Re: Serie A Thread - 2009/10 Season
ok, so, diving. diving is a completely different thing from insulting the referee. Leo's solution (red cards or retroactive bans) could definitely work with swearing.... actually u don't even need retroactive bans (wich is a good thing, as that would be a terrible solution), because insults are very easy to spot for the ref during the game. when u insult somebody, u want that somebody to hear u, so u just say it, out loud, and there's no room for interpretations
but when u dive, u try to make sure the ref DOESN'T notice it. u actually look for the contact and try to make your fall as credible as it can get. now that brings a very heavy consequence.
very often the ref won't be able to notice and punish the dive pronto. this means that other people will have to look at the videos after the game, analyze it and spot the divings attempts.
that would be tragic.
by allowing somebody (the national federations, FIFA, eufa, whoever) to "operate" on a match wich already ended, u open Pandora's box.
even nowadays we witness an enourmous "arguments-ratio" around football matches. there are tv programs which show replays and slow motions, with idiots spending hours analising the plays to discuss about fouls and divings.
it's silly, appalling, and it can also be dangerous as by putting the ref's mistake under the spotlight, u put a lot of pressure on the refs and a lot of "heat" on the fans.
however it's still nothing more than pointless arguments, and they can't effect the result of the match or any others people's decisions..... because there won't be any other decisions. the game is over, there's nothing left to do, so let's just argue like idiots on those things and then let's move on.
but what if the ref calls could be overturned with retrospective decisions. what kind of effect, what kind of pressure those silly shows and the pubblic opinion would have on those on charge of deciding..... what kind of pressure fans could apply by causing troubles (or just by threatening the pubblic opinion with troubles).
here u are. football matches wouldn't be lasting 90 minutes anymore... they would last for weeks... as people all around the nations and the globe would still be talking about questionable calls... but those wouldn't be just pointless words anymore, as they could have an effect on those who have to take a decision.
there's a reason why every law system in the world provides a limited number of appeal. once the supreme court (USA), or the corte di cassazione (italy) or the high court of justice (UK) takes his decision, there's no turning back; no matter what they decide, u got to accept it. and even if they take the wrong decision, u can't try any other appeals.
and u know why? because justice is not the only interest in game. stability is another important interest, that u have to balance with justice.
u can't let situations pending for too much time, coz this can effect other situations, and coz this may have a dangerous impact on pubblic opinion.
and that's exactly the reason why retroactive bans are ALWAYS a disgraceful decision.
besides diving attempts aren't as easy to spot as insults to the ref, as i said earlier. and we got proves of this every week on tv shows. 5, 6, 10 so called "experts" can't reach an agreeement on a single play "
that was a foul! - no way that was a clear diving! - u're wrong i tell ya, u're not looking at it from the right angle!"
so what gives u the idea that fifa people or uefa people or FA people or whoever can take an
unquestionable decision we will all agree with??
i've been watching that foul on grosso in the italia-australia game (world cup 2006) for years now, and i still can't make up my mind.... i look at it from an angle and it seems a blatant dive... then i look at it from a reverse angle camera, and it looks a foul...
so what shall we do in theese cases? and mind u, that play was the key to italy's victory, so, by questioning the foul, you're also questioning the result (there's no other way to say that)... wich means that a wrong call can make all the difference in the world.
actually let's try to use this situation as an example. italy and france; the world cup finalists. france reached the final thanks to henry's dive against portugal. that's pretty evident. so applying this policy henry should have been banned (and france victory should have been questioned too).
what about italy then? there was a very questionable key moment in italy's path too (grosso's penalty against australia).
assuming we would ban henry (as there's no doubts that was a dive) what should we do with grosso???
coz if u don't do the same to grosso and that was a dive, then u're causing a big discrimination here, wich might well have an effect on the whole tournament.
but if u do ban him, and that turns out to be a real foul, then u're discriminating italy.
and it's not just that. if fifa would consider both of them diving attempts, then both the players should be banned..... but just the players... the results wouldn't be questioned at all....
so what kind of message would fifa send us? italy and france reached the final thanks to referee's mistakes.... they shouldn't be there.... we banned the players but didn't touch the result.
but if what grosso and henry did was unfair and "officially labelled as wrong" by fifa.... how can the result be fair? how can we punish the players and let the teams get away with the consequence of those unfair acts?
retroactive decisions over matches which are already finished can bring potentially disastrous consequences on the competitions themselves.
this is NOT a solution.
diving is a social issue; a cultural issue. and as any other social issue, we can't fight it with repression, but with education. we have to make diving socially unacceptable.. it's not as easy as banning players, but it's the only good solution.
so, long story short, not only eduardo's ban was a ridiculous mistake..... but the original purpose that moved fifa itself was ridiculously wrong.... as u don't eradicate divings by banning players once the match is over.
criscito's situation instead is different. insults to the refs are extremely easy to spot for the ref. there's no need to take retroactive decisions, and there's no chance of discrimiation as the ref can easily identify each and every insult... and he definitely can't mistake an insult for something else
that thing we did last season with zalayeta, iliev and adriano, leo, that shows very clearely how stupid this idea is..., 3 bans in an entire season.... u think they were the only players who dived last season? u think we won't see any divings this season, just because of those bans? no way.
have the fans booeing their own players every time the dive.... THAT'll teach em! much better than a ban.
actually u're right gigi. i didn't consider that, and after reading your post, mourinho's decision perfectly makes sense. 
they could've easily scored at least two. It's interesting watching Ibra with Barca, he's surrounded by bigger stars that when he doesn't get the pass he wants when he wants, he doesn't complain or act annoyed 
Regarding Super Mario, if Mourinho were to start him, where and how would he play him? He's better coming off the bench and we don't want to risk burn-out, he's still only 19 and he will get plenty of opportunities once Eto'o leaves in January and in the coming years (Milito doesn't have long left, he's already 30). Problem with Santon he's only good when sticks to the left back position and doesn't forage forward to join the attack. IMO he can't both attack and defend in equal measure quite yet, but then it depends on who we're playing. If it were Barca, and he was assigned to Messi then Oh Lord... it would be a long 90 minutes, especially with Muntari playing so awful. 
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