his game on the 3\4 line (wich is just before the final quarter of the pitch). whenever he gets the ball he has in front of him:
from 25 to 35 meters of pitch
from 3 to 5 opponents between him and the opposite goalkeeper
from 2 to 3 possible targets for a pass
there isn't much pitch to scan, there aren't many oppenents whose movements u have to read and there are many targets u have to choose between. bottom line there isn't much vision (or reading) involved, because there isn't much to read (or at least not as much to read as there is from behind the midfield line).
or maybe, to put it differently, the kind of vision required to be a trequartista is different from the kind of vision required to be a regista (and i'll explain this later).

what's the situation from a regista's perspective instead? we as soon as u get the ball u have in front of u:
at least 55 meters of pitch (more than half of the entire playground)
from 5 to 7 opponents between u and the goal line
from 4 to 6 teammates who might be making themselves available targets for a pass.

u can clearely see the difference! it's a completely different game and a very different set of skills required to play as a regista. the trequartista has to pick one of the 2,3 available teammates and try a killer pass.
he doesn't have much pitch to scan
he doesn't have many teammates to pick from
and most important he doesn't have to worry about the further development of the play, because his pass is most likely gonna be the final pass of the play. his pass is gonna lead to either a shot or a possession loss.

for a regista the situation is completely different
he has most of the pitch to scan
he has most of the opponent players to follow with his eyes
and most important, he can't just think of his pass. his pass is not going to be the last one of the play, but the first one. so he doesn't have to think only about wich teammate is in the better position to receive a pass right now. he also has to imagine the further development of the play and think of wich of his teammates will be in the better position (not only to receive a pass, but also) to continue the play.

i don't know how many of u are into billiard, but that offers a pretty good analogy. when we play billiard with our friends we just look at the table and think of wich is the easiest ball to hit and how to hit it in order to send it into the pocket.
a professional billiard player instead READS the table and thinks not only about wich is the best ball to hit now, but also about wich ball he should hit next. and therefore when he takes his shot he angles it in a way that leaves the white ball in the best position to hit the next ball.
long story short, he's already thinking about his next move. and that's what a regista has to do. that's the sort of vision he is supposed to possess.
an advanced midfielder doesn't have to worry about the next 2 passes, because there won't be 2 more passes after his.

i'm saying all this to make the point of what it takes to be a regista. it's not just about passing accuracy or passing skills..... it's not just about the ability to change the tempo of the game..... it's not just about having vision...... and it's not just about having any type of vision (a trequartista's vision won't help u).
it's all theese things put together. a proper regista must have a "check" to each of this skills set. and that's why there are so few registas around.
in europe we have thousands of defensive midfielders, advanced midfielders, inside forwards, wingers, central midfielders........ but there aren't more than 100, maybe 200 registas.

and since there are such few players in europe who have all the skills required to play as a regista, well, if a player has those skills, trust me, he will play as a regista.
if van bommel were able to do that he would have been doing that for his entire carreer...... and no coach would have ever wasted him in any other role.

my last and most important point is van bommel won't ever be able to have an entire defensive line drop back 5 meters everytime he gets the ball, simply because he got the ball. this is what u had with pirlo.... and this is what your forwards are going to miss from next season on. depth. space to work with.
and that obviously doesn't mean i don't like van bommel as a player. he's great at what he does, but u shouldn't expect him to run your midfield like a regista (exactly as u couldn't expect a regista to provide the coverage van bommel provides).

Having said that, he is 34 and had his fair share of red cards. Milan shouldn't rely on him running the midfield alone. As I said, names like Hamsik and Fabregas are being thrown out, even Pastore by including Cassano in the deal(sorry Ben ). Personally, I would prefer if Allegri lined up Boateng as a LCM and a trequartista like Ganso being bought but apparently he has other ideas.

hamsik and pastore couldn't play pirlo's game, for the very same reason van bommel can't; they're different kind of players, playing in different roles. also boateng couldn't do that. besides lining boateng up in the regista's spot would mean missing out the only inside forward with good off the ball movement in your midfield (and allegri would never do that). the only one of those players who could play in pirlo's position is fabregas, or, according to what many people say (i can't confirm as i've never seen the kid playing), ganso.

as for diego, from what i hear he's been a real asshole and magath (who isn't exactly a guy u wanna mess with!) decided to put him out of the squad.
given the situation, i don't think this is necessarily a mistake (exactly as i didn't think juve made much of a mistake by selling him for less than what they spent on him). i already said it last season, diego is a wonderful player with an outstanding talent.... but talent alone won't bring u far.

 

[Neoexodus]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I had a diffetrent image of Diego, turns out he is just a Cassano v2.

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

About the Milan midfield thing, I just remembered a few weeks back, a guy on twitter posted a pdf which had Allegri's thesis on a three man midfield he presented. Are these supposed to published btw?

 

[endione]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Del Neri just announced he that the Juve board is saying goodbye to him after the last match. What do you, guys, think of this and is Conte a proper replacement?

 

[Neoexodus]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

omfg please tell me Conte is a good coach cous i sense another season of terror...

 

[Dominic]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

My seasonal 11

Abbiati
Isla Silva Nesta Balzaretti
Gargano?
Inler Hernanes
Sanchez
Cavani Eto'o

Udinese the most represented