PC Gaming

paulv2k4 said:
You are slightly missing my point. I am a software dev by day, gamer by night. So yes, my PC does lots more than be a gaming PC. The 32gb of RAM and hard drives are actually for my software dev more than gaming.

If you put the grand total of my PC together right now, its around 1k. My PS5 cost £450. Total to 1500 for argument sakes. Thats still less than 1 expensive graphics card without all the other parts.


That's not entirely true for recent times. Consoles run for years, the PS4 lasted (and still going for some games) for 7/8 years. And my PS5 will run for another 5-7 years. So my grand total of £900 is easily going to last 14 years over needing to buy a new 1k to 2k graphics card seemingly ever 3-5 years. I think in that time I have replaced my graphics card 3, maybe 4 times. That just my graphics card! :D

I am by no way a console loving guy but you cannot suggest that consoles are more expensive than a PC, no matter how you spin it. It was on par back in the day (20 years ago) but these days. Consoles are almost always the best way to game, unless you are obsessed with modding like I am. I also prefer First Person Shooters and group games (Discord & Parsec ftw!) on PC, where as I prefer the console for story driven or family games.
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No, I get your point. Im just saying I dont entirely agree the performance will be better on consoles. The ps4 played games great but its still limited by hardware no matter what optimizations they have. Like i said i love to play on console, its so easy and straight forward.

I didnt say consoles are more expensive than PCs but also you dont need a 2000$ pc to game. I do think consoles are a great cheap entry into gaming. And even though I agree that $900 will get you gaming for years, can't you also do that with a pc? You dont "need" to replace a 1500$ gpu every year.

I agree with most you said, especially the bang for buck consoles offer, just maybe not the performance difference, that's all.
Price vs performance, yes definitely, we agree there
 
Placebo said:
Well the new system is officially ordered:

View attachment 188604

Over to the Nvidia/Intel dark side we go :)
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Last minute cooler change as it turns out the Thermaltake AIO might not come with the LGA1700 bracket and it's another 40 EUR for the bracket!

So went with this one instead:

Cooler.jpg

It may already come with an LGA1700 bracket so if it does I'll just return the other one for a refund, joys of Amazon Prime :)
 
As an older guy who prioritises gameplay over graphics, my concern isn't the prices (which are ridiculously high) but the lack of very good games. This is why I got a decent gaming laptop at around £1300 which doesn't have any problems playing everything on highest settings (even MSFS2020). I have already decided to stay away from the new consoles. Gamepass Ultimate, PC indies, some Sony "exclusives" here and there and a "budget" gaming laptop are more than enough nowadays I believe.
Also good sports videogames are rare. We only have right now The Show, NBA2k23 and probably PGA2k23 which I haven't tried but I trust Chris Davies opinion on this.
That said, my advice is to be wise how you decide to spend your money. Don't be fooled by the bells and whistles of new products.
 
I don't know really where to start TBH.
Nvidia is not going downhill, every generation they produce the best graphics card.
I see Nvidia as a kind of a elitist product and generally give terrible bang per buck, as like Intel years ago could charge what they like as they had a far superior product - Nvidia is the same now, AMD can match the 3080/4080 but they can't get close enough to the 3090/4090 so Nvidia own this space so can charge what they like.

As for console vs PC they both serve their purpose like a Hyundai and a Ferrari.
I own a PC and a PS5 and game pretty much exclusively on PC when games are multi-platform, but I am a silly person and have a PC worth about 4K.

For the money consoles simply can't be beaten, they offer a cheap easily accessible access to gaming with a very simple select game and play.
They simple allow you to play games at 30FPS which has been specifically configured for that piece of hardware.
PC on the other hand has loads of different variables which can cause multiple issues and over the years Nvidia have made it much simpler to game on PC with the GeForce experience which automatically sets the best settings for your GFX card to the play the required game at the chosen resolution @60FPS.

I don't get the comments though on PS5 gives better performance than PC..
What as in smoother?
I notice way more stutters on my PS5 than I have ever noticed on PC, and in certain games the PC version just feels so smooth compared to the very restrictive 30FPS of console.
Consoles have improved though over the previous couple of generations as I remember the PS3 being a dog for performance and frame drops.
 
marthchyld said:
IMO, it would be a much fairer comparison if you added the prices of other parts such as CPU, M/B, SSD, RAM, Power Supply and etc... to the 4090 side, for without them a 4090 itself can't do anything, whereas PS5 can do, @bsmaff
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Exactly!
The price for the card alone is insane. Add the rest of the components and tell me the fps per euro ratio! 😊
not my cup of tea…

What I found, with racing on PC for nearly 2 years now, ultra settings mostly get lost in the action. I don’t see much difference… this might be different with other games.
when I was a friend of super good graphics (and I still am to a degree) a smooth experience is what I prefer these days. And then it comes down to what that smooth experience is worth to me…!

I’m moving more than 11mio pixel atm and I’m happy to have all my sims running at a minimum of 100fps stable. 120-140 in AMS2 and AC.
 
Yes you can do an FPS total of each card same game and yes a PC is ridiculous.
But PS5 and 4090 are designed for completely different markets.

Personally myself, since I have always gamed on PC, I find it difficult to take a step down to PS5 - Not really graphically, but the FPS difference is just a killer for me - Once you play games at 100FPS it is really hard to go down to 30FPS.
+ Most of the games, I play would be a much poorer experience without mods.

Using Plagues Tale Requiem.
A PS5 costs - £16 a frame
A 4090 costs - £22.13 a frame - this is based on a PC running a 4090 and an additional £1000 on other components.

But not everyone who games on PC owns a high end card.
The 4090 is an extreme product for those who want the absolute ultimate gaming experience.
 
I am on the fence to get this pre built PC for a bit less than 2000 euros (black friday offer) and I am wandering if someone with PC knowledge could give me some input on that particular build and wheter it would actually worth it:
https://store.acer.com/fr-ch/predator-orion-5000-pc-gamer-po5-640-noir

Before seeing this offer, I was thinking to build myself my next PC, but I have no experience other than replacing the PSU and the grapic card of my current pavillon desktop.
I have selected some components I would like to put in it from a reliable website where I live. It would cost me a bit less than 1500 chf/euros without the GPU (RTX3060ti) and the PSU (corsair RM650X) that I would at first transfer in that imaginray build before upgrading both later.

1669421088122.png

The main draw back I see from the Acer predator is the cooling from the cpu, which apprently isn't good enough (but that could be upgraded easily), the CPU of 12th generation with different sockets than the last generation. I would sell my current GPU and probably get 350+ out of it considering I bought it in April.

Could someone guide me please?
 
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Im
papinho81 said:
I am on the fence to get this pre built PC for a bit less than 2000 euros (black friday offer) and I am wandering if someone with PC knowledge could give me some input on that particular build and wheter it would actually worth it:
https://store.acer.com/fr-ch/predator-orion-5000-pc-gamer-po5-640-noir
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I'm on the same boat as you. I got a prebuilt before as I can barely put 2 legos together. Its been good but what you need to make sure it doesn't have proprietary parts. That way its easier to upgrade one by one if you feel more comfortable like that. At the end if the day, even though im tempted by the prebuilt less hassle, I would build from scratch. Check YouTube videos and prepare an afternoon for it. It would be cheaper in the long run
 
el niche said:
Im


I'm on the same boat as you. I got a prebuilt before as I can barely put 2 legos together. Its been good but what you need to make sure it doesn't have proprietary parts. That way its easier to upgrade one by one if you feel more comfortable like that. At the end if the day, even though im tempted by the prebuilt less hassle, I would build from scratch. Check YouTube videos and prepare an afternoon for it. It would be cheaper in the long run
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Thanks for you answer mate, I appreciate. I think I will follow your advices. I did a virtual build with similar components to this Orion 5000 pre-build and I am reaching a similar price for probably more future proof and trustable components. So I will put my hands in it and this way, I will be the only person to blame if something goes wrong :).
 
bsmaff said:
I don't get the comments though on PS5 gives better performance than PC..
What as in smoother?
I notice way more stutters on my PS5 than I have ever noticed on PC, and in certain games the PC version just feels so smooth compared to the very restrictive 30FPS of console.
Consoles have improved though over the previous couple of generations as I remember the PS3 being a dog for performance and frame drops.
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Isn't the answer obvious? Ps5 and Series X gives smoother performance-graphical quality ratio for the money. You simply can't get a pc that can perform as good as the given consoles at that same price. This is what I believe people have been saying.

There's also the shader compilation stutter issue that has been plaguing several PC games for a while now. Some are getting fixed, others are simply left untouched.
 
Sami 1999 said:
Isn't the answer obvious? Ps5 and Series X gives smoother performance-graphical quality ratio for the money. You simply can't get a pc that can perform as good as the given consoles at that same price. This is what I believe people have been saying.

There's also the shader compilation stutter issue that has been plaguing several PC games for a while now. Some are getting fixed, others are simply left untouched.
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He stated he felt consoles gave a smoother gameplay experience, never mentioned for the money.
He never clarified what he meant.

Yes you can’t build a PC for the price of a PS5, and give the same performance.
But you also can’t do 90% of the stuff you can do on a PC on a PS5.

But everyone is to their own and have their opinions, and me personally I don’t like gaming at 30FPS.
It feels like you’re playing a game in slow motion, when you go from 100FPS down to 30FPS.
Some games it doesn’t matter as much, but driving games, FPS games just look feel sluggish when playing at that level.
Which is why is it good that this generation developers have started with some games to have a performance mode to hit 60FPS.

But as I said before a gaming PC is an elite level for people who want the absolute best gaming experience and willing to pay for it.

Consoles serve their purpose of giving a good gaming experience at a affordable price.
 
bsmaff said:
He stated he felt consoles gave a smoother gameplay experience, never mentioned for the money.
He never clarified what he meant.

Yes you can’t build a PC for the price of a PS5, and give the same performance.
But you also can’t do 90% of the stuff you can do on a PC on a PS5.

But everyone is to their own and have their opinions, and me personally I don’t like gaming at 30FPS.
It feels like you’re playing a game in slow motion, when you go from 100FPS down to 30FPS.
Some games it doesn’t matter as much, but driving games, FPS games just look feel sluggish when playing at that level.
Which is why is it good that this generation developers have started with some games to have a performance mode to hit 60FPS.

But as I said before a gaming PC is an elite level for people who want the absolute best gaming experience and willing to pay for it.

Consoles serve their purpose of giving a good gaming experience at a affordable price.
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I don't like 30 FPS either. But given how expensive pcs are, I've just decided to stick with my old pc and lock my games to 30 fps at 720p instead. There's nothing to do anymore.

"gaming PC is an elite level"
High end gaming wasn't that expensive just few years ago. I had my whole 980 ti rig for just 1500$ which was like miles ahead of ps4 and xbox one and now a GPU here costs almost the same as my whole pc. As for 40xx series, they seem to cost more than my pc.

There is nothing to do since prices will never go down to those gtx 9xx and r9 2xx days. Currently, in my location, for 1500$, the best I can squeeze in is a ps5 equivalent setup, so I haven't bothered to upgrade anymore.
 
bsmaff said:
He stated he felt consoles gave a smoother gameplay experience, never mentioned for the money.
He never clarified what he meant.

Yes you can’t build a PC for the price of a PS5, and give the same performance.
But you also can’t do 90% of the stuff you can do on a PC on a PS5.

But everyone is to their own and have their opinions, and me personally I don’t like gaming at 30FPS.
It feels like you’re playing a game in slow motion, when you go from 100FPS down to 30FPS.
Some games it doesn’t matter as much, but driving games, FPS games just look feel sluggish when playing at that level.
Which is why is it good that this generation developers have started with some games to have a performance mode to hit 60FPS.

But as I said before a gaming PC is an elite level for people who want the absolute best gaming experience and willing to pay for it.

Consoles serve their purpose of giving a good gaming experience at an affordable price.
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The Sim racing genre made me feel and value the difference between those 60 and 30 FPS games and the 100 or 110+ FPS I’m running now.
The ability to do more complex physics calculation plus the enhanced graphics (speed and look) and hardware/software (modding) possibilities made me move from console to PC. But it’s a niche corner and I know that.

Consoles deliver a great gaming experience, imo. They are versatile, easier on the money and most importantly: mass market user friendly and comfy to operate.

It really is down to what you wanna get out of it. Some prefer to go to the cinema, some have huge dvd collections they watch in a 42 inch. 🤷‍♂️😊
 
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I didn't bother replying as I felt it would just wind up the issue further. Haha.

I know where this argument will go. Only thing I'd say is read up on FPS comparisons and why consoles handle lower frame rate better. If I limit my PC to run at 30fps and play AC: Valhalla and then play the same game on my PS5, I guarantee, it feels 100 times better on the PS5.

I am part of the PC master race. But I always suggest to anyone looking at a paying £2k for a new PC versus a £450 console, buy the console unless there is a specific PC game you want or modding!. 🤷‍♂️

My two pence. Paulo out! 😊

P.S. Hope you enjoy your new stuff @Placebo , love putting a new PC together! 🤓
 
Reason 30 fps looks shit on pc is not because of mouse or screen distance or anything of that sorts. It's all because of frame pacing.

There are some ways to mitigate these issues on pc but there isn't one single solution to all games. Some methods work better on some games and so on.


Capping the framerate to 30 with RTSS is not going to make things look smoothest even if the frametime graph shows a straight line. You need to force half refresh rate vsync from your GPU drivers (nvidia has this option, idk about amd). Preferably 1/2 vsync at 60Hz, but you can try 1/4 vsync at120Hz but there's more chance of microstutters with that. If you want to reduce the input lag, then setting prerendered frames to 1+ adding RTSS 30 fps cap can help, but make sure to use Nvidia inspector to change 1/2 vsync from adaptive to standard, otherwise there will be screen tearing.

Some games provide half vsync option but might not work as well as GPU driver half vsync modes. Half vsync methods will definitely increase input lag just like it does on consoles.


Another way to have decently frame paced 30 fps is by using 1/2 scanline sync from RTSS [or latency sync if you are using Special K]. This method also gives the least possible input lag [other than vsync off]]. Only problem is, it will require extra GPU performance compared to just 1/2 vsync.

30 FPS was just an example here, you can do this with any framerate that's an integer of your refresh rate. I've locked games to 40 fps at 80hz too.


Gsync and freesync should be able to get rid of framepacing related stutters without requiring any of these methods (but LFC might introduce microstutters, I can't confirm that since I haven't tested it).
 
Sami 1999 said:
Reason 30 fps looks shit on pc is not because of mouse or screen distance or anything of that sorts. It's all because of frame pacing.

There are some ways to mitigate these issues on pc but there isn't one single solution to all games. Some methods work better on some games and so on.


Capping the framerate to 30 with RTSS is not going to make things look smoothest even if the frametime graph shows a straight line. You need to force half refresh rate vsync from your GPU drivers (nvidia has this option, idk about amd). Preferably 1/2 vsync at 60Hz, but you can try 1/4 vsync at120Hz but there's more chance of microstutters with that. If you want to reduce the input lag, then setting prerendered frames to 1+ adding RTSS 30 fps cap can help, but make sure to use Nvidia inspector to change 1/2 vsync from adaptive to standard, otherwise there will be screen tearing.

Some games provide half vsync option but might not work as well as GPU driver half vsync modes. Half vsync methods will definitely increase input lag just like it does on consoles.


Another way to have decently frame paced 30 fps is by using 1/2 scanline sync from RTSS [or latency sync if you are using Special K]. This method also gives the least possible input lag [other than vsync off]]. Only problem is, it will require extra GPU performance compared to just 1/2 vsync.

30 FPS was just an example here, you can do this with any framerate that's an integer of your refresh rate. I've locked games to 40 fps at 80hz too.


Gsync and freesync should be able to get rid of framepacing related stutters without requiring any of these methods (but LFC might introduce microstutters, I can't confirm that since I haven't tested it).
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Im so happy you wrote the last sentence! 😂
👍
 
esk said:
Will be getting a 4090 palit, is it better to power limit it to reduce energy and heat?
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Quite a few people do it and there is plenty of guides online on how to reduce the power usage without it massively effecting performance.

However, I don't power limit mine and the 4090 is probably the coolest card I have ever owned - It rarely goes above 60c and runs an awful lot cooler than my 3080 ever did.
It idles around 30c and mainly sits around the 40-50c mark whilst gaming.
 
Motherboard has finally been shipped so I can do my build next week finger's crossed!

Is it far fetched to be hopeful I can do the new build without a fresh Windows 11 install? Just had to do one recently because it messed up and I really don't want to have to do it again from scratch!
 
bsmaff said:
Quite a few people do it and there is plenty of guides online on how to reduce the power usage without it massively effecting performance.

However, I don't power limit mine and the 4090 is probably the coolest card I have ever owned - It rarely goes above 60c and runs an awful lot cooler than my 3080 ever did.
It idles around 30c and mainly sits around the 40-50c mark whilst gaming.
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Wich 4090
you got?
 
Placebo said:
Motherboard has finally been shipped so I can do my build next week finger's crossed!

Is it far fetched to be hopeful I can do the new build without a fresh Windows 11 install? Just had to do one recently because it messed up and I really don't want to have to do it again from scratch!
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I’m staying with Win10 for now.
what does bring Win11 for gamers anyway??
 
PRO_TOO said:
I’m staying with Win10 for now.
what does bring Win11 for gamers anyway??
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Windows 11 doesn't bring anything new to gamers.
It brings a much better looking OS and a lot of new security measures which are mainly only important in the corporate world.

Since using Windows 11, I could never go back to the ugly Windows 10.
 
bsmaff said:
I have the Zotac 4090 Trinity.
When they were released this is the only one I could get at MSRP.

Edit - Just noticed it actually says in my signature which card I have.
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Oh well didnt see it my bad :D
Thanks, i will try to just power limit it then, many pepole are undervolting it , but i will just play around with the powerlimit
 
esk said:
Oh well didnt see it my bad :D
Thanks, i will try to just power limit it then, many pepole are undervolting it , but i will just play around with the powerlimit
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People undervolt it.
Apparently you can run it quite under volted and you only lose a few FPS.

You will love the card though, it is an absolute beast how powerful it is.
Just the price is ridiculous at £1700
 
bsmaff said:
People undervolt it.
Apparently you can run it quite under volted and you only lose a few FPS.

You will love the card though, it is an absolute beast how powerful it is.
Just the price is ridiculous at £1700
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yeah thats what i want, less energy spend from thr card, more quiet and less hot for just 3-4% less fps, sounds really good.
Yeah cant wait for it
 
el niche said:
Im


I'm on the same boat as you. I got a prebuilt before as I can barely put 2 legos together. Its been good but what you need to make sure it doesn't have proprietary parts. That way its easier to upgrade one by one if you feel more comfortable like that. At the end if the day, even though im tempted by the prebuilt less hassle, I would build from scratch. Check YouTube videos and prepare an afternoon for it. It would be cheaper in the long run
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I just wanted to say thank you for giving me the push to go for a self made build.
Following that video I have been successful without any trouble:


I have spent quite some more than the price of that pre built PC I was showing, but I have now an incredible PC that should be on par with 4k gaming for the years to come and that is fully upgradable. The price increase mostly come from my decision to go for a lot of ssd memory (1T M2, 2x 2T M2, 2T 2.5) because I hate having to delete a game to be able to add a new one. I also broke the bank to go for a RTX4080 (MSI GeForce RTX 4080 16GB GAMING X TRIO) that was for a couple of days at its MSRP here in Switzerland. I know this card doesn't have good reputation because of its high price for performance ratio for a new generation card, but compared to the 3090, it worth the extra 50 bucks (the 3090ti is even a bit more expensive).

Intel Core i7-13700K (LGA 1700, 3.40 GHz, 16 -Core)
MSI GeForce RTX 4080 16GB GAMING X TRIO (16 Go)
Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX (LGA 1700, Intel Z790, ATX)
Corsair Vengeance (2 x 16GB, 5600 MHz, RAM DDR5, DIMM)
Kingston FURY Renegade (1000 Go, M.2 2280)
Kingston FURY Renegade (2000 Go, M.2 2280)
Crucial P5 Plus (2000 Go, M.2 2280)
Samsung 870 QVO (2000 Go, 2.5")
be quiet! Pure Base 500DX (Mini ITX, mATX, ATX)
be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 (162.80 mm)
Be quiet! Straight Power 11 Platinum - 1000W
 
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