Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

All this debate... is one of the reasons why I'm for technology aid for referees. Its reached the point where there is far too much debate in the media and by managers that I think a radical change is needed. Its been going on for years, therefore I'd like to see a special panel put in place to run a technological assistance for referees and linesman. It doesn't need to be complicated, it should involve around 2 or 3 referees that are at the game and are connected to the referee and linesman by mic and are assisting the referee. If it takes us 15 seconds to see a replay and make an almost accurate judgement, it won't take longer than 30 seconds for these assistants to aid referees.

FIFA keep rejecting Serie A's proposals and many other league's proposals to implement technology... but wasn't it used on Zidane in 2006?

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Lots of complot theories around Italian football.

FA's should have the courage to use footage of matches to take measures post factum. After one or two seasons it should be better.

after one or two season.... it will be a disaster. we already have this in italy.... it's called "prova tv" (litterally tv evidence).
it's stupid. it's extremely unfair. it doesn't work.... and it didn't solve anything.

people will always second guess gerd, coz criticizing is always easier than admitting a loss... and because it's fascinating to talk about complots...... today fans complain about some "dark man behind the curtains" who decides the destiny of the league..... good luck having them tell u WHO this mistery powerful man should be!..... and the funniest thing is that this master of puppets apparently likes to switch side.... one week he wants to help juve, the following week he wants help inter....then it's milan time....LOL!

if u would put an higher autority in charge of taking retrospective bans based on tv footages, then every time a questionable call is allowed or punished by this authority, fans of opposite sides would rispectively applaud him and label him as a corrupt.....
and if u would put an even higher authority checking on this man decisions.... then fans would second guess this higher judge.

there's just no way to get over it, as fans will always complain and second guess. retrospective bans won't persuade theese fans, and will add much more serious problems.
my personal point of view is: who cares? if u (i don't mean specifically "u"... it's generic) think some machiavellic deus ex machina is secretly ruling serie a (LOL!) just don't follow it anymore.... i mean it's stupid to keep following a league, when u think it's ruled by complots and conspiracy.... just watch something else.....
but the real truth is no one really believes theese bullshits. those same fans who scream "conspiracy" whenever a questionable call is taken against their club, they completely change their mind when, the following week their team actually wins a match because of a ref's mistake.

FIFA keep rejecting Serie A's proposals and many other league's proposals to implement technology...

thanks God they do! the day fifa will allow us to destroy the fuidity of the game by having ANOTHER ref following the match from a tv, i will probably stop watching football (and trust me, in a few months, u too would stop watching football).

and make an almost accurate judgement

that's the point stef.... there's no such thing as an "almost" accurate judgement.... a judgement is either accurate or not. period..... and that "almost" means we would still have people complaining about the calls (they would just stop blaming the ref on the pitch and start second guessing the ref in charge of the tv check)..... and meanwhile, the game, as we know it, would be completely ruined.

i really really hope this will never happen.

 

[*aLe]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

there's no such thing as an "almost" accurate judgement.... a judgement is either accurate or not

I agree a judgement can be "accurate" or "not accurate" and it's quite an aut/aut if you get what I mean.. But I still think that the "unaccuracies" more or less even themselves out by the end of the season..
You see, for example Inter often got helped by bad referee calls (Siena - Inter anyone, with that goal in which there were at least 2 people clearly offside?) but they also had to be awarded a penalty yesterday against Napoli and it's not been given..

they would just stop blaming the ref on the pitch and start second guessing the ref in charge of the tv check)

Parole sante.
Yes, that's exactly what will happen

today fans complain about some "dark man behind the curtains" who decides the destiny of the league

Indeed, being dressed in black and blue makes him appear "dark" to the eye
Scusa, non ho resistito..

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

come on guys let's be sensible... that was a dive. no arguments about that. alex shouldn't have done that and the penalty shouldn't have been given... but that's it.
as dafrenz pointed out, we can't scream conspiracy every time a top club gets away with a questionable call from the ref.... refs are humans and make mistakes, like anyone else..... and italian refs make the same mistakes spanish and english do..... yet i don't see spanish and english fans questioning the whole tournament for a wrong call.
some might say they didn't face a scandal like calciopoli.....and that's true, but jeez guys, serie a moved on..... and so should we!
none of the people involved in that scandal is still here.... lanese (former italian ref's association presindent)? burned. pairetto and bergano (those 2 corrupted bastards who used to "select" the refs for the matches)? burned. carraro (former federcalcio president)? burned. moggi and giraudo? fired and banned from the federation. the refs personally involved in the fixed matches? all burned and banned...
they're all gone. now we have a new federcalcio president (abete), a new generation of referees (who are acutally getting better and better every season), a new "referees boss", collina, who is a man whose morality is unquestionable.

serie a has changed. so let's just stop looking for "masters of puppets" everywhere and let's face the unquestionable truth: ref's mistakes are part of the game (i wouldn't say the same about diving though, and i certainly wouldn't say alessandro is not to blame).
no one is trying to push juventus to the 4th place....palermo too is a contender for the 4th place.... and palermo too was given a non existant penalty saturday against roma (there was a foul on pastore, but it was clearely outside the box)....so what? is someone trying to push palermo too?! well if that's the case i guess this master of puppets should make up his mind.... who's got to get that 4th place? palermo or juve....coz "helping" 2 contenders to get the same prize isn't really a smart call.

what's really disturbing in this situation is del piero's act though. this is his second diving in just a few weeks..... now i can understand how frustrating it must be to face such a bad period, and i also can understand a normal player would get to the point to do anything to get his team the 3 points, even diving.
but alessandro is not a normal player....... that's just not him. so i really hope alessandro will realise that and be back to his real self as soon as possible...... because it takes just a few months of bad attitude to destroy the great fair player reputation he built for himself over an entire carreer.
and i also have to say rfu is probably right. if balotelli would have done the same, he would have got much more stick than that.

long story short...
refs always make mistakes and this shouldn't really raise any eyebrows.
del piero dived, that's pretty much unquestionable. and he should be punished for that. the fact that this is not something he's used to doesn't mean he can get away with it when he dives.
and for god sake no one is trying to help juve to reach the 4th place. the truth is u guys tend to notice only the questionable calls refs make during the top clubs matches and this alters your perception....... infact i'm pretty sure most of u didn't notice that non existent penalty palermo was given sathurday.

well let me put it like this.
on one side we have delio rossi. right until last season he was considered as one of the best coaches in serie a. he did an amazing job at lazio, built a fantastic team and had it playing some very beautiful football..... and he did exactly the same at lecce, before signing for lazio. then half way through last season, something happened, and lazio couldn't deliver anymore (funnily lazio's downfall begun right when the pandev\ledesma incident broke up..... u think that's a coincidence?).
people blamed rossi for lazio's bad results (as if a good manager could all of a sudden turn into a poor manager), and rossi left the job. he signed for palermo, and voilà, the good old rossi is back. palermo is delivering and we're also playing some pretty good football..... as soon as he left lazio, rossi suddenly turned back to his previous standards......

on the other side there is ballardini. a coach who has been labelled from Sacchi as one of the most promising coaches of this new generation. he has done an outstanding job in cagliari (to be fair, half of the credit for this current nice allegri's cagliari should go to ballardini). then he moved to palermo and in 2 months he had us playing the best football i have ever seen palermo playing in my life...... if only he would have done what he did in cagliari and palermo for a more "glamourous" club (say, genoa, fiorentina or napoli) he would have been considered almost on the same standards of the likes of blanc, gasperini and prandelli right now.

this summer he moved to lazio and, just like rossi before him, all of a sudden, he becomes a "poor manager".....

honestly i'd say it's pretty obvious that lazio's problems have nothing to do with the coaching guidance. don't u think?

Even at the end of last season, when things were not going too well for Rossi in the league, he still managed to win the Coppa Italia and get Lazio back into Europe. When you look at the situation with players leaving during his time I think he was a remarkable coach. Ballardini on the other hand will maybe be known as the worst Lazio coach in recent history (since 1980s). He was good at previous roles but there was massive player discontent with him at Lazio (not just the dissidenti - Pandev, Ledesma etc) but even recent signings like Matuzalem and Lichtsteiner were saying his coaching methods were changing as often as the winds. I read somewhere he never even lived in the city, but commuted by car from way outside Rome each day. This is not a major critism of him but he should have done better I don't think he was ever in touch with the club, Lazio didnt even win 10 games in all competitions under him, and when you look at the UEFA Group (Villareal, Saltzburger, Sofia) they should have advanced in that.

I think we will be able to judge a lot from how well (or how badly) Edy Reja does. If he can steady the team and survive and stop relegation then, given he will have had the same players*, I think that will demonstrate Ballardini could have done better. As others have said, part of the trouble with being manager at Lazio is about being able to deal with a volatile president (Lotito) but this was always known to be an issue for many years, before Ballardini came in.

(* I accept that now Ledesma will, perhaps, play more of a part than under Ballardini, but the rest are essentially the same players)

With all the talk of video replays and bias in refs in Italy, I think, having studied and lived in Italy for a few months (around 10 years ago), there is a bias in a lot of life against Southern Italians, and to me you so often see the big northern teams - especially of late Juventus - getting curious decision after curious decision. It could be a random occurance that this keeps happening, but it seems so prevalent and it seems to only happen for such certain teams that one does really wonder if it's all legitimate. It's such a shame because if you watch a match like Palermo - Napoli, Fiorentina - Livorno, the Rome derby, or the derby of Genoa you will see great, honest games, but if you watch a match of Juventus vs any team south of that north west corner of Italy then it seems that there will be one farce of a decision, it's like watching the "Usual Suspects" film and knowing that Kevin Spacey did the crime.

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Well two weeks ago there was no referee at the match of my son's under 7 team. They asked if one of the coaches would be referee...and i agreed.
Honestly, this is one of the most difficult things i have ever done...i can tell you that i'm a bad referee. The point is that you compensate. Every time i had a doubt i wanted to be fair and give the advantage at the opponents of my son's team. Of course that is not fair. I remember an "incident" were the opposition's GK made a reckless challenge on my son...IMHO it should have been a yellow card at least, only i'm sure the litle guy did not do it on purpose, it was clumsyness (remember he's 6 years old). But my son was crying (he's a sissy, like his father) and at that point everybody knew that it was my son...so i decided to let it pass and did not even give a foul to his team. In the end my son's team lost the match. Their first loss this season. Until then they had maximum points with a crazy goal difference: an average of around 15-2. My son was furious with me.

What i want to say is that referees, even good ones, tend to be influencible (is this correct English). And while watching CL, Belgian football or English premiership i'm pretty sure that in the end the bigger clubs have an advantage. Maybe this is purely statistic logic: for example it is logical if a dominating team who is more in the opponents' box, has more penalties at the end of the season. But somehow i think big team players and coaches are well aware of the fact that they have a bigger influence on referees.
In the Belgian competition Anderlecht is often "lucky" because of 50/50 refereeing decisions. In the CL Anderlecht is "unlucky" in 50/50 refereeing decisions...
I don't blame the refs, i've always defended them and now even more after i have been the lousiest ref in the world. But FIFA and UEFA should somehow protect refs and their integrity (which is beyond doubt in 99,99% of the refs). How this should be done, beats me...

 

[Dominic]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

of late Juventus - getting curious decision after curious decision. It could be a random occurance that this keeps happening, but it seems so prevalent and it seems to only happen for such certain teams that one does really wonder if it's all legitimate. It's such a shame because if you watch a match like Palermo - Napoli, Fiorentina - Livorno, the Rome derby, or the derby of Genoa you will see great, honest games, but if you watch a match of Juventus vs any team south of that north west corner of Italy then it seems that there will be one farce of a decision, it's like watching the "Usual Suspects" film and knowing that Kevin Spacey did the crime.

If you tell the lie often enough and the lie is big enough..

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Like it should have been, it happened also to Lucarelli and no-one made a case out of it.

Really? As closely as I follow serie A i never heard about this. Could it have been a second yellow? In anycase, both instances are wrong. If Rooney never got a straight red for pushing the ref then why the hell is Sneijder get a red in the first half of a BIG deby match?? Just crazy. But Snijder was wrong to provoke the ref.

what's really disturbing in this situation is del piero's act though. this is his second diving in just a few weeks..... now i can understand how frustrating it must be to face such a bad period, and i also can understand a normal player would get to the point to do anything to get his team the 3 points, even diving.
but alessandro is not a normal player....... that's just not him. so i really hope alessandro will realise that and be back to his real self as soon as possible...... because it takes just a few months of bad attitude to destroy the great fair player reputation he built for himself over an entire carreer.
and i also have to say rfu is probably right. if balotelli would have done the same, he would have got much more stick than that.

Exactly. And for the record I don't blame the referees one bit, their jobs are almost as hard as ther coaches, having to deal with the likes of Totti week in, week out In this instance I didn't hold the ref responsible because he was hoodwinked, the Sneijder red card was just a very bad decision and in that instance the ref should be criticized. Funnily enough the red card ban on Sneijder was upheld

Back to Del Piero, reason he should be ashamed is because of his comments following the game, calling the decision right and just. Totti is a dick, what's Del Piero's excuse

Indeed, being dressed in black and blue makes him appear "dark" to the eye

this is why i enjoy winning against Roma so much

thanks God they do! the day fifa will allow us to destroy the fuidity of the game by having ANOTHER ref following the match from a tv, i will probably stop watching football

Right. we get enough of that in rugby and football, every 5 minutes the game is stopped to go over a decision. And as lo zio explained, everyone will just direct their anger and frustrations at the TV ref

 

[*aLe]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Really? As closely as I follow serie A i never heard about this. Could it have been a second yellow?

If I don't go wrong it was a direct red: Pellissier got fouled outside Livorno's box and Lucarelli, even without clapping his hands or doing something similar, was sent off for having complained too much.
It was minute 25, maybe earlier, so it's not likely that he got another yellow before..
And the referee showed the red card directly as you can see here (from 1:09m onwards):
YouTube - 15' GIORNATA LIVORNO-CHIEVO 0-2 SINTESI

 

[Ernestito]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

this is nothing new, lucarelli always gets punished for doing nothing. if totti defends his team, everything is fine.

 

[gigimarulla]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

juventus' training during the last month

YouTube - allenamento juventus

 

[Neoexodus]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Im not going for the "long post criteria", instead im just going to say that, if a new ref is called to the table, there will be no more discussion about football and it will eventually lose its flame. No1 will stand a game without mistakes, without errors, etc. Lets just leave football as it is, its enjoyable (as far the money's concern isn't fixed, now that's something we should chat about, not technology) and every1 is angryly happy.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Lets just leave football as it is, its enjoyable and every1 is angryly happy.

seconded

so, i assume it wasn't a very nice martedì grasso for stefano, zeem and all our milanisti friends in here...
but afterall, given the circumstances (no borriello, pato and nesta rushed back from their injuries), i guess u guys didn't really expect to have a great performance....

however, even though i couldn't watch the match, i'm told it was quite a show....so what our rossoneri friends think about yesterday?

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Well Ben, the main diferennce were the goal keepers.
Van Der Sar played a stunner and Dida was his usual clumsy self. With Dida in Man Utd goal, it would have been 4-1 at half time (and i think a good keeper could have had that freak ball from Scholes, but all in all Dida was unlucky there).
Milan were the better team in the first half, but seemed knackered in the second half.
Beckham and Huntelaar were very poor and Pato didn't impress me.
On top of that Ferguson sacrificed Ji Sung Park to cover Pirlo. Park did a very good job.
Valencia once again proved that he was an excellent buy.

All in all Milan wasn't that bad. Ronaldinho was great.

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

It was a very good match.

At one point Milan seemed far superior. At another, Man Utd looked like they would extend their lead from 3-1 if anything and like a team well above Milan in terms of overall quality. Great game. Ups and downs. Both sides show quality as well as vulnerability. Perfect for a neutral like me.

Wayne F'n Rooney was superior in the AIR over Nesta and Thiago Silva though and that's just shameful! Where was the marking for his 2 header goals? Neither one picked him up and he outjumpted/out-strengthed and out-manuevered Nesta at times. Obviously back from injury.... (Now with talk of possibly joining Italian NT again after metting with Lippi) otherwise it's a performance he might not wanna focus on too much...

Seedorf came on and Milan looked a lot better suddenly.

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

We could have really used Borriello's physical presence as you said. Well Berlusconi was right when he said we needed a player to finish games. Ronaldinho was awesome, just lacked physical strength. It is clear our left side is the weakest. Leo seems to have forgotten we have a player called Jankulovski and looks like he is 100% leaving this summer. Pato was very average, but at least Evra didn't go bumping forward all game long as he had to watch out for him.

I think I'll watch Viola tonight. From the reports I saw today, Robben seems to be on fire. Will be hard without Gamberini.

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

here we are complaining about italian refs but what happened to today against Fiorentina was atrocious. Assistant ref shouldn't be allowed to get away with that decision. And that red card on Gobbi... hmmm. Well it's all up to Inter now

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Fiorentina were robbed. They were the overall better side.

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I agree that Fiorentina were the better team and that they were robbed.
That red card can be seen as a red card. At least it was very stupid and very clumsy elbow.
And if that was a red card, then Klose should have had one too.

BUT...

Fiorentina also threw it away. Why did Fiorentina subbed both Di Natale and Jovetic for defenders and handed the doination of the match on a plate on a very shaky Bayern team who had lost one of their central defenders? Bayern were vulnerable and Fiorentina should have exploited that. I here lots of praise for Prandelli, but this evening he made a couple of serious tactical mistakes...and that in a match where his team was the better team.

Oh and Ben, that winning goal is a good example where the fourth ref could have overruled the linesman and the referee...this was so obvious that there would be not the least discussion.

 

[rfU]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Fiorentina also threw it away. Why did Fiorentina subbed both Di Natale and Jovetic for defenders and handed the doination of the match on a plate on a very shaky Bayern team who had lost one of their central defenders? Bayern were vulnerable and Fiorentina should have exploited that. I here lots of praise for Prandelli, but this evening he made a couple of serious tactical mistakes...

Di Natale is a defender. I imagine Prandelli subbed off Jovetic because a) they had the 1 away goal b) he needed to be rested. Fiore are dropping points in Serie A like Tiger Woods drops his pants. With Mutu out indefinitely, and Gilardino their only other quality forward, they will need Jovetic injury free for the 2nd leg and the remainder of the season. Oh and Fiorentina were a man down. It's useless going for the win and risk conceding 2,3,4 goals. If anything, Prandelli was spot on tactically and with substitutions made.

Oh and Ben, that winning goal is a good example where the fourth ref could have overruled the linesman and the referee...this was so obvious that there would be not the least discussion.

What would've worked today would've been an epic failure in tomorrow's game. All in all, that was a very bad decision, by any standard. AS you said it was so obvious, assistant ref must've had his eyes closed to miss that one.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I was shocked for a moment until I realised gerd meant Cesare Natali.

I thought I had missed La Viola signing Di Natale.

 

[PLF]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Lol no, Udinese wouldn't have liked that very much

Yeah Fiorentina were hard done! But you guys see who the ref was? Lol what can we expect?! Him and his linesmen are both blind!

If Gobbi was a sending off then both Klose and in 1st half MvB could've been off for that reckless two-footed challenge. But both got yellow yet as soon as Gobbi's elbow (not that bad imo worthy of a yellow no more) the crowd went crazy and weak ref got influenced.

The goal of course was offside too. I thought Bayern would win but not in this way. La Viola did better than the result suggests.

Nonetheless it's not OVER. They have the away goal and a victory in Florence which won't come easily IS still a possibility.

 

[Jumbo_]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Hahah I went straight to wikipedia to check that Di Natale was still at Udinese!

 

[Leo Bax]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

It was the same man of Chelsea-Barça, what did you expected?

Robben tonight was a devil, very good match for him. I like Fiorentina character, and I hope in next game they will win (also with a 1-0 with a Gilardino's 2m offside...)

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Same one who disallowed Toni's header against Romania at Euro 2008.

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Oops, my mistake...yes i thought it was the Udinese player. I'm terribly sorry.

But still (like every idiot would do), i maintain what i said earlier...Prandelli gave the initiative away. Fiorentina (and of course the ref) threw away a fine performance and a big opportunity.

I don't think Bayern will be that bad in the second match (and yes i want Fiorentina to go through).

 

[Zeem]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

wow that really sucked . The linesman was in perfect position and 6 yards. That is stupid.

Fiorentina played a greta defensive match. Bayern were very unorganized and Robben only did the damage.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I here lots of praise for Prandelli, but this evening he made a couple of serious tactical mistakes...and that in a match where his team was the better team..........
........Prandelli gave the initiative away.......

u're kidding right? they were never supposed to even get the initiative, let alone giving it away!
they were playing the underdog role in a champions league eight-final, against bayern munich.... in munich!
perhaps u might expect the usual fiorentina to dictate the plot of the game (and that would already be a stretch, as they 'were playing a away fixture against a much bigger club)), but certainly not the current fiorentina!

this fiorentina is NOT the same fiorentina that tore liverpool apart 2 months ago. and this bayern is NOT that joke of a team which got trashed by barca last season.
bayern has been on fire over the last 2 months. i can't even remember how many consecutives matches they won.... they're in the middle of a +13 consecutives wins streak!!!
fiorentina, on the other side, is facing one of the most serious crisis ever since prandelli took over. they haven't won a single matches since the game against bari (10th jannuary).... 6 weeks without a win.... the morale of the team was very low.

plus prandelli had some serious formation issues... if u take a look at their line up, there were so many starters missing; no comotto, no pasqual, no donadel, no santana, no gamberini.... i mean he had to line up KROLDRUP (i assume also felipe isn't in a good shape) as a cb.... the super versatile gobbi as a left back and bolatti as a central midfielder!!! (for those who don't know follow fiorentina very closely, bolatti is a newcomer they just signed this winter.... a 24 years old kid who played just 2 matches with the viola shirt and who never played a champions league match before).... and i'm not even considering zanetti's and mutu's absence, as, despite being 2 major assets, they barely played this season.

so we're talking about a team with some serious formation issues, a team who hasn't won a single match in the last 6 weeks (wich makes this the toughest period in the whole prandelli era).... a team who had to play a champions eight-final....against bayern munich.... in, munich, with a bunch of kids (jovetic and de silvestri are both under 21) and first-timers (bolatti, jovetic, de silvestri, vargas... that's their first champions league experience) .......
and despite all of this, they held on, they never gave up, and tried to come up to the best football they can display right now.
sure the result was pretty poor, but honestly, that's still much better than i expected, as (like i said) right now fiorentina is facing a very bad form period.

and even taking into account all of that.... a 2-1 loss against bayern at the allianz arena, with 1 man less (well actually it's 3 men less, as yesterday ovrebo and his lineman were wearing a bayern shirt!)..... that's an outstanding outcome! if i were a viola fan i would be absolutely proud of my coach right now.... i mean, from a pure tactical point of view, prandelli simply outclassed van gaal (i can't honestly see what tactical mistakes u might be referring to)....bolatti's diagonals helped a lot gobbi in containing robben and the choice of de silvestri was simply great! i've never seen anyone keeping ribery quiet so easily, with so much coolness and composure as de silvestri did yesterday.
yes, in the second half they had some serious troubles in trying to build some plays and they also messed up a few counters.... but given the circumstances (and their current form) i'd say they're more than justified.

so i'd say yesterday's match was a big "thumbs up" for prandelli. as rfu pointed out, once they got the away goal, it would have been extremely stupid to try harder to get the win, with one man less... especially if u consider the bad form factor, the formation issues, the referee factor, and the fact that they were playing against a top european club in its own turf.

yesterday's match is definitely a good sign for fiorentina. sure they're still far from their usual high quality football, but the determination and the heart they showed might be exactly what they need to get back on track.
once the confidence will be back, their silky football will follow.

btw guys thanks for the infos about the milan match

nesta...Now with talk of possibly joining Italian NT again after metting with Lippi

really? Wow! i didn't know about that!

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Have you seen the match Ben ?
Bayern Munich was very weak, a shadow of the team they ususally are.
Now i know that Fiorentina had some bad matches and Bayern were on a high after 12 consecutive wins. Nevertheless, a good coach should adapt to changing circumstances.
Yesterday Fiorentina were the better, Bayern had a total off-day and had just lost their defensive leader (Van Buyten, who seems to be important for them although here in Belgium we do not understand why)...they were extremely vulnerable and Fiorentina could have KO'd them...
Instead Bayern won and i never see Fiorentina win without Bayern scoring.
If yesterday's Fiorentina was a shadow of the team before new year, then that team would have been a serious contender for the CL.

But who am i, i don't even know if a player is an attacker or a defender and on top of that i like adventurous football?
On the Guardian's podcast i heard a preview about the CL matches and they were extremely negative about Italian football (boring, slow, and tactically still playing 80's football). I don't agree with that, but yesterday IMHO Fiorentina was too defensive.

I hope you guys will forgive me for continuing to discuss this.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

I hope you guys will forgive me for continuing to discuss this.

there's nothing to forgive, gerd. the whole point of the thread is discussing football matches

Yesterday Fiorentina were the better, Bayern had a total off-day and had just lost their defensive leader (Van Buyten, who seems to be important for them although here in Belgium we do not understand why)...they were extremely vulnerable and Fiorentina could have KO'd them...

i see it differently, mate. if bayern looked helpless, it was precisely because of fiorentina's setup. a more offensive attitude would have exposed the defensive line too much, and that's something u don't want when u're dealing with the likes of robben, ribery, gomez and klose.
it's not like bayern suddenly became weak. fiorentina played a role in this.
u saw a disappointing bayern and that makes u think fiorentina could have done more than that.... but the reason why bayern was disappointing was fiorentina's line up itself.... and a different approach would have changed this situation.

i mean it's pretty straight foward; u're dealing with a serious bad form period, your team hasn't played its usual football since december and u have to deal with some formation issues (the fact that they had to line up a newbie like bolatti says it all). u're missing the leader of your defensive line (aswell as many other important players) and u are about to face a top european team in its own turf.
so what could u possibly do? settle down, try to reduce the damages and try to get an away goal. mission accomplished!

u just can't expect anything more than that. and btw i don't think fiorentina had a defensive approach at all. if prandelli would have gone for a defensive setup, then he would have picked donadel over bolatti. sure they didn't go all guns blazing, but that's absolutely obvious. marchionni and vargas were asked to track back more than usual, that's for sure..... but that's also the reason why bayern didn't have many shots on goal. de silvestri didn't push as usual, but that's because he had to take care of ribery (and he did it.... amazingly).

they weren't defensive, they were organized and balanced. they contained bayern's pressure and covered the pitch perfectly.
i like fancy attacking football too.... but pretending to play fancy football against a "big gun" like bayern, at the allianz arena, with a team hitting a bad form period and with 1 man less for 60 minutes..... that would be just stupid.... and once u get the away goal, that wouldn't be just stupid anymore... it would also be useless and dangerous.

On the Guardian's podcast i heard a preview about the CL matches and they were extremely negative about Italian football (boring, slow, and tactically still playing 80's football).

i'd say that's a pretty good reason to stop following that podcast

If yesterday's Fiorentina was a shadow of the team before new year, then that team would have been a serious contender for the CL.

not really. playing high quality football doesn't necessarily mean being a top football team. palermo, parma, cagliari, sampdoria, fiorentina, genoa, they all play much more beautiful football than many european top teams..... but that obviously doesn't mean they're better than those teams
sure fiorentina's best football is much more entertaining than bayern's best football.... but in a matchup between fiorentina and bayern, bayern will still be the unquestionable favourite

 

[Milanista]

Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season

Ben, your avatar is awesome!