StayingPower
Premier League
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
I disagree, he looked fine.
I disagree, he looked fine.
Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season
- Thread starter Professor Nutmeg
- Start date
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
can't say anything interesting about roma milan as i didn't watch the match....
it must have been a pretty good one though.... i honestly thought milan would have been smashed by roma's counters... and i still have no idea how ancelotti managed to prevent roma's vertical passing game without gattuso and flamini...
however this scene was so hilarious!!!!
YouTube - Spalletti Ancelotti Scambio Panchine Roma Milan 2-2 18a Giornata Serie A Tim 11-01-09
u can clearely see spalletti asking carletto "would u rather take a seat in my place?"
what a classy way to put an end to that silly argument.
those 2 guys show how u can be a world class coach and a modest person in the same time...... and still get all the media attention u deserve.
watch and learn Josè, watch and learn......
speaking of Mourinho.... did anybody watch inter's match on sathurday???
it probably was the most ridiculous tactical line up i have ever seen (at least talking about professional football). even the commentators were speachless....
and still he was sooooo lucky..... again! this was the 4th match inter deserved to loose (and by more than 1 goal), and yet, he somehow managed to get 1 point.......that's just due to the superior class of his roster of course, and i am absolutely sure that if this man would coach an average team (i'm not saying "poor", just average) as palermo, for isntance, that team would be last in half of a season.
i just can't understand how people can rate him as a top class manager.... it just goes to show how clueless most of football fans are. it was like watching 2 dudes playing a "football manager" (i mean the videogame) match.... "my team is not winning, so let's just throw all my strikers on the pitch and see what happens then"....
even his mentor, Van Gaal would have never done such a stupid thing. i'm sure Louis was tempted to do what Jose did sathurday, at least a couple of times in his carreer..... but then he probably thought "yes but after the match the whole europe would be laughing at me"...
but the stupidest of them all just has to be moratti. He's paying this ridiculous coach 11 million euros!!!!
let's just put things in the right perspective..
ancelotti - 4,5 millions
spalletti - 2 millions
prandelli - 1,5 millions
rossi, giampaolo, gasperini and marino - 0.5 millions euros
now i don't think any reasonable man today would have any hesitations in saying that all theese coaches are just on another league compared to mourinho... there's really no comparing jose to the likes of spalletti, prandelli and ancelotti, but also rossi, gasperini, giampaolo and marino are way better than him.
but still if u put all theese coaches wages together, u still don't reach those 11 millions moratti is giving to josè....
and now the funniest part. Mancini had a 4,5 millions euros contract... half as much as mourinho gets (and that's already quite funny)...
but the thing is mancini didn't terminate his contract with inter (of course
).
so this means that mr. Moratti is now paying:
11 millions (to have mourinho coaching inter) +
4.5 millions (to have mancini doing nothing all day) +
2 million euros (mancini's staff global wages) +
4 millions (mourinho's staff global wages).
it's 21.5 millions euros per year.... and the result of this massive financial effort is a team which is way worse than last year.... a team wich plays the worst football in serie a (along with torino and bologna)....
a team wich, considering the "roster quality\depth" ratio, probably plays the less attractive football in europe today (despite its coach pretending to be "not a defesive minded, conservative coach as the italians"
).
but then i wonder.... if it's such an important thing for him to remark the difference between the italian coaches and himself, why does he seem to admire them so much?
i mean after playing against genoa, he said gasperini was one of the most brilliant managers he ever played against. it was his first match in serie a and during the post match interview he said "i changed the tactical approach of my team 4 times in 90 minutes.... and every time mr. gasperini realised what i was about to do and applied the right countermeasures".... and later he said "i have never experienced such a professional challenge in my carreer before". his own words.
then he met siena, and after the match, as soon as he grabbed a mike he said "before we start i have to publicly acknowledge the higher class of my rival today, as mr Giampaolo totally outplayed me under the tactical aspect, and completely deserved to win the game. that's what i told him as soon as the match ended and i promised him i would have admitted his superior class in front of the cameras aswell". once again, theese are his own words.
i heard something similar happened also last week with Allegri.
so what? are all the managers in serie a world class?..... or maybe it's mourinho the one who is just not good enough to be up to our standards?
i guess the 2nd option is much more like it.
can't say anything interesting about roma milan as i didn't watch the match....
it must have been a pretty good one though.... i honestly thought milan would have been smashed by roma's counters... and i still have no idea how ancelotti managed to prevent roma's vertical passing game without gattuso and flamini...
however this scene was so hilarious!!!!
YouTube - Spalletti Ancelotti Scambio Panchine Roma Milan 2-2 18a Giornata Serie A Tim 11-01-09
u can clearely see spalletti asking carletto "would u rather take a seat in my place?"
what a classy way to put an end to that silly argument.
those 2 guys show how u can be a world class coach and a modest person in the same time...... and still get all the media attention u deserve.
watch and learn Josè, watch and learn......
speaking of Mourinho.... did anybody watch inter's match on sathurday???
it probably was the most ridiculous tactical line up i have ever seen (at least talking about professional football). even the commentators were speachless....
and still he was sooooo lucky..... again! this was the 4th match inter deserved to loose (and by more than 1 goal), and yet, he somehow managed to get 1 point.......that's just due to the superior class of his roster of course, and i am absolutely sure that if this man would coach an average team (i'm not saying "poor", just average) as palermo, for isntance, that team would be last in half of a season.
i just can't understand how people can rate him as a top class manager.... it just goes to show how clueless most of football fans are. it was like watching 2 dudes playing a "football manager" (i mean the videogame) match.... "my team is not winning, so let's just throw all my strikers on the pitch and see what happens then"....
even his mentor, Van Gaal would have never done such a stupid thing. i'm sure Louis was tempted to do what Jose did sathurday, at least a couple of times in his carreer..... but then he probably thought "yes but after the match the whole europe would be laughing at me"...
but the stupidest of them all just has to be moratti. He's paying this ridiculous coach 11 million euros!!!!
let's just put things in the right perspective..
ancelotti - 4,5 millions
spalletti - 2 millions
prandelli - 1,5 millions
rossi, giampaolo, gasperini and marino - 0.5 millions euros
now i don't think any reasonable man today would have any hesitations in saying that all theese coaches are just on another league compared to mourinho... there's really no comparing jose to the likes of spalletti, prandelli and ancelotti, but also rossi, gasperini, giampaolo and marino are way better than him.
but still if u put all theese coaches wages together, u still don't reach those 11 millions moratti is giving to josè....
and now the funniest part. Mancini had a 4,5 millions euros contract... half as much as mourinho gets (and that's already quite funny)...
but the thing is mancini didn't terminate his contract with inter (of course
).so this means that mr. Moratti is now paying:
11 millions (to have mourinho coaching inter) +
4.5 millions (to have mancini doing nothing all day) +
2 million euros (mancini's staff global wages) +
4 millions (mourinho's staff global wages).
it's 21.5 millions euros per year.... and the result of this massive financial effort is a team which is way worse than last year.... a team wich plays the worst football in serie a (along with torino and bologna)....
a team wich, considering the "roster quality\depth" ratio, probably plays the less attractive football in europe today (despite its coach pretending to be "not a defesive minded, conservative coach as the italians"
).but then i wonder.... if it's such an important thing for him to remark the difference between the italian coaches and himself, why does he seem to admire them so much?
i mean after playing against genoa, he said gasperini was one of the most brilliant managers he ever played against. it was his first match in serie a and during the post match interview he said "i changed the tactical approach of my team 4 times in 90 minutes.... and every time mr. gasperini realised what i was about to do and applied the right countermeasures".... and later he said "i have never experienced such a professional challenge in my carreer before". his own words.
then he met siena, and after the match, as soon as he grabbed a mike he said "before we start i have to publicly acknowledge the higher class of my rival today, as mr Giampaolo totally outplayed me under the tactical aspect, and completely deserved to win the game. that's what i told him as soon as the match ended and i promised him i would have admitted his superior class in front of the cameras aswell". once again, theese are his own words.
i heard something similar happened also last week with Allegri.
so what? are all the managers in serie a world class?..... or maybe it's mourinho the one who is just not good enough to be up to our standards?
i guess the 2nd option is much more like it.
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gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Hello Ben...that last post is very frank...
I'm not a great tactician, but to me the Serie A is still the university of tactics...the league where the influence of tactics is the strongest and maybe that is what Mourinho was trying to say...
After reading Jonathan Wilson's book "inverting" the pyramid i've got a litle bit more tactical insight, but i'm not convinced that tactics are that important.
That book is about the great tactical coaches that brought something new or that where able to refine existing systems to perfection. Among the fist category are people like Michels, Lobanovski, Ramsey among the second is Helenio Herrera (to name only one). The book convinced me that many great teams were very succesfull without having one of these tactical geniuses as a coach: the Real Madrid of Di Stefano, Bayern Munchen under Udo Lattek, the French national team under Hidalgo and Jacquet...maybe those coaches are very good in man management...i'm not sure if tactics is everything in football. Maybe it is typical Italian to find tactics all important (and maybe Italian teams and the Scudetto would have been even more succesfull if they would have attached less importance on tactics)...i'm not sure about this, but it is maybe a good point as a start to one of those wonderfull (and inconclusive) discussions we have on this site...so please challenge me and say that i'm talking nonsense...
Hello Ben...that last post is very frank...
I'm not a great tactician, but to me the Serie A is still the university of tactics...the league where the influence of tactics is the strongest and maybe that is what Mourinho was trying to say...
After reading Jonathan Wilson's book "inverting" the pyramid i've got a litle bit more tactical insight, but i'm not convinced that tactics are that important.
That book is about the great tactical coaches that brought something new or that where able to refine existing systems to perfection. Among the fist category are people like Michels, Lobanovski, Ramsey among the second is Helenio Herrera (to name only one). The book convinced me that many great teams were very succesfull without having one of these tactical geniuses as a coach: the Real Madrid of Di Stefano, Bayern Munchen under Udo Lattek, the French national team under Hidalgo and Jacquet...maybe those coaches are very good in man management...i'm not sure if tactics is everything in football. Maybe it is typical Italian to find tactics all important (and maybe Italian teams and the Scudetto would have been even more succesfull if they would have attached less importance on tactics)...i'm not sure about this, but it is maybe a good point as a start to one of those wonderfull (and inconclusive) discussions we have on this site...so please challenge me and say that i'm talking nonsense...
Last edited:
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Mourinho IS a top manager Lio Zio IMO, He gets results and EVERY manager starts at the bottom so he has had to work his way up, His record at Chelsea at Home is just amazing, he won the CL with a pretty average Porto side. Not every manager can do that.
I do agree Mourinho plays awful football though...but if Inter win the CL and Scudetto then it shows its better to be a "lucky" manager than a good one
Mourinho IS a top manager Lio Zio IMO, He gets results and EVERY manager starts at the bottom so he has had to work his way up, His record at Chelsea at Home is just amazing, he won the CL with a pretty average Porto side. Not every manager can do that.
I do agree Mourinho plays awful football though...but if Inter win the CL and Scudetto then it shows its better to be a "lucky" manager than a good one
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
i can't. infact i do agree with u. tactics are important, but not more important than all the others factors.
bottom line is football isn't a pure strategy game: it's not like chess. it's a sport, and so the most important factor will always be the human factor: the players. the higher is the quality of the players, the slighter is the impact of tactics on the game.
the tactical aspect becomes much more important when the quality of the players is lower, and u have to find some way to decrease the quality-of-the-players factor's impact on the game.
when a team like inter faces a team like catania, for instance, Mourinho won't have to blow his mind that much, coz having the likes of samuel, chivu, maxwell, maicon, zanetti, cambiasso, ibra on his side, it won't be that hard for the nerazzurri to find their way to the opposite gk, neither to prevent the opponent's scoring chances.
Zenga instead will be forced to study inter, to find their weak spots, to realise wich set up could make the gap between the 2 teams slighter.
and we got lot of evidences. some of the greatests coaches in the world today still didn't win any trophies at all, while coaches like mourinho already got load of silverware. mancini is a good coach, but he was far from being among the best in italy.... and still he won more than spalletti or prandelli.
i guess that's already enough to prove the point that tactic won't ever be as important as the quality of the players.
afterall all the primeval tactical systems were "born" to serve this purpose: to decrease the gap between a top team and weaker sides. the man to man marking, the high pressing, the verrou, the catenaccio, the libero (i'll never call a libero "sweeper"!).
of course that's not the only point in tactics. today coaches develop a specific system to give their own imprint, their signature to their teams. every coach in serie a does it today (except mourinho) and there are also a lot of foreign examples (benitez, ferguson and wenger in england, lotina, valverde, pellegrini and irureta in spain, puel, lacombe, blanc and baup in france...).
however, having said that, a "top class" coach, who gets 11 millions euros per year just can't show such a tactical incompetence.
it doesn't matter how good u are in man management, or in motivating players or under the fitness aspect. a top class coach must have the whole package. otherwise we would have fitness trainers or motivators guiding our teams.
a coach is more than a motivator or a personal trainer, coz he is supposed to give something more to the team. mourinho just can't. because according to what he did and what he said so far, he just doesn't know the game enough to do it. that's it.
u can't say "our problem today is that we defend too deep, i want my defesive lines to operate a lot higher" (mourinho's words), because u have to take into account the players u can count on.
an high pressing defensive line strategy might work if your defenders are young, small, fast, with lots of stamina and great reflexes.
but when your defensive set up is formed by the likes of samuel and materazzi, u just can't apply this defensive strategy. Samuel is a world class defender, but u just can't ask him to play as a libero or to press high, coz he just can't... it won't work.
u have to adapt your tactical plans to the players u have to pull the best out of em.
if u persist in trying to apply your ideas to your teams just coz theese are your tactical beliefs, without adapting them to the players u can count on, then u're not a coach. that's it.
the same way if u prepare a specific strategy to face your opponent, and then that strategy results to be wrong, u don't throw 6 attackers into the game, depriving your team of any form of balance or logic.
coz if u do that, no matter if u win or not, u will eventually look like a idiot who had no idea of what to do to change the rhythm of the game.
when mourinho did all those changes during the match against cagliari sathurday, it was as if he basically said - ok, i just don't know how to nullify cagliari's gameplan, i don't know how to find a way to their keeper, neither how to prevent acquafresca to tear us apart. so let's just display a 3-2-5 formation with all our offensive players pushing ahead with no logic, no plot, no sense at all, and let's hope something will eventually happen.
this is the kind of logic u would expect from a simple fan having some fun with fifa, or pes, or fm..... definitely not what u would expect from a professional coach (who is even considered a good coach).
mancini had an amazing record at inter aswell (he holds the record for most consecutives wins in serie a, home and away matches), but he was far from being the best coach in serie a.
and it's a common mistake to consider that porto an average team.
ricardo carvalho, costinha, bosingwa, deco, maniche, alenicev, paulo ferreira, luis fabiano.. that was a very good team, with some great elements and some good elements to complete the puzzle. that team was badly underrated by every opponent and nobody knew how they used to play.
when u take into account all theese factors, jose's merits become pretty different.
besides also deschamp reached a cl final in the same year, with another very underrated team, but still i don't see many people praising him....... mainly coz, after that CL final he wasn't hired by one of the richests clubs in the planet.
judging a coach, just by looking at his achievement is very easy and it's probably also a tempting option. but it's just wrong. u also have to put into the equation the quality of the teams that a coach guided.
coz if u don't do that, then coaches like wenger, puel, prandelli, spalletti, will appear to be as good as maclaren, klopp or moyes (wich would be ridiculous)...... and coaches like mourinho or schuster or rijkaard will appear to be as good as the likes of capello, ancelotti, lippi or hiddink (wich would be even more ridiculous).
to judge a coach u have to look at what he does for the team, how good he is in exploiting is "arsenal". how he reacts to tough situations.
is he good at reading the plays? can he adapt his tactical beliefs to his team? can he react to his opponents decisions in real time?
one of inter first matches this season was against samp. after the game mourinho was complimenting mazzarri. he said that after 70 minutes of football he realised that mazzarri completely changed his plot, just to adapt his team to inter weaknesses.
this is what a good coach does.
sathurday (and many other times before aswell) mourinho wasn't able to impose his plot to the game. and he wasn't able to prevent Allegri to impose cagliari's plot to the game either.... despite the huge gap between cagliari and inter players.
now, when this happens once, twice, 3 times in a season, u can talk about a "bad day" or about a great opponent's performances.
but when it happens 10 times in half a season..... when, after the match u aren't even able to explain what u wanted to do, wich was your plan..... then it's not just a "bad day".
when spalletti was raped by ferguson, 2 seasons ago, after the match, he was able to explain what went wrong. what manchester did and what he wanted roma to do.
and the same happened a few weeks later, when ferguson was hammered by ancelotti. Sir Alex knew what he wanted to do.... he just wasn't able to do it..... it can happen.
but not being able to read the game? that's something that just can't happen to a professional coach.
so far this season, mourinho proved that every time his opponents don't play the way he expected them to play, he doesn't know what to do.
that's why (imo) mourinho is not a top class coach..... not even a good coach...... and when i think that our average are the likes of reja, allegri, ballardini, rossi and beretta, well i can hardly say he's a decent coach.
i mean, come on.... theese are his own words, not my interpretation...
i can't. infact i do agree with u. tactics are important, but not more important than all the others factors.
bottom line is football isn't a pure strategy game: it's not like chess. it's a sport, and so the most important factor will always be the human factor: the players. the higher is the quality of the players, the slighter is the impact of tactics on the game.
the tactical aspect becomes much more important when the quality of the players is lower, and u have to find some way to decrease the quality-of-the-players factor's impact on the game.
when a team like inter faces a team like catania, for instance, Mourinho won't have to blow his mind that much, coz having the likes of samuel, chivu, maxwell, maicon, zanetti, cambiasso, ibra on his side, it won't be that hard for the nerazzurri to find their way to the opposite gk, neither to prevent the opponent's scoring chances.
Zenga instead will be forced to study inter, to find their weak spots, to realise wich set up could make the gap between the 2 teams slighter.
and we got lot of evidences. some of the greatests coaches in the world today still didn't win any trophies at all, while coaches like mourinho already got load of silverware. mancini is a good coach, but he was far from being among the best in italy.... and still he won more than spalletti or prandelli.
i guess that's already enough to prove the point that tactic won't ever be as important as the quality of the players.
afterall all the primeval tactical systems were "born" to serve this purpose: to decrease the gap between a top team and weaker sides. the man to man marking, the high pressing, the verrou, the catenaccio, the libero (i'll never call a libero "sweeper"!).
of course that's not the only point in tactics. today coaches develop a specific system to give their own imprint, their signature to their teams. every coach in serie a does it today (except mourinho) and there are also a lot of foreign examples (benitez, ferguson and wenger in england, lotina, valverde, pellegrini and irureta in spain, puel, lacombe, blanc and baup in france...).
however, having said that, a "top class" coach, who gets 11 millions euros per year just can't show such a tactical incompetence.
it doesn't matter how good u are in man management, or in motivating players or under the fitness aspect. a top class coach must have the whole package. otherwise we would have fitness trainers or motivators guiding our teams.
a coach is more than a motivator or a personal trainer, coz he is supposed to give something more to the team. mourinho just can't. because according to what he did and what he said so far, he just doesn't know the game enough to do it. that's it.
u can't say "our problem today is that we defend too deep, i want my defesive lines to operate a lot higher" (mourinho's words), because u have to take into account the players u can count on.
an high pressing defensive line strategy might work if your defenders are young, small, fast, with lots of stamina and great reflexes.
but when your defensive set up is formed by the likes of samuel and materazzi, u just can't apply this defensive strategy. Samuel is a world class defender, but u just can't ask him to play as a libero or to press high, coz he just can't... it won't work.
u have to adapt your tactical plans to the players u have to pull the best out of em.
if u persist in trying to apply your ideas to your teams just coz theese are your tactical beliefs, without adapting them to the players u can count on, then u're not a coach. that's it.
the same way if u prepare a specific strategy to face your opponent, and then that strategy results to be wrong, u don't throw 6 attackers into the game, depriving your team of any form of balance or logic.
coz if u do that, no matter if u win or not, u will eventually look like a idiot who had no idea of what to do to change the rhythm of the game.
when mourinho did all those changes during the match against cagliari sathurday, it was as if he basically said - ok, i just don't know how to nullify cagliari's gameplan, i don't know how to find a way to their keeper, neither how to prevent acquafresca to tear us apart. so let's just display a 3-2-5 formation with all our offensive players pushing ahead with no logic, no plot, no sense at all, and let's hope something will eventually happen.
this is the kind of logic u would expect from a simple fan having some fun with fifa, or pes, or fm..... definitely not what u would expect from a professional coach (who is even considered a good coach).
i respect your opinion mate, but honestly can't agree with it.Younggun said:
mancini had an amazing record at inter aswell (he holds the record for most consecutives wins in serie a, home and away matches), but he was far from being the best coach in serie a.
and it's a common mistake to consider that porto an average team.
ricardo carvalho, costinha, bosingwa, deco, maniche, alenicev, paulo ferreira, luis fabiano.. that was a very good team, with some great elements and some good elements to complete the puzzle. that team was badly underrated by every opponent and nobody knew how they used to play.
when u take into account all theese factors, jose's merits become pretty different.
besides also deschamp reached a cl final in the same year, with another very underrated team, but still i don't see many people praising him....... mainly coz, after that CL final he wasn't hired by one of the richests clubs in the planet.
judging a coach, just by looking at his achievement is very easy and it's probably also a tempting option. but it's just wrong. u also have to put into the equation the quality of the teams that a coach guided.
coz if u don't do that, then coaches like wenger, puel, prandelli, spalletti, will appear to be as good as maclaren, klopp or moyes (wich would be ridiculous)...... and coaches like mourinho or schuster or rijkaard will appear to be as good as the likes of capello, ancelotti, lippi or hiddink (wich would be even more ridiculous).
to judge a coach u have to look at what he does for the team, how good he is in exploiting is "arsenal". how he reacts to tough situations.
is he good at reading the plays? can he adapt his tactical beliefs to his team? can he react to his opponents decisions in real time?
one of inter first matches this season was against samp. after the game mourinho was complimenting mazzarri. he said that after 70 minutes of football he realised that mazzarri completely changed his plot, just to adapt his team to inter weaknesses.
this is what a good coach does.
sathurday (and many other times before aswell) mourinho wasn't able to impose his plot to the game. and he wasn't able to prevent Allegri to impose cagliari's plot to the game either.... despite the huge gap between cagliari and inter players.
now, when this happens once, twice, 3 times in a season, u can talk about a "bad day" or about a great opponent's performances.
but when it happens 10 times in half a season..... when, after the match u aren't even able to explain what u wanted to do, wich was your plan..... then it's not just a "bad day".
when spalletti was raped by ferguson, 2 seasons ago, after the match, he was able to explain what went wrong. what manchester did and what he wanted roma to do.
and the same happened a few weeks later, when ferguson was hammered by ancelotti. Sir Alex knew what he wanted to do.... he just wasn't able to do it..... it can happen.
but not being able to read the game? that's something that just can't happen to a professional coach.
so far this season, mourinho proved that every time his opponents don't play the way he expected them to play, he doesn't know what to do.
that's why (imo) mourinho is not a top class coach..... not even a good coach...... and when i think that our average are the likes of reja, allegri, ballardini, rossi and beretta, well i can hardly say he's a decent coach.
i mean, come on.... theese are his own words, not my interpretation...
it's inter's defensive line he's talking about!!! how could anybody say this man even knows what he's talking about!Mourinho said:
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Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
I agree with many of your points Ben... also about Porto. Almost every player from that squad is at a big club now.
Mourinho is managing to get results, but playing very poorly. The only time I have been convinced by his Inter was against Roma... but Roma were going through their losing streak.
I agree with many of your points Ben... also about Porto. Almost every player from that squad is at a big club now.
Mourinho is managing to get results, but playing very poorly. The only time I have been convinced by his Inter was against Roma... but Roma were going through their losing streak.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
yeah, even palermo was able to score twice in roma in that period. they were so rubbish that even if they were ahead by 1, they weren't able to avoid us scoring twice and get 3 points in their own territory.....
(having said that, i also have to admit palermo this season is quite a team )
however u know what mourinho's inter feels like? to me it's like watching british football at italian pace.... ( i know, that's a scary thought).
when i'm talking about british football, i'm not talking about the top 4 of course. they're all fantastic teams with an extremely sophisticated tactical imprint.... but then again, u can hardly call those teams "british" and however, bottom line is they're just 4 clubs out of 20, wich means the 20% of the league..... wich means they do NOT represent british average football. i did realise, having a conversation with terry butcher (not the real one of course, the one on this forum) that, in order to establish the "supremacy" of premiership, most of the fans just pretend the other 16 teams don't exist and tend to consider them just as sparring partners for the big 4.
now i honestly don't agree with this logic at all, so let's take as example a real average british club. let's take aston villa or everton (and i'm trying to be kind here, coz i guess we all realise both aston villa and everton are still above the real premiership standards).
now what's boring about theese teams? i'd say what is boring is the fact that watching their matches, u just can't find any plot at all. the passing game, the scoring chances, everything seems to happen "at random". u can hardly find any kind of logic in the teams tactics (except when they just sit back and wait for the opponent, but that's not a real tactic, it's just "parking the bus in front of the box" as british guys use to say).
u just can't tell what's on the coach's mind, watching his team playing, and (and that's the saddest aspect of them all) u almost can't notice any difference in the way those 16 teams play. i mean, except for the individual quality of the players, u just can't find more than 2 small tactical differences between aston villa and everton or betweeen fulham and sunderland or between newcastle and manchester city.....
but anyway this is not that important in the EPL.
First, because the pace is just so high that after watching 3 epl matches, u can hardly notice the "randomness" of the game.
and then because EPL still has much to offer. i mean the quality of the football of that 80% of the teams is rubbish but the athletic factor is just stunning; the tempo of the game is extremely high (that's one of the reasons of the lack of quality, of the frequent passing game mistakes, of the consequent frequent losses of possession and of the consequent high ammount of scoring chances per match, but it also brings lot of excitement into the game). and since the pace is that high, it becomes also much harder to spot those mistakes and that lack of quality.
and then there's "the environment" wich is just stunning; the stadia are amazing, the seats right on the border of the pitch, the stands always completely filled of supporters, with no empty seats, the crowd itself, wich souds great from the tv (british crowds are actually pretty quiet, compared to the italian standards, but the british football broadcasters keep the crowd volume way up, so from the tv they sound as loud as the italians)...... and besides they don't have any ultras maniacs with a knife in their pocket wandering right outside their stadia (wich is quite a good point imo
).
but what happens when u take that football away from its natural context? what would happen having aston villa playing in italy?
well there's no nice "environment" to distract u from what should be the most important thing (wich is supposed to be the football played on the pitch).... and the pace is not high enough to hide the lack of logic in the gameplan, to hide the randomness, to hide the frequent tactical mistakes (neither to justify them).....so what are u left with? an enourmous, boring human pinball machine.
that's what inter looks to me right now. as u said Stef, they still manage to get results, but then again, the quality of the players still is enourmous, and of course it still makes the difference (most of the times). but there isn't any mourinho merit in that. u just have to give the credit to the players.....
and however the same players used to play so much better under mancini's tactical guide....
of course we could argue that mancini had many years to create that team, but his starting point, the inter that mancini had to deal with at the very beginning of his "era" was not as good as this one.
i would like to think that this is just a step of a bigger process, that mourinho is much more than that.... but honestly by watching his team play, it doesn't seem to me that he's trying to create something, u just can't see any sort of tactical experiments in progress.... u actually can't see anything else than 11 guys running with a ball on their foot..... and since their names are ibrahimovic, cambiasso, stankovic, maicon, maxwell, samuel, chivu.... it is damn hard for their opponents to get that ball away from their foot...
but the final result in terms of quality is just rubbish, at least when u watch it "from a bird's eye view" (as Abhishek like to say), wich is what we tend to do when we watch football matches on tv.
and finally there's another thing that makes me think this is not a step in a long path and that inter is not going to get any better than this..... and its the football incompetence showed by Jose in his interviews..... i mean he said things so blatantly, ridiculously wrong that even i realised it (and i'm not a football expert, or a a coach or a player, i'm just a man who likes to watch football matches on tv).
during the post-match interview, sathurday, the first thing mourinho said to justify that "berserkish" suicide formation he lined up, was that he wanted "to break the game" coz he couldn't see inter winning the game with that line up......
now i don't know if u watched that post match analysys, Stef, but Marcheggiani's face (sky's commentator) was just priceless.... it looked like he was thinking "omg what the hell is this man talking about! is he really that dumb??!! what am i supposed to say now?.
so he took a little pause and then came out with an "yeah, that's interesting..."
it was soo humiliating for the special one...
marcheggiani just couldn't say "what are u talking about u idiot! it was inter against cagliari!! in san siro!!! u were not supposed to break the game! cagliari was supposed to. u were supposed to control the game! and if u would have told muntari to take care of conti instead of telling your players to push continuously with no logic at all, u probably would have been able to control the game, u dumbass!
yeah, even palermo was able to score twice in roma in that period. they were so rubbish that even if they were ahead by 1, they weren't able to avoid us scoring twice and get 3 points in their own territory.....
(having said that, i also have to admit palermo this season is quite a team
)however u know what mourinho's inter feels like? to me it's like watching british football at italian pace.... (
i know, that's a scary thought).when i'm talking about british football, i'm not talking about the top 4 of course. they're all fantastic teams with an extremely sophisticated tactical imprint.... but then again, u can hardly call those teams "british" and however, bottom line is they're just 4 clubs out of 20, wich means the 20% of the league..... wich means they do NOT represent british average football. i did realise, having a conversation with terry butcher (not the real one of course, the one on this forum
) that, in order to establish the "supremacy" of premiership, most of the fans just pretend the other 16 teams don't exist and tend to consider them just as sparring partners for the big 4.now i honestly don't agree with this logic at all, so let's take as example a real average british club. let's take aston villa or everton (and i'm trying to be kind here, coz i guess we all realise both aston villa and everton are still above the real premiership standards).
now what's boring about theese teams? i'd say what is boring is the fact that watching their matches, u just can't find any plot at all. the passing game, the scoring chances, everything seems to happen "at random". u can hardly find any kind of logic in the teams tactics (except when they just sit back and wait for the opponent, but that's not a real tactic, it's just "parking the bus in front of the box" as british guys use to say).
u just can't tell what's on the coach's mind, watching his team playing, and (and that's the saddest aspect of them all) u almost can't notice any difference in the way those 16 teams play. i mean, except for the individual quality of the players, u just can't find more than 2 small tactical differences between aston villa and everton or betweeen fulham and sunderland or between newcastle and manchester city.....
but anyway this is not that important in the EPL.
First, because the pace is just so high that after watching 3 epl matches, u can hardly notice the "randomness" of the game.
and then because EPL still has much to offer. i mean the quality of the football of that 80% of the teams is rubbish but the athletic factor is just stunning; the tempo of the game is extremely high (that's one of the reasons of the lack of quality, of the frequent passing game mistakes, of the consequent frequent losses of possession and of the consequent high ammount of scoring chances per match, but it also brings lot of excitement into the game). and since the pace is that high, it becomes also much harder to spot those mistakes and that lack of quality.
and then there's "the environment" wich is just stunning; the stadia are amazing, the seats right on the border of the pitch, the stands always completely filled of supporters, with no empty seats, the crowd itself, wich souds great from the tv (british crowds are actually pretty quiet, compared to the italian standards, but the british football broadcasters keep the crowd volume way up, so from the tv they sound as loud as the italians)...... and besides they don't have any ultras maniacs with a knife in their pocket wandering right outside their stadia (wich is quite a good point imo
).but what happens when u take that football away from its natural context? what would happen having aston villa playing in italy?
well there's no nice "environment" to distract u from what should be the most important thing (wich is supposed to be the football played on the pitch).... and the pace is not high enough to hide the lack of logic in the gameplan, to hide the randomness, to hide the frequent tactical mistakes (neither to justify them).....so what are u left with? an enourmous, boring human pinball machine.
that's what inter looks to me right now. as u said Stef, they still manage to get results, but then again, the quality of the players still is enourmous, and of course it still makes the difference (most of the times). but there isn't any mourinho merit in that. u just have to give the credit to the players.....
and however the same players used to play so much better under mancini's tactical guide....
of course we could argue that mancini had many years to create that team, but his starting point, the inter that mancini had to deal with at the very beginning of his "era" was not as good as this one.
i would like to think that this is just a step of a bigger process, that mourinho is much more than that.... but honestly by watching his team play, it doesn't seem to me that he's trying to create something, u just can't see any sort of tactical experiments in progress.... u actually can't see anything else than 11 guys running with a ball on their foot..... and since their names are ibrahimovic, cambiasso, stankovic, maicon, maxwell, samuel, chivu.... it is damn hard for their opponents to get that ball away from their foot...
but the final result in terms of quality is just rubbish, at least when u watch it "from a bird's eye view" (as Abhishek like to say), wich is what we tend to do when we watch football matches on tv.
and finally there's another thing that makes me think this is not a step in a long path and that inter is not going to get any better than this..... and its the football incompetence showed by Jose in his interviews..... i mean he said things so blatantly, ridiculously wrong that even i realised it (and i'm not a football expert, or a a coach or a player, i'm just a man who likes to watch football matches on tv).
during the post-match interview, sathurday, the first thing mourinho said to justify that "berserkish" suicide formation he lined up, was that he wanted "to break the game" coz he couldn't see inter winning the game with that line up......
now i don't know if u watched that post match analysys, Stef, but Marcheggiani's face (sky's commentator) was just priceless.... it looked like he was thinking "omg what the hell is this man talking about! is he really that dumb??!! what am i supposed to say now?.
so he took a little pause and then came out with an "yeah, that's interesting..."
it was soo humiliating for the special one...
marcheggiani just couldn't say "what are u talking about u idiot! it was inter against cagliari!! in san siro!!! u were not supposed to break the game! cagliari was supposed to. u were supposed to control the game! and if u would have told muntari to take care of conti instead of telling your players to push continuously with no logic at all, u probably would have been able to control the game, u dumbass!
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Whooaa Ben, your assessment of the Premiership is rather harsh.
While i agree that most English football fans (and the media) tend to overestimate their league, i think you are a litle bit unfair to Aston Villa...if you would have talked about Bolton or even Manchester City, i would agree...but i think Aston Villa this year are playing rather good football if you consider the fact that they have a small squad and that Carew (who is an important player for them) is injured. After Carew's injury Martin O' Neill had a plan B that worked (cfr. the results)...wether that is because O' Neill is a big tactician or because of tactical ineptitude of the other teams, i'm not sure (because yes, English teams - and even the big four - tend to be tactically naïve).
But i think Villa are closing the gap with teams like Arsenal and Chelsea...
Considering your previous post i want to mention something that might "infuriate" you (and i wanted to mention that before having read your post).
Yesterday i was reading FourFourTwo (IMHO a very good Football Magazine). FourFourTwo mentioned an article by France Football about the second divisions of the five big competitions...they wondered which one of them is the best. I know this is a rather silly thing to do, but IMHO it's fun to discuss on a football forum.
France Football took in cosideration some "objective criteria" (sadly i don't know which) and confronted some "specialists (sadly i don't know who) with these criteria in order to create a ranking.
This was the result:
1. The Championship (English second division)
2. Ligue 2
3. the German "second division"
4. the Spanish "second division"
5 Serie B
The fact that Serie B is considered as the "worst" of the five second divisions amazes me. Being an avid reader and being a fan of Italian football, i've read several times that other "specialists" consider Serie B as one of the most difficult (if not the most difficult) second divisions...any thoughts on this ????
Whooaa Ben, your assessment of the Premiership is rather harsh.
While i agree that most English football fans (and the media) tend to overestimate their league, i think you are a litle bit unfair to Aston Villa...if you would have talked about Bolton or even Manchester City, i would agree...but i think Aston Villa this year are playing rather good football if you consider the fact that they have a small squad and that Carew (who is an important player for them) is injured. After Carew's injury Martin O' Neill had a plan B that worked (cfr. the results)...wether that is because O' Neill is a big tactician or because of tactical ineptitude of the other teams, i'm not sure (because yes, English teams - and even the big four - tend to be tactically naïve).
But i think Villa are closing the gap with teams like Arsenal and Chelsea...
Considering your previous post i want to mention something that might "infuriate" you (and i wanted to mention that before having read your post).
Yesterday i was reading FourFourTwo (IMHO a very good Football Magazine). FourFourTwo mentioned an article by France Football about the second divisions of the five big competitions...they wondered which one of them is the best. I know this is a rather silly thing to do, but IMHO it's fun to discuss on a football forum.
France Football took in cosideration some "objective criteria" (sadly i don't know which) and confronted some "specialists (sadly i don't know who) with these criteria in order to create a ranking.
This was the result:
1. The Championship (English second division)
2. Ligue 2
3. the German "second division"
4. the Spanish "second division"
5 Serie B
The fact that Serie B is considered as the "worst" of the five second divisions amazes me. Being an avid reader and being a fan of Italian football, i've read several times that other "specialists" consider Serie B as one of the most difficult (if not the most difficult) second divisions...any thoughts on this ????
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
but i didn't mean to sound harsh. i wasn't trying to prove the point that serie a is better than epl.....besides this isn't even my opinion, as, under many point of views (not every point of view, of course), i find the epl better than serie a.
the thing is, to give an idea of how this inter looks to me i had to talk about the average football quality of epl teams...... and that's honestly one of epl's weak spots.
but mind u, when i talk about the quality of the football, i'm not talking about the quality of the teams, about how good they are.
i do think aston villa are quite a nice team, with many good players and also a pretty decent coach (at least for the epl standards). but being a good team and playing good football are pretty different things.
inter for instance is a hell of a team... i don't think anybody would argue with that.... me neither.... i was just trying to say that thair football is awfully "flat", and with no plot at all (wich to be honest is the same issue many epl teams have).
my mighty palermo.... last season in this period of the year.... well i'm pretty sure we had more points than today.. but still the quality of our football was way worse that our current quality..... u see what i meant?
the only thing i wanted to say was how does this inter looks to me, and that's all. i didn't mean to say that the epl is poorer than serie a.
actually i couldn't care less about this kind of topics. i wouldn't get any sort of sexual excitement by thinking that serie a is better than the epl (as many fans do today in uk ), so i don't even bother about trying to understand wich is best.
if i had to talk about the average quality of british football (as i incidentally did) then i would look harsh towards epl.... but honestly the gap between serie a and epl on this matter is pretty evident...
but maybe in a few weeks we'll be talking about the champions league draw, and then, i might look harsh towards serie a, as i honestly think that every british top club is stronger than its italian counterparts (except arsenal... maybe).
things look different according to our point of views, and if we consider the strenght of the top teams, the quality of the facilities, the organization of the events, the stadia security, the stadia themselves.... under all theese points of views (and probably many others i'm forgetting to mention right now) the epl is definitely better than serie a.
but let's be honests..... who cares about wich is best? i got access to all the top leagues in europe (except ligue un, from this season
) so i just try to get the best from any of em.
as for the second divisions question, i don't follow any other 2nd division apart serie b (and i hardly follow serie b aswell) so i can't really say wich is best..... but then again, as i said above.... who cares wich is best?
there's one thing i can tell though. many serie b teams play better football than some epl clubs, so i find it hard to believe that the championship is better than serie b
but i didn't mean to sound harsh. i wasn't trying to prove the point that serie a is better than epl.....besides this isn't even my opinion, as, under many point of views (not every point of view, of course), i find the epl better than serie a.
the thing is, to give an idea of how this inter looks to me i had to talk about the average football quality of epl teams...... and that's honestly one of epl's weak spots.
but mind u, when i talk about the quality of the football, i'm not talking about the quality of the teams, about how good they are.
i do think aston villa are quite a nice team, with many good players and also a pretty decent coach (at least for the epl standards). but being a good team and playing good football are pretty different things.
inter for instance is a hell of a team... i don't think anybody would argue with that.... me neither.... i was just trying to say that thair football is awfully "flat", and with no plot at all (wich to be honest is the same issue many epl teams have).
my mighty palermo.... last season in this period of the year.... well i'm pretty sure we had more points than today.. but still the quality of our football was way worse that our current quality..... u see what i meant?
the only thing i wanted to say was how does this inter looks to me, and that's all. i didn't mean to say that the epl is poorer than serie a.
actually i couldn't care less about this kind of topics. i wouldn't get any sort of sexual excitement by thinking that serie a is better than the epl (as many fans do today in uk
), so i don't even bother about trying to understand wich is best.if i had to talk about the average quality of british football (as i incidentally did) then i would look harsh towards epl.... but honestly the gap between serie a and epl on this matter is pretty evident...
but maybe in a few weeks we'll be talking about the champions league draw, and then, i might look harsh towards serie a, as i honestly think that every british top club is stronger than its italian counterparts (except arsenal... maybe).
things look different according to our point of views, and if we consider the strenght of the top teams, the quality of the facilities, the organization of the events, the stadia security, the stadia themselves.... under all theese points of views (and probably many others i'm forgetting to mention right now) the epl is definitely better than serie a.
but let's be honests..... who cares about wich is best? i got access to all the top leagues in europe (except ligue un, from this season
) so i just try to get the best from any of em. as for the second divisions question, i don't follow any other 2nd division apart serie b (and i hardly follow serie b aswell) so i can't really say wich is best..... but then again, as i said above.... who cares wich is best?
there's one thing i can tell though. many serie b teams play better football than some epl clubs, so i find it hard to believe that the championship is better than serie b
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
If i'm not mistaken, Chelsea has to play Juventus...i think Chelsea are in danger too...the match which interest me most is Inter-Man Utd because both clubs would consider it as a huge failure if they did not progress...so this could be the most interesting match.
About Inter...the fact that they are massive underachievers since La Grande Inter is IMHO also due to Moratti JNR...look at all the coaches he sacked...look at all the players he's bought...something is wrong there... i think Inter have bought the wrong players...they have bought too many stars and not enough dedicated team players. It is not a coïncidence that their best player of the last decade never was a star...Javier Zanetti...they need more players like Zanetti and less players like Ronaldo, Figo, Ibrahimovic or Quaresma (no matter how good each and every of these players are individual).
Take for example Zlatan Ibrahimovic...he has touches of genius, but i'm not sure i would want him in my team as a coach...
If i'm not mistaken, Chelsea has to play Juventus...i think Chelsea are in danger too...the match which interest me most is Inter-Man Utd because both clubs would consider it as a huge failure if they did not progress...so this could be the most interesting match.
About Inter...the fact that they are massive underachievers since La Grande Inter is IMHO also due to Moratti JNR...look at all the coaches he sacked...look at all the players he's bought...something is wrong there... i think Inter have bought the wrong players...they have bought too many stars and not enough dedicated team players. It is not a coïncidence that their best player of the last decade never was a star...Javier Zanetti...they need more players like Zanetti and less players like Ronaldo, Figo, Ibrahimovic or Quaresma (no matter how good each and every of these players are individual).
Take for example Zlatan Ibrahimovic...he has touches of genius, but i'm not sure i would want him in my team as a coach...
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YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Ibra has been amazing this season Gerd, I would have him in my team, along with Del Piero, Ribery and Messi the world form player.
Ibra has been amazing this season Gerd, I would have him in my team, along with Del Piero, Ribery and Messi the world form player.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
I know he's been amazing, but still...he's a liability.
He's seldom good in big matches..a player with his talent should decide big matches for Inter (in the CL) and Sweden...(you will not agree with me, but i think the same is true for Christiano Ronaldo, as a matter of fact i think United will be stronger without him).
I know he's been amazing, but still...he's a liability.
He's seldom good in big matches..a player with his talent should decide big matches for Inter (in the CL) and Sweden...(you will not agree with me, but i think the same is true for Christiano Ronaldo, as a matter of fact i think United will be stronger without him).
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
I completely agree with you Gerd. Also with Juve, Zlatan failed to turn up in big games and has very poor finishing. He scores 1 in 10 chances a game and has a huge ego. He's good at having flashes of genius, but its not very consistent. He's also quite dirty.
About Milan:
Seedorf needs to start performing or I'd bench him. Jankulovski was great as left midfielder.
I really hope we get Gourcuff back, I've always loved him (almost got his top when he first signed). I'd replace Seedorf. Pato is starting to show us his true abilities and will soon be scoring more... I can see it happening. Kaladze also needs a slap, and Pirlo too imo. Pirlo is great in terms of ability, but his system doesnt work anymore with us. We need a new system where everyone is dynamic... its wasting our talent right now with everyone being static except our 3 offensive players. This is my ideal Milan:
------------Abbiati---------
Zambrotta-Silva-Nesta(Mexes) - ???
--------------------------
Gattuso--Flamini (Ambro) ---Gourcuff
--------------------------
---Kaka------------Ronaldinho (Pato)
----------Pato (Borriello)------
Out:
Seedorf
Favalli (Retire)
Maldini (Retire)
Kaladze
Emerson
Inzaghi (Retire)
Shevchenko
In:
Paloschi
Gourcuff
Mexes ()
Thiago Silva
NEW LEFT BACK
A midfielder
I completely agree with you Gerd. Also with Juve, Zlatan failed to turn up in big games and has very poor finishing. He scores 1 in 10 chances a game and has a huge ego. He's good at having flashes of genius, but its not very consistent. He's also quite dirty.
About Milan:
Seedorf needs to start performing or I'd bench him. Jankulovski was great as left midfielder.
I really hope we get Gourcuff back, I've always loved him (almost got his top when he first signed). I'd replace Seedorf. Pato is starting to show us his true abilities and will soon be scoring more... I can see it happening. Kaladze also needs a slap, and Pirlo too imo. Pirlo is great in terms of ability, but his system doesnt work anymore with us. We need a new system where everyone is dynamic... its wasting our talent right now with everyone being static except our 3 offensive players. This is my ideal Milan:
------------Abbiati---------
Zambrotta-Silva-Nesta(Mexes
) - ???--------------------------
Gattuso--Flamini (Ambro) ---Gourcuff
--------------------------
---Kaka------------Ronaldinho (Pato)
----------Pato (Borriello)------
Out:
Seedorf
Favalli (Retire)
Maldini (Retire)
Kaladze
Emerson
Inzaghi (Retire)
Shevchenko
In:
Paloschi
Gourcuff
Mexes (
)Thiago Silva
NEW LEFT BACK
A midfielder
Last edited:
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Gourcuff has said he refuses to return to Milan...(according to the French press that is...).
Gourcuff has said he refuses to return to Milan...(according to the French press that is...).
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Im not sure what to believe. After the PSG game, he said he had unfinished business with Milan, and that he will decide in March what he wants to do. Galliani said yesterday that there will be space for him at Milan.
Im not sure what to believe. After the PSG game, he said he had unfinished business with Milan, and that he will decide in March what he wants to do. Galliani said yesterday that there will be space for him at Milan.
Zeem
Wonder Boy
- 15 July 2006
- AC Milan
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Well Borriello said he never wanted to return to Milan, but Milan gave him a 1'st team spot so now he sais he is glad to be back. Gourcuff IMO will be the same situation. 100% Milan will get him back.
My ideal Milan would be benching Ronaldinho. The dude is not even running in our matches. In that case Pirlo will be needed. He is still a maestro, a great CK taker and the best at FK's.
Pato is definitely improving every year especially in terms of confidence which is very important. Still lots to do to reach his best and is already one of the greats in Serie A
Lots of talks going on negotiations on Kaka
Well I got used to the idea that he one day will be sold...
Well Borriello said he never wanted to return to Milan, but Milan gave him a 1'st team spot so now he sais he is glad to be back. Gourcuff IMO will be the same situation. 100% Milan will get him back.
My ideal Milan would be benching Ronaldinho. The dude is not even running in our matches. In that case Pirlo will be needed. He is still a maestro, a great CK taker and the best at FK's.
Pato is definitely improving every year especially in terms of confidence which is very important. Still lots to do to reach his best and is already one of the greats in Serie A
Lots of talks going on negotiations on Kaka
Well I got used to the idea that he one day will be sold...
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Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Atalanta 3-1 Inter
Genoa are incredible right now! 2 behind Milan and in the 4th CL spot. Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina and Napoli all trailing!
Atalanta 3-1 Inter
Genoa are incredible right now! 2 behind Milan and in the 4th CL spot. Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina and Napoli all trailing!
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Anyone see Julio Baptista's goal today? And last weeks? Crazy!
Anyone see Julio Baptista's goal today? And last weeks? Crazy!
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
and they're even playing without milito! afterall that's what a great coach is supposed to do: a value added to a great team.....
speaking of great coaches....... mourinho... i guess he was trying to "break the game"..... again oh dear...
josè mourinho, the coach with the logic of a 12 years old child.... my team is playing shit?... let's throw on the pitch all the attackers i have and things will get better... YEAAAHHH!
Mancini is probably laughing his head off right now.
about the ibra conversation, personally i agree with younggun, guys. ibra has been simply stunning in the last 2 years. last season he didn't do quite well from december to february, but, as we know, that was due to the knee tendon injury.
it's not like he doesn't score enough.... i mean that would be true if he were a cf.... and since he's such an universal player many people actually consider him as a cf....
the thing is he's not a cf... he still remains a supporting striker, wich means that his numbers (talking about goals) are just amazing.
that guy has the build of a great cf, the technique of great supporting striker and the pace of a winger (wich is just ridiculous if u think how tall he is).
plus he always delivers... actually inter depends on ibra's performances even more than milan on kaka's performances.
to me that guy is the most complete offensive player in europe (along with henry) since ronaldo's and van basten's days.
lil note about my mighty palermo.... we're just 3 points behind fiorentina!!! and 6 points behind a champions league spot
. not like we'll actually reach that spot, but still it's quite refreshing to see what a great reesult we got playing against samp.... in genova.... and without miccoli aswell.
edit: i'm so pissed off we didn't manage to sign floccari this summer... i knew he was something special... i fucking knew it
Atalanta 3-1 Inter
Genoa are incredible right now! 2 behind Milan and in the 4th CL spot. Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina and Napoli all trailing!
and they're even playing without milito! afterall that's what a great coach is supposed to do: a value added to a great team.....
speaking of great coaches....... mourinho... i guess he was trying to "break the game"..... again
oh dear... josè mourinho, the coach with the logic of a 12 years old child.... my team is playing shit?... let's throw on the pitch all the attackers i have and things will get better... YEAAAHHH!
Mancini is probably laughing his head off right now.
about the ibra conversation, personally i agree with younggun, guys. ibra has been simply stunning in the last 2 years. last season he didn't do quite well from december to february, but, as we know, that was due to the knee tendon injury.
it's not like he doesn't score enough.... i mean that would be true if he were a cf.... and since he's such an universal player many people actually consider him as a cf....
the thing is he's not a cf... he still remains a supporting striker, wich means that his numbers (talking about goals) are just amazing.
that guy has the build of a great cf, the technique of great supporting striker and the pace of a winger (wich is just ridiculous if u think how tall he is).
plus he always delivers... actually inter depends on ibra's performances even more than milan on kaka's performances.
to me that guy is the most complete offensive player in europe (along with henry) since ronaldo's and van basten's days.
lil note about my mighty palermo.... we're just 3 points behind fiorentina!!! and 6 points behind a champions league spot
. not like we'll actually reach that spot, but still it's quite refreshing to see what a great reesult we got playing against samp.... in genova.... and without miccoli aswell. edit: i'm so pissed off we didn't manage to sign floccari this summer... i knew he was something special... i fucking knew it
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Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
YouTube - Torino - Roma 18 gennaio 2009 - Gol J.Baptista !!!!!!
This is the goal last week, he also scored a FK that game :
YouTube - Roma Sampdoria 2-0 Gol BAPTISTA SKY Sport HD 9a Giornata 14-01-09
YouTube - Torino - Roma 18 gennaio 2009 - Gol J.Baptista !!!!!!
This is the goal last week, he also scored a FK that game :
YouTube - Roma Sampdoria 2-0 Gol BAPTISTA SKY Sport HD 9a Giornata 14-01-09
Zeem
Wonder Boy
- 15 July 2006
- AC Milan
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Magical goal by Baptista. Great Physical Attribute that guy has. Big, Strong, and Flexible. One of the few complete players.
Inter lost. Well no surprise. The matches they won were they deserved to win were very few. Plus I think they started with a very defensive formation.
Genoa are a nice team to see but they must be careful as the diffrence between them as they are 4th and the 10th team in the standing is maybe 7 pts so tough competition. Hope they can handle it and qualify for the CL which mean they have to build a much more competitive team which means better for Serie A like La Viola did.
Udinese on the other hand can't seem to win...
Magical goal by Baptista. Great Physical Attribute that guy has. Big, Strong, and Flexible. One of the few complete players.
Inter lost. Well no surprise. The matches they won were they deserved to win were very few. Plus I think they started with a very defensive formation.
Genoa are a nice team to see but they must be careful as the diffrence between them as they are 4th and the 10th team in the standing is maybe 7 pts so tough competition. Hope they can handle it and qualify for the CL which mean they have to build a much more competitive team which means better for Serie A like La Viola did.
Udinese on the other hand can't seem to win...
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
baptsta's goal was nice. great acrobatic effort.
but talking about pure skills, this goal is just stunning.
YouTube - Grande Gol di Floccari - Atalanta 3 - 1 Inter 18/1/09
talking about great goals, did anybody see jankovic's one? i still can't understand why palermo sold him
baptsta's goal was nice. great acrobatic effort.
but talking about pure skills, this goal is just stunning.
YouTube - Grande Gol di Floccari - Atalanta 3 - 1 Inter 18/1/09
talking about great goals, did anybody see jankovic's one? i still can't understand why palermo sold him
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YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Disagree with this, He may be 2nd but for me Cristiano Ronaldo wins that tag hands down.
Disagree with this, He may be 2nd but for me Cristiano Ronaldo wins that tag hands down.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
when i was talking about offensive players, i meant to say fowards
my bad.
c. ronaldo and ibra are way too different to compare them
both of em are just good beyond any imagination (aswell as messi, kaka... and also some others who aren't mentioned usually).
what makes ibra special however is that his technique, his touch are just insane for such a tall player.
when i was talking about offensive players, i meant to say fowards
my bad.c. ronaldo and ibra are way too different to compare them
both of em are just good beyond any imagination (aswell as messi, kaka... and also some others who aren't mentioned usually).
what makes ibra special however is that his technique, his touch are just insane for such a tall player.
Jumbo_
-
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Ledesma
Poor keeping by Manniger though.
Ledesma
Poor keeping by Manniger though.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
lazio supporter?
so today is the big day, concerning the kakà deal....
How do the rossoneri on this forum feel about it?
coz if i were a rossonero, i honestly wouldn't be able to say wich option is best.
it's quite a weird situation however. usually the big stars are the ones who push to be sold.... this time instead it looks like kakà really doesn't wanna leave.
i've been hearing many comments theese days about this deal: sacchi, sconcerti, buffa. they all expressed their (different) opinions and argued their own views with very good points.
there's one thing i'm really curious about anyway. is this rich arabian lad going to spend his own money on city... or will he just "show" his belongings in order to get bank loans (as most of the richests epl owners do)???
Ledesma
Poor keeping by Manniger though.
lazio supporter?
so today is the big day, concerning the kakà deal....
How do the rossoneri on this forum feel about it?
coz if i were a rossonero, i honestly wouldn't be able to say wich option is best.
it's quite a weird situation however. usually the big stars are the ones who push to be sold.... this time instead it looks like kakà really doesn't wanna leave.
i've been hearing many comments theese days about this deal: sacchi, sconcerti, buffa. they all expressed their (different) opinions and argued their own views with very good points.
there's one thing i'm really curious about anyway. is this rich arabian lad going to spend his own money on city... or will he just "show" his belongings in order to get bank loans (as most of the richests epl owners do)???
Milanista
Mangiamoli!
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
I've been refreshing Sportmediaset and Gazzetta every 2 minutes for the live stuff. We absolutely should NOT sell him. He's one of the greatest players to grace Italian football in the last 10 years imo, and one of the greatest ever players of Milan in the last 10 years together with Shevchenko and Nesta. Kaka at the moment is what keeps us alive in the top 5, he has done far too much. He's as much as a symbol as Maldini is... that says a lot. A lot of my friends that support other clubs are also against this. Kaka is more than just a great player to Milan, he is from another planet. A few days ago I actually felt as if someone I knew had died or something.
I don't care about £100m, or whatever it is, Kaka is Kaka... he can't be touched.
I've been refreshing Sportmediaset and Gazzetta every 2 minutes for the live stuff. We absolutely should NOT sell him. He's one of the greatest players to grace Italian football in the last 10 years imo, and one of the greatest ever players of Milan in the last 10 years together with Shevchenko and Nesta. Kaka at the moment is what keeps us alive in the top 5, he has done far too much. He's as much as a symbol as Maldini is... that says a lot. A lot of my friends that support other clubs are also against this. Kaka is more than just a great player to Milan, he is from another planet. A few days ago I actually felt as if someone I knew had died or something.
I don't care about £100m, or whatever it is, Kaka is Kaka... he can't be touched.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
I rate both Kaka and Messi much higher than Ronaldo and Zlatan...
Kaka and Messi are much more down to earth and it's better to have them in the team. They are unselfish team players who can decide matches on their own. Zlatan and C. Ronaldo decide matches on their own, but they are prima donna's IMHO...
Both Ronaldo and Zlatan are disappointing on big occasions (i.e. CL and national team, not in big matches in Serie A and Premiership).
But i must admit that i don't like C. Ronaldo at all (while i have nothing against Zlatan, i even like to watch him play enormously...) so maybe i'm biased....
when i was talking about offensive players, i meant to say fowards
c. ronaldo and ibra are way too different to compare them
both of em are just good beyond any imagination (aswell as messi, kaka... and also some others who aren't mentioned usually).
what makes ibra special however is that his technique, his touch are just insane for such a tall player.
I rate both Kaka and Messi much higher than Ronaldo and Zlatan...
Kaka and Messi are much more down to earth and it's better to have them in the team. They are unselfish team players who can decide matches on their own. Zlatan and C. Ronaldo decide matches on their own, but they are prima donna's IMHO...
Both Ronaldo and Zlatan are disappointing on big occasions (i.e. CL and national team, not in big matches in Serie A and Premiership).
But i must admit that i don't like C. Ronaldo at all (while i have nothing against Zlatan, i even like to watch him play enormously...) so maybe i'm biased....
Jumbo_
-
Re: Serie A Thread - 2008/2009 Season
Lo zio, I'm not a Lazio fan but I like Ledesma and despite the poor keeping it was a good freekick against a 'big' team.
I don't think Milan should sell either. I'd love to see Kaka in the premier league, but not in these circumstances. He really is a phenomenal player, if Milan offered to swap him for Ronaldo I'd do it in a second. My favourite memory of him (strangely) is where he destroyed United in the CL 2 seasons ago. He's just on another planet.
On the other hand, if Milan do 'cash in' then they can begin rebuilding their squad with some seriously good additions. They need to decide whether losing their best player is worth it if they can replace him with 4 or 5 others. Kaka is getting critised for moving only for money, but by (reportedly) accepting Man City's offer, Milan have kinda forced his hand a bit. Surely it's them that should be chastised for accepting the money not him?
Anyway, I guess we'll see what happens in the next few days.
Lo zio, I'm not a Lazio fan but I like Ledesma and despite the poor keeping it was a good freekick against a 'big' team.
I don't think Milan should sell either. I'd love to see Kaka in the premier league, but not in these circumstances. He really is a phenomenal player, if Milan offered to swap him for Ronaldo I'd do it in a second. My favourite memory of him (strangely) is where he destroyed United in the CL 2 seasons ago. He's just on another planet.
On the other hand, if Milan do 'cash in' then they can begin rebuilding their squad with some seriously good additions. They need to decide whether losing their best player is worth it if they can replace him with 4 or 5 others. Kaka is getting critised for moving only for money, but by (reportedly) accepting Man City's offer, Milan have kinda forced his hand a bit. Surely it's them that should be chastised for accepting the money not him?
Anyway, I guess we'll see what happens in the next few days.