Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

[Valon]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

shame Palermo lose this final

hey beat Milan and i was hoping they'll do same with Inter but what to do .....

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

that was just heartbreaking.
losing a final against a top club like inter is something a palermo fan could easily bear. but not like this. not after outplaying your opponent for the entire match.
jesus, at times it almost felt as if palermo were playing against a serie b team.... in a home fixture. even the inter-schalke game was much more balanced and less one sided than this one ffs.

palermo has always been quite a wasteful team, but that's never been a problem, as we produce so many scoring chances that even if we score only 1 out of 5, that's still enough to guarrantee us at least 1\2 goals.
...but yesterday was just ridiculous. and the most hilarious thing is that the only goal we scored was also invalid. oh well, i guess it was just not meant to be
it kinda reminded me last year's match between inter and barca in milan, when, during the last 15 minutes, barca crushed inter in his own midfield.....
with the small difference that palermo crushed inter for 80 minutes.

not that this is something unusual for palermo. i mean over the last 3 years we have repeatedly kicked the shit out of every italian top team (milan, juve, roma) both in palermo and in their own turf (funnily the only team we didn't manage to beat on back to back occasions is inter)
....but what makes it unbelievable is the team we lined up.

acquah was a disaster (as expected). the kid panicked every time he got the ball (or made a tackle). he litterally hasn't done anything right. it was pretty much like playing with one man less.... in the most important position of the field (central midfield). and the more mistakes he made, the more worried he got, wich lead to even bigger mistakes.
honestly i don't know what sort of problems liverani had, but seriously even on a wheelchair liverani could have been more useful than acquah.

and then there was the defense. not having bovo was already serious enough... but when even goian got injured i honestly thought that someone up there just didn't want us to win. when carrozzieri had to take goian's place i thought we were screwed. not that i don't trust carrozzieri (he's was a damn good cb... at least till his ban 2 years ago).... but what sort of performance could i expect from a defender who was playing his first official match in 2 years?? (his cocaine ban just expired)
all in all i gotta say he was quite heroic, but obviously he doesn't know this team now. he doesn't know cassani's movements, neither munoz's movements (and that helped eto'o a lot).

and then there were ilicic and cassani, who had one of their worst performances ever, and balzaretti, who had to play despite the fever (gotta say though he handled himself pretty well).

when u think of all the problems we had yesterday, u just can't figure out how we managed to outplay inter like that. i mean it was ridiculous... and also quite embarassing for inter. they are the top club, they are the ones who were supposed to dictate the plot of the game..... yet for the entire match we played the top club role, while inter played like a relegation contender club, sitting back, and trying to hit the opponent with only counters.

and they weren't even good at that! i mean palermo is the easiest team in the world to hit with counters, given our shaky defense, our attacking sidebacks and our offensive mentality..... we usually concede at least 6 or 7 counters per game (wich explains why he conceded so many goals this season). inter just made 4 counters.... and yet they scored 3 goals.

however that doesn't really matter. u're right rfu, this is football. it doesn't matter how many scoring chances u create, it doesn't matter if u get more possession than your opponent, if u crush them into their own midfield, if u pass the ball around with much more quality and fluidity, if u get more possession...... u gotta take your chances. inter did, we didn't. wich is why i strongly disagree with that douchebag of zamparini, who said inter stole the match and that we deserved the win. by saying that zamparini is only embarassing himself (just as much as palermo players embarassed inter on the pitch).

but u gotta admit rfu, it can't be all about the result. yesterday a midclass club like palermo showed a top club like inter how a final should be played.
inter is a team full of veterans, world class players who played countless finals... and yet yesterday they played like a small time club facing a top class team in its first final ever.

palermo on the other side was actually playing its first final ever (at least in this generation). yesterday one of the most unexperienced teams in the world (2nd youngest team in europe after rennes), whose average age is 24 (arsenal is an ageing team compared to us), faced inter in his very first final ever..... and with a formation wich is even far from its starting 11. and yet we showed no fear at all. we went out there and tried to play our football, despite the missing players or the unfit starters.
it sure was far from our best performance, but still it was enough to humiliate inter.

in a few months no one will remember how inter managed to win this game. people will only remember inter beated palermo ina final and that's ok.
but not me or any other palermo fan. we will always remember how we played this final. the heart and the personality our kids showed.
sure it's not as sweet as watching your team lifting a cup (especially for a guy who has never seen his team lifting a cup). but it's more than i ever expected as a palermo fan (at least till a few years ago)

one last note about the crowd. what a fantastic atmoshpere that was. i've never seen the media praising a fanbase like they're doing today with palermo fans. newspapers, tv.... even before talking about the match, they talk about those 45 thousands palermitani, the chants, the colours, that cheerful, supportive and classy attitude they showed... even after the game (applauding rossi and the players, despite the loss). apparently today we're being labeled "the classiests, most civilised and nicests fans in italy". even inter players praised us. i heard 3 post match interviews... zanetti, eto'o and julio cesar.... and each of them began their interview by saying "before u start with the questions, let me congratulate with palermo fans for the amazing atmosphere and class they're showing tonite"...... and from serie a players, used to play in front of great crowds like genoa, samp and napoli, that is quite a compliment.

congrats for the result rfu. it was a deserved win (football apart of course )

How on earth is Palermo losing this match by now? They deserved the lead too many times and they're loosing! I'm quite annoyed, I was supporting Palermo in this one, a team in a pink shirt MUST win!

(Plus, I went to Palermo some time ago and had a good time. And then they wear a PINK shirt. Did I said that?).

great to see u here in the serie a thread buddy! and thanks for the support

I see. So what do teams do to give a first team player who has just recovered from a serious injury some match practice?

Does he play with the youth team? Or do they organise a behind-closed-doors friendly?

they play with the youth team. carrozzieri for instance didn't play a palermo official game for 2 years (he was ound positive to cocaine and banned). he had only 2 games with the youth team in his legs, before yesterday's game.

Yo Ben you watching Ranocchia out there today? Jesus christ.

yes, i did watch ranocchia. so what about it? u think that was a poor performance??? LOL! that's odd. if u thought that was bad, then i can see why u think he had poor this season.
look, i could tell u i don't think he was bad, i could remind u he also had fever... but i won't. what i will tell u is that mario sconcerti (corriere della sera), compagnoni (sky), andrea elefante (gazzettta dello sport), fulvio collovati (rai) and luigi ferrajolo (corriere dello sport).... they all gave ranocchia a 6 for his performance (6 equals to decent; not particularly good, nor particularly bad). that should tell u something.
i think u should consider the possibility that your opinion on ranocchia is not based on his actual skills, nor on his performances, but just on your (very) personal taste. u simply don't like the guy. nothing wrong with that. but u should admit that and realise that something is obviously clouding your judgement on him

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

jesus, at times it almost felt as if palermo were playing against a serie b team.... in a home fixture. even the inter-schalke game was much more balanced and less one sided than this one.

ok you're taking it a little far now, i mean as an inter fan i can only let you get away with so much... yes we played shite, one of our worst performances of the year, etc, but serie B on your home turf, oh c'mon

when u think of all the problems we had yesterday, u just can't figure out how we managed to outplay inter like that. i mean it was ridiculous... and also quite embarassing for inter. they are the top club, they are the ones who were supposed to dictate the plot of the game..... yet for the entire match we played the top club role, while inter played like a relegation contender club, sitting back, and trying to hit the opponent with only counters.

we had problems too don't forget, for one an inept coach who is completely alien to the concept of "clean sheet". Inter were visibly tired out there, just look at the 2 seasons we've been through. we have a huge squad but we've played the same 15 players for the last 2 years (remember we made no acquisitions this year)...

but u gotta admit rfu, it can't be all about the result. yesterday a midclass club like palermo showed a top club like inter how a final should be played.
inter is a team full of veterans, world class players who played countless finals... and yet yesterday they played like a small time club facing a top class team in its first final ever.

clearly our players are still spent from that 2 leg match up versus Barca all those months ago, and since then we haven't had much of a break. plus we're not a youthful side, that and our players are slow and technically inept.

Look at it another way... as the experienced team, we did what we had to to win the game. you want us to embarrass you with some silky football, get on the phone to moratti and tell him to open his damn wallet.

Football is a heartbreaker my friend, at least you didn't lose a cup final to your bitter rivals.

and yet we showed no fear at all. we went out there and tried to play our football, despite the missing players or the unfit starters.
it sure was far from our best performance, but still it was enough to humiliate inter.

humiliate? made us look stupid on occassion, dominated proceedings, but who's going home with the trophy? Anyway, say what you want (serie B, relegation team, blah blah) but dont forget you haven't beaten us in the last 3 seasons. And nevermind what our players were saying about being up for this game. We want the supercup vs milan, winning the coppa was just a bonus. speaking of bonuses, anyone notice the trophy Materazzi was brandishing around? it's a trophy to commemorate 150 years of unification in italy, or something... so that's four trophies this season

in a few months no one will remember how inter managed to win this game.

we're counting on it

even inter players praised us. i heard 3 post match interviews... zanetti, eto'o and julio cesar.... and each of them began their interview by saying "before u start with the questions, let me congratulate with palermo fans for the amazing atmosphere and class they're showing tonite"......

classy guys, through and through.

they play with the youth team. carrozzieri for instance didn't play a palermo official game for 2 years (he was ound positive to cocaine and banned). he had only 2 games with the youth team in his legs, before yesterday's game.

ban or no ban, he wasn't much of a defender, all due respect . is this cocaine thing common place in football by the way? A friend of mine who played in la liga used to tell me he saw Raul and Guti and other la liga stars doing that shit all the time

Ledley King a Youngster

i mean over the years, not just recently. Back when he first emerged, he was a highly rated CB, he wasn't making the kind of mistakes Ranocchia has been making in his short stint at inter.

look, i could tell u i don't think he was bad, i could remind u he also had fever... but i won't

or that his knee injury in march is clearly still bothering (although according to him it isn't)... also the fact that he isn't used to playing so many games so close together... look i'm not expecting the world from this guy. nor do i dislike him, i'm just calling him out for his various mistakes. his concentration level and decision making is not at the expected level and needs to improve. All due respect, we aren't Palermo, we can afford to concede silly goals like this. To say he wasn't "bad" just shows how low our expectations are of him. Why can't he put in a stunning performance, just one game, this wasn't even his worst game so you can imagine what he's like on a bad day, just all over the place. He has Samuel and Materazzi to learn from, I expect a vast improvement next season.

And regarding the Bovo comment, better than Mexes say whuuut!! When there's a lack of quality italian players, Bovo can't even get anywhere near national team, and you're saying he's better than a seasoned vet like Metersacker with 50 plus caps under his belt who's smoking that funny stuff now

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

ok you're taking it a little far now, i mean as an inter fan i can only let you get away with so much... yes we played shite, one of our worst performances of the year, etc, but serie B on your home turf, oh c'mon

i don't think i am exagerating mate. i've never seen palermo dictating the plot of the game with such an ease this season... even relegated teams like bari and brescia gave us much more of a challenge. we outclassed what should be a much better team in every possible aspect. passing game, poossession, scoring chances, personality.
if we were talking about 2 teams on the same level, then u might reply that the result is what matters most.
but palermo and inter are not on the same level. and when a team with so much experience, with so many world class players faces a lesser opponent in a final and plays like that, well i'm sorry but "humiliation" is the only word for it.
there's no shame in losing to a lesser team in a final. results are impredictable and can be effected by many factors. plus in a single match palermo could potentially beat pretty much every top club in europe bar barça. but it's definitely shameful to play like that against a lesser team, no matter if u end up winning or losing.

mind u i'm not saying u should have destroyed us. i know inter, i know u're not a possession-based kinda team and i didn't expect inter to show more quality than palermo.
but i did expect u to show more personality than palermo. like i said before palermo's average age is 24. hernandez is playing his first season as a starter, pastore and sirigu are playing their second season as starters. munoz and ilicic are playing their first season in serie a. acquah has played 4 matches as a starter in his carreer.
and none of them ever experienced the pressure that comes with a final.
on the other sides there were snejder, eto'ò, lucio, zanetti, stankovic, motta. a team wich played 3 finals just this season.
and yet the nerazzurri looked like a bunch of scared noobs, panicking under the rosanero pressure. that's why i talk about humiliation.

and the result has absolutely nothing to do with this. let me make myself more clear. in the semifinal against milan, palermo won...... but we certainly can't say palermo humiliated milan, because milan always tried to play its game (even in palermo).
another example could be the last game between inter and palermo, the jannuary game in milano, when palermo was winning 0-2 at half time and pazzini tore us apart in the second half. back then inter played its game. the nerazzurri showed personality and didn't allow us to dictate the theme of the game... even in the 1st half, when we were winning by 2 goals. inter might have even lost that game, still they showed top club personality and composure.

sunday u didn't show any of that. and that's much more important than the result. results are always unpredictable, there are just too many factors that come into play and in a single match everything can happen. it's how u play that defines your performance, not the result. we drew 2-2 in milano against milan... but we certainly didn't dominate milan.... we lost 1-3 against inter, yet everyone in italy is remarking how palermo dominated inter.

if u play like this against barcelona, in barca, then there's no shame in that. but if u play that way against palermo on neutral turf, that's a different story.

Look at it another way... as the experienced team, we did what we had to to win the game. you want us to embarrass you with some silky football, get on the phone to moratti and tell him to open his damn wallet.

i was not expecting u to play silky football. i was expecting u to show the same personality u showed in jannuary against us. i wasn't expecting u to embarass us with barcelona-esque football... i was expecting u to embarass us with inter-esque football. and u don't need moratti to buy better players to do that. with the likes of thiago motta, zanetti, stankovic, lucio, snejder, eto'o, milito and pazzini... u already have more than enough to handle a bunch of talented noobs like palermo players.

ban or no ban, he wasn't much of a defender, all due respect . is this cocaine thing common place in football by the way? A friend of mine who played in la liga used to tell me he saw Raul and Guti and other la liga stars doing that shit all the time

i don't think it is that common in italy. i can only remember pegolo, flachi and carrozzieri who were found positive to cocaine in italy.
anyway i gotta correct u here mate. before the ban carrozzieri was a very good cb, nearing his prime. he was even starting to get some attention by lippi. but of course no one can say how such a long absence will effect him now.

however i gotta say mate, u have a weird way of judging cbs. u seem astonished by hearing me saying bovo is a better cb than mexes.... bovo is a much better cb than mexes. and with all due respect, if he were german, he would have plenty of caps in the national team, just like mertsacker (who also is a much better cb than mexes). i dunno if u noticed it, but mexes has been so unconsistant and unreliable in the last 2 seasons that burdisso (a former backup in inter) took his place in roma's starting formation. bovo has above average reading abillities, and top notch anticipation. plus he's one of the most technical cbs in europe and one of the few cbs in italy with good enough passing game to actually build up plays from the defensive line. he's quite weak on man marking wich is the reason why he hadn't such a fancy carreer (and still he's a much better man marker than mexes) but's he a very good cb.

ranocchia's concentration level and decision making is not at the expected level and needs to improve. . He has Samuel and Materazzi to learn from, I expect a vast improvement next season.

mate his decision making is one of his best qualities! what are u taking about. and what on earth could he possibly learn from materazzi??? he's already lightyears ahead of materazzi!

look, let's be reasonable. we're talking about a kid at his second season in serie a. a guy who proved himeself as one of the best young cbs in europe last season... right until he faced one of the worst injuries a football player can have (his injury is the same that put an end to wierchowood's carreer. the same injury that compromised del piero's performaances for 4 years).

then, this season he had to adapt to 2 different clubs (genoa and then inter). he had to adapt himself to 2 completely different defensive setups (from genoa's 3 men line to inter's 2 man line).
and it's not just that either. when he joined inter in jannuary he had to adapt to a new partner pretty much every month as cordoba's, lucio's and samuel's injuries forced him to play with different partners all season long (wich would be a huge handicap for a veteran, nevermind for a youngster who just joined a top club in the middle of the season). i'm quite sure no cb in europe had to adapt himself to so many different partners this season (samuel, lucio, cordoba, chivu. that's 4 different new partners in 5 months).

and despite all that he showed the composure, the positioning and the coolness of a veteran. he had some absolutely stunning performances (almost every time i watched inter).
of course i'm sure he also had some below average performances (like i said, i didn't watch inter on a weekly basis this season), but come on, what were u expecting from him!!! even lucio had a pretty crappy first season at inter..... and he certainly wasn't a youngster when he joined the nerazzurri. neither he had to deal with all the problems ranocchia had to deal with this season.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

u know what saddens me the most? to think of how different was this trophy for the 2 finalists.
a coppa italia isn't really such a big deal for the interisti (players and fans). sure lifting a cup is always great, but inter has got a cabinet full of coppa italia already (7). they always play on the biggest stages, they've won more scudetti than anyone else in the last decade, they lifted a champions league just 12 months ago.
make no mistake, they certainly didn't snub the cup. they showed the same commitment u would expect from a champions league finalist (credit and respect to the nerazzurri for that ).... but at the end of the day, this will be just one of the several trophis they won... and certainly not the most important.

for us instead it was the chance of a lifetime. watching the guys playing their hearts out and coming out with nothing, especially after such a thrilling and corageous display, was really heartbreaking.

and even more so was watching those 45 thousands fans, who did 900 kilometers to peacefully invade roma, applauding grateful their players after the defeat.
we hear very often fans claming their club has "the best fanbase of them all", especially top club fans.... deluded idiots who boo their teams and managers after a disappointing season.
i'm not saying palermo has the best fans in the world, as i find such claims stupid and meaningless.... but i do believe palermo fans gave italy (and everyone else abroad who bothered watching us) a lesson about sportsmanship and fair play this season. theese are the same people who just a few months ago cheered up their players and the coach after a 0-7 loss at home. i wonder how many fans would do that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qszi3Pow4I
great vid

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Palermo indeed seemed pretty good Ben, if i watched that video good, i think Palermo should have had a penalty for a foul by Chivu.
But Samuel Eto'o still has to be one of the best attackers in the world. Can you imagine Barcelona with Eto'o?

Oh and Palermo still has the most classy outfit in the world...
You must be gutted Ben...next season better....

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

well i'm sorry but "humiliation" is the only word for it.

so isn't more humiliating that you lost to us

but i did expect u to show more personality than palermo.

this is inter, you never know what to expect. if we were a goal down we would shifted gears but no, we scored first, and then a second. and inspite of you humiliating us i can't say i was too worried of conceding. you carved us open but did nothing... that header you scored was just plain stupid and from out of nowhere, which goes to show how calamitous our defending is.

like i said before palermo's average age is 24. hernandez is playing his first season as a starter, pastore and sirigu are playing their second season as starters. munoz and ilicic are playing their first season in serie a. acquah has played 4 matches as a starter in his carreer.and none of them ever experienced the pressure that comes with a final.

and thats why we won you know, it's that youthfulness and naiveté that gives you the edge, you guys aren't weighted down by expectations and fear of failure, you can just cut loose, do what you want (those silly back heels I see Pastore doing for one)... so consider yourself lucky you have such a young and inexperienced squad who can focus on football and not winning. its like they say, in italy champions win playing ugly and winning undeservedly, losers play sexy and go home with nothing

anyway i gotta correct u here mate. before the ban carrozzieri was a very good cb, nearing his prime. he was even starting to get some attention by lippi.

maybe good enough for palermo, but for me he's too slow and gawky. good man marker, he did a good job on Ibra i remember, but i don't care if he was in his prime last night, against Eto'o he would have had no chance.

i dunno if u noticed it, but mexes has been so unconsistant and unreliable in the last 2 seasons that burdisso (a former backup in inter) took his place in roma's starting formation.

that was down to form and injuries... also he's a bit of a nutcase (fucking red card machine ), all of which effects his consistency. but notice he's reclaimed his starting spot this season without much of a fuss. Bovo's problem for me is his tackling which is where mexes excels with his anticipation and timing. what he also has over bovo is: strength in the air, heading ability, never-say die mentality/attitude, and better positioning. also his speed/strength. Imo he's just as good moving forward with the ball as Bovo only not as good long ball skills and shooting.

mate his decision making is one of his best qualities! what are u taking about.

when he pushes too high up the field or when tries to dribble his way into midfield and then pass to the opposition Also he has problems sticking to his man and anticipating when he should go for the ball or back off. it's a real problem for him.

and what on earth could he possibly learn from materazzi??? he's already lightyears ahead of materazzi!

anticipation skills. i can limp faster than Materazzi can run, but he has the uncanny ability over many CBs to be in the right place and intercept. also man-marking skills. and definitely heading in set pieces... oh and maybe a dirty trick or two, like how to kick a milanista in the balls when the ref ain't looking

look, let's be reasonable. we're talking about a kid at his second season in serie a. a guy who proved himeself as one of the best young cbs in europe last season... right until he faced one of the worst injuries a football player can have (his injury is the same that put an end to wierchowood's carreer. the same injury that compromised del piero's performaances for 4 years).

then, this season he had to adapt to 2 different clubs (genoa and then inter). he had to adapt himself to 2 completely different defensive setups (from genoa's 3 men line to inter's 2 man line).
and it's not just that either. when he joined inter in jannuary he had to adapt to a new partner pretty much every month as cordoba's, lucio's and samuel's injuries forced him to play with different partners all season long (wich would be a huge handicap for a veteran, nevermind for a youngster who just joined a top club in the middle of the season). i'm quite sure no cb in europe had to adapt himself to so many different partners this season (samuel, lucio, cordoba, chivu. that's 4 different new partners in 5 months).

I agree with being reasonable but you're the one who put him in a seasons XI ahead of Nesta, Zapata and Cannavaro. Did I say to sell Rano? Hell, I don't think we should even drop him. I just think right now he's garbage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Qszi3Pow4I
great vid

yuck, like watching a disney movie. thanks i feel sick now that's nothing, try being an inter fan for 5 minutes, try losing against your bitter rivals in UCL semi-final and then go on to see them win the bloody thing. try reliving may 4th 2001, wen we lost the scudetto on the last day, a whole seasons worth of effort gone in a single half.... hell wat about roma fans last few years . you'll get over it ben and then comes the pain of losing your best players (illicic to inter for 15m, i dare to dream)

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

to further my point on italian youngsters not being allowed to flourish in italy, look at the current U21 squad? like four of them actually play in serie a, one of them is a regular (Santon) the other a bench warmer (Donati) and the other two (Paloschi and Destro) dont even make the bench. these guys aren't even good enough for the relegation battlers for goodness sake. Now contrast with spain, germany and england U21s (not even counting stars like Wilshere, Walcott, Carrol, Kross, Götze, de Gea, Capel and Herrera)....

Remember the good old days Ben(Abbiati, Ferrari, Grandoni, Zanchi, Coco, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Perrota, Baronio, Zanetti, Zambrotta, Pirlo, Ventola)? Remember? Remember wen you had Donati, Dalla Bona and the Zenoni twins coming through the ranks, destined for big things? Now where are there. Maccarone? Bonera? Rosina? Where did it all go so wrong?

there should be at least one U21 player playing for one of the top 4 clubs but we can't even manage that.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

It can happen, you've got Balotelli. England had a generation similar were we got Rooney but other than that nothing.

 

[Hey there]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I'd add Giuseppe Rossi to the count.

 

[Neoexodus]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Giovinco, Marchisio, etc.

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I don't get it. The national team is looking really good now. Lots of young very technically gifted players in the squad and Prandelli is working it really good. Rossi is on fire lately! Then you got players like Balotelli,Giovinco,Abate,Poli... to look forward to.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

oh no guys, u got it all wrong.... u see, u would think marchisio is an excellent midfielder and that rossi and balotelli are two of the best young offensive players in europe..... but actually they aren't really anything special...those people in spain who consider rossi the best cf in la liga, they are just seriously overrating him......
... and u know who else is seriously overrated? pazzini..... i mean yeah, he scores for fun,, but let's be honest, he will never be as good as Pelè so he must be pretty crappy afterall... just like ranocchia..yeah the rest of the world is praising him as one of the very best prospects in europe in his role, but he's not likely to become as good as nesta or beckembauer, so what all this fuss is about?!! am i right rfu??!
and also criscito... yeah he's been doing great in the last 2 years, but let's be honest, he isn't world class... and if u're not world class today... if u're not among the 5\6 best players in the world in your role, then u're worth nothing. i mean if u're a young leftback and u're not gonna be as good as maldini, why bother?
and it's not just that. u see, u would think balzaretti and de rossi are 2 world class players... but actually they aren't. and that poli kid? massively overrated.
yeah, i gotta agree with rfu on this one, italy hasn't produced any quality players since nesta and buffon.

Spoiler

Remember the good old days Ben(Abbiati, Ferrari, Grandoni, Zanchi, Coco, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Perrota, Baronio, Zanetti, Zambrotta, Pirlo, Ventola)? Remember? Remember wen you had Donati, Dalla Bona and the Zenoni twins coming through the ranks, destined for big things? Now where are there. Maccarone? Bonera? Rosina? Where did it all go so wrong?

the good old days???!!! u really thought players like grandoni, zanchi, or maccarone or the zenoni twins or dalla bona were destined for big things???? oh boy!
and u also believe that ranocchia hasn't had a very good season, that bovo isn't a better cb than mexes, that de rossi and balzaretti aren't world class players????
seriously mate, u should start questioning your ability to judge players

anyway rfu, i know u're a smart and definitely not touchy guy, so i know i can tellu u this without having to worry u might feel offended...... i don't agree with anything u wrote in the last 2 pages. and i really mean every single comment u made in the last 2 pages of this thread.
and it's not just about point of views either. i mean talking with people with different opinions is always something i like.... but it's the logic behind your opinions that i find qiuite erratic. u judge youngsters basing your opinion on a single season.... then u compare them to already established veterans... then u even say u're not excited by a young cb because u don't think he will ever become one of the greatests cbs in history...then u start a big rant about italy not producing young talented players??? seriously what are u talking about? i was just joking when i told u to lay off the grass, but now i'm actually starting to believe i was onto something there!

anyway mate, i can't see us agreeing on anything that has been said in the last 2 pages. we both argumented our points long enough, so, before we bore everyone in this thread with our longests posts (i think we dominated the conversation for way too long in this thread), let's just cut it here and agree that we don't agree.

The national team is looking really good now. Lots of young very technically gifted players in the squad and Prandelli is working it really good. Rossi is on fire lately! Then you got players like Balotelli,Giovinco,Abate,Poli... to look forward to.

yup. i did expect prandelli to do a great job (although i still believe club-coaching is where he gives his best), but i sure didn't expect such a drastic change in such a short time.
someone should send lippi a tape of prandelli's italy matches with a card "this is the team u were expected to field at the world cup, u stubborn jackass.... and this is how that team would have played!!"
lol! can u imagine how pissed off lippi must be right now. for 2 years he's been saying that that was the best italy could do.... that he was calling the best players and that we just weren't able to play better football. we had to take that shit for 2 years..... and now prandelli is proving him wrong embarassing him with every match italy is playing. u can actually see the guys being happy to play for italy... they're so enthused to play and u can clearely tell, watching their football, that they're really enjoying themselves. fantastic, absolutely fantastic now i'm actually looking forward italy's matches, coz i know that i'm gonna watch some quality football.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

one last note guys. big scandal blowing up in italy!!!! not as serious as calciopoli, but still very serious. it's still way to early to tell any details, as the situation is very fluid and dynamic right now; newspapers come up with new details everyday, but it's hard to tell what's true and what's not at this point, coz the magistrates and cremona's pubblic attorney are still working on the case and they're trying to keep everything secret until the preliminary investigation is finished (wich is exacly what they should be doing).... as a result of that, most of the things that we read on the newspapers in theese days are just wild rumours (70% bullshit) used to come up with a headline.

anyway, just to give u an idea of what we're talking about, do u remember that scandal about match fixing and football betting that exploded in germany 3 years ago? well apparently something very similar is happened in italy. so far the only matches involved are some serie b and lega pro (former serie c) matches, but even some serie a matches might be involved in the scandal (right now no serie a matches is involved but the investigation isn't over yet, so we can't exclude that possibility).
Gerd, do u remember when u asked in here about those rumours concerning an atalanta match? u remember i told u i didn't hear anything about it on italian media? well turns out that the reason why italian media didn't mention anything on that was because the public attorney of cremona started an investigation on that match (and not only on that one). and now we're about to discover the results of that investigation.

so far there are no referees involved and no general managers or presidents involved (wich means that no club is directly responsible)...... only single individuals (some serie b players) are involved in the scandal... so it might look a little less serious than the german betting scandal..... but the investigation is not over yet and things might get more serious in the next few weeks.
one thing seems pretty clear: atalanta and siena are in deep troubles.

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Giovinco, Marchisio, etc.

very talented but haven't quite yet "emerged" on the scene. Also Cassano, quagriella, palombo and Di Natale.

It can happen, you've got Balotelli. England had a generation similar were we got Rooney but other than that nothing.

yup, equally disappointing. in fact, since gerrard, becks and carragher. no one worth mentioning really. Maybe Terry, Barry and J Cole. Parker and Barton. However, could be argued that influx of foreign players is limiting playing time (Bridge, SWP and Defoe for example). but at least you have a good number playing for teams in the top half of the table (huddlestone, jenas, walcott, Hart, Crouch), you wont find that happening in italy. De Rossi, Montolivo and Marchisio, everyone else is on the bench or in serie B.

I don't get it. The national team is looking really good now. Lots of young very technically gifted players in the squad and Prandelli is working it really good. Rossi is on fire lately! Then you got players like Balotelli,Giovinco,Abate,Poli... to look forward to.

you say this after the estonia match? i'm saying there's been a gap since the turn of the millenium, after the emergence of Pirlo and Buffon, Gatusso. Rossi is not at that level yet, just because he's one of the most sought after players (to be a bench warmer, most likely) doesn't mean he's a world beater. I rate him highly but he has some way to go yet. Mario is too much of a twat at the moment. Abate is quite ordinary actally. steady, consistent performer (as of the second half of last season) but he wasn't and isn't at zambrotta's level. Jury is still out on Giovinco. too many ordindary players in italy. a good number have just come and gone (maccarone, rosina, bochetti, ameila, lupoli, dalla bona, ferrari). been following the U21s closely for a number of years and its really disappointing.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

but at least you have a good number playing for teams in the top half of the table (huddlestone, jenas, walcott, Hart, Crouch), you wont find that happening in italy. De Rossi, Montolivo and Marchisio, everyone else is on the bench or in serie B.

really? and what about criscito? isn't criscito a starter in genoa?.... and what about chiellini and bonucci? aren't they both starters in juve? what about cassani and balzaretti? aren't they starters in a club wich is in the top half of the table as palermo?
and what about giovinco, who has been a starter in parma, once he left juve... or what about poli. he was a starter last season in samp, the same samp wich ended up 4th in serie a(this season he wasn't a starter, but he had some serious personal issues).
what about abate, who is fighting with cassani for the starting spot in the right back position for the italy team... isn't he a starter for milan?
seriously mate, do u even watch serie a? coz from theese sort of comments it doesn't really look like u do.

i'm saying there's been a gap since the turn of the millenium, after the emergence of Pirlo and Buffon

oh that's a shocker! are u seriously expecting italy to produce another pirlo even before pirlo retired (pirlo is 32 FFS)? are u really expecting us to come up with another buffon any time soon?

WAKE UP rfu! legends are called legends coz they don't grow up every generation.... it took us 20 years to see argentina producing a player comparable to maradona. it took 15 years to holland to produce another offensive legend after crujff (van basten).
and chances are it will take just as much for spain to see a regista as good as xavi.... and for italy to see another regista as good as pirlo.

what u just don't seem to understand is that u don't have to be a legend to be a good player. samuel isn't a legendary player, yet's he's absolutely outstanding. a truly world class cb. de rossi isn't a legend, but still he's one of the best players in the world in his role.
it's not like u're either nesta or u're crap. if every generation there were defenders as good as nesta, then nesta himself wouldn't be so special.

sirigu and marchetti are no buffon... but let me tell u, de gea too is no buffon. neuer too is no buffon. but that doesn't mean they're not worth looking at. they're all fantastic young keepers, with great margin of improvement, who might well become world class keepers someday.... maybe they all will become world class, maybe some of them will fail.... or maybe they will all disappoint.... who knows.

but honestly saying that italy isn't producing quality keepers only because none of the several promising young keepers (sirigu, marchetti, agazzi, viviano) will probably become a legend..... this is just a ridiculous comment.

and one last thing. i already said that, but maybe it got lost in my longest post, so i'll repeat myself (as u don't seem to have read it rfu). if u wanna measure the quality of a national school u don't have to pick legendary players as benchmarks. nor world class players..... not even good players. average players are the ones u have to use if u wanna value how good a school is.
because it is on average players that u can measure the impact of a school on the growth process of a football players.
saying the italian school is going backwards becouse none of our promising young keepers is going to be as good as buffon (or that none of our promising young defenders is gonna be as good as nesta) is utter NONSENSE.
because the italian school shouldn't get credit for buffon or nesta (or totti ot baggio or cannavaro), just like argentina shouldn't get credit for messi and maradona or spain shouldn't get credit for xavi and iniesta.
none of theese great players represent the average product of those national schools, so using them to rate their schools is just plain wrong.

sure barcelona, parma, roma, ajax, atalanta, bilbao, sevilla, have some great academies...... but not because they produced those legendary players u're thinking at. crujff didn't become crujff because of his teachers, he became a legend coz he had an unnatural talent and the right mindset. same goes for baggio or totti or buffon or xavi. u have to look at the average players those schools produce, to really measure how good they are... those who don't have a natural talent.... because there is where u can appreciate the impact of the teachers.

anyway, i rest my case on this topic.

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

really? and what about criscito? isn't criscito a starter in genoa?.... and what about chiellini and bonucci? aren't they both starters in juve? what about cassani and balzaretti? aren't they starters in a club wich is in the top half of the table as palermo?
and what about giovinco, who has been a starter in parma, once he left juve... or what about poli. he was a starter last season in samp, the same samp wich ended up 4th in serie a(this season he wasn't a starter, but he had some serious personal issues).
what about abate, who is fighting with cassani for the starting spot in the right back position for the italy team... isn't he a starter for milan?

was referring to U21 regulars over the years (Chellini is a good example although he was a leftback then, whatever happened to the CBs of his generation, Barzagli, Ferrari, Moretti, Bovo )... listen, you would be lucky to see more than 3 U21s graduate to the national team and become regulars, but this is just pitiful. Like only 2 of the current U21s play in serie a, none as regular starters, and that's not a problem for you?

oh that's a shocker! are u seriously expecting italy to produce another pirlo even before pirlo retired (pirlo is 32 FFS)? are u really expecting us to come up with another buffon any time soon?

nope, just some one to hand the baton to, someone to pick up where they left off, not expecting a player of the same quality for a good long time. would be nice though.

oh no guys, u got it all wrong.... u see, u would think marchisio is an excellent midfielder and that rossi and balotelli are two of the best young offensive players in europe..... but actually they aren't really anything special...those people in spain who consider rossi the best cf in la liga, they are just seriously overrating him......
... and u know who else is seriously overrated? pazzini..... i mean yeah, he scores for fun,, but let's be honest, he will never be as good as Pelè so he must be pretty crappy afterall... just like ranocchia..yeah the rest of the world is praising him as one of the very best prospects in europe in his role, but he's not likely to become as good as nesta or beckembauer, so what all this fuss is about?!! am i right rfu??!
and also criscito... yeah he's been doing great in the last 2 years, but let's be honest, he isn't world class... and if u're not world class today... if u're not among the 5\6 best players in the world in your role, then u're worth nothing. i mean if u're a young leftback and u're not gonna be as good as maldini, why bother?
and it's not just that. u see, u would think balzaretti and de rossi are 2 world class players... but actually they aren't. and that poli kid? massively overrated.
yeah, i gotta agree with rfu on this one, italy hasn't produced any quality players since nesta and buffon.

wow. okay. let me respond in kind:

... of course italy has produced italy players of international calibre over the years, U21 stars from Baronio to Maresca have just set the world alight on the international stage haven't they.... i mean heck, Donadoni and Lippi sure as hell had no problems vacating starting spots, leaving out vets like Cannavaro and Panucci who were told to stay home and watch their replacements do the country proud .... no one even broke a sweat wen Nesta succumbed to numerous injuries and then finally retirement... Lippi quipped to "this isn't a retirement home, let him go, we have Barzagli, Bovo, Ferrari, Cirillo and many many more..." when pressed about bringing in oriundi to make the squad more competitive, Lippi exclaimed: "we're not the french, we don't need unwanted bastard children to be more competitive, many of them don't even know our national anthem or even speak the language... if their own countries don't want them, why should we?" Meanwhile, U21 coaches Casaraghi and Gentile received praise for churning out generation after generation of first rate young footballers with great potential, the likes Blasi, Bonera, Marzoratti, Lupoli and Acquafreca, according to Casarghi, "we're lucky our players have been given chances to play with the top clubs and show their talent..." he added, "we expect big things from this group of players. I mean Lupoli scores for fun, I predict he will return to italy and go to either Milan or Inter. He's destined to become an all time great"

ok that was all in good fun, but lets be serious for a moment...

u have to look at the average players those schools produce, to really measure how good they are... those who don't have a natural talent

agreed. but fuck it why should average be the level of sammarco and dessena? why not aim higher: conti, c.zanetti, tommassi, brighi, filipini twins... fuck it, why not? why can't there be players as good as Volpi, Locatelli, Corini or Doni on the fringes of the NT? You think Mauri and Montolivo would get anywhere near the azzurri with them around??

I know i have a tendency to underrate, my expectations are high as hell, but you massively overrate some of these guys. How do you define world class? because me, i look at exposure, how much football has he played outside of his domestic league at a high level, neither Balzaretti, Cassani or Cricisto have, so to label them world class in their respective positions is a bit of a stretch for me. As for Rossi being the best cf's in la liga, i think you mean among the best, and that's a fair assessment, i rate him highly but he remains a promising player at this point.

And all these comparisons with Barcelona after 90 minutes versus Estonia are just.... (**palms face**). Perhaps evidence of how low we've set the bar of late.

P.S. Again, all I said about Ranocchia is that he's had an awful time at Inter, worse than awful more like tragic, definitely not worth mentioning among the seasons best XI. I never said he should be as good as Nesta, but I expected better than this. I do rate him tho and expect him to be around at Inter for a good long while.

 

[Hey there]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

I just love you italians talking about the national team: If it's crap, it's crap. If it's good, it's crap the same because they're not Brazil 70 well, you know, Germany has players like Großkreutz that well in Italy we dream about players like him, I mean, what we do have, Giovinco? He's good, yes, but he failed at Juventus so he mus be crap. And Balotelli? Oh, he's a twat and he's not italian, I mean, have you seen him? He's as black as he can get! And how about El Shaarawi? He should play for Egypt, am I right? Or Chiellini? Well Madrid wants him but he's clearly a mediocre player as Piquè is probably better than him, and if Italy can't play with Piquè then it makes no sense to play at all. Also, Cassano? He's fat and a bench warmer (in AC Milan), also who the hell is Abate? He's not famous, so he gotta be crap. Also he plays in Milan and Milan's president is a mafioso and they even lost to the Spurs!

Oh, how I envy players like Huddlestone and Barry, italian national team with them in the midfield would be much better. And how about that guy, Micah Richards? I mean, he's like the asshole twin of Ogbonna that acts like Balotelli on steroids but boy, he's huge and ENGLISH so he's good. And how about Bojan? Everybody loves Bojan, he's already much better than Balotelli and Giuseppe Rossi combined.

Spoiler

Before you ask, this is a resume of a discussion I had with a friend.

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

All Italian football is crap because Milan lost to Spurs and they are still relying on very old players like Pirlo while the likes of Barcelona rely on a much younger Xavi. When was the last time an Italian team won the CL? Spain and England seem to be dominating to me. Plus, they lost the 4th CL spot which is the sign of death of Italian football. Don't even get me started on the Europa League and the fully defensive tactics.

Anyway, agree with rfu on one point which is the defence. You just don't see that man humping marking of before but I think Ben pointed that out.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

... listen, you would be lucky to see more than 3 U21s graduate to the national team and become regulars, but this is just pitiful. Like only 2 of the current U21s play in serie a, none as regular starters, and that's not a problem for you?

no mate, that's a great thing infact. 21, 20, 19 years old players are obviously extremely unexperienced.... those who make italy's under 21 team are unexperienced yet talented...and precisely because of that they're usually signed by top class clubs, and that obviously makes it extremely complicated for them to get some starters playtime. they should go play in those teams wich can give em most playtime and possibly a starter spot.
therefore serie b is a much better place to be than serie a for a talented teenager. a serie b team can give them the playtime they crave, the experience they need, without putting too much pressure on them.
let me make some examples. after his first great performances with inter, santon had to deal with a huge ammount of pressure from the media, wich obviously had a terrible impact on his growth.... people started labelling him "the new maldini" or "the new facchetti" and bullshits like that. in just a few months santon's performances dropped dramatically. mourinho himself said that huge form drop was due to the unhealthy pressure the kid had to deal with. and to make things even worse, being a teenager playing for inter meant it was extremely complicated for him to get the playtime he needs to work on his confidence and to get experience. he began to find his form again only when he joined cesena.

immobile and marrone are 2 others very talented under italy 21 players. they're owned by juve. and juve wisely sent them on loan to grosseto and siena (both serie b teams).
now what do u think it would be best for their growth? to spend an entire season on juventus bench (with very little chance to get playtime and huge mediatic pressure) or to be sent in a small serie b team, where they have no pressure at all and a starter spot?

one of the most impressive youngsters in our under 21 team is fabbrini. unbelievably talented kid, a real joy to watch. this season in empoli he played 59 matches (just checked on wikipedia).... do u think a serie a team could have granted him such a huge experience in only one season?
serie b is the perfect place for a talented teenager to grow. so having so many under 21 players in serie b is absolutely not a problem. it's a good thing.

the most important things for a talented teenager are:
having a chance to get some consistant playtime (possibly a starting spot);
and not having any pressure at all. being able to grow and earn experience far away from the mediatic spotlight.
fabbrini and santon offer me a great example. after just a copule of matches with inter everyone knew santon. and not just in italy. football fans in china, japan, england and spain knew he was a very promising sideback. that's the kind of pressure he had to deal with.
fabbrini, on the other side, is still completely unknown to the public (wich is a good thing for him). despite being a fantastic promising youngster, i'm quite sure very few people in this forum ever heard his name (for instance). and playing for empoli he had a chance to get in 1 season alone more playtime (59 matches) than santon ever got in 3 years at inter (53 matches).
u see why it's a good thing for an italy under 21 player to play in serie b?

agreed. but fuck it why should average be the level of sammarco and dessena? why not aim higher: conti, c.zanetti, tommassi, brighi, filipini twins... fuck it, why not? why can't there be players as good as Volpi, Locatelli, Corini or Doni on the fringes of the NT? You think Mauri and Montolivo would get anywhere near the azzurri with them around??

because sammarco and dessena do represent the average standard mate. and not just here in italy... everywhere in the world.
those other players u mentioned are no average players. cristiano zanetti has been one of the best metodistas in europe in the last decade.... and if he wouldn't have been cursed with injuries, his carreer would have been a lot different. but quality wise, he's way above average. conti is a delightful regista. how many registas as good as him are there outside italy 20? maybe 30? when u think there are hundreds of registas all around europe, u can immediately realise a player like conti is no average player. corini in his prime was one of the very best registas in europe. his passing skills, his vision and his personality were on world class standards.... obviously there were other departments where he was far from world class standards (wich is the reason why he never made it to the top).... but he certainly wasn't an average player.
volpi offers me a chance to make a decent comparison. michael carrick is a very similar kinda player. their role was pretty much the same and also skill-wise they are pretty much on the same level (carrick is a bit more physical while volpi was a bit more technical, but still they were pretty close)..... would u rate carrick as an average premiership player? of course not. carrick is no world class player, but he's certainly above average.
corini, volpi, conti... we call theese very good players precisely because they're not average. expecting their standard to be the italian average standard is simply unrealistic. if players like volpi or corini (or mentioning current players, mauri and montolivo) were italian average players, then serie a would be by far the greatest league in the world and italy would be winning world cups without even trying hard.
but obviously being born in italy doesn't mean u're a genetically better football player, so our average is on par with the english average and the spanish average. of course our schools are different. the english school is primarily focused on physical skills, wich is why the average english football player is a better athlete than the italian average player..... while the italian school is more focused on technique and tactics.

I know i have a tendency to underrate, my expectations are high as hell, but you massively overrate some of these guys.

i don't overrate players rfu.... simply because i don't rate them at all. i don't even try, because i know it's pointless. take our conversation about ranocchia for instance. u criticized him because u thought he had a terrible season. then u implied he's probably overrated and that hummels is a better cb.
now, if u pay attention, i never told u ranocchia is better than hummels... neither i told u ranocchia is going to be a world class player for sure.
what i told u is that it's wrong to compare hummels performances this season with ranocchia's performances.... because while hummels remained in the same team... a team wich has been on fire all season long
- ranocchia had to change 3 clubs in 1 year.
- ranocchia had to adapt to 2 different defensive setups in less than 3 months (genoa's 3 men line and inter's 2 man line)
- ranocchia had to play almost every week with a different partner (because all inter's cbs suffered serious injuries this season... lucio, chivu, cordoba, samuel..... like i said that's 4 different partners in 5 months... and it's not easy to perform in theese conditions, especially if u're a young kid at your second season in serie a and at your first experience in a top club).
- ranocchia had to deal for the first time with the pressure that comes when u play for a top club like inter (wich is something hummels still didn't experience).
- ranocchia had to recover from a knee surgeon and 6 months injury.

and then i told u that, despite all that, i think u're still being extremely harsh on him, as almost everytime i watched him he was very good!

but i never overrated him.... i never rated him at all. infact i told u it's impossible to predict ranocchia's future.....

right now the only thing we can say about the likes of hummels or kjaer or ranocchia or bonucci or david luiz is that they're very promising young defenders, who might become world clas players. that's it.

judging youngsters on a single season is a huge mistake mate. u have to follow their development through the years to be able to distinguish their actual quality from form or other factors (personal problems, adaptation issues and so on).

How do you define world class? because me, i look at exposure, how much football has he played outside of his domestic league at a high level, neither Balzaretti, Cassani or Cricisto have, so to label them world class in their respective positions is a bit of a stretch for me. As for Rossi being the best cf's in la liga, i think you mean among the best, and that's a fair assessment, i rate him highly but he remains a promising player at this point

i consider "world class" a player who has proven himself as one of the best performers in europe in his role for at least 3 years. that's why i rate balzaretti as a world class player.
that is why i consider cassani NOT a world class player, but a very good player who has performed on world class standards for 1 year and a half.
that is why i consider criscito NOT a world class player but a great player (great or very good, u pick the word u prefere).
that is why i consider rossi NOT a world class player YET, but a great young player who is on the verge of becoming a world class player (btw, u're right about rossi... i didn't mean to say "the best cf in la liga" but "one of the best cf in la liga"..... and btw with rossi we're way past the "promising player" phase. rossi has already "kept his promise" of becoming a great player now).

u probably noticed that when i defined world class i didn't use the word "exposure". it's no coincidence. exposure means nothing in rating a player. there are several overrated players around europe, who get labelled as world class, despite not being world class..... and vice versa, there are several world class players (just like balzaretti) who get overlooked (probably because they're not fancy enough) despite having performed on world class standards for years.
stupid and ignorant fans refer to exposure to judge or label a player. therefore you are NOT allowed to use the word "exposure" when rating a player.

 

[fd1972uk]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Wow watching Italy vs Republic and jesus how bad a team is that they have, they are playing virtually a reserve Republic team and they ain't had a shot on the Ireland goal.

What a waste of a space they'll be in the Finals.


FD

 

[Hey there]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Wow watching Italy vs Republic and jesus how bad a team is that they have, they are playing virtually a reserve Republic team and they ain't had a shot on the Ireland goal.

What a waste of a space they'll be in the Finals.


FD

Problem?

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Ben, Fabbrini has a law degree and is actually supposed to be a very bright kid.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Wow watching Italy vs Republic and jesus how bad a team is that they have, they are playing virtually a reserve Republic team and they ain't had a shot on the Ireland goal.

What a waste of a space they'll be in the Finals.

oh boy. your national team just obtained a great result (nevermind the fact that the azzurri couldn't care less about that friendly and they didn't even bother trying..... a win against italy is always quite an achievement, especially considering there were several irish starters missing)....
... and instead of rejoicing for your team's result, u can't think of anything better than coming into a thread full of italians and telling them their team will be a "waste of space in the finals"..... now that's class!

anyway... at last the first loss (and also the first bad match) of the prandelli era came.... like many people said on tv yesterday, if it had to happen, i'm glad it happened against trap and ireland

one thing i didn't like is the fact we played that match on neutral turf. there were so many italian emigrants at the stadium in belgium yesterday. it was a special occasion for them to watch italy live, but this was just not the right match. a june friendly vs ireland... the last game of the season before the holydays.... it didn't take a genius to realise italy was gonna play shit. i think it would be better to pick more high profile matches (or at least not the last match before the holydays!) for theese occasions. i felt quite sorry for all those people at the stadium yesterday. they deserved a better show than that.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Ben, Fabbrini has a law degree and is actually supposed to be a very bright kid.

i was quite shocked reading that (law school in italy takes 4 or 5 years and fabbrini is 20, so in order to have a law degree already he should have started his university path at the age of 15!!), so i checked out on internet.
turns out he hasn't got a law degree yet (he's still at his first year at pisa's law school).
nontheless it's still extremely impressive. there aren't many young football players who continue their studies and go to a university.
plus pisa's law school is very though (it's one of the most prestigeous law schools in europe).
very impressive stuff!!

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Ben, Frank is Scottish, he's a very nice guy but can be cynical towards big teams now and then...
It seems "Ultima Scomessa" is sierious with Atalanta, Sienna but also Roma, Fiorentina, Genoa (again), Lecce and Cagliari implicated and Signori as a sort of ring leader...
Crazy story also about the Cremonese team that was drugged by their own GK...this is bad for Italian football (although this happens everywhere...something similar happened in Belgium a couple of years ago).

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

It's his second defeat, no ? Ivory Coast beat Italy just after the world cup didn't they, at West Ham?

I saw the game and I was suprised at how some of the "big names" really didn't play well at all. Marchisio, Chiellini, Giovinco, Viviano even Rossi and Matri. I thought Giamberini, Balzaretti and Montolivo were better, but for those previous players it could have been a great chance to try and make a case for being in the first team. Buffon is clearly not going to be a keeper for the future and they didn't take it.

I'd say Sirigu will be ahead of Viviano now, and some combination of Balotelli, Di Natale, Cassano and even Boriello would be ahead of Matri and possibly Rossi too.

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

now what do u think it would be best for their growth? to spend an entire season on juventus bench (with very little chance to get playtime and huge mediatic pressure) or to be sent in a small serie b team, where they have no pressure at all and a starter spot?

why only juventus or serie B? why can't they go to genoa or catania or lecce? i mean you have players like marilungo going from sampdoria to atalanta in serie B just to sit on the bench why couldn't he be Cassano's understudy? that's what used to happen (Pirlo at Brescia under Baggio). that's what happens now in other leagues. It used to be that 80% of the U21s played in serie a so what happened.

one of the most impressive youngsters in our under 21 team is fabbrini. unbelievably talented kid, a real joy to watch. this season in empoli he played 59 matches (just checked on wikipedia).... do u think a serie a team could have granted him such a huge experience in only one season?
serie b is the perfect place for a talented teenager to grow.

that's assuming serie B football brings the best out of them. but what would be better for them: playing week in, week out versus the likes Ascoli or against world champions inter

Seriously though, it would be more beneficial for these players to play at a high level. what's to learn defending against Ruppolo or Calaio? Now imagine these young CBs going up against Eto'o and Sanchez, week in, week out. That's what thier counterparts are doing in la liga (Azpilicueta, alvaro domínguez, didac Vila).

those other players u mentioned are no average players.

yeah i know, but imagine these guys were all around at the same time (didn't even mention Fiore, Ginachedda and Liverani) and they weren't even regulars with the national team. that's what Italy need now, so that players like Montolivo and De Rossi can either grow some balls and perform or just bugger off. Some of these guys are getting too comfortable. It's what happened with Acquafresca and Gilardino, I see it with Cassano and Balotelli (thank god for Rossi ), just arseing about because their places in the starting XI aren't threatened. And why should Italy be like everyone else? Wasn't the case 10 years. Who says it's unrealistic? Take Brazil for example, do you know how many no.10s they have? Like 20 I'm being serious. Now at least half of those will turn out to be garbage, but at least they'll keep the other half on their toes. That's what Italy needs IMO.

of course our schools are different. the english school is primarily focused on physical skills, wich is why the average english football player is a better athlete than the italian average player..... while the italian school is more focused on technique and tactics.

something should be done about that then.

but i never overrated him.... i never rated him at all. infact i told u it's impossible to predict ranocchia's future.....

my beef with you was wen you said he was in your seasons best XI. that's just ridiculous. in no shape or form was he one of the seasons best performers. I'm harsh? i bet you 80 plus percent of inter fans want his ass out I like Rano, I really do, i'll go ahead say it right now, he's going to be absolute quality in 5 years time (given how typically speaking, italians players peak quite late in their footballing careers).

i consider "world class" a player who has proven himself as one of the best performers in europe in his role for at least 3 years. that's why i rate balzaretti as a world class player.

the trouble there is that there's serious lack of LBs in world football at the moment so.... definitely rate him but world class.... thing is its real tough out there for a winger in serie a, even for menez and sanchez, space is really constricted so you can't just ran at defenders like they do in la liga. So could be argued Balzaretti isn't tested enough. Would need to see him perform outside of italy. like in champions league or the euro's next summer. That's what i mean by "exposure" by the way

oh boy. your national team just obtained a great result (let's omit the fact that the azzurri couldn't care less about that friendly and they didn't even bother trying.....

i knew you'd defend the result, some how. Anyhow, these surprise results can happen (incidentally, was just watching Italy's loss versus N. Korea, cracking game) but at least it stops these barca comparisons for the time being. Not convinced by this 4-3-1-2 formation, gives the sidebacks too much to do. while Balzaretti can generally be relied upon to attack and then quickly track back, neither Maggio or Cassani can. Against better sides Italy will undoubtedly be punished, i can just see Robben or Messi reveling in the spaces left behind. Prandelli needs a plan B for sure. In the meantime.... either of sanchez, gomez or ramirez have an italian passport a wide player is needed, ASAP.

nontheless it's still extremely impressive. there aren't many young football players who continue their studies and go to a university.
plus pisa's law school is very though (it's one of the most prestigeous law schools in europe).
very impressive stuff!!

Ventola was another one. didn't he do law too?

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

It's his second defeat, no ? Ivory Coast beat Italy just after the world cup didn't they, at West Ham?

yeah i seem to remember a loss vs ivory coast... was that under prandelli already? perhaps the first match after the world cup? can't rememeber right now.
anyway yesterday's game was really a waste of time... prandelli didn't manage to motivate the players for their last game of the season and the fact that we didn't have a single shot on goal kinda speaks for itself.

concerning the hierarchies, it's still a bit early. but right now i'd say pazzini and rossi are definitely ahead of balotelli and cassano. aquilani is ahead of giovinco. pirlo is ahead of montolivo. and obviously de rossi is ahead of marchisio (poor fella).
as for the gk position, buffon is the unquestioned starter (he's still only 33 edmundo, and if he stays away from injuries he still has 3 years at least to perform at his best).
the 2nd gk is sirigu. the 3 gk spot will be a battle between marchetti, viviano and agazzi i think. storari and abbiati would deserve a shot, but the 3rd goalkeeper is usually one for the future and storari and abbiati aren't exactly youngsters.
i can also see a serious battle between maggio, cassani and abate for the rightback position.

anyway everything is still "in becoming" as prandelli is experimenting quite a lot.... wich is normal as he has a lot of young material to work with.

why only juventus or serie B? why can't they go to genoa or catania or lecce?
....that's assuming serie B football brings the best out of them. but what would be better for them: playing week in, week out versus the likes Ascoli or against world champions inter

a serie b side it's better than a serie a midclas team because a serie b side can give them a starting spot and less pressure.
serie a midclass clubs can't afford too many "experiments" cos the competition between serie a midclass clubs is crazy.

i think timing is a key factor in the growth of a player. at that age playing as a starter against other serie b teams is much better than getting a few matches per season against a serie top side like inter.
let me remark that there's a huge difference between being a starter and being a sub. for an young player playing 20 matches as a starter is much better than playing 40 matches as a sub. being a starter is a completely different experience, regardless the ammount of playtime. and if u add to that the fact that a serie b team can also guarrantee them more playtime and less mediatic attention....

then, after 1 or 2 seasons in serie b, those who prove themselves as serie a material can step up.
take el sharaawi (the italian-egyptian kid) for instance. genoa sent him on loan to padova, where he did wonders all season long. he could have never played that much in genoa. and now genoa are saying that next season he'll be playing with them in serie a (and after proving himself in serie b, he will be a starter in genoa next season).

And why should Italy be like everyone else? Wasn't the case 10 years. Who says it's unrealistic? Take Brazil for example, do you know how many no.10s they have? Like 20 I'm being serious. Now at least half of those will turn out to be garbage, but at least they'll keep the other half on their toes. That's what Italy needs IMO.

because we were unbelievably lucky in the last 20 years.... it's pretty much the same thing that's happening in argentina right now. we've been blessed with an unnatural ammount of great players (i mean unnatural for a 60 millions people country)... all at their prime in the same 2 generations.... now things are getting back to normal.
brazil is a different story. they will always have much more great players than anyone else because they have a 200 millions people population.

my beef with you was wen you said he was in your seasons best XI. that's just ridiculous

theese top 11s are very subjective mate. it's just to have some fun, nothing serious. if u read again that post of mine u'll notice i explained why i picked ranocchia instead of other cbs who performed better than him (like cannavaro)... given how young he is and what he's gone through, i've been really impressed by him... but like i said, theese top 11s are nothing serious.

i knew you'd defend the result, some how. Anyhow, these surprise results can happen (incidentally, was just watching Italy's loss versus N. Korea, cracking game) but at least it stops these barca comparisons for the time being

i'm not defending them mate. they were bloody awful. but it was quite evident they couldn't give a f*** yesterday and were already thinking at some exotic resort is sicily, sardegna or ibiza
and btw i completely agree with u. those barca comparison were beyond ridiculous. imagine that after the germany match some nutcases said italy was already on the same level of the germans
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Gerd don't pay too much attention to what newspapers say.... they're going nuts over this story.... everyday they come out with new rumours.... and the day after those rumours turn out to be false. the only almost certain things are those about some serie b teams.
and yeah that story about the cremonese goalkeeper is absolutely insane. what an asshole!

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

Italy were awful, absolutely terrible but you would've thought even playing at around 50-60% of their usual level, they'd have enough to beat an extremely average Ireland side.

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

So what is the exact story on this Cremonese GK? Now I'm curious!

And I think in terms of positions, the most interesting one is for RB indeed! Maggio vs. Cassani vs. Abate! Now there's a good ol' Triple Threat match! I can't even pick myself! It's hard to pick between those 3. For now, Cassani and Maggio are still ahead of Abate for sure but in future if he keeps developing as he has in last 18 months then who knows....

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2010/11 Season

So what is the exact story on this Cremonese GK? Now I'm curious!

the picture that is coming out of the investigations is quite hilarious to be honest. i mean we've already seen theese sort of betting scandals... it's happened before (the most recent precedents are germany and greece).... and it's always the same story. there's always organized crime behind theese betting movements, corrupted referees, sometimes also team managers and club owners.......

but this scandal seems to be something quite different. no big criminal organizations.... no referees involved and also no direct responsibility from the clubs.....
apparently it's just a unch of losers (some ex-football players, some current serie b players, and a few other shady carachters).

a key role has been played by former cremonese goalkeeper marco paoloni. an imbecile with a serious gambling problem. despite making 10k euros per month with cremonese, this poor excuise for a man has debts for more than 150k euros. him and a couple of fuckers with gambling issues like him (beppe signori, the owner of a betting agency, a dentist and a few other carachters) tried to fix some serie b matches and bet heavy on those matches.

but how could they fix the matches without involving the referee? well they tried to persuade the players "to sell themselves" (and that's where cristiano doni comes into play... apparently he's one of those who reached an agreement with those bastards).
but obviously it's extremely difficult to fix a game this way..... i mean u either manage to corrupt at least 5 or 6 players of both teams or it's not gonna work.... yet they never managed to persuade more than 2 or 3 players.... wich is why half of the time those funny bunch tried to fix some matches they failed.... according to the investigations they had a success ratio of about 50%.
LOL! what a bunch of idiots. running such risks for such a lousy result... i could do better than that 50%... and without fixing any match!

here are 3 episodes that can give u an idea of how amateurish this whole thing was. italian authorities were able to discover those episodes coz they tapped Paoloni's phone for months.

LECCE-INTER: paoloni talks on the phone with one of his "friends". he tells him they should all bet heavy on the lecce-inter game that is going to occurr in a few days. he specifically tells them to bet on "over 3.5" goals and that he had a chat with corvia (lecce striker) to make sure everything run smoothly.
eventually the lecce-inter match ends up 0-1 and those idiots lose a fortune (signori alone lost over 150k euros on that match).... why the plan didn't work, u might ask......
simple because paoloni (the fucker) never talked with corvia. he made the whole thing up! there was no agreement with anyone to fix the match.
so this paoloni isn't just a gambler... he's also a mithomaniac who likes to brag about his "connections".

on another circumstance Paoloni suggested his friends to beat heavy on a roma match.... he said he had a chat with de rossi and the whole situation was well "under control"....... once again the italian investigators found out paoloni never talked with de rossi...... who btw wasn't even playing in that period as he as injured.

however they didn't always fail.... in some serie b matches they actually manage to corrupt enough players on both teams to actually achieve the expected result and cash big sums of money.

but the craziest episode of them all concerns a cremonese-paganese match (in lega pro). paoloni was cremonese's goalkeeper those days. he and his friends bet heavy on a paganese win (paganese was the underdog)....
but at halftime and cremonese is already leading 2-0 (LOL!).
so our friend paoloni has the brilliant idea to drug his own teammates, putting some sedative into their bottle of water and tea. as a result of that, during the 2nd half paoloni's teammates can't string 2 passes together......
but unfortunately paganese players are so crappy they can't beat cremonese even in theese conditions....
the match ends 2-0 for cremonese..... paoloni and his friends lose the 70k euros they bet on a paganaese win
after the match several cremonese players start to feel sick and go to the hospital... one of em even has an accident with his car on his way back to home (luckily without any consequences).
after the clinical analysis on cremonese players, the pubblic attorney office of cremona opened an inquiry on the match and eventually discovered paoloni's plan (what a masterpiece!!!).

gentlemen, this is the criminal mastermind.... marco paoloni..... probably the stupidest criminal in the world right now.

Italy were awful, absolutely terrible but you would've thought even playing at around 50-60% of their usual level, they'd have enough to beat an extremely average Ireland side.

i don't think there's any national team out there today which could beat a lesser opponent without being 100% focused on the match... i mean look at what happened to argentina against nigeria a few days ago.