Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

gerd said:
There is a rumour that Van Persie would go to Juventus next season...
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yeah that rumour is pretty strong here in italy aswell. that would be an amazing addition for juve. i like matri a lot, he's a very nice player.... but van persie belongs to a different level.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

Van Persie?! That would be huge for Juve. They have been saying for a year now that they want to add quality.

Milan have to replace Nesta now! What a hard task. Mexes, the one that was supposed to do that, proved not reliable enough.

Milan also have to find a guy that can fill van Bommel's shoes. He is on his way to PSV. And the ever lasting left back position. Should be an interesting summer.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

I would love to see falcao at juve but highly doubt that they can handle his hefty price tag.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

Grazie Nesta... one of my favourite and one of the best defenders of the last decade. I think only Thiago Silva has come close to his level recently... I can't think of anyone that comes close in terms of technique.

Milan have signed a French/African player called Traore from Nancy... seems like more muscle. I don't like how Allegri loves muscle..... no creativity so there's no desire for the midfield to experiment.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

Let's be honest, Stefano. The Milan squad has a lot of holes. It might be a slight exaggeration, but Ibrahimovic destroying the small teams is what kept your team competing this season..
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

And what will happen when Inter win 2 more? They'd want the second star. You'd share stars with them. This thing needs to be settled once and for all.

Dominic said:
Let's be honest, Stefano. The Milan squad has a lot of holes. It might be a slight exaggeration, but Ibrahimovic destroying the small teams is what kept your team competing this season..
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So true. Ibra and some penalties is what kept us in the race. Robinho needs to go and we need a player in place of Boateng. Too much muscle and no flair.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

If it is that important to Juventus and their fans: well let them have 3 stars. It is strange how intelligent people are able to delude themselves.
If Inter win two more: give them also stars.

In football the match that really matters is the next one. All wins in the past count for nothing if you start the next match.

Why all the fuss about some silly stars.

Most neutral fans know better.

You know what is utterly sad and has some bitter irony to it?

With all the talk about the 30 scudetti Juve and their fans divert attention from the magnificent season they just had (if they don't loose the last match, it will even be an historical one) and what is the result? Once again people talk about Moggipoli and that when Juventus finally succeeded to bury that unsavoury past.

When they should be proud about recent achievements, they shoot themselves in the foot.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

:LOL: Juve fans are hilarious. Reminds me of Liverpool fans and their claim to 20 titles because they'd won the North Championships Second Round in 1943 or something stupid.

You cheated, you lost the titles, get over it.

Had they looked further back they might've given Inter the title in 1998 as well.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

Nesta, Gattuso and Seedorf are leaving Milan. Great players that have served the club loyally and have won us so many trophies. I think Pippo is next, followed by Van Bommel (to PSV).

Would love a sort of farewell game where Pirlo-Gattuso-Seedorf-Rui Costa could play together in a midfield, with Shevchenko and Pippo up front, Nesta-Maldini-Cafu-Serginho defence, and Dida in goal. Ancelotti managing...
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

Inzaghi left also. Zambrotta might be on the way with van Bommel. That's some big change happening all at once. Milan have no choice but to renew to Flamini now and try to replace these guys. Some huge shoes to fill.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

:LOL: Flamini has the 2nd highest contract at Milan I believe..... after Zlatan.

We've already signed Traore from Nancy, Montolivo and apparently Acerbis is on his way. We're linked to Ogbonna and Matias Silvestre. I think we need to invest in a totem of a midfielder who can play for several years and become a major force in our midfield. Serginho recently said that we're still close to Ganso, who's price has dropped.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

lo zio said:
good question. so far the federcalcio (that's the name of the italia FA) has been way too tolerant with this crap. if abete (federcalcio president) cares about his credibility he better step up and shut up agnelli the next time he mentions the "3rd star".
most italian journalists believe that as soon as juve will put the 3rd star on their shirt, hell will rain down on them from federcalcio.... i hope so, but from what i've seen so far, i find that unlikely to happen.
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At least today the King spoke up. Can FIFA have the power to end this historical revisionism?

lo zio said:
dealing with defeat seems to be an italian problem. we cannot accept a defeat, whatever its form ans shape may be. we can't accept a defeat in a football game, or in an election... not even in court. even the most unquestionable defeat, a guilty verdict, won't be aknowledged for what it is by an italian..... "no, the judges and the jury got it all wrong.... i was made a scapegoat.... it's all a set up". we will come up with any possible excuse, rather than admitting an unpleasing outcome. and that's what juventus is doing right now with this 30th scudetto crap.
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I don't want to sound offensive or harsh, but italian's main stereotype is linked to mafia, and this reluctance to accept a court verdict is not helping to have a better image in the world. It remembers me Capone in the final scene of The Untouchables, when he refuses to accept he's guilty and he starts to insult the policeman.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

I don't think its ridiculous [us] Juventus fans.. of course we are delighted with this seasons achievement and the fact we've gone this far after being demoted to Serie B is a sensational achievement and reward for us, and for the ones who remained at the club. But for us those scudetti they stole from us were won on the pitch, regardless of what happened, the players on the pitch gave their all (they didn't know what was happening, nor did the fans..) therefore, we celebrated for the HARD WORK of our players and support from the fans.

I watched those seasons, and I celebrated like a mad kid when we lifted the trophy, so for me these are 30 scudetti that our team won on the pitch.

But of course what Lo Zio is absolutely correct, we are the most stubborn nation! Our fans, our politicians, our everything can never accept a loss 'fairly'. Obviously I'm biased on this Juventus situation for obvious reasons, but its only natural [and stupidly] that we want our 30 trophies!

Gerd although I agree with your statement "In football the match that really matters is the next one. All wins in the past count for nothing if you start the next match." Our past is what makes this club so wonderful, our team so desperately wants to regain the feeling of a 'champions' club that we once felt when we were seen as a major force in the Champions League. So although you're right.. we should concentrate on the next match, but the recognition of our past, of the 30 scudetti (3 golden stars) signifies our hard work and passion for the club. Also to me it's important as a symbol for the players like Buffon, Del Piero, Chiellini etc who continued to help the club in Serie B and helped up rise to this title, they deserve these titles.

The prospect of Van Persie coming is very exciting, I would much prefer him to Suarez (but i highly doubt he'll come after his decent run of form for LFC), however this does cause concern for our current line-up of strikers, Matri hasn't started as much recently due to Conte's Vucinic-Quagliarella or Vucinic-Borriello preference, if we do get VP I doubt we'll keep Borriello.. I would feel sad for Quagliarella as he's one of my favourite strikers and he just signed a new contract! We have too many strikers at Juve including Iaquinta who will be returning from Cesena at the end of the season. Therefore, we have Quagliarella, Vucinic, Matri, Borriello (possibly as Conte really likes him) and Iaquinta (probably will leave).

What I do find funny though is the amount of football fans (mainly us Italians) who still complain about Juve being 'cheaters', clearly you haven't watched us this season.

Forza Juve!
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

My friend matt 1288,

People who say Juventus cheated this season, are ignorant or jealous. A club who is the best at end of a league championship is always the best, let alone when they haven't lost a single match until the last day (and i hope they don't loose their last match).

About that thrid star: i understand Juve fans, but i don't agree. I used to be a fan of a cheating club myself. The club was the second club from Brussel (RWDM), won one championship, got once two the semi-finals of the UEFA Cup and for a time even had the European record of matches without defeat in Europe. It wasn't a big club, but a good solid Belgian club with passionate and very fair fans. They also cheated with taxes and the club lost it's license which means that it simply stopped existing. The club started again, but one can only do that at the very lowest level in Belgium. That means 8 (eight) divisions lower than the highest division. Of course the club will never reach the highest level because since then the difference between professional clubs and amateur clubs got bigger.

What do i think about all this? I think it was a just punishment (what makes it worse that the signature that sealed my clubs fate, was the signature of...my own wife). Of course my wife being implicated, this is a case i know well and i have to say with my wife's decision: football clubs are not above the law.

If you compare Juventus' fate to my favourite club, they can consider themselves lucky. And the fact that Juventus is a much bigger club than RWDM is totally irrelevant IMO.

It could well be that other big Italian clubs have also cheated, well then they should also be punished, nut IMO this doesn't change anything about Juve's punishment. One will not stop murderers because sometimes murderers come away with their crime.


All this said, everybody should forget about the past. Juventus got punished and they are back on the highest level. Like i already said: this is a good thing for Italian and European football.

Why do i mention the past? Because Juventus and their fans started it....

Enjoy this fantastic achievement and be proud of what Conte and his players did. I hope Juve does well in next season's CL.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

Matt said:
I don't think its ridiculous [us] Juventus fans.. of course we are delighted with this seasons achievement and the fact we've gone this far after being demoted to Serie B is a sensational achievement and reward for us, and for the ones who remained at the club. But for us those scudetti they stole from us were won on the pitch, regardless of what happened, the players on the pitch gave their all (they didn't know what was happening, nor did the fans..) therefore, we celebrated for the HARD WORK of our players and support from the fans.

I watched those seasons, and I celebrated like a mad kid when we lifted the trophy, so for me these are 30 scudetti that our team won on the pitch.
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that is absolutely understandable mate. but u gotta keep the 2 things separated. respect for the players who gave everything they had on the pitch (without knowing they were being helped by someone else), respect for the fans, who had to endure the humiliation of the scandal, the serie b season, the reconstruction of the club board and the team and all of this for the frauds commited by someone else (moggi and giraudo).......

BUT it must also be cristal clear that the seasons 2004\2005 and 2005\2006 were tainted by corruption, that juventus was stripped of those 2 scudetti not for some ridiculous conspiracy but because of the documented frauds perpetrated by the people who were running the club at that time. these are facts proven in 2 different trials, and both sentences stated juventus responsibilities very clearely. there's no deying that.

i have huge sympathy for the juventus players and fans, they were the biggest victims of that scandal, as both the players and the fans had no role in that scandal; they had no idea what was going on "behind the curtains" and yet they payed a huge price. but that doesn't mean calciopoli didn't happen.
gerd said:
If it is that important to Juventus and their fans: well let them have 3 stars. It is strange how intelligent people are able to delude themselves.
In football the match that really matters is the next one. All wins in the past count for nothing if you start the next match.
Why all the fuss about some silly stars.
You know what is utterly sad and has some bitter irony to it?

With all the talk about the 30 scudetti Juve and their fans divert attention from the magnificent season they just had (if they don't loose the last match, it will even be an historical one) and what is the result? Once again people talk about Moggipoli and that when Juventus finally succeeded to bury that unsavoury past.
When they should be proud about recent achievements, they shoot themselves in the foot.
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Gerd your post is balanced and reasonable as always, and i actually agree with u. if it was just about juve fans, i'd have no problem with this situation..... afterall juve fans were victims of calciopoli, just like anyone else (perhaps more than anyone else).
but u see, there's more than this. people tend to hide their skeletons in their closets and forget about them. this time i'm not specifically referring to italians. all over the world we all tend to pretend the most shameful and embarassing chapters in our history never happened. and that's the real danger here (baxter used the word "revisionism" wich is absolutely appropriate to the situation). the calciopoli scandal destroyed the image of italian football all over the world. unfortunately there's nothing we can do about it now. but what we can do is try our best to prevent that from happening again. and if we wanna do this we must always remember. we must always remember what happened and how it happened. otherwise it might well happen again.

making mistakes isn't tragic, it's part of our life. what's really tragic is to forget about the mistakes we've done or to pretend they never happened. because if u try to forget your past and to deny your history, u won't ever grow, u won't ever change, nor improve, nor learn from your mistakes. calciopoli was a terrible stain in serie a's history.... but pretending it never happened and trying to hide that stain, that would be a much bigger tragedy than calciopoli itself.
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

baxter said:
At least today the King spoke up. Can FIFA have the power to end this historical revisionism?
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the problem is "the king has no clothes". blatter has no credibility whatsoever in italy and whatever he says is basically considered irrelevant. uefa on the other side could do much more to end this embarassing situation, but platini is carefully avoiding to take any position. just last week he said "this is an italian problem, not a uefa problelm". that's bullshit of course. this IS also a uefa problem, but uefa made it clear they don't want to get involved in this. so i believe it's up to us and the italian federation... and that doesn't fill me with confidence, to be honest (but who knows, perhaps the federcalcio will surprise me).
baxter said:
I don't want to sound offensive or harsh, but italian's main stereotype is linked to mafia, and this reluctance to accept a court verdict is not helping to have a better image in the world. It remembers me Capone in the final scene of The Untouchables, when he refuses to accept he's guilty and he starts to insult the policeman.
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don't worry mate, that's not offensive nor harsh. but i would suggest u to keep the concepts of "social traits" and "image" well separated.
social traits are behaviours, ways to perceive reality and to elaborate feelings wich are common to the people living in a specific country in a specific time (today's italians are different from medieval italians). people who live in the same country for a long period of time tend to develop common social traits because of their cultural background.
it's pretty much the same thing that happens inside a family. u and your brothers\sisters will develop your own temperament of course, but some traits in your characters will be extremely similar, because u have the same cultural background (education, enviromental factors, past experiences).
so, long story short, social traits are something "real", they are somewhat reliable. of course they don't apply necessarily to everyone (i know plenty of italians with no creativity whatsoever and a great sense of duty for instance), but on a larger national scale those traits are quite recurring (behavioural science is focused on studying theese common "national traits").

what u call "image" instead (referring to the mafioso tipycal image) is just a representation of stereotypes offered by media and litterature. unlike social traits, "image" is mostly folklore, and is absolutely unreliable. the mafioso image is one of italy's most famous stereotypes. but it wasn't mafia itself who pushed this image, nor italy. media and litterature can have a much bigger impact than the truth, than history, than reality. a guy in america or in england or in japan watches the sopranos and he will be naturally inclined to believe that there is something "real" (or even just realistic) about what he's watching. today mafia is almost dead (at least in italy). all the major bosses of the last 20 years are in prison, along with their families and mafia's influence over italian people and politicians is close to 0. as a matter of fact mafia is today one of the least powerful crime organizations in europe.... even in italy there are other organizations, like camorra, 'ndrangheta and those chinese gangs wich are much more powerful and dangerous than mafia today.... but no one outside italy even knows that. more than 6 billions people live on this planet. only a few of them have ever lived in italy for more than a few months (or have an italian friend who can explain them a things or 2 about italy)..... but u can be sure many, many of them have watched at least once in their life the godfather or the goodfellas or the sopranos. that's the power of media and folklore.

and that's why we shouldn't concern ourselves with our image. it's not somehing that depends on us and there's little we can do about it, so why bother. take serie a for instance. ask 1000 football fans from all over the world what they think about serie a and the other european leagues. most of them, at some point, will mention serie a's defensive nature. some of them won't even mean it in an offensive way..... actually some of em might even find it a good aspect of italian football. anyway most of them will agree that iserie a is a more defensive league than, say, the epl. this is false, but people will repeat that, because this is serie a's image. and mind u i'm not just talking about some ignorant fans; even professionals (football players, coaches, pundits, people who should know better) will repeat those bullshits. and that's how powerful (and irrelevant) "image" is.

u wanna know how and when this stereotype was born? 40 years ago, serie a coaches created some sort of a tactical revolution in italy. now i won't explain what happened exactly as it would take too much time, but let's just say that in a few years serie a turned into an unbelievably boring league, where all the teams wer playing the very same brand of conservative football. as a result of that, the "average goals per matches" ratio decreased enourmously. just a few stats, to give u an idea of what i'm talking about.
season 51/55 - 3,87 goals per match
seasons 61/66 - 2.77 goals per match
seasons 66/71 - 2,04
seasons 72/76 - 2,02
seasons 76/81 - 2.00 (lowest goals-per-match ratio ever in the top european leagues!!!)
seasons 82/86 - 2,10
seasons 87/91 - 2,12
u can clearely see why serie a earned the label of defensive league! during that same period the english league goal per match average was much higher and the same goes for all the other major leagues. so for about 25 years (from 1966 to 1992) serie a was indeed a defensive league. then the sacchi revolution changed everything. today the average goals per matches ratio in serie a is on par with every other top european league (just look at this season; in the epl the ratio is 2.8 goals per match while in serie a is 2.6).
but despite that most of the fans, players, coaches and journalists still talk of serie a as if we were in the mid 70s or in the early 80s! the man marking era ended 20 years ago in italy, and yet people still use the same stereotypes and cliches to picture serie a's image.

sorry for the double posting, but those were 2 completely unrelated topics and i thought it was better to separate them in 2 different posts
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

I've always hated Van Bommel, mainly because I thought he was a mercenary and was a very dirty player. Seeing him in tears when he announced he was leaving Milan really changed how I feel about him. Never the less, he was incredible at MIlan and was so important in controlling opponents. Not as effective this season as last year, but still an incredibly effective player.

Watch this clip from 3:10 onwards - YouTube - interview with Van Bommel 12-05-2012

Van Bommel
Gattuso
Nesta
Seedorf
Inzaghi

Who's next? Aquilani!
 
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Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

@lo zio
First of all, your posts are a joy to read, always full of interesting stories. I didn't know the one about Serie A being called defensive, thank you.

Milanista said:
Van Bommel
Gattuso
Nesta
Seedorf
Inzaghi

Who's next? Aquilani!
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Zambrotta, according to rumors?
Aquilani will probably be back to Liverpool, I read because he didn't play a fixed number of games.
BTW today Allegri announced Montolivo's deal is done.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

Van Bommel is a very, very nice guy off the field. He mays sometimes be a vilain on the pitch, but he strikes me as intelligent and i know for sure he is a nice person. Currently he is doing all kind of things to help Jean-marc Bosman.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

Man, this Milan match was hard to watch. Pippo and Nesta crying when they were coming on... and when Pippo scored that winner - the whole stadium exploded.

The farewell ceremony is really sad too - Ambrosini and Abbiati couldn't hold themselves back and were crying, as they're the last remaining senators. Gattuso did well to not break down until the end of the game he teared up.

:(

FORZA SUPER PIPPO, RINO, SANDRO, ZAMBRO AND GENERALE VAN BOMMEL!!!!

- Seedorf isn't confirmed yet.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

I really enjoyed Lazio vs Inter match today...can`t believe Inter loses out of CL.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

Milanista said:
Man, this Milan match was hard to watch. Pippo and Nesta crying when they were coming on... and when Pippo scored that winner - the whole stadium exploded.

The farewell ceremony is really sad too - Ambrosini and Abbiati couldn't hold themselves back and were crying, as they're the last remaining senators. Gattuso did well to not break down until the end of the game he teared up.

:(

FORZA SUPER PIPPO, RINO, SANDRO, ZAMBRO AND GENERALE VAN BOMMEL!!!
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after watching this and seeing Gattuso, Van Bommel & the others in tears, now I can feel for you Milanista. Inzaghi.. what a goalscoring legend! at the age of 38, his last ever match for Milan and he still could do his thing and make Milanistas go crazy with his brilliance.. so sad and proud moments for fans.. but Milan is Milan and after a couple years goes by, I'm sure they'll get their own legends once again.

YouTube - Honor the legends at the San Siro - Nesta, Gatusso, Sedorf, Pippo, Zambrotta and Bommel

despite all the sad moments in the video, at 12:15, couldn't help laughing at that little kid. I think Milan will have their next Ibra in 20 years. :D
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

What an emotional night! Didn't expect van Bommel to burst into tears like that as he has only been here for a year but everyone speaks about how important these legends are in the dressing room and how they make everyone feel part of the group. Going to be a lot different without them. Milan after these departures is not the same.
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

End of an era it seems with Del Piero and Inzaghi both bowing out. :((
 
Re: Serie A Thread - 2011/12 Season

Alessandro Del Piero has written an open letter to fans after he ended his Serie A career with Juventus on Sunday.

The veteran lifted the Scudetto trophy yesterday afternoon to cap off 19 seasons with the Old Lady of Italian football.

With just the Coppa Italia Final left to play for, he’s illustrated his devotion to the club and its fans with the farewell message below.

NOTHING CAN BE BETTER THAN...

Than eight Scudetti.

Than* a promotion from Serie B.

Than a Coppa Italia (let's hope two).

Than four Italian Super Cups.

Than a Champions League

Than a European Super Cup.

Than an Intercontinental Cup.

Than a goal scored against Fiorentina.

Than a Del Piero style goal.

Than a goal in Tokyo.

Than my tears.

Than a goal in Bari.

Than a back-heel volley goal in the derby.

Than a goal for the Avvocato.

Than a tongue stuck out in a game against Inter.

Than an assist to David.

Than goal number 187.

Than a goal in Germany.

Than Berlin.

Than a goal scored against Frosinone.

Than a top goalscorer title in Serie B.

Than a top goalscorer title in Serie A.

Than a standing ovation at the Bernabeu.

Than 704 matches in the black and white jersey.

Than 289 goals.

Than a free-kick scored that meant the Scudetto.

Than a goal against Atalanta.

Than any record.

Than the No 10 jersey with the name Del Piero.

Than the captain's armband.

Nothing, but...what you have given me in these 19 years.

I'm happy that you have smiled, cheered, cried, sung, shouted for me and with me.

No colour will ever be brighter for me than black and white.

You've made my dream come true. More than any other thing, today I just want to say THANK YOU.

Always by your side

Alessandro
 
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