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English Premier League thread

World Class comes with age, skills, world cup performance and awards. Neither really have done much for those departments except the skills part. It's really ignorant to say players like Torres or Rooney are World Class
 
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Ret KiT said:
World Class comes with age, skills, world cup performance and awards. Neither really have done much for those departments except the skills part. It's really ignorant to say players like Torres or Rooney are World Class
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What absolute rubbish. So Giggs and Best are not World Class because they didn't play in a World Cup? :y1
 
Plan M said:
What absolute rubbish. So Giggs and Best are not World Class because they didn't play in a World Cup? :y1
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Right and you can't compare for the likes of them to Rooney or Torres can you? and I didn't say they had to fit all the departments, some comparing Rooney to Ronaldo9 which is laughable. Anyways Don is right, and i will say that Rooney has the potential to be World class but not there yet(maybe couple more years) and ofcourse if he keeps improving and playing the way he his remember players slack off in later stages.
 
If you want to define world class, you should begin to look with hindsight.
You actually can only say that a player is world class if you have perspective, if he's nearing the end of his carreer or if his carreer is over.
People over here are always saying that players who play "now" are world class...this is very dangerous...
The longer ago a player has played, the more chance that he isn't world class...apart from some mythical players: Pele, Maradonna, Cruijff, Best...(and i'm not sure if Best fits in this category, he was an icon but not only for the brilliant football he played).
IMHO opinion players like Garricha, Di Stefano, Puskas and Just Fontaine could be considered as good as Pele e.a.
Somebody laughed with me when i mentioned Just Fontaine as a better striker than Ronaldo (the fat one)...well look how many goals Fontaine scored in one World Cup...if people are talking now about French world class players they will mention Zidane and Platini and maybe even Henry but never Kopa or Fontaine...

But like i said it's all pub talk and bullshitting...
 
gomito#10 said:
when berbatov actually trys to defend someone please please come see me...
berbatov is lazy... rooney is not, HUGE difference in my opinion. especially since neither should be poaching... tevez and rooney are very similiar i agree, torres to me is one dimisional, a pure goal scorer and nothing else...
how many seasons does rooney need?
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Berba isn't lazy, he is laid back, his body language has been the same since day 1.

I don't agree about Torres being one dimensional if he was it wouldn't be him and Gerrard upfront for Liverpool. He does a lot for the team and in many ways offers an outlet because of his pace and skill.
 
To be honest, IMHO Berbatov is better than Rooney and Torres, but then again i quite like Spurs...
 
Berba is better than Rooney, comparing him and Torres is an unfair comparision.
 
gomito#10 said:
torres setting somone up, or building up play rareley happens, torres scores come spectacular goals no doubt and he is a great great player, but saying he needs one more season like this one and he is world class, is just a slap in the face of rooney who has been doing great at his role for years now.... I have no idea how you can think berbatov is a better seconday striker then rooney when the man is flat out lazy and does not defend... does not come back to help out his midfield, secondary strikers should be complete footballers..
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So Ruud wouldn't be considered word class?
 
some people can't make the difference between "World Class" to " My favorite players". Each has their own opinion and it doesn't matter, Pele has his list and i got mine we agree on most players thats what matters.
 
World Class in my books represents a player who is in the top 10-15 in their position.

Now of course this doesn't clear things up, as that would all be a matter of opinion.

Gerrard, Ferdinand and Rooney would all be in that top 10 for their position IMHO.
 
Peter Eyres said:
Gerrard, Ferdinand and Rooney would all be in that top 10 for their position IMHO.
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IM also very HO maybe Rooney, but the others definitely not...

Look i haven't seen yesterday's match against Arsenal and i have to admit that i'm impressed by the result (and disappointed that Arsenal are eliminated, although i'm not an Arsenal fan, remember that i like Spurs), but if i read how much world class players Liverpool has according to their fans, how do you explain that they have such a poor premiership season...to me maybe Torres is world class and Benitez certainly is world class, but that's it concerning Liverpool.
I think Liverpool is one of the few examples where the results are due to the manager (coach) and not the players...i can see only one similar example: Inter Milan in the 60's under Helenio Herrera (yes i have seen some of these matches).

PS: i have nothing at all against Liverpool...because this thread is evolving in a pro or contra Liverpool thread...i'm sorry...when i started this thread i did this to talk about teams outside the big four...apparently besides Steevio there are no fans of clubs outside the big four...i would have loved to discuss with fans of Reading and Wigan...
 
Hmm well if you think Torres is then you should ask Torres who he thinks the best midfielder in the world is, and that is after playing with players such as Xavi, Cesc, Iniesta, Petrov etc

I dont see you as anti Liverpool gerd, just anti English football.
 
Ferdinand, not world class? I will admit, I had my doubts about him a few years ago, and is over hyped, just like Gerrard, and Rooney, but really, he has been arguably the best defender in Europe.

And no, we don't have that many world class players. Mascherano is, and Gerrard is. Torres maybe, but it's too early to judge. We also have some very good players in Reina, Alonso (who was awful yesterday), Carragher, Hyypia, and future stars in Agger, Skrtel, Babel and Lucas. Why we have had a poor Premiership season? We are not consistent enough, and we don't have the squad to sustain a challenge over 38 games (not yet anyway, as our younger players still have to develop). Also, not helped by injuries to our best center back (any side will struggle if their best center half is injured), and our main playmaker for a majority of the season. And obviously, the yanks are cunts and haven't helped matters. And yes, we have probably overachieved in Europe, due to Benitez, which is why expectations are so high. I personally am willing to give Rafa as much time as he needs, as I believe his is a long term project, and we will eventually get there.
 
-----------James----------
Sagna--Ferdinand-Vidic-Evra
--------Masch--Fabregas----
---Bentley--Hleb---Ronaldo--
-----------Torres---------

those lot for me.
 
gerd said:
Elano, Petrov,Berbatov no Everton players (Lescott, Arteta)????
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Elana and Petrov have been hit and miss this season. Had a great start, but have faded away. I think both Lescott and Arteta would be a good shout for the center back, and center midfield positions respectively.
 
I can't beleive you guys have all put Hleb in! He started the season well but the last few months he's been very wasteful of with the ball in the final third and definitely not playing as well he could've done, much like Elano and Petrov, only it's their first season in the Premiership.

Martin Laursen and Ashley Young have both been excellent at Villa, they would deserve a look in in my opinion. Other than David James who has been outstanding, I'd go for Chris Kirkland who has been great for Wigan. He's kept 10 clean sheets which isn't bad for a team so far down the table and his performance last night against Chelsea epitomized his season. Jagielka and Lescott have been superb for Everton, Lescott's goals have come at vital times and both have played really well all season.

As much as I dislike him, Gerrard's contribution to Liverpool can't be overlooked and he would get in my team of the season.

Adebayor would be in aswell, he's faded lately but still getting goals and he spent most of the season on his own upfront with the injuries Arsenal have had.

So... my team

----------------James
Sagna - Ferdinand - Laursen - Lescott
Bentley - Fabregas - Gerrard - Ronaldo
-----------Torres - Adebayor
 
tobi said:
Berba isn't lazy, he is laid back, his body language has been the same since day 1.

I don't agree about Torres being one dimensional if he was it wouldn't be him and Gerrard upfront for Liverpool. He does a lot for the team and in many ways offers an outlet because of his pace and skill.
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does he or does he not defend?
 
Peter Eyres said:
James

Sagna----Ferdinand----Lescott----Evra

Bentley---Fabregas----Mascherano----Ronaldo

--------------Torres-----Adebayooour
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santa cruz anyone? you put him in ade's place and i think you get the same amount of goals... i would take berbatov and rooney over ade... and brad freidel would be my keeper :)
 
I would take West Ham or Manchester City's young gk's (but my favourite is Foster from Man Utd...but he hardly plays...love vander Sar too).

Ashley TYoung and jagieka deserve a mention too and Micah Richards and Richard Dunne of City..
 
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