Arsenal Thread

Talking of Vieira earlier, a nice little post here;

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/a-tribute-to-patrick-vieira

dplane yep that period from the late nineties to early 2000's with the things we won and the players we had have made us much more well known over the world and have brought about many more fans for the club, especially abroad.

But we were a well supported club before that ;)) but there is no doubt that success and star players bring on a lot more support for clubs in general. Along with our old style of play as well, it brought us many admirers.

Hopefully one day we can get back to being near that Arsenal...or better hopefully :))
 
From The Racing Post . com:
Wenger critics need to look at the bigger picture

By Bruce Millington 4:23PM 21 FEB 2013
THE enthusiasm with which people line up to kick lumps out of Arsenal is as mystifying as it is depressing. And never have the club come under such a barrage of criticism as they have in the wake of their defeat by Bayern Munich this week.

Cowering like a puppy who has urinated on the carpet once too often for its brute of an owner, Arsene Wenger is taking blows from all directions. The media are having a field day, former Gunners stars are wading in and fans are short-circuiting phone-in switchboards in their rabid desire to slag off the team they are supposed to support.

It’s monumentally unpleasant to witness and the critics should stop hurling abuse and ask themselves why they are so surprised at the way Arsenal’s season is panning out.

In an almost certainly futile attempt to provide some balance, let’s take a look at some boring old facts that suggest Wenger’s side are experiencing only a slightly worse season than normal rather than taking part in some evil sabotage plot to turn the club into Telford United.

Arsenal have just played in the knockout stages of the Champions league for the 13th consecutive season. They lie sixth in the Premier League and will, if they win their game in hand, be just three points behind the team in fourth place.

They have a beautiful new stadium which doesn’t come with any crippling outstanding debt, their squad contains some of the most coveted young footballers in England and they are not on the road to financial ruin as a consequence of a reckless transfer policy.

On Tuesday they lost at home to a team that anyone who spares more than a few seconds a week to look at what’s happening in mainland Europe will be well aware is now virtually on a par with the magnificence of Real Madrid and Barcelona.

Clearly, it cannot be regarded as one of Wenger’s finest campaigns. Failure to mount a sustained challenge in either domestic cup competition has been disappointing, and a points haul of 34 from 21 matches is on the lean side even based on realistic expectations rather than the hysterically excessive ones that Arsenal seem to be lumbered with at the start of each season.

But this is Arsenal. They cannot match the spending capability of Manchester United, Manchester City or Chelsea. They are a club who have, due to the success Wenger brought them in the first half of his 16-year spell as manager and the sensible approach of the board, established themselves as roughly the fourth most powerful team in English football.
They play stylishly, manage their affairs in a reasonably inoffensive manner and are generally a team who have brought far more good than harm to the Premier League under Wenger. Yet whenever their performances fall short of expectations he gets savaged.

Press conferences, for all the lavish media coverage they get, are usually stunningly boring occasions.

Before the Bayern clash, however, Wenger made one of them genuinely interesting as he mounted a passionate defence of all things Arsenal, and the press gave it back to him with interest the following day.

Yet the same press allowed Roberto Mancini, who to my mind has done a far worse job this season, to claim he’s been the best manager in England over the last 15 months without any accompanying critical comment of this preposterous boast.

City’s defence of their league title has been woeful, their European challenge, albeit hampered by a horrible group draw, fizzled out tamely, and their general regression reflects badly on a manager who is doing a superb job of living up to the old adage that it’s harder to stay at the top than to get there in the first place.

Wenger would be far more successful than Mancini at City and the way he is being slaughtered by so many Arsenal fans makes me yearn for him to head north-west and prove the point next season.

Meanwhile, if I supported Liverpool I’d be far more pessimistic about the Reds’ prospects next term than Arsenal fans should be about their own aspirations.

They are hugely reliant on the superb Luis Suarez and if he is tempted away in the summer it would weaken the Merseysiders considerably.

Yet, while other clubs are allowed to underperform in relative peace, when Arsenal come up short to any degree the noise is enormous and the criticism savage and unjust.

Wenger has been a huge asset to English football. Without him Manchester United would have been so completely dominant that it’s possible the likes of Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour wouldn’t even have entertained the notion of trying to buy a club with a view to competing with them.

He has created wonderfully attractive sides and nurtured young players for the benefit of the national team. Yes, the trophy cabinet door hasn’t swung open for a long time, but he deserves far more respect than he is getting, not least from Arsenal fans who may well now be supporting a club the equivalent of Aston Villa if he hadn’t come along.
 
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First of all, the Bergkamp statue is the signing of the season :P
About freaking time that! The man's a legend and the main reason I started following the club.
Having excellent players and playing in the CL also played a big part in that (since around 98-99 the Premier League wasn't broadcast to Brazil, so I had to watch the Gunners only in the CL).

I'm afraid missing out on CL would be a massive blow to the club's status and future fan base indeed. That's why it's so important to catch up with the top 4 and make sure we finish among those.

Now, saying Arsenal would be like Villa if it wasn't for Wenger is preposterous. The club had been winning trophies before Wenger. Arsenal had 10 League titles before Wenger came, wasn't it? There's no denying it was already a very tradition club in England. What Wenger did was take the club to the next level, and it culminated in the move to the new stadium.
But now we are finally getting there, where we have a much bigger match day revenue thanks to the stadium. Now we need to invest the money directly in the football squad.
Wenger is struggling though, with his stubborn ways and because the times have changed. There's no denying that Chelsea and City made a huge dent into our hopes and ambitions, just as we were making the transition.
Think of all the players that departed to those clubs, and all the transfer targets who were snapped up form under Wenger's noses. To me, Mata is the greatest and latest example.

But I agree with the bit about Mancini. I find his excuses for being so far behind United hilarious. Can you imagine a Man City manager with all that investment made into his side saying that they needed more signings? :LOL:
Just try and work at Arsenal, Roberto! Ask Wenger :D
 
I agree when blood is in the water the sharks will circle. I too was sheep that followed what was in front. I just realize We were walking in circle. I think rent is brave although he was pissing me off internally :LOL: I even call him a trader sry bra! Now I see the truth! No more excuses come clean n be honest . We either won't compete or choose not too.


Wenger is good and I can never take that away from him. I'm concern with now I read Arshavin refuses to leave and wants to stay in London the facts are Wenger has too many high end below players making massive wages. £17m short to Mutd wage bill and £50m more to Tottenham . It's crazy! And Wenger needs to take blame w such madness .
 
According to the Russian press Arshavin wants to get UK residency so doesnt want to leave until Jan 2013 - this will give him the 5 years. There are reports that his agent had lined up loan moves to Reading / Fulham but the Arsenal board wouldnt agree to them, as they either wouldnt make up the shortfall in wages or wouldnt buy him out of his contract.
 
gerd said:
Rentboy, Aston Villa had won a ECI cup...Arsenal never...you can't say that Villa never won silverware...
Click to expand...

Pardon my ignorance Gerd, but I don't know what a ECI cup is?

Anyway, I didn't say Villa never won stuff, did I? All I'm saying is that I don't think they have ever been of the same calibre as Arsenal.
If you analyse historically, only Manchester United and Liverpool are ahead of Arsenal in terms of domestic titles, popularity and tradition. They are the top winners of the domestic League, one has 18 titles, the other has 20... and Arsenal is the third with 13 titles. Then there's Everton and then Aston Villa in number of league titles.

Then there is of course the Champions League that Chelsea won and Arsenal didn't. But I wouldn't trade a couple of English league titles for one CL title, and Abramovich will have to spend his fortune still for many years to come to make his club more traditional than Arsenal.
 
Rentboy said:
Now, saying Arsenal would be like Villa if it wasn't for Wenger is preposterous. The club had been winning trophies before Wenger.
Click to expand...

When Wenger came, Arsenal was named "Boring Arsenal" and they played among the least attractive football in European top football. Without Wenger, Arsenal would most likely have stayed in the vacuum and never become the club that it is today. Saying anything else is preposterous, really.

ECI = European Club Index
 
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Sabatasso said:
When Wenger came, Arsenal was named "Boring Arsenal" and they played among the least attractive football in European top football. Without Wenger, Arsenal would most likely have stayed in the vacuum and never become the club that it is today. Saying anything else is preposterous, really.

ECI = European Club Index
Click to expand...

That's a very strange post. "Arsenal played the least attractive football in European top football" A few days ago you said pre-Wenger Arsenal were "anonymous" in terms of European football, yet now you judging them in the context of "top European football".

You say they played the least attractive football in Europe, I think you are judging European football from the 1990s against the standards of today. The game has changed a lot since then in many ways, for instance the back-pass rule was introduced in 1992/3 prior to this teams could aimlessly pass the ball between defenders and goalkeeper and the keeper could then pick it up as and when he pleased, killing any opposition attack. You also saw man marking decline as a concept in the mid/early 1990s, prior to this teams would be set up with as many as 5-6 of the players merely there to negate the oppositions attackers, it meant games were a lot more defensive.

Also English club sides were tactically behind European clubs in the early 1990s as they hadnt played competitive continential football for 5 years. In this environment very few of the English club sides were entertaining to watch. In 1990-1 the only teams English clubs beat by more than 2 goals were Ostrava (Villa beat), Pécs, Wrexham, Legia Warsaw and Montpellier (Man Utd). In 1991-2 again you didnt have that many big English wins against quality sides, Liverpool beat a Finnish team (Lathti?) and Tirol by more than 6 goals but went out to Genoa, Spurs beat Porto 3-1 and an Austrial team 2-0 but went out to Feyenoord, Man Utd beat a greek team 2-0 after extra time and then went out to Atletico Madrid. Arsenal beat Austria Vienna 6-2, but then went out to Benfica in extra time. In 1992-3 Man Utd went out in the first round on penalties to Torpedo Moscow after 0-0 in both legs, Sheff Wed beat a Luxembourg team 10-2 but then lost 5-3 to Kaiserslauten, Liverpool beat Limassol of Cyprus 6-2 but lost by that score to Spartak Moscow, in the European Cup that year Leeds lost on away goals to Stuttgart but were given a replay after Stuttgart made an illegal substitution, Leeds won but then lost in round 2 to Rangers.

Finally in 1993-4 you begin to see English teams doing a bit better, Norwich beat Vitesse and then edged out Bayern Munich 3-2 before losing to eventual UEFA Cup winners Inter, Villa beat Bratislava and then lost to Depor, in the CL Man Utd beat Honved 5-3 but then lost to Galatasaray. Arsenal actually won the 1993-4 Cup Winners Cup, becoming the second English club to win a European trophy since the 5 year ban (Man Utd also won this in 1990-1) on the way they beat Liege, Odense, PSG, Torino and Parma. In 1994-5 Man Utd played 6, won 2 (Gothenburger, Galatasary) drew 2 and lost 2 so didnt make it out of the CL group, in the UEFA Blackburn went out in the first round (to Trelleborg and Inter), Newcastle beat Antwerp but then went out to Bilbao in round 2 as did Villa (Round 1 beat Inter on pens, R2 lost to Trabzonspor). The only English teams to make it far in Europe that season were Chelsea and Arsenal both in the Cup Winners Cup, Chelsea got to the Semis, and Arsenal lost in the final.

So you can see in the first 4-5 years since the European ban English teams generally struggled. They were all playing somewhat archaic football and generally did pretty average. In fact in some ways Arsenal were the best English performers since they made two finals and won one of them. It's very disingenuous to imply they were the worst footballing team in Europe, since their football was no different to most of the other English teams and you dont take into account the disadvantages English teams faced in the early 1990s. They certainly were not in a vacuum they were sucessful both domestically and in Europe, indeed Wenger's 8 years without a trophy is a longer gap then to the last trophy before he was in charge (you have to go back to the 80s/70s for a similar barren run). And it's pure wild speculation to say how good the club would have been without him.
 
It's silly trying to argue what would have happened if Wenger didn't come to Arsenal and what would have happened. Nobody knows and nobody will know, so it is just a fruitless exercise.

I don't think we would have been a Villa (Poor Villa :LOL: ) but it is hard to believe that we could have been more successful without Wenger in his first 8 years. The last 8 years is debatable :PP.

But we were a successful club before Wenger and hopefully we will be without him, we have everything set up to be successful again....just who can do it?!
 
How about the big match lads ?
I fancy Arsenal to win, after all they are the Wigan of the CL race...so it's time they have their major boost and what better than a win against poor Spurs. I would be happy with a draw, but i guess Spurs also need a win...
Hope Adebayor behaves himself.

Good luck and may the best team win.
 
I remember last season everyone saying we'll be 13pts. ahead, after the Arsenal match. The facts are a win means 7pts ahead or 1 pt for a lost. I praying for a good match and a good result. I don't think AVB put the wool over Wenger yet :)
 
Wenger, though, stressed his team must concentrate on delivering a performance themselves rather than worry about what Bale might do. "We don't plan for anybody. It is always the same – focus on our strengths and forget about your opponent," the manager said. "There is nobody special that you least like to face. All players have different qualities.

"What is important when you are a manager is that you are focused, that hasn't changed over the last 15 years, you always make sure your team is at its best, prepares well and focuses on playing the football that we love. What is important before a game like that is just to focus on our game and forget all the rest."
Click to expand...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/01/arsene-wenger-arsenal-gareth-bale

There's the problem right there and goes a good way to explaining 8 years without any trophies.

Such an arrogant and ignorant way to approach matches, even Barca at their best in recent seasons set up to counteract certain threats.
 
pretty damning in all honesty, I agree.

there's nothing wrong with admitting the opposition have certain threats which you need attempt to nullify before setting out how you play.
 
You two need to remember its Wenger talking. Fabregas and Nasri are going nowhere this season. Both sold that week! One left to Barcelona and had to come back lol . Bale has been invisible in most games vs Arsenal it's the least expected player to score though.
 
I can see his point.
IMO this isn't arrogant at all.
If Arsenal beat Spurs nobody talks about it.

Ferguson sacrificied a player (Jones) to neutralize Bale and Lennon made the difference...this might be an argument pro Wenger's reasoning.
 
You two need to remember its Wenger talking. Fabregas and Nasri are going nowhere this season. Both sold that week! One left to Barcelona and had to come back lol . Bale has been invisible in most games vs Arsenal it's the least expected player to score though. So ,Wenger know all about Bale threats ....don't read into things w/ Wenger he fools everyone w/ I'm buying 3 players then resign 2 and bring 1 in :P
 
He says this but you usually see a shift around of players or him choosing other players to start instead of others. Just because he says it, doesn't mean he hasn't got a plan.

But he is also right in a way, if we can play as good as we can do then we will be ok. The problem is the chances of us playing as good as we can are slim.
 
Sabatasso said:
When Wenger came, Arsenal was named "Boring Arsenal" and they played among the least attractive football in European top football. Without Wenger, Arsenal would most likely have stayed in the vacuum and never become the club that it is today. Saying anything else is preposterous, really.

ECI = European Club Index
Click to expand...

This post is very irrelevant. I thought we were talking about trophies and being successful, not about being entertaining. "Boring Arsenal" won the domestic league in 89 and 91, and the Cup Winners Cup in 94. Wenger arrived in 96.

Villa last won the domestic league for the last time in 81. Before that, their league titles were all before 1910. A traditional club it may be, but they're hardly on their way up.


Aboutreika18 said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/01/arsene-wenger-arsenal-gareth-bale

There's the problem right there and goes a good way to explaining 8 years without any trophies.

Such an arrogant and ignorant way to approach matches, even Barca at their best in recent seasons set up to counteract certain threats.
Click to expand...

This. Wenger never adjusts to opposition no matter how strong they are. Arsenal plays exactly the same way against anybody, even Barcelona, leaving our defence exposed as they do. The worse part is that it makes Arsenal predictable. This is one of my biggest criticisms of Wenger.
 
We played well up until our defenders decided not to defend like normal people.

:ROLL:

Lets hope they come out with rockets up their arses!
 
Quite an even game really, just really awful defending for the two goals.

It is actually way beyond awful defending, because there were warning signs before those two goals, where Spurs tried exactly the same things and they nearly paid off. But our defence decided to pay no attention and let the score two goals in the same way in a matter of minutes. It's just comes down to pure stupidity imo they just don't seem to learn.

It doesn't matter if we have the best players in the world in midfield and attack, if we defend like that, we are going to always lose games.

We have given ourselves a real up hill challenge to take over one of Spurs or Chelsea. We need one of them to slip up badly to get in front and I just have no sign from Arsenal we can win our next 10 games in a row, so the chances are very slim.

Looks like it will be our first season in many years without the Champs league.....unless something great happens.
 
YES !!!!
To be honest, the difference between the two teams was minimal. Not too impressed with any of both teams.
Good match by Vertonghen. Spurs should sell Adebayor, he's an idiot...on top of that he let his man go and Merteszacker scored with a litle help from Bale...
 
Vermaelen was really poor, it's starting to look increasingly like Arsene chose the wrong Belgian left-footed centreback from Ajax.

A solid holding player is really necessary now because that pourous defence is getting no cover from midfield whatsoever.
 
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